Isaac (Golden Sun) in SSBB thread

[Rubydragon]

For a second, HollabackRyu's avatar made me think he was someone else. Good thing that didn't happen...

 

[HollabackRyu]

How does this even matter? It doesn't even apply to any of the characters in Melee or Brawl. Mewtwo made it in Melee even though he wasn't currently relevant. Marth made it in even though he wasn't currently relevant. Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, Ness, Jigglypuff, Adult Link, Adult Zelda, and Sheik were also not currently relevant by Melee's release. Besides, Melee was nearly finished by the time Golden Sun released. I wouldn't expect them to include a brand new character from a brand new series as a playable character. That would be ridiculous. Pit, Trainer and his Pokemon, or everything Super-inspired from Metroid aren't currently relevant, but they are in Brawl. I don't think Diddy has played a prominent role in any recent game, either. Mario with the FLUDD is outdated. Your argument has no foundation.

Unlike Mr Game and Watch, Ice Climbers and Pit, Isaac isn't a retro character, Ness was in Melee because he couldn't be replaced with Lucas at the time due to Earthbound 64's cancellation, Link is a major Nintendo character, so is Zelda and the Zelda series had had a major game the year before, now Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Sheik, Diddy and Fludd are far from being their leads in their own games so that's a terrible example.

That's like saying NiGHTs won't get a sequel because they would've done it years ago. Besides, what does it matter that they didn't say it years ago? They said very recently that they do want to make a new Golden Sun game and that Nintendo also wants them to make a new Golden Sun game. From this, it's very likely that they will make a sequel to Golden Sun. They finished the story arc with The Lost Age, so it's not unreasonable that Camelot would want to take a break from the series. Besides, if you played The Lost Age, you would realize that his importance to the story still overshadowed Felix. Besides, we'd get either Isaac or Felix anyway.

So? NiGHTS won't be in Brawl, Golden Sun is at this point a game with a cult following... not enough status to actually get a rep in Brawl, so you're not proving anyone wrong.

 

[Rubydragon]

O RLY? Well then mister, show me a character you would like to see in Brawl. This'll be good, I wonder if you'll even do it. In fact, if you're brave enough, you'll give us your whole character wish-list, and we'll see you having one or two of these 'cult' characters in there.

And by the way, thank you Sakurai for finally telling us Isaac won't make it in, though I may not be the happiest person in the world at the moment, that is a whole lot out of my mind.

 

[HollabackRyu]

O RLY? Well then mister, show me a character you would like to see in Brawl. This'll be good, I wonder if you'll even do it. In fact, if you're brave enough, you'll give us your whole character wish-list, and we'll see you having one or two of these 'cult' characters in there.

And by the way, thank you Sakurai for finally telling us Isaac won't make it in, though I may not be the happiest person in the world at the moment, that is a whole lot out of my mind.

Don't be ******** at least try to argue my points before giving such a stupid comeback.

 

[Rubydragon]

I know... I'm sorry if I'm typing a little late... I didn't sleep well last night... Though I'd still like to see the characters you think are more deserving than Isaac.

 

[SmashChu]

Is stupid to think Isaac will be in Brawl, he should've appeared in Melee, when his game was still being hyped, he's not even the star of The Lost Age and if they were planning a sequel to Golden Sun, they would've talked about it years ago so please stop your wishful thinking, he is AT at best.

Golden Sun came out DURING Melees development. Hold the press guys, Golden Sun did well, we must add it. The development needs time to create this. It wasn't big till after it came out, while Melee was far in development. To make a course, trophies, music, and the character it's self would take a lot of time. Time they didn't have. Plus, he hasn't been suggested till recently. Till this Smash. Now he can enter. It's dumb to say that he shouldn't be in this one, because you feel he should have been in Melee, as impossible as that was.

 

[Arteen]

Unlike Mr Game and Watch, Ice Climbers and Pit, Isaac isn't a retro character,

So Isaac is too new to get in (not retro), but too old to get in (games are a few years old)? Does Sakurai care only series that started in certain year ranges? That seems rather arbitrary.

Link is a major Nintendo character, so is Zelda and the Zelda series had had a major game the year before,

That game was Majora's Mask. If Nintendo wanted the most relevant version of the characters, Young Link would have been featured more prominently in Melee than Adult Link, and Young Zelda would be the appropriate counterpart. Obviously, being the most recent game does not necessarily mean that it will be prominently featured in SSB.

now Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Sheik, Diddy and Fludd are far from being their leads in their own games so that's a terrible example.

Okay, so less important characters that aren't currently relevant can get in if the series is already represented, but not the lead character of a critically-acclaimed series? What sort of rules are you using to decide who is in and who is out?

