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Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

Your Hero

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I've always been a strong proponent for leaving Isaac's B moves as djinn attacks, giving him a generic recovery move under the guise of a djinn. Leave combat psynergy (earthquake, spire, gaia) for his charged A attacks and his utility psynergy (hand, basic psynergy) for his grabs and tilts.
 

POKEMANSPIKA

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I've always been a strong proponent for leaving Isaac's B moves as djinn attacks, giving him a generic recovery move under the guise of a djinn. Leave combat psynergy (earthquake, spire, gaia) for his charged A attacks and his utility psynergy (hand, basic psynergy) for his grabs and tilts.
Am I the only one who sees a problem here.
 
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Moydow

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I've always been a strong proponent for leaving Isaac's B moves as djinn attacks, giving him a generic recovery move under the guise of a djinn. Leave combat psynergy (earthquake, spire, gaia) for his charged A attacks and his utility psynergy (hand, basic psynergy) for his grabs and tilts.
I had something like this in the moveset I came up with months ago (some of these were just rough ideas, you can tell I got lazy with stuff like down-B):

I had a quick go at coming up with a moveset for Isaac that makes use of all the elements of the game's battle system - standard attacks, psynergy, Djinn, and even summons.

Jab: A simple sword attack, like Marth's jab.

Dash: Isaac jumps and attacks the opponent (like his standard attack in the games).

F-smash: Skull Splitter - Isaac slams his sword at the opponent with brutal force.
U-smash: Gaia - The ground splits open, and large rocks launch upwards.
D-smash: Rockfall - The ground splits open around Isaac, and rocks fall into the opening.

F-tilt: Punji - Isaac strikes at the enemy with a bamboo weapon.
U-tilt: Thorn - Quickly launches a small shoot of thorns upwards.
D-tilt: Quake - Causes a light, short earthquake just in front of Isaac.

(I got stuck on aerials. Isaac is a Venus adept, there's not much for him to do in the air, unless he borrows some Jupiter psynergy. I imagine they'd mostly be sword attacks similar to Marth's.)

Grab: Catch - Grabs the opponent and pulls them towards Isaac. The hand remains to hold the opponent until they break out.
Pummel: Isaac swings his sword at the opponent being held by the Catch hand.
Throws: The hand tosses the opponent in the chosen direction.

B: Flint (Venus) - Flint empowers Isaac's sword, allowing him to launch a strong attack. Hold B to charge.
Side-B: Sleet (Mercury) - Sleet appears and blasts ice at the opponent. If it strikes, has a small chance to reduce the victim's damage/launching power.
Up-B: Gust (Jupiter) - Isaac jumps up, and Gust strikes at the opponent with one or two blasts of Jupiter energy. (or should it shoot downwards, like Robin's?)
Down-B: Reflux (Mars) - Counters an attack.

His B moves are all Djinn. Like Djinn in the game, they boost Isaac's stats while they're set, and using them allows you to perform a powerful attack, at the cost of slightly weakening Isaac's normal attacks. When an attack has been used, press its button again to reset the Djinni (after a cooldown of about 20-30 seconds). The exception is Gust, which automatically resets if Isaac is struck while off-stage and in special fall (this is so his recovery doesn't reach Little Mac levels of gimpability).

If you unset all four Djinn, however, you become able to summon either Zagan (B) or Megaera (side B). Being such strong attacks, however, they have high start-up and ending lag, and you leave yourself open to being launched before the attack actually comes out (and since you have all your Djinn unset, you're going to go far). If you successfully get the summon out, all four Djinn go into a cooldown of 30 seconds, after which they automatically reset, one-by-one (about a second or two between each).

Final Smash: Judgement
 
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Lord-Zero

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There's no need for a "generic recovery move" when you have LOTS of Psynergy attacks to choose from and convert those to recovery moves.
 

hwrdjacob

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Does anyone here has a good idea for Isaac's recovery?
i literally cannot come up with something good.
He can use growth, which is a bunch of vines he is required to learn as a field move at certain points in the game, as a tether recovery a la rope snake and clawshot. When used on the ground, it could shoot a giant thorny pillar up in front of him like an uppercut
 

Chapter Serf

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As long as Isaac has an air game and a good recovery (eg: Not Little Mac) I'd be happy.
 

