Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[Kycse]

Ah, it feels so good to be back. Haven't been on here in a while. Back to hoping for Isaac once again!!

I wanted to comment on the drawing of Isaac's moveset. I think that it's a great idea that would help people see what we see, some of the great potential that Isaac has as a character to be used in smash 4! Having said that I do have some thoughts. I think that Isaac should draw from his gameplay in golden sun as much as possible. Things like his spot dodge and air dodge should defenitely be Cloak as mentioned earlier (Outline only visible) rather than just a dodge. I've always thought that Isaac would be really interesting with Grip as a tether grab. A small glove would reach out and try to grab, instead of the opponent coming to him though, he would go towards the opponents location instead! also it could be another form of recovery, too! just like in his games!

 

[CheckmateChuck]

Cloak as Air/Spotdodge and Sand as the roll would be one of those little things that would make the character even more unique. Give him as many little nudges to the gameplay as possible. Maybe even a spire-like attack as the Fair, possibly some "Tremor"-inspired attack to make the opponent tumble.
All in all, I feel like the fewer of his attacks use his sword, the better the general reaction to his moveset would be.
I really like @StrikeBlade 's artstyle there. It's simple and yet brings the point across very well. Love it!

 

[DustyPumpkin]

His artwork usually has a sword so unfortunately it seems so

Bah, it's even in his brawl Model...

Ah, it feels so good to be back. Haven't been on here in a while. Back to hoping for Isaac once again!!

I wanted to comment on the drawing of Isaac's moveset. I think that it's a great idea that would help people see what we see, some of the great potential that Isaac has as a character to be used in smash 4! Having said that I do have some thoughts. I think that Isaac should draw from his gameplay in golden sun as much as possible. Things like his spot dodge and air dodge should defenitely be Cloak as mentioned earlier (Outline only visible) rather than just a dodge. I've always thought that Isaac would be really interesting with Grip as a tether grab. A small glove would reach out and try to grab, instead of the opponent coming to him though, he would go towards the opponents location instead! also it could be another form of recovery, too! just like in his games!

Now see, the problem with Grip being a tether grab is...
well there's no Tether, it's a floating hand a distance away from him, it's not connected to him in any physical way.

 

[N3ON]

I have to go to work soon, but I'll continue this tonight when I get back.

Very nice start!

Which psynergy are you planning to implement?

 

[Spootondorf]

His forward or neutral specials (plural because of customs) could be Ragnarok, Odyssey from Lost Age, and Odyssey from Dark Dawn. Ragnarok would spike either on the very end of the sword as it reaches its final position or under the sword as it travels. Odyssey (Lost Age) would cause mostly horizontal knockback, while Odyssey (Dark Dawn) would cause a downward motion if used in the air and a bounce if used on the ground. Ragnarok would be the quickest of the bunch, reflecting both its speed in the games, as well as compensating for its lesser power relative to Odyssey. Both versions of Odyssey would either be used like Marth's Swords Dance (multiple button presses) or they would be entirely charged moves. I would favor three presses, with the last being a charge for the large sword.

I see these three moves as Isaac's strongest non-FS attacks. I wouldn't want to diminish how powerful they seem in the Golden Sun series by weakening them in Smash. Basically, they are roughly equivalent to Ganondorf's moves in the following manner: Ragnarok = Warlock Thrust (but better, and with a spike), Odyssey (TLA) = Warlock Punch, and Odyssey (DD) = Ganondorf's down-aerial (stomp).

 

[Spootondorf]

Now see, the problem with Grip being a tether grab is...
well there's no Tether, it's a floating hand a distance away from him, it's not connected to him in any physical way.

I don't see this as a problem. Just think of Zelda, Sheik, Palutena, and Mewtwo's recoveries: they disappear and reappear elsewhere. In either case, it's just a matter of good aim.

 

[N3ON]

Even though it wouldn't be too groundbreaking or earthshaking (heh) I still see Isaac's recovery simply as Teleport. But at least it would look cool all in HD and whatnot.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Don't give Isaac a teleport please. I rather have his Move hand do the recovery for him than doing the relatively cliche teleport if he's playable.

 

[Falgor]

What I always had in mind was a tether recovery using Growth. Instead of having something coming from Isaac, he would make the vines come to him.

 

[Spootondorf]

He could use Teleport/Retreat, Move (I figured it could shove him horizontally, but shove enemies while grounded), Cyclone (if he can equip the Cyclone Chip in Lost Age), Carry, or a Growth tether recovery. Lots of options. I figure we should have three distinct ones, because Isaac's move pool can accommodate it.

 

[N3ON]

I think they've pretty much done away with tether recoveries... at least as the up special.

