Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[Bassoonist]

You can't really claim to know what Nintendo is thinking. They might consider it a megaton or they might not consider it a megaton. Your own opinion on what seems like a megaton doesn't mean anything.

During the last two years at E3 they have announced three characters each time. So however you look at it, two would be a step down.

You could argue that would be because it's dlc but I don't consider that to be a very compelling argument. There's no way to convincingly argue it one way or the other. It being dlc might mean the situation is different or it could make no difference to Nintendo (and Sakurai) in terms of how much content they want to reveal.

I'm not saying they'll necessarily have trailers and gameplay footage for all of the characters, they might pull another Mewtwo type reveal.

Don't get too hung up on my wording of "megaton". My point is that if Nintendo goes about the traditional "ignore what we leaked", Roy and Ryu are supposed to be a big surprise in of themselves... So if they follow that logic they might not feel they need to reveal anything else.

I didn't notice the three character reveal pattern, though - That's definitely something to take into account. Although I also think that it being DLC could very well have an effect on how much they reveal. It could also be more. We won't know until then.

 

[Burruni]

She's not called Caeda in Japanese or European copies of Shadow Dragon iirc

Blaaaame American Translation being different.

In news for the Sakurai direct, I think we're going to get the news about Lucas, Miiverse, and Tournament mode. At the end, we'll see a final bit about some explaination for the Ballot where it is and will come.

 

[Coaltergeist]

Blaaaame American Translation being different.

In news for the Sakurai direct, I think we're going to get the news about Lucas, Miiverse, and Tournament mode. At the end, we'll see a final bit about some explaination for the Ballot where it is and will come.

Lucas releases that day tho. I'm not so reticent on my beliefs about ryu, but Roy is pretty likely. We'll get more info at e3 regardless, tho so I wouldn't expect too much.

 

[Nintendokusou]

You can't really claim to know what Nintendo is thinking. They might consider it a megaton or they might not consider it a megaton. Your own opinion on what seems like a megaton doesn't mean anything.

During the last two years at E3 they have announced three characters each time. So however you look at it, two would be a step down.

You could argue that would be because it's dlc but I don't consider that to be a very compelling argument. There's no way to convincingly argue it one way or the other. It being dlc might mean the situation is different or it could make no difference to Nintendo (and Sakurai) in terms of how much content they want to reveal.

I'm not saying they'll necessarily have trailers and gameplay footage for all of the characters, they might pull another Mewtwo type reveal.



Actually I just saw this post on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3914u9/new_sakurai_post_0608_the_update_that_includes/

"The update that includes Lucas will be available beginning 08:00 AM on June 14 (PT), 17:00 (CEST) on June 14th, and 01:00 AM on June 15 (AEST).

We made a special video broadcast to talk about the update. In it, I'll be on camera to give you all the details!
We'll air the video online right before the update, at 07:40 AM on June 14 (PT), 16:40 (CEST) on June 14th, and 0:40 AM on June 15 (AEST). Please check it out before the update becomes available!"

So it seems the direct will last around 20 minutes. I still think there's bound to be a "surprise" in there somewhere though.

5 mins is enough for a trailer and saying X character is coming, so 20 mins might be enough for everything.
However, I still feel they might keep Ryu (if he is in) for the Digital Event if they are going to mention Project X Zone 2 in any way. Just found out that apparently Monolith is helping Bandai with that game!?
If we get anything in the small presentation, it's got to be Roy or another returning character...
For the Digital Event I wouldn't exclude the possibility of two characters (for three in total), but remember this is after the game's release and just for DLC, it doesn't need to be so hyped up, so two character overall might be enough.

 

[N3ON]

Just because Roy is (probably) coming doesn't mean he'll necessarily be at E3. I think Wolf is likelier due to SF Wii U.

I do think we'll see Ryu though.

 

[FalKoopa]

Just because Roy is (probably) coming doesn't mean he'll necessarily be at E3. I think Wolf is likelier due to SF Wii U.

I do think we'll see Ryu though.

People are doubtful about Wolf probably because we don't have hard proof of him being in development.

 

[Nintendokusou]

Just because Roy is (probably) coming doesn't mean he'll necessarily be at E3. I think Wolf is likelier due to SF Wii U.