So? NiGHTS won't be in Brawl, Golden Sun is at this point a game with a cult following... not enough status to actually get a rep in Brawl,

"So?" So sometimes sequels don't come out immediately. Just because there isn't a Golden Sun 3 in development doesn't mean that there will never be a Golden Sun 3. Not that it matters. The Golden Sun series is a pair of critically and internationally acclaimed RPG games, and reviewers have stated "this game could arguably be one of the best 2D-based Japanese RPGs created for any system. And yes, that includes Final Fantasy." And both Nintendo and Camelot want a sequel. Obviously, this series is popular, well-received, and important to Nintendo. How is this not worthy of a spot in Brawl?

Anyways, Captain Olimar is also in the same position as Isaac. Would you say that he's not getting in, either?

 

[Rubydragon]

I noticed your signature, man, I haven't been on that site for YEARS! I used to love going there. Wow, now I have to re-read all of those Comix over again...

 

[Zevox]

Is stupid to think Isaac will be in Brawl, he should've appeared in Melee, when his game was still being hyped

Are you an idiot? He couldn't possibly have been considered for Melee. His game didn't come out until very close to Melee's release, and with Melee being as rushed as it was there was no way they could predict it would be worth including him. As-is they had to rebuild the game from the ground up in under a year, and had to make 6 characters clones just to get the roster they wound up with. With everything that was going on, including a character from a completely new series that might well be a total failure was hardly something they would have considered.

he's not even the star of The Lost Age and if they were planning a sequel to Golden Sun, they would've talked about it years ago

Funny, because we have gotten word from developers at Camelot that Nintendo and they both want to make a third game, and simply haven't gotten time to do it yet. And so what if Felix was the star of Lost Age? Isaac remained a major character in it, and is still the series' first and most popular star, and based on the ending of Lost Age he'd play a big role in any sequel (

Spoiler

since hes the one who has the Mars Star, in which the Wise One sealed a portion of the Golden Sun's power

), so hes the clear-cut choice for an SSB rep.

Unlike Mr Game and Watch, Ice Climbers and Pit, Isaac isn't a retro character,

Please, thats completely irrelevant. The simple fact that retro characters are being included in the game should make it obvious enough that the age of the game is irrelevant. Theres no "in-between" state where characters who haven't had a game in a few years yet are not retro are somehow made ineligible for the game.

The only thing Golden Sun has against its inclusion in Brawl is it not being as prominent as most of the franchises included in it (and even then its arguably comparable to Mother, and certainly above any of the retro franchises). Yet we know Sakurai is aware of it and interested in it via his "poll" (aka the number of times he mentioned characters in his journal), which has Isaac mentioned twice (the same number of times as Lucas) and Felix mentioned once, and it was #5 in requests for stages and music in his journal (above it were Fire Emblem, Star Fox, Mother, and Advance Wars, in that order). Obviously, Golden Sun is by no means too obscure for Sakurai to know about it and have an interest in it, which means its not too obscure for it to get a character in Brawl. It might not in spite of this, true, but might is not the same as will.

Zevox

 

[Cos.]

Now, it would be most deplorable if this thread was inked and blotted by a too heated debate... even though it was the breeding ground for some nice and well thought comments (well, some might not have been, but that's besides the point).
As a single comment on the the debate: This is a thread on wishful thinking first of all... and wishful thinking is a part of many cultures... so calling it stupid is... well quite a profound (and especially psychologically unbased) critisism to society (and therefore topic of another thread)... among certain points. The rest seems discussed.

Anyhow, I thought I'd try and work on this thread again (well, since, possibly sadly for some of you (which is in a way sad for me), it is still I who from time to time (seldomly) updates the first page of this thread).

Well, if Isaac is too be included in SSBB, his moveset would have already been finished in concept, but still we can try and think one last time what it would include.

So on the moveset: Conceptionally I would imagine his B moves to be some earth based attacks from his standard only earth Djinn class. (everything from Ragnarok over eternal phoenix to retreat and the such). His A attacks should include some Djinn like attacks (those were mostly coupled with sword (axe) slashes anyway), but mostly psyenergy (here more than standard earth could be added...) like attacks (since in my opinion are the things that make Isaac look so nice and flashy ... next to the fact that he is, all in all, an adept...

I'm sure everyone imagines one of his summons as a final smash, where Judgement and Eclipse are my personal favorites...

There were some nice ideas for taunts around page 29... but something that has to do with a Djinn or maybe a "useless" field psyenergy like douse or maybe that bashful head movement Isaac always did so well when spoken to (anyway, with taunts... Isaac seems to be a shy person to me)

And this is more my own personal opinion, but I think Isaac's grabs would best be done with the psyenergy hand (like from pound, or move, or carry). Finally with grabs, I'd still find it cool if to start the grab, Isaac would shoot out the vines used in growth, but that's not essential.