Dhragen

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He can use growth, which is a bunch of vines he is required to learn as a field move at certain points in the game, as a tether recovery a la rope snake and clawshot. When used on the ground, it could shoot a giant thorny pillar up in front of him like an uppercut
Remmember that pretty much all the up special tethers of brawl got remplaced by more regular specials (Olimar and Zero Suit Samus, not counting Zairs or Side specials), so i doubt he could have a tether up special
 
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Lord-Zero

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I always thought of a variation of the Psynergy attack Planet Diver could work. Name? Planet Riser. Hmm...that reminded me of Sol Blade's unleash: Megiddo. He DOES jump high when he uses it. That could work too or have him hold on to Flint as they jump and smack someone if they're in range.
 
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Capita

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Does anyone here has a good idea for Isaac's recovery?
i literally cannot come up with something good.
Easy. He can use retreat/teleport or hover. I always thought of growth as a potential tether grab, even though I'd rather have a regular grab.
 
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candyissweet

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I personally like spire as a meteor smash. Maybe a daair like Megaman's hard knuckle.

I think you guys are going to like the new Smashified header & profile pic.
https://twitter.com/smashified
gosh darn it I guess it really is Isaac. Congrats to those who have been waiting for it anyway, I'll probably be the guy who's gonna criticize it since this is the probably the most anime-like character they're doing.

This also means some of their previous hints were fake. T_T
 
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Your Hero

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There's no need for a "generic recovery move" when you have LOTS of Psynergy attacks to choose from and convert those to recovery moves.
When I say generic I simply mean something like Ike's or Marth's, just guising it as a djinn attack. Normally I'd agree about psynergy but Isaac really doesn't have any legitimate psynergy inspired recovery moves aside from growth and retreat, which I both think are absolutely awful ideas. I'd rather stick to djinn as the B-moves and turn it into a gimmick with setting djinn and modifying his final smash (summon) based on how many djinn attacks he's done in a given period of time, then using psynergy for his A attacks. Not to mention it's a lot easier for Sakurai to program those attacks if he can use another character's moves, the same way Shulk's recovery is based off of Marth's.
 
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Sidboylol

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Golden Sun was a good rpg game. Therefore since that Isaac is not a assist trophy or a mii costume. I think Isaac deserve to be in. He is my second fighter ballot. I support him too.
 

JohnnySparkxs

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For Isaac's recovery, I would like to be Retreat (where he turns into colorful balls and it can be controlled, like Greninja's up b, but slower). Another altenative that I saw on reddit could be Quake. When Isaac casts Quake on the Ground, a small portion of land appears below him and if it hits, the target will be briefly stunned and then Isaac will perform a upward slash as the ground propels him upwards. When used in the air, Isaac will quickly materialize a portion of land and he will perform a upward slash as he jumps. The portion of land will be send down and if it hits, the opponent will be spiked.
 

Swamp Sensei

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I was browsing around the SmashBoards forums when I saw the Rayman thread had just gotten a post and was on the top.

That Ubisoft garbage made my blood boil... So I had no choice:

FighterIsaac4Smash4
No stop.

Rayman fans have every right to support their character as much as we do.

Insulting them like that for doing nothing wrong is how we get people to hate Isaac.

No more of that out of you.

And that goes for everyone here.
 
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FalKoopa

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Anyone has seen Black Mage's recovery from SSF2? He summons a ring which you can move around, and when you released the button he teleports there. Of course, there's a time limit and Black Mage keeps descending at a slow pace during the move.

I was thinking of something similar. The range could be reduced for balance.

:231:
 

PWN3

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I've always felt like Planet Diver could make for a good recovery option for Isaac, sort of behaving like Dedede's recovery. It's probably not the most fitting or faithful representation for what Isaac mostly does, but limiting him purely to Venus Psynergy or Djinn isn't worth it if it gets in the way of a fun moveset and playstyle. After all, I'm sure lots of us would love to Move incorporated into his arsenal somehow, and that's a Mars ability!

Another option is, of course, Retreat. Personally I wouldn't want to see it as his recovery, because there's already a lot of teleport recoveries in the game, but it's definitely likely and would be fitting for the character.
 