I do think we'll see Ryu though.

That logic could also be applied to Star Fox's release date later this year and using Wolf as cross promotion material!?

 

[JaidynReiman]

That logic could also be applied to Star Fox's release date later this year and using Wolf as cross promotion material!?

That's true, but there's nothing to really promote Roy for. He'll get an Amiibo and will be in If from that, but he himself doesn't have any game coming out or anything.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

I'll be hype as hell just watching Lucas, but I do believe we'll get a surprise at the end of Sakurai's video, probably a character reveal.

And on Nintendo's Digital Event at E3 we will probably get two other characters.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'll be hype as hell just watching Lucas, but I do believe we'll get a surprise at the end of Sakurai's video, probably a character reveal.

And on Nintendo's Digital Event at E3 we will probably get two other characters.

I don't think we'll get TWO other characters in the Digital Event. If anything, we'll get one there and two in Sakurai's. We'll see, though.

 

[Falgor]

Like Iwata says: Please, take a look:

The whole video is hilarious, and there's something nice to notice at 4:08.

About Sakurai's video, in pretty confused. I mean, there's E3 in one week, the Fire Emblem concert to reveal Roy and possibly the EVO to reveal Ryu in July... The whole schedule seems pretty strange: Why bother making a separate video for Smash just before E3? And what will they talk about for 20 minutes? It's a pretty long time, but I just can't see them showing a character now. Wolf doesn't make sense either, since they'll show the new Starfox at E3. The opportunity to announce/show them at the same time is too obvious. I'm confus.

 

[Coaltergeist]

Like Iwata says: Please, take a look:

The whole video is hilarious, and there's something nice to notice at 4:08.

About Sakurai's video, in pretty confused. I mean, there's E3 in one week, the Fire Emblem concert to reveal Roy and possibly the EVO to reveal Ryu in July... The whole schedule seems pretty strange: Why bother making a separate video for Smash just before E3? And what will they talk about for 20 minutes? It's a pretty long time, but I just can't see them showing a character now. Wolf doesn't make sense either, since they'll show the new Starfox at E3. The opportunity to announce/show them at the same time is too obvious. I'm confus.

Companies have been doing pre-e3 videos/announcements for a few years now. The most likely outcome I forsee is one character announced on the 14th and another at e3. Of course it's also possible that they are doing all of the Smash related news BEFORE e3 as to not take away from other possible franchises/games. Personally I think the former is more likely but they're both possible.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I don't think we'll get TWO other characters in the Digital Event. If anything, we'll get one there and two in Sakurai's. We'll see, though.

I said it in another thread but I'm banking on it being:

1 character reveal during the Smash presentation
1 character reveal during the digital event
1 character reveal during E3 (similar to WFT and Pac-Man in previous years)

With an outside chance of some sort of ballot character reveal.

 

[Altais]

The one character I'm expecting the most during this Sunday's broadcast is Wolf. I have a feeling there will be some sort of surprise at the very end, similar to Greninja in the April Smash Direct.

Though I really don't want to get mine hopes up, I'm nevertheless eager to hear what Sakurai might have to say about the Smash Ballot, and if he's considered Isaac.

With mine laptop kaput, though, I'm probably going to have to use a public computer, since I doubt I'll be able watch the broadcast on mine Wii U.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Unless they show Wolf I doubt I'll be excited for any of the possible new reveals. They all sound like hot garbage to me.

 

[Calane]

I never liked Wolf, still don't, so if Wolf is all they show...I'll be disappointed. Not that it matters, I'll be happy for the people who wanted him. I hope he announces Isaac (which won't happen), or shows off Roy (who I'm interested to see back. I wonder if he'll change at all.) Or maybe...just maybe...announce Takamaru as playable! (Not even in my wildest dreams could this ever happen).

 

[Spootondorf]

Anyone here who has played Dark Dawn, what are your thoughts on it? It was generally well-received, but it seems like the Golden Sun fanbase was not too pleased with some of the changes.