Anyway, the stage editor could be helpful in making Golden Sun like stages, should none appear, which would be a little loss.


On a final note, if Golden Sun music is to be included, (which I surely hope, especially, with the GS composer working along with the music ) what would your favorite melodies be?
Some of my choices: Overworld theme, The Golden Sun Rises, Jenna's Battletheme, Kolima Forest, Sol Sanctum, Prox, Lemuria, Garoh and Vale (yeah there a few). And to end the melodies the victory music work very well as Isaac's Brawl victory music.

 

[AlbelNox]

And this is more my own personal opinion, but I think Isaac's grabs would best be done with the psyenergy hand (like from pound, or move, or carry).

Wow, that would be pretty awesome xD I'd love to see that.

On a final note, if Golden Sun music is to be included, (which I surely hope, especially, with the GS composer working along with the music ) what would your favorite melodies be?

I think the one that should be included without a doubt would be Venus Lighthouse one, I love it~

 

[Rubydragon]

I agree. The Venus Lighthouse song would be awesome.

 

[AlbelNox]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/bhfabs

Just picture a Brawl stage with that music. Epic.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Hopefully he makes the cut ^_^ I Really am rooting for him O:.

 

[Rubydragon]

For some reason, I can picture that song with a chorus and being sung in Latin. >_<

 

[AlbelNox]

For some reason, I can picture that song with a chorus and being sung in Latin. >_<

Curiously, today, when I went shopping, I thought the same xD it would be amazing.

With having so many latin lyrics, Smash Bros Brawl is sure making me have a lot of work. I've proposed myself to translate all the lyrics, but first I would have to find them... xDu

 

[Rubydragon]

Good luck with that, and here's hoping the song gets in, with or without the Latin.

 

[Arteen]

I would prefer the song without Latin, since there's no reason to add it, and I think it would make the music feel more cheesy than epic.

 

[AlbelNox]

I would prefer the song without Latin, since there's no reason to add it, and I think it would make the music feel more cheesy than epic.

Don't know, but anyway, the song's so great it's gonna sound awesome either way.

 

[Rubydragon]

^^ You mean sort of like the Fire Emblem one?

I think that song would've been better without the Latin, like it was in melee.

I could really care less, I'd just like to see at least one Golden Sun item in this game. Either music, a stage, an item, assist trophy, or even a full playable character (hoping!), I'd just love this game to have at least one Golden Sun item.

 

[AlbelNox]

Well, GS certainly deserves a playable character, it would be terribly unfair that there was noone. As I see it, I think Isaac deserves a spot more than, let's say, Pit or Ice Climbers.

 

[EPX2]

There's no way HollabackRyu is serious. No one can be truly that ignorant.

 

[Rubydragon]

You're right, especially since he seems to want Pikmin in, who is another character with a 'cult' following him around.

Pit and IC's are, however, retro. Think of Brawl like a museum, where characters that have died years ago (retro) fight characters that are still alive (like Mario and Link). Now another variable is added to the equation - third party characters.

As must as I hate IC's and G&W, they are a unique part of Smash, and bring a lot of Nostalgia. I'm sure at least one more retro character will be added for that sole reason.

Though we do both agree a Golden Sun character should be in this.

 

[AlbelNox]

You're right, especially since he seems to want Pikmin in, who is another character with a 'cult' following him around.

Pit and IC's are, however, retro. Think of Brawl like a museum, where characters that have died years ago (retro) fight characters that are still alive (like Mario and Link). Now another variable is added to the equation - third party characters.

As must as I hate IC's and G&W, they are a unique part of Smash, and bring a lot of Nostalgia. I'm sure at least one more retro character will be added for that sole reason.

Though we do both agree a Golden Sun character should be in this.

Yeah, I agree with you, too. I know that retro characters are important; that's why I didn't complaint about Mr Game & Watch, he's just a classic. But, man, if they do really want to put a classic, why not some characters from Y's, or Lufia? (maybe those are 3rd parties, I don't realy know). Anyway, what's unquestionable true is that Golden Sun deserves a spot as much as any other character, or even more.

 

[Rubydragon]

I hated Pit before he was in Brawl, now I want to main him (If Isaac doesn't make it in, of course, which hopefully won't happen).

 

[EPX2]

You're right, especially since he seems to want Pikmin in, who is another character with a 'cult' following him around.

Pit and IC's are, however, retro. Think of Brawl like a museum, where characters that have died years ago (retro) fight characters that are still alive (like Mario and Link). Now another variable is added to the equation - third party characters.

