Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[Storm Eagle]

I still haven't decided if the leak is true or not. I will just wait for our savior Sakurai to reveal Wario or Ness soon. Then we will know if Isaac still has a chance. :-)

 

[Skyblade12]

Yeah, it does stink to be Felix. Even in Dark Dawn no one cares about him. No one even mentions him.

I'm pretty sure he shows up in the encyclopedia, and mentioned that no one liked him because he set out to break all the teachings and stuff, rather than to save the world. Good outcome, horrible motivations.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Isn't that 7 Mars, 2 Venus?

Woops! Yes you are quite right - thank you for pointing that out. Chaos Lord for Matthew is indeed 7 Mars 2 Venus - for Fire Adepts, it's 7 Venus 2 Mars

I sure hope you're right - I think this is Isaac's last chance at being a playable character in Smash. He should have definitely been playable in Brawl at least...

Ah. Thank you. I kinda want to keep Matt as a Slayer, but Ronin sounds really good for Tyrell.

Yeah, it does stink to be Felix. Even in Dark Dawn no one cares about him. No one even mentions him.

Slayer also works nicely for Matthew (see above for what the set up for Chaos Lord actually is for Matthew - thank you @ Skyblade12 !)
Ronin is probably my favourite Golden Sun class, if only for Demon Spear and Angel Spear - it makes the Mars Adepts so much more worthwhile to use

And yet everyone seems to love Piers in that game...strange really

 

[Skyblade12]

Slayer also works nicely for Matthew (see above for what the set up for Chaos Lord actually is for Matthew - thank you @ Skyblade12 !)
Ronin is probably my favourite Golden Sun class, if only for Demon Spear and Angel Spear - it makes the Mars Adepts so much more worthwhile to use

I tend to not mess around with a lot of the unique classes most of the time. It can be easy to lock yourself out of access to healing Psynergies due to how the Djinn have to be combined. Switching the Venus and Mars guys to Chaos Lords is usually as far as I go.

I'll try playing with some of the more unique ones this time.

And yet everyone seems to love Piers in that game...strange really

I replace Piers with Mia ASAP.

The best thing about Piers is Diamond Berg (which admittedly looks awesome). If I could, I'd give that attack to Isaac to pair with Oddyssey and Planetary.

 

[_Sheik]

Yeah, it does stink to be Felix. Even in Dark Dawn no one cares about him. No one even mentions him.

I reckon someone on Gamefaqs has posted the crazy theory that "Felix = High Empyror".

 

[Aureola]

I tend to not mess around with a lot of the unique classes most of the time. It can be easy to lock yourself out of access to healing Psynergies due to how the Djinn have to be combined. Switching the Venus and Mars guys to Chaos Lords is usually as far as I go.

I'll try playing with some of the more unique ones this time.



I replace Piers with Mia ASAP.

The best thing about Piers is Diamond Berg (which admittedly looks awesome). If I could, I'd give that attack to Isaac to pair with Oddyssey and Planetary.

I haven't really ever taken them out of their default classes. I just felt like trying something different this time.

I reckon someone on Gamefaqs has posted the crazy theory that "Felix = High Empyror".

What.

 

[Skyblade12]

I reckon someone on Gamefaqs has posted the crazy theory that "Felix = High Empyror".

Well, in addition to the problems of why the Tuaparing would ever put him as there leader, there's the major problem in that I can't see Felix trusting Alex again. Especially not with Alex being an outsider who still turns out to have treacherous plans. If Alex and Felix shared a goal, maybe, but there is no sense of trust between Alex and the Tuaparaing, so I really can't see it at all. Felix would need a very good reason.

I do wish we had more real plot in Dark Dawn, though. I wanted to find out about Alex and Veriti, as well as what his plans are. I wanted to find out how the Tuaparing fit in with the Psynergy Vortices and the Mourning Moon. I wanted to see what Alex's plan to recover the rest of the energy of the Golden Sun would consist of.

So much left unanswered.

 

[Aureola]

Well, in addition to the problems of why the Tuaparing would ever put him as there leader, there's the major problem in that I can't see Felix trusting Alex again. Especially not with Alex being an outsider who still turns out to have treacherous plans. If Alex and Felix shared a goal, maybe, but there is no sense of trust between Alex and the Tuaparaing, so I really can't see it at all. Felix would need a very good reason.

I do wish we had more real plot in Dark Dawn, though. I wanted to find out about Alex and Veriti, as well as what his plans are. I wanted to find out how the Tuaparing fit in with the Psynergy Vortices and the Mourning Moon. I wanted to see what Alex's plan to recover the rest of the energy of the Golden Sun would consist of.

So much left unanswered.

Yeah, the plot is my biggest problem with Dark Dawn. It seems like the plot didn't really go anywhere until the Grave Eclipse. And the psynergy vortexes never came up after Konpa Ruins, and then just randomly showed up at the end.

Also, have you noticed that some of the characters are just there? They don't actually add anything. Let's see:

Matthew, Karis, and Tyrell: they kinda started the whole plot, so they're fine.