There were quite a few things that irked me about it, including the overworld chibi models, especially the hands. Only the last point of no return really annoyed me, though. The menus seemed clunkier, and IIRC, it was more of a hassle to see what setting/unsetting a Djinni would do to a party member. The added weapon unleashes meant that weapons were no longer as reliable as before -- even if your unleash rate were 99% with the Sol Blade, it has about four different unleashes (a great thing only for a Smash Bros. moveset) that are radically different in strength, so good luck hitting with Megiddo every time. Battle sound effects were lacking, battle Psynergy was big but looked weak (probably due to the lack of detail), and the amount of battles it took for a character to master one weapon as opposed to another seemed inconsistent. The soundtrack had some awesome songs, but the proportion of good-to-meh songs was lower than in Lost Age.

The story didn't start out with much gravity, being a fetch quest, only getting better once the big event happens (not sure how much you've played, so I'm omitting the details). NPC's act like the world is huge, but it takes very little time to get to the next town, especially when you consider that the rate of random encounters is incredibly low. There are two huge increases in difficulty amongst a sea of pathetically easy battles, making most first-time players unprepared. Puzzles and non-optional-boss dungeons are insultingly easy, but the NPC's and your party members have to explain how to do everything a billion freakin' times (like in Passaj), and they all act as if the puzzles/dungeons are the hardest things you've ever tried to conquer, whereas they're actually pathetically small and easy to navigate (e.g. the Ouroboros). Party members are chattier than in the first two games, or at least more repetitive, turning redundancy up to 11. You get a party of eight just to match the final party size from Lost Age, whereas all but one of Lost Age's party members were shown to us in GS1 and were pretty much expected; eight in DD seemed too many for the game we got, especially when one or two of them were only there to give us items/abilities, making party growth seem inorganic and, at the end, crammed in. Consequently, there needed to be more Djinn, and they were also acquired unnaturally quickly. Additionally, we got old Djinn back... but many of the new ones did the same things as the non-returning old ones.... I didn't experiment with classes much, but I've heard that the class system was pared back, with fewer available classes.

Too much happened in the 30 years that had passed from the previous game: the land was changed drastically; a giant wall came up out of nowhere (but it "had been there" before, supposedly), the beast people actually had a history instead of being confined to a single cursed village (or whatever it was in Lost Age); and the Tuaparang also sprung up from nowhere!

Also, the moves that Blados and Chalis use in combat don't fit them in a very important respect... but I'll leave it at that.

Finally, there's the cliffhanger, and it didn't appear to have anything to do with the bulk of the game.

I'm sure there's more, but that's plenty for now. It's a fun game, but if you played the originals first, especially "back in the day", Dark Dawn was definitely a disappointment after seven long years of waiting. Those who played DD first are lucky in this respect.

 

[Coaltergeist]

There were quite a few things that irked me about it, including the overworld chibi models, especially the hands. Only the last point of no return really annoyed me, though. The menus seemed clunkier, and IIRC, it was more of a hassle to see what setting/unsetting a Djinni would do to a party member. The added weapon unleashes meant that weapons were no longer as reliable as before -- even if your unleash rate were 99% with the Sol Blade, it has about four different unleashes (a great thing only for a Smash Bros. moveset) that are radically different in strength, so good luck hitting with Megiddo every time. Battle sound effects were lacking, battle Psynergy was big but looked weak (probably due to the lack of detail), and the amount of battles it took for a character to master one weapon as opposed to another seemed inconsistent. The soundtrack had some awesome songs, but the proportion of good-to-meh songs was lower than in Lost Age.

The story didn't start out with much gravity, being a fetch quest, only getting better once the big event happens (not sure how much you've played, so I'm omitting the details). NPC's act like the world is huge, but it takes very little time to get to the next town, especially when you consider that the rate of random encounters is incredibly low. There are two huge increases in difficulty amongst a sea of pathetically easy battles, making most first-time players unprepared. Puzzles and non-optional-boss dungeons are insultingly easy, but the NPC's and your party members have to explain how to do everything a billion freakin' times (like in Passaj), and they all act as if the puzzles/dungeons are the hardest things you've ever tried to conquer, whereas they're actually pathetically small and easy to navigate (e.g. the Ouroboros). Party members are chattier than in the first two games, or at least more repetitive, turning redundancy up to 11. You get a party of eight just to match the final party size from Lost Age, whereas all but one of Lost Age's party members were shown to us in GS1 and were pretty much expected; eight in DD seemed too many for the game we got, especially when one or two of them were only there to give us items/abilities, making party growth seem inorganic and, at the end, crammed in. Consequently, there needed to be more Djinn, and they were also acquired unnaturally quickly. Additionally, we got old Djinn back... but many of the new ones did the same things as the non-returning old ones.... I didn't experiment with classes much, but I've heard that the class system was pared back, with fewer available classes.