There are a lot of options for Isaac's recovery, but then again there are a lot of options for pretty much all his moves.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

I don't see this as a problem. Just think of Zelda, Sheik, Palutena, and Mewtwo's recoveries: they disappear and reappear elsewhere. In either case, it's just a matter of good aim.

Those are RECOVERIES as in ^ B's
We're talking about a grab and everyone who has a teather recovery has one the makes sense, Hookshot Rope-Snake, you can see where they start and where they end

 

[Kycse]

Now see, the problem with Grip being a tether grab is...
well there's no Tether, it's a floating hand a distance away from him, it's not connected to him in any physical way.

haha, this is definitely true. however, it never stopped him from pulling himself to giant spires in dungeons before. I don't see why he couldn't just send a glove flying to the ledge, hang there similarly to any other tether grab and pull himself to the ledge. But thats just my opinion. The great thing about Isaac is there are sooo many possibilities. My only hope is that IF Isaac does make it in as playable is that he's interesting and not just basic sword swings.

 

[Spootondorf]

Those are RECOVERIES as in ^ B's
We're talking about a grab and everyone who has a teather recovery has one the makes sense, Hookshot Rope-Snake, you can see where they start and where they end

Heh, oops. I read the word "tether" and immediately thought "recovery".

 

[DustyPumpkin]

haha, this is definitely true. however, it never stopped him from pulling himself to giant spires in dungeons before. I don't see why he couldn't just send a glove flying to the ledge, hang there similarly to any other tether grab and pull himself to the ledge. But thats just my opinion. The great thing about Isaac is there are sooo many possibilities. My only hope is that IF Isaac does make it in as playable is that he's interesting and not just basic sword swings.

He could use Growth for his grab

 

[Kycse]

Oh oh also, with Grip as his grab, he could then use other utility synergy as his throws!

Forward - I imagine "Move" being his forward throw (Glove palm pushes his opponent forward and away like his Assist trophy in brawl)

Down - His Down throw could be a combination of "Tremor" and "Pound" (Isaac uses tremor causing his opponent to fall to the floor while a glove fist smashes down into the opponent bouncing them into the air)

Up - Up throw is a bit of a stretch but maybe a combination of "lift" and Ragnarok? (Opponent is lifted upwards with two glove hands when a giant sword comes crashing down)

Backwards - eh, I dunno... "Move" again?

 

[FalKoopa]

I'd prefer him summoning a floating platform below him, or a fountain of sand blasting him upwards.

 

[Kycse]

I'd prefer him summoning a floating platform below him, or a fountain of sand blasting him upwards.

As an Up B I totally agree. I'm not a fan of a teleport Up B because it feels very generic at times. Jumping off of a spire was always my idea but I like the fountain of sand idea much better!

 

[LasermasterA]

Let's just make Meggido as Up B and 'B' done with it (He leaps up, remember?)

Judgement can be final Smash. OP Isaac FTW!

 

[Falgor]

Oh oh also, with Grip as his grab, he could then use other utility synergy as his throws!

Forward - I imagine "Move" being his forward throw (Glove palm pushes his opponent forward and away like his Assist trophy in brawl)

Down - His Down throw could be a combination of "Tremor" and "Pound" (Isaac uses tremor causing his opponent to fall to the floor while a glove fist smashes down into the opponent bouncing them into the air)

Up - Up throw is a bit of a stretch but maybe a combination of "lift" and Ragnarok? (Opponent is lifted upwards with two glove hands when a giant sword comes crashing down)

Backwards - eh, I dunno... "Move" again?

That's almost what I did in my personal Isaac moveset!

 

[Spootondorf]

Oh oh also, with Grip as his grab, he could then use other utility synergy as his throws!

Forward - I imagine "Move" being his forward throw (Glove palm pushes his opponent forward and away like his Assist trophy in brawl)

Down - His Down throw could be a combination of "Tremor" and "Pound" (Isaac uses tremor causing his opponent to fall to the floor while a glove fist smashes down into the opponent bouncing them into the air)

Up - Up throw is a bit of a stretch but maybe a combination of "lift" and Ragnarok? (Opponent is lifted upwards with two glove hands when a giant sword comes crashing down)

Backwards - eh, I dunno... "Move" again?

Grip wouldn't make for a good grab, since it would take you to your opponent. Catch would be perfect, though.

Grab: Catch
Pummel: Slap (via the Slap Gloves)
Up-throw: Lift (fast with a sharp release; not exactly canon, but I don't mind)
Down-throw: Pound (though I do like your combination of Tremor and Pound)
Forward-throw: Force (very short range)
Back-throw: Carry (fast with a sharp release)

Honestly... I'm not a big fan of Move when it comes to including it in Smash. Not only does it seem too good for anything but a grab, it's also just not very interesting, IMO. I think the other hand utility Psynergies are more interesting and Smash-applicable, despite Move's iconic status.