Liverpool19

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Finally there is confirmation of Isaac being Smashified. I'm just tired of all trolling. I swear Omni is slowly turning into Sakurai.
 

Staarih

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Yeh, it's definitely Isaac, finally. Can't wait!

Also, finally began Dark Dawn today. Not much progress because I'm super busy but I'll slowly get into it...
 

Chapter Serf

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No stop.

Rayman fans have every right to support their character as much as we do.

Insulting them like that for doing nothing wrong is how we get people to hate Isaac.

No more of that out of you.

And that goes for everyone here.
I fixed it.
 
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PUK

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To me isaac playstyle in GS is defined by the effect of the state of his djinns. His moveset should reflect that, for exemple by having a special (or two) that use djinn, allowing then isaac to use invocation (just keep venus if you think ramses and other OP GS crap are too much) but weakening his psynergie (which can easily be put as his smashes and some specials) and his standard attack.
Personally i would keep vine as a grab, and i think Move as a move is OP. A moving wallbox would make horizontal recovery unusable, like go recover with bowser or DK when something block the path. FLUDD is already OP and need charging time.
I like the idea of somehow controlling the stage but let's remind counter sapling pls.
 

Spootondorf

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Does anyone here has a good idea for Isaac's recovery?
i literally cannot come up with something good.
Megiddo (rises high into the air and attacks at the apex)
Teleport (boring)
Sand (a slight stretch, but it can be blown by a sudden burst of wind onto the stage, and damage anyone in its path)
Lift
Carry
Grip (grabs an opponent or the ledge and throws Isaac toward it, attack-ready)
Spire (he would hop from spire to spire with the classic Golden Sun hopping sound and animation)
Growth (z-air tether)
Lash (he throws his sword at the stage and uses the Lash technique to tie a rope to the hilt and propel himself toward it)

My choices are Megiddo (up-special), Spire (another special or a down-air), Grip (side-special), and Lash (unsure which attack). Megiddo has Isaac rise high up into the air and optionally attack at the apex (maybe a tap of B to slash downard, and hold B to charge and release a smaller -- for balance -- Megiddo projectile). On the ground, Spire would materialize a spire in the air in front of Isaac that drops onto the ground; in the air, the spire materializes beneath Isaac's feat, and he can make up to 2-3 of them, hopping from one to the next with the classic Golden Sun hopping sound and animation, with each spire dropping as he jumps from it. Grip would normally hold an enemy and fling a sword-ready Isaac at them (maybe functioning as an addition to the Move Psynergy), but if used off-stage, it would grab the ledge and propel Isaac toward it, similar to a tether recovery. Lash would make Isaac throw his sword at the nearest ledge or opponent, and then he would cast the Lash Psynergy to bind a rope to the sword's hilt and propel him toward it. Lift and Carry should, I think, be used for throws.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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Updated support list.
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Alright, I just got home so I'll throw some ideas out there.

Isaac is a swordsman who brings skills with Alchemy into battle. This makes me think something similar to Robin as far as Magic + Sword. However, the mechanic of the sword disappearing wouldn't work with Isaac. Or at least my vision of him. Not to mention the Levin sword gets tossed because of the FE gameplay anyway. Whatever.

ANYWAY...obviously Isaac learns different abilities concerning Earth psynergy. Thus far, I've learned quake, earthquake and spire. My ideas of implementing some of the different moves/abilities are just some simple ideas of how they could work. I haven't really nailed down an archetype for him, but I'm mainly thinking zoning.

I figured Move would be retained considering his AT, and that could be relegated to his neutral B. It can deflect projectiles (or at least block them) and can push opponents away. Useful for gimping some characters off the side of the stage. Kinda like F.L.U.D.D but better.

Not sure about the other specials yet, but for Down B I felt like quake might work. I thought there could be something cool with this though...what if the longer you hold B for this move, the further away the ground does damage?

I picture this like Jax from Mortal Kombat 9. Jax has a Ground Pound attack where, depending on player input, Jax will generate an attack on the ground at different distances from himself. They go from right where he's standing, to about mid-ranged, to long range. Isaac has control over earth, so this seems like a fitting idea. This could also work for his down smash if Earthquake were his dsmash.