Too much happened in the 30 years that had passed from the previous game: the land was changed drastically; a giant wall came up out of nowhere (but it "had been there" before, supposedly), the beast people actually had a history instead of being confined to a single cursed village (or whatever it was in Lost Age); and the Tuaparang also sprung up from nowhere!

Also, the moves that Blados and Chalis use in combat don't fit them in a very important respect... but I'll leave it at that.

Finally, there's the cliffhanger, and it didn't appear to have anything to do with the bulk of the game.

I'm sure there's more, but that's plenty for now. It's a fun game, but if you played the originals first, especially "back in the day", Dark Dawn was definitely a disappointment after seven long years of waiting. Those who played DD first are lucky in this respect.

I've played it multiple times, don't worry . I'm sure others appreciate the spoiler-free comments tho.

I used to be in the same boat as you, but I recognize that a few of the changes were for the better (even though there are many flaws, yes).

Just heads up SPOILER ALERT for Lost age and DD

Spoiler

For what it's worth, I felt that the characterization in the first 2 games was very lacking, and, to a certain extent, DD fixed that. The landscape changed quite a lot, but I feel that it was very well-justified. It was interesting to see the beastmen, but they aren't the same people as those who you found in Garoh. Those people were werewolves, but the beastmen of Belinsk were pure blooded. After the Golden Sun (but b4 DD), the Sanan people (who were originally the inhabitants of Belinsk) were ousted by the Beastmen, which kind of explains their absence in the first 2 games. The Sanans, IIRC, were the same people who inhabited Xian and Lama Temple. As for the Tuaparang, there was a reason that they weren't using their dark psynergy early on; they didn't want to be found out! Also their entire country is on an airship (technology that really doesn't fit the universe lol), so it makes sense that they were unknown before this.

As for the more story-related elements, many people had issues with the entire game pretty much being a sidequest after you get the mountain roc feather, but I thought the introduction of the Alchemy Dynamo as a "bad" alchemy device was a necessary move. You see, the only alchemy-related machines up until now were good for the world, and even though we had heard of the adverse effects of alchemy, we had never seen them in action. Such a move should have been in the first game, in order to strengthen Isaac's cause against Felix and his gang.

In the gameplay department, pretty much all of what you said is right. The puzzles, as amazingly intricate as they were, were kind of easy, and the difficulty spikes at the eclipse and the final boss are pretty brutal for newcomers. And the explaining can be EXTREMELY brutal, especially for people who've played it before.

Overall I don't feel that it deserved all of the hate that it got from Golden Sun hardcore fans, but it did deserve the 8/10s that it got from review sites.

 

[MagiusNecros]

If hardcore Golden Sun fans hated Dark Dawn all that means is they weren't hardcore Golden Sun fans.

The game had flaws yes but it was far from bad.

 

[Altais]

Personally, the only thing I really disliked about Dark Dawn were the paths of no return and all the one-chance sequences. I can't stand that trait in any RPG. Other than that, I thoroughly enjoyed Dark Dawn, albeit not as much as the GBA games.

 

[Coaltergeist]

Personally, the only thing I really disliked about Dark Dawn were the paths of no return and all the one-chance sequences. I can't stand that trait in any RPG. Other than that, I thoroughly enjoyed Dark Dawn, albeit not as much as the GBA games.

My only hope is that Camelot knows what people thought of DD. I'm sure they have an idea, reviewer criticism was similar in nature to what has been said here.