Now, as for what Grip would be good for. I think it would make a perfect launching move: it grips an enemy from afar and then propels you toward it for a headbutt or sword strike. It could function like that off-stage / in-air, too, or it could grab onto the ledge as a pseudo tether recovery, as stated in other posts.

 

[Arteen]

What I'd love to see for a recovery is Isaac materializing a boulder then psynergy lifting it up from below him. This boulder would float for a few seconds and act as a temporary platform before lift wears off and it falls down.

If not that, Megiddo would be awesome. And of course there are a bunch of other recoveries he could have, too. Growth, lash, grip. retreat...

 

[JaidynReiman]

Grip wouldn't make for a good grab, since it would take you to your opponent. Catch would be perfect, though.

Grab: Catch
Pummel: Slap (via the Slap Gloves)
Up-throw: Lift (fast with a sharp release; not exactly canon, but I don't mind)
Down-throw: Pound (though I do like your combination of Tremor and Pound)
Forward-throw: Force (very short range)
Back-throw: Carry (fast with a sharp release)

Honestly... I'm not a big fan of Move when it comes to including it in Smash. Not only does it seem too good for anything but a grab, it's also just not very interesting, IMO. I think the other hand utility Psynergies are more interesting and Smash-applicable, despite Move's iconic status.

Now, as for what Grip would be good for. I think it would make a perfect launching move: it grips an enemy from afar and then propels you toward it for a headbutt or sword strike. It could function like that off-stage / in-air, too, or it could grab onto the ledge as a pseudo tether recovery, as stated in other posts.

Oh, I think Move is perfectly fine; just make it his forward throw. And make his other throws different types of Psynergy. Catch, of course, is his grab, forward throw is Move, down throw could be crush, not sure about up.

What I'd love to see for a recovery is Isaac materializing a boulder then psynergy lifting it up from below him. This boulder would float for a few seconds and act as a temporary platform before lift wears off and it falls down.

If not that, Megiddo would be awesome. And of course there are a bunch of other recoveries he could have, too. Growth, lash, grip. retreat...

Personally I still prefer Isaac using Djinn as his specials, but Teleport could be a recovery if they go with Psynergy instead.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

I found a interesting read on this blog were it showed all the evidence pointing to DLC in smash, but what really caught my eye was the extra all star stages for 7-9 on Wii U, so there's the possibility of a total of 16 DLC characters including Mewtwo & Lucas so there could be 14 slots left. What do you guys think?
https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/10/was-dlc-planned-for-smash-4/

 

[JaidynReiman]

I found a interesting read on this blog were it showed all the evidence pointing to DLC in smash, but what really caught my eye was the extra all star stages for 7-9 on Wii U, so there's the possibility of a total of 16 DLC characters including Mewtwo & Lucas so there could be 14 slots left. What do you guys think?
https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/10/was-dlc-planned-for-smash-4/

It won't get that high. They just left enough extra in just in just in case they did. I think people are underestimating how much DLC we can get, but 14 is still way too much.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

It won't get that high. They just left enough extra in just in just in case they did. I think people are underestimating how much DLC we can get, but 14 is still way too much.

Well i guess we can keep guessing the number of characters, but I'll still keep this evidence in mind.

 

[FalKoopa]

I found a interesting read on this blog were it showed all the evidence pointing to DLC in smash, but what really caught my eye was the extra all star stages for 7-9 on Wii U, so there's the possibility of a total of 16 DLC characters including Mewtwo & Lucas so there could be 14 slots left. What do you guys think?
https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/10/was-dlc-planned-for-smash-4/

16 characters is too much work for Sakurai and too much pressure on our wallets. I don't think we'll get even 10 DLC characters.

As an example, Brawl's CSS is designed to expand and hold upto 50 slots, despite the planned roster being nowhere near that number.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

16 characters is too much work for Sakurai and too much pressure on our wallets. I don't think we'll get even 10 DLC characters.

As an example, Brawl's CSS is designed to expand and hold upto 50 slots, despite the planned roster being nowhere near that number.

Who knows what Nintendo is planning with this DLC, I'm not saying that there could be 14 more slots but I'm only keeping this evidence in mind.

 

[Dhragen]

What about summoning a jupiter djinn for up b recovery? he can't use wind psynergy, but djinns for sure.