I haven't used it yet, but I assume Spire could work well as an up smash, similar to Palutena's Usmash. It would be fairly strong (considering it takes lots of PP to use it in Golden Sun) and would have good vertical range. I wonder if making it also act as a wall would be overpowered...

If Isaac is based on putting quakes around the stage, it would be a matter of stage control and reading the opponent (in a one on one). You wouldn't always want to engage your opponent directly, but using the sword isn't a bad option. Using Move would be an excellent option to keep the opponent away or to get them off of you with a C-C-C-Combo Breaker.

Thoughts?
Yeah, sure, I wouldn't mind Isaac being a ground-based stage control character that could affect the terrain by creating platforms and such. The unique propeties of the Venus Psynergy attacks means that Isaac will have many attacks sprouting from the ground, some which can work as great anti-air attacks and several others as anti-ground attacks, being able to greatly punish characters on the ground and in the air for their bad reads and reactions. For that reason, Isaac should have an above average speed to improve his spacing game, being able to both rush down with his sword, play the neutral game with a mid range Psynergy attack (particularly an earth-shaking attack like Quake which would stun them) and zone whenever he needs to. He would be the kind of character that would be better on the ground than in the air, though he is more like the inverse Wario to Little Mac's Jigglypuff.

The Jax idea reminds me of C. Viper's Seismic Toss in SF4 and MvC3 which works on a similar principle.

As for Move, I think giving it multiple follow-ups, including being the first projectile that can turn into a grab, would be interesting for some extra and unique mix-up options. The various follow-up attacks of course would be based on the Hand Psynergies.

I like the idea of Isaac being a fast faller.

Does anyone here has a good idea for Isaac's recovery?
i literally cannot come up with something good.
That Up-B idea from that Reddit moveset would be good.

Anyone got any good ideas for Isaac's taunts?
One of them could be Flint flying around Isaac with him smiling. Another could be him using his magical "hand" to give a thumbs up. If two Isaacs are on the battlefield, I like the idea of them giving each other an extended secret handshake as an easter egg taunt.
 

PUK

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And one of his taunt could be putting his hand up with his sword floating over his head, like when he find an item in GS
 

JaidynReiman

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I personally like spire as a meteor smash. Maybe a daair like Megaman's hard knuckle.


gosh darn it I guess it really is Isaac. Congrats to those who have been waiting for it anyway, I'll probably be the guy who's gonna criticize it since this is the probably the most anime-like character they're doing.

This also means some of their previous hints were fake. T_T
The only one that's fake is the pink hair one, and even then, all they did is recolor Isaac's hair. The only other possibility is that the "Golden Sun" is behind Isaac, which shines off his hair and makes it look pink-ish.


Yeh, it's definitely Isaac, finally. Can't wait!

Also, finally began Dark Dawn today. Not much progress because I'm super busy but I'll slowly get into it...
TECHNICALLY the hints can also work for Felix, but its very unlikely to be Felix. Its also pretty much impossible its Matthew unless they had even more fake hints, because Matthew is never a non-Silent Protagonist.
 

Skyblade12

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Well, it's a Golden Sun character, but maybe it's not Isaac. There were a couple Golden Sun characters with pink hair, right? :troll:
 

~Skelly~

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Yeah, sure, I wouldn't mind Isaac being a ground-based stage control character that could affect the terrain by creating platforms and such. The unique propeties of the Venus Psynergy attacks means that Isaac will have many attacks sprouting from the ground, some which can work as great anti-air attacks and several others as anti-ground attacks, being able to greatly punish characters on the ground and in the air for their bad reads and reactions. For that reason, Isaac should have an above average speed to improve his spacing game, being able to both rush down with his sword, play the neutral game with a mid range Psynergy attack (particularly an earth-shaking attack like Quake which would stun them) and zone whenever he needs to. He would be the kind of character that would be better on the ground than in the air, though he is more like the inverse Wario to Little Mac's Jigglypuff.

The Jax idea reminds me of C. Viper's Seismic Toss in SF4 and MvC3 which works on a similar principle.

As for Move, I think giving it multiple follow-ups, including being the first projectile that can turn into a grab, would be interesting for some extra and unique mix-up options. The various follow-up attacks of course would be based on the Hand Psynergies.

I like the idea of Isaac being a fast faller.