Forgot to say, too, that DD's soundtrack is godly. Pretty much as good as Lost Age IMO. I posted it here b4 but Without the Forge gives me chills every time.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/comments/3835zz/golden_sun_soundtrack_remastered_90_done_will/

Also, if you like the GS soundtrack, check that out; it's a personal project I've been working on.

 

[Calane]

I personally loved Dark Dawn. I have played the original, and I still feel that DD is slightly better than it. I can't speak for The Lost Age, as I've never gotten the chance to play it (darn you, US virtual console!) But I can say with confidence that I enjoyed DD more than the original (though the original was very good, too). Reasons? Well, here you go for whoever is interested.

1: I didn't like how if you made two characters attack an enemy and one of them killed it, the other wouldn't do anything with their turn. That annoyed me quite a bit. I believe this problem was fixed in DD.

2: I didn't really feel like I accomplished anything in the original. At the end of it all, I just wondered what It was I was doing. I remember saving a village from being flooded, and protecting people on a boat. But at the end of the day, did Isaac and crew really accomplish anything substantial? I understand that's what the sequel is for, but as I mentioned, I never played it. So GS 1 is how the story ended for me. DD, while being somewhat of a big side quest, actually made me feel like I was responsible for what happened and really made me want to save the world. It was the story of Matthew stepping up to be a leader and fix the mess he helped cause. It was a cool story to me. That, and I liked DD's characters more than the original (though they were cool too).

3: The game felt longer to me. I'm not sure if it is or not, but it took me much longer to beat DD than the original. In fact, the original felt very short, making me want more. While DD left me feeling somewhat accomplished, but ended up teasing me with that cliffhanger at the end. If not for the cliffhanger, I'd say DD was a perfect length. Not too long, not too short. The cliffhanger made the adventure seem unfinished, so I can't really say that the game ended there. I can't wait to finish the full DD story in the next game.

4: I don't really mind when a game is easy, in fact, difficulty doesn't bother me much in games. If a game is super easy, it won't ruin my experience as I look for other things in video games than just difficulty. That said, the original was SUPER easy. I don't remember dying once, I beat all the bosses like nothing, and didn't even need to use one summon. I was way overpowered, I think. Nothing, not even the last boss could stop me. With DD, while also not a super hard game, It's difficulty never felt too easy or too hard. I also remember needing to use summons and having a hard time with the last boss. It wasn't a hard game, but I feel it was slightly harder than the original. Not by much, but a little.

5: Here is where I'd put minor things like "character designs", "music" and things of that nature. I prefer almost everything in Dark Dawn to the original. This is barely making my list, as I feel the original was just as strong as DD with these things, but I just happen to like one slightly more than the other.

And there you have it. I could go on, but I don't want to. Both GS and DD are amazing games, and I'll probably replay them both pretty soon (after I beat Phantasy Star IV). I know that I'm strange for preferring DD to the original, but I gave my reasons. Again, both great games, I just like one slightly more than the other.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Dark Dawn has points of no return.

And hid Djinns behind them.

It's fun, but I LOATHE points of no return.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

How to play Golden Sun on hard mode: Just let a boss use Djinn Storm.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Guys, after I'm done with Mother 3, I'm going to be taking on Lost Age finally. With the save file from before, I think I should be good on getting up the stuff from the previous game via the password-function.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

Guys, after I'm done with Mother 3, I'm going to be taking on Lost Age finally. With the save file from before, I think I should be good on getting up the stuff from the previous game via the password-function.

Mother 3 and Golden Sun: TLA, awesome RPGs right there.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Mother 3 and Golden Sun: TLA, awesome RPGs right there.

Hehh. GBA's flagship RPGs indeed. I really wish we'll have Isaac join Lucas sometime in the future.

(And hey, what would stop Felix being Isaac's alt?

Also is it me or do both Isaac and Lucas have pretty damn similar color scheme)

 

[Nintendokusou]

Hehh. GBA's flagship RPGs indeed. I really wish we'll have Isaac join Lucas sometime in the future.

(And hey, what would stop Felix being Isaac's alt?)

Hey, you there! Yes, you! Come here... - Remember Isaac's son, Mathew? There's your answer to what's stopping him!