As must as I hate IC's and G&W, they are a unique part of Smash, and bring a lot of Nostalgia. I'm sure at least one more retro character will be added for that sole reason.

Though we do both agree a Golden Sun character should be in this.

What's funny is that Pikmin seems to fall into the exact same category of things that "disqualify" Golden Sun from having a playable. There hasn't been a Pikmin game in several years, there wasn't a Pikmin rep in Melee, it's most certainly not a retro game, etc.

... yeah, the sheer idiocy of his claims is just way too great for me to take him seriously. He *must* be joking.

 

[AlbelNox]

I hated Pit before he was in Brawl, now I want to main him (If Isaac doesn't make it in, of course, which hopefully won't happen).

Well, I don't know if I'm just too resentful, or something, but I think I hate Pit. For being there instead of Isaac. Yeah, kinda lame, but I think GS deserves a spot much more than Kid Icarus does, and it just doesn't feel right.

 

[Rubydragon]

I agree, but remember, Pit is still retro. I doubt he'd be the reason Isaac doesn't make it. It would most likley be a more deserving newer character (like Olimar - my worst nightmare). I think more retro characters would have been added anyway.

Actually, I think it has been stated somewhere that there will be a Pikmin 3 or the Wii.

 

[EPX2]

Umm... I *really* doubt that when Sakurai was drawing up the list of playable characters he wanted included in Brawl, he was like, "Well, I want Pit, but that means I have to exclude Isaac - a character from a completely unrelated franchise - for absolutely no reason at all." I mean, it's not like the two characters even fill the same niche (retro character vs. somewhat obscure character).

 

[Rubydragon]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said.

And, Isaac for Brawl n' stuff...

 

[AlbelNox]

Well, yeah, you're right. I think it's just my fanatism for Isaac that makes me be resentful without a reason u_u you know, he's the only character I'm really lookig forward to see in the game, and I'm not very sure about him making it, so I just get paranoid for nothing.

 

[Rubydragon]

Awww, where'd your optimism go?

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst, that's what I do. If Isaac doesn't make it in, then I will be severely dissapointed, but at least I'll have Pit and Ike to main.

 

[EPX2]

Well, it's understandable that you might be a bit worried that he may not make it into the game. After all, GS is hardly one of Nintendo's big franchises - hell, it's not even had a console game yet. But it's a bit ridiculous to assume that if he didn't make it into the game, it's because of (insert random character)'s inclusion. I mean, it'd be a lot more reasonable if you were arguing that Isaac didn't make it because Felix made it into the game (assuming for a second that Felix does make it, which is highly unlikely if Isaac doesn't), but Pit is just some random character who has no connection whatsoever to Isaac.

But yeah, as Ruby said, have some faith. I'm certain that GS will get *some* representation in Brawl - just not exactly about what kind of representation (playable character, items, ATs, etc.)

 

[AlbelNox]

Well, it's understandable that you might be a bit worried that he may not make it into the game. After all, GS is hardly one of Nintendo's big franchises - hell, it's not even had a console game yet. But it's a bit ridiculous to assume that if he didn't make it into the game, it's because of (insert random character)'s inclusion. I mean, it'd be a lot more reasonable if you were arguing that Isaac didn't make it because Felix made it into the game (assuming for a second that Felix does make it, which is highly unlikely if Isaac doesn't), but Pit is just some random character who has no connection whatsoever to Isaac.

Yeah, I know it's kind of irrational. Just let hope Sakurai thinks GS is as important a franchise as to make a character out of it.

Awww, where'd your optimism go?

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst, that's what I do. If Isaac doesn't make it in, then I will be severely dissapointed, but at least I'll have Pit and Ike to main.

I constantly think of Isaac being playable, but at the same time think it's not that likely he'll made it. So I just try to rely on the characters that have been actually confirmed, being, for now, Zelda and Ike my mains. I'll be seriously dissapointed if Isaac doesn't make it... And kinda sad.

 

[Rubydragon]

He should if Isaac got two votes on his poll and Felix one. Not to mention Golden Sun music is the 5th most requested.

 

[Bassoonist]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/bhfabs

Just picture a Brawl stage with that music. Epic.

Indeed. That song has to make it in. Along with Isaac.

 

[AlbelNox]

Yeah, he should... Plus, Golden Sun has been one of the best-sold RPG's ever...

Could you picture something as perfect as Isaac fighting in a Venus Lighthouse stage?

 

[Rubydragon]

There he is! Welcome back, haven't seen you in a couple of pages.

I actually kind of can... And with that music too!

 

[AlbelNox]

Just one curious question... If Isaac finally was to be revealed, how would he look in the picture of the character confirmation? That's something I've been asking myself for a while.

 

[Rubydragon]

I'll show you a picture I found:



Like that, I guess.