That Up-B idea from that Reddit moveset would be good.



One of them could be Flint flying around Isaac with him smiling. Another could be him using his magical "hand" to give a thumbs up. If two Isaacs are on the battlefield, I like the idea of them giving each other an extended secret handshake as an easter egg taunt.
Looks like I got booted off of that list for whatever reason, but yeah, these are good ideas for Isaac. They could work.
 

JaidynReiman

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Well, it's a Golden Sun character, but maybe it's not Isaac. There were a couple Golden Sun characters with pink hair, right? :troll:
The pink hair was definitely something to throw people off. There's no guarantee its Isaac, but Isaac fits EVERYTHING except for the pink hair. Felix would also fit much of it, though he doesn't have any blue at all on his outfit, and Matthew fits much of it, but he's ONLY a Silent Protagonist.
 

PUK

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The only GS character with pinks hair i can think of is Karst. And there not goku style
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Yeah, sure, I wouldn't mind Isaac being a ground-based stage control character that could affect the terrain by creating platforms and such. The unique propeties of the Venus Psynergy attacks means that Isaac will have many attacks sprouting from the ground, some which can work as great anti-air attacks and several others as anti-ground attacks, being able to greatly punish characters on the ground and in the air for their bad reads and reactions. For that reason, Isaac should have an above average speed to improve his spacing game, being able to both rush down with his sword, play the neutral game with a mid range Psynergy attack (particularly an earth-shaking attack like Quake which would stun them) and zone whenever he needs to. He would be the kind of character that would be better on the ground than in the air, though he is more like the inverse Wario to Little Mac's Jigglypuff.

The Jax idea reminds me of C. Viper's Seismic Toss in SF4 and MvC3 which works on a similar principle.

As for Move, I think giving it multiple follow-ups, including being the first projectile that can turn into a grab, would be interesting for some extra and unique mix-up options. The various follow-up attacks of course would be based on the Hand Psynergies.

I like the idea of Isaac being a fast faller.



That Up-B idea from that Reddit moveset would be good.



One of them could be Flint flying around Isaac with him smiling. Another could be him using his magical "hand" to give a thumbs up. If two Isaacs are on the battlefield, I like the idea of them giving each other an extended secret handshake as an easter egg taunt.
I love the idea of having Move able to cancel into a grab. I think that's a really cool idea, my only fear is that it might be overpowered.

I also just thought of an awesome combo. Use Move to knock an opponent back, then use quake (Ground Pound) where they were pushed to knock them into the air. You can follow up with an aerial attack or perhaps another Move as you approach.
 

BluePikmin11

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@ True Blue Warrior True Blue Warrior Add me to the support list please. For a long time, I seem to be absent in that list. I still want him because of his potential as a character even though I don't expect him.

As long as Isaac has an air game and a good recovery (eg: Not Little Mac) I'd be happy.
If Isaac is an earth-based adept, wouldn't it make more sense that he would have one of the better ground games in Smash?
 

TikiFan

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I will have no problem if Isaac appears in Smash. He is not a character that I will vote, but his moveset is cool. Just as the character when I vote (see signature).
 

Skyblade12

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@ True Blue Warrior True Blue Warrior Add me to the support list please. For a long time, I seem to be absent in that list. I still want him because of his potential as a character even though I don't expect him.
Welcome.

If Isaac is an earth-based adept, wouldn't it make more sense that he would have one of the better ground games in Smash?
It's certainly a possibility. But there is more to the character than that. Several of his attacks directly revolve around him jumping, including his standard attack swing! Plus, due to the jumping in the puzzles in Golden Sun, he does jump more than any other RPG hero I think I've ever met, so he should be decently comfortable in the air. Also, levitation is a fairly common aspect of Psynergy. Spire, for example, uses floating rocks to crush the opponent. Lift will raise a stone in the air, etcetera.

While I acknowledge that being heavily ground-based could lead itself to a fairly ground-centered character, I would argue that it is more of a fit thematically than it is representative of Isaac from his series, which is what more of the characters in Smash 4 seem to be drawn from.

You are right in that it is certainly a possible direction for him to be taken in, and we should consider that. Personally, I don't really mind much however he plays, though. I just want him in the game.
 
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