 

[Amberloo]

Isaac can learn the Gale series of psynergy through the Ninja class, and it's exactly identical to Ivan's Whirlwind. Not to mention, Ness and Lucas can't learn PSI Fire/Freeze/Thunder but they use them anyway to showcase other characters' PSI moves.

 

[Coaltergeist]

Let's just make Meggido as Up B and 'B' done with it (He leaps up, remember?)

Judgement can be final Smash. OP Isaac FTW!

You know how the summons in the game have the effect that they do more damage the healthier the opponent is? Maybe that could be worked in; ie. his final smash does more knockback at lower %s

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I found a interesting read on this blog were it showed all the evidence pointing to DLC in smash, but what really caught my eye was the extra all star stages for 7-9 on Wii U, so there's the possibility of a total of 16 DLC characters including Mewtwo & Lucas so there could be 14 slots left. What do you guys think?
https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/10/was-dlc-planned-for-smash-4/

He brings up a lot of good points. I find the "stage clear" one in All Star mode particularly interesting. I'm not sure I'd go as far as 14 more dlc characters though.

If all three "stage clear"s are added to All Star mode then you would expect at least 6 dlc characters at a bare minimum (2 characters in each fight) and even that would look strange so it would probably be more like 3 or 4 characters in each fight.

So I suppose 12-16 dlc characters may not be THAT farfetched. It's definitely odd.

 

[Bassoonist]

12 - 16 DLC characters is, sorry to say, absurd.

In addition to Mewtwo and Lucas, three is optimistic, but I'd say hopefully probable. I wouldn't put my money on anything beyond that.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Oh I agree 12-16 definitely feels impossible and over the top, but that isn't what the three extra "stage clear"s on the 3DS version would seem to suggest. You would think if we were getting 5 dlc characters we'd get one extra All Star stage (stage clear 7) that included all five of them. That would be pretty simple, straightforward and there would not be a need for "stage clear 8" or "stage clear 9".

I suppose there is the possibility that these extra stages will be unusual in some way, like if they added a game of break the targets or race to the finish but I don't think that would be in keeping with the theme of All Star mode. It's all about the fighters.

It just seems like a huge contradiction against our current expectations. I can't just ignore that.

 

[Nauzgo]

Lucas, Mewtwo, Isaac, King K.Rool and the other 8 veterans wouldn't be that unlikely imo.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

16 DLC is really improbable mess. I mean, I'd love my characters, but that'd be so going to quantity over quality-thing that Smash 4 would kinda be bloated with character imbalance.

 

[Bassoonist]

16 DLC is really improbable mess. I mean, I'd love my characters, but that'd be so going to quantity over quality-thing that Smash 4 would kinda be bloated with character imbalance.

I don't care too much about "character imbalance" personally, I just think it's absurd that a company would release that much DLC. Maybe if this was like The Sims (don't get me started with that series -_-), but Nintendo has never operated anywhere near like that (well, not to my knowledge anyway). And if they were going to release that many characters, I would think that they'd release them in bundles, but they've already started releasing the characters individually.

And if one gets excited at the prospect of that many characters, remember that even in Mario Kart 8 where the characters are very simple to make, they still included characters like Tanooki Mario and Cat Peach in the DLC instead of characters people actually wanted. -_-

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

For Isaac's recovery, he could create a rock tornado around him, propelling him and hitting enemies several times.

As for DLC characters, I think that we will probably have about 6 total.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Oh I agree 12-16 definitely feels impossible and over the top, but that isn't what the three extra "stage clear"s on the 3DS version would seem to suggest. You would think if we were getting 5 dlc characters we'd get one extra All Star stage (stage clear 7) that included all five of them. That would be pretty simple, straightforward and there would not be a need for "stage clear 8" or "stage clear 9".

I suppose there is the possibility that these extra stages will be unusual in some way, like if they added a game of break the targets or race to the finish but I don't think that would be in keeping with the theme of All Star mode. It's all about the fighters.

It just seems like a huge contradiction against our current expectations. I can't just ignore that.

I was thinking about this some more and I thought of another, less wild possibility.

When Mewtwo releases next week he'll either end up pushing a character into an all star battle on their own or (and I think one this is more likely) they'll shuffle the fighters around. Either way we're going to get an extra round in All Star mode.

It's possible they included three more rounds so that each round would have less fighters in them by the end of dlc, in order to keep a similar level of difficulty. (Since it'll now have more rounds to fight through)

 

[Arcadenik]

I just wish that the Djinn are like Dragoon items... collect two, three, or four of the same Djinn type and it automatically summons a Final Smash-like Summon like Kirin, Cybele, Atlanta, and Nereid. You don't know if it's gonna require 2, 3, or 4 Djinn because it's random... so keep collecting Djinn until it automatically summons a Summon.