Now seriously, Mathew has the same statistical distribution as Isaac in the games, while Felix is slower, for example.
In the long run, I think Mathew would be the alternate costume and Felix the clone.
But I'm fine with either idea as long as we get a Golden Sun representative in the game!

 

[LasermasterA]

They are somewhat weird from a story perspective, Djinn that is. Our heroes need Djinn to be as powerful as they are (gameplay wise at least) whereas all villains including the Proxian adepts are super strong as they are, without Djinn.

About Dark Dawn, I liked the game quite a bit but it had some negative aspects which still make me favour the original like the points of no return (without much indication), hidden Djinn and summons (that one using dream leaf is one wacky way that I never thought of), too easy difficulty, party members which talk too much (along with unnecessary 8 member party). That's about it I guess.

Otherwise the game was still fun and addicting, With the GS formula.

(And hey, what would stop Felix being Isaac's alt?

Matthew.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I like 8 member parties the most when they're handled well. Sometimes the 8 member party in Dark Dawn felt like somebody said "Hey let's have 8 playable characters, it'll be cool" rather than "I have ideas for 8 characters that will make great playable characters and will interact well with each other".

Xenoblade Chronicles is probably a good example, it had seven characters but they were all good characters (some better than others but arguably all interesting worthwhile characters) who really enhanced the adventure.

 

[Coaltergeist]

Guys, after I'm done with Mother 3, I'm going to be taking on Lost Age finally. With the save file from before, I think I should be good on getting up the stuff from the previous game via the password-function.

Just make sure you have 2 GBAs if you want the gold option...

Many hours of my life have been wasted ****ing around with that god-forsaken password system.

 

[9Blades]

If hardcore Golden Sun fans hated Dark Dawn all that means is they weren't hardcore Golden Sun fans.

The game had flaws yes but it was far from bad.

Dark Dawn wasn't bad. Could have been a Paper Mario Sticker Star or Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories.

Just make sure you have 2 GBAs if you want the gold option...

Many hours of my life have been wasted ****ing around with that god-forsaken password system.

The password system was the only time I ever ragequit GS. And have to do it all over again on VC :I

 

[Bassoonist]

God, Paper Mario Sticker Star is just sad. They stripped everything good from the Paper Mario formula, and all that's left is an empty shell.

Dark Dawn is indeed not even comparable. In fact, I didn't really find much disappointment when I played through it... But I've only played through it once and was just so happy to have a new Golden Sun game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Beat 2 games of my backlog, GS2 is close

 

[Burruni]

Just to ask
What is YOUR most hated part of the Golden Sun Trilogy?

For me...

The sea maze to Lemuria.
Worst thing ever.

 

[Coaltergeist]

Just to ask
What is YOUR most hated part of the Golden Sun Trilogy?

For me...

The sea maze to Lemuria.
Worst thing ever.

The first hour of Dark Dawn. There is an excruciating amount of unskippable text/dialogue. Same with the opening to Lost Age, but to a lesser extent.

 

[Bassoonist]

I remember The Lost Age giving me a massive headache once when I was on a camping trip and had no guide to refer to. It was one of the "Rock"s. Maybe Gaia Rock?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Air's Rock. It took me a day to figure out one small thing of a puzzle and it was the dumbest thing I would overlook for hours.

1 day. One.

 

[LasermasterA]

Just to ask
What is YOUR most hated part of the Golden Sun Trilogy?

For me...

The sea maze to Lemuria.
Worst thing ever.

I think that part was easy and short even if you don't remember the song they sing in Yallam.

The thing that irked me the most in The Lost Age was Kibombo. I don't know why but that region with its puzzles bored me immensely.

Oh and the excessive explanations in Dark Dawn. And the come back after the game nature of Dullahan along with the missable Djiins. And since I had encountered a very rare, game-breaking bug, the lack of teleport to nearest sanctum.

 

[Bassoonist]

Air's Rock. It took me a day to figure out one small thing of a puzzle and it was the dumbest thing I would overlook for hours.

1 day. One.

Looking into it, it was Air's Rock for me, too (not Gaia Rock). On the Golden Sun Wiki page for Air's Rock it is the puzzle that shows in the "Red Side Path" picture that got me.