Reif: technically, he's the reason the Grave Eclipse happened. Seriously though, he adds nothing to the plot.

Amiti: we all know who his dad is, and that had better show up later. He's fine.

Sveta: plot at the end kinda revolves around her.

Eoleo: doesn't really add anything, but they are riding around in his ship. He can be in the party if he wants to. They won't say anything in fear of getting kicked off.

Himi: absolutely no point.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yeah, the plot is my biggest problem with Dark Dawn. It seems like the plot didn't really go anywhere until the Grave Eclipse. And the psynergy vortexes never came up after Konpa Ruins, and then just randomly showed up at the end.

Also, have you noticed that some of the characters are just there? They don't actually add anything. Let's see:

Matthew, Karis, and Tyrell: they kinda started the whole plot, so they're fine.

Reif: technically, he's the reason the Grave Eclipse happened. Seriously though, he adds nothing to the plot.

Amiti: we all know who his dad is, and that had better show up later. He's fine.

Sveta: plot at the end kinda revolves around her.

Eoleo: doesn't really add anything, but they are riding around in his ship. He can be in the party if he wants to. They won't say anything in fear of getting kicked off.

Himi: absolutely no point.

It's obvious, to me at least, that Dark Dawn was supposed to lead into another game in the series, but will it ever happen? Only time will tell.

 

[Skyblade12]

It's obvious, to me at least, that Dark Dawn was supposed to lead into another game in the series, but will it ever happen? Only time will tell.

The big problem is, unlike the first two, Dark Dawn wasn't built into another game.

Golden Sun and Lost Age started as a single game, but got too big for its britches, so they split it up. Dark Dawn never had a follow up being worked on, possibly not even one written. It banked way too hard on having a sequel. Almost all of its main plot points were abandoned in the hope that they would have another game or two to finish up the story with. Unfortunately, that left a lot of fans just feeling unsatisfied, especially since there was no sequel already on the way.

The multi-game nature of it may have been great for the first games, but of all the formulae that the series needed to move on from, that was the most critical. Trying to recreate that format is, in my opinion, more responsible for Dark Dawn's negative reception than anything else.

 

[SonicLink125]

Yeah, the plot is my biggest problem with Dark Dawn. It seems like the plot didn't really go anywhere until the Grave Eclipse. And the psynergy vortexes never came up after Konpa Ruins, and then just randomly showed up at the end.

Also, have you noticed that some of the characters are just there? They don't actually add anything. Let's see:

Matthew, Karis, and Tyrell: they kinda started the whole plot, so they're fine.

Reif: technically, he's the reason the Grave Eclipse happened. Seriously though, he adds nothing to the plot.

Amiti: we all know who his dad is, and that had better show up later. He's fine.

Sveta: plot at the end kinda revolves around her.

Eoleo: doesn't really add anything, but they are riding around in his ship. He can be in the party if he wants to. They won't say anything in fear of getting kicked off.

Himi: absolutely no point.

I honestly felt like Amiti, Eoleo, and Himi were for nostalgia reasons. I say that because they come from 3 well known people in TLA. Himi's only excuse being there was that she had that third eye that you needed to continue on. Nothing more. I do find her fighting style unique as she is the only one that does not jump to attack. She has to run up to the enemy, then attack, and then run back into the group. I don't know about you guys, but I find that amusing.

Regardless, I liked the characters. What hurts Dark Dawn the most is that is is compared to the original two way too much. If we get a sequel, I bet it will help DD a lot more. And if Isaac is confirmed playable, DD (and GS & TLA on VC) sales will go up and hopefully promote a sequel. The one we need!

My friend and I discussed before how Felix is probably taking care of certain things with Piers and that we will see them in the next game and finally explore the East side and how that has grown. Plus, Rief's sister will be there too. So, that's a new character to look forward to using. Teleport! Yay!

Am I the only one who loves this song when first heard?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfr18wCmWdg

 

[Skyblade12]

I honestly felt like Amiti, Eoleo, and Himi were for nostalgia reasons. I say that because they come from 3 well known people in TLA. Himi's only excuse being there was that she had that third eye that you needed to continue on. Nothing more. I do find her fighting style unique as she is the only one that does not jump to attack. She has to run up to the enemy, then attack, and then run back into the group. I don't know about you guys, but I find that amusing.

Why Himi, though? Why not Takeru?

The extra characters just felt tacked on. In the first games, you had an entire game to get to know Isaac's party. You knew them, you loved them. When you got to Lost Age, there was a bit of readjustment, but you got those tiny little nods to the other party all throughout the game. When you got back together, it was glorious, because you had already gotten to know both groups of heroes. You could pick and choose your favorites. You could finally put Jenna and Isaac together, etcetera.

With Dark Dawn, you didn't get any of that connection. Himi, especially, is just thrown in at the last minute. Eoleo isn't much better. You hear about Eoleo early on, but then you go through like three dungeons just to break him out. All missed opportunity for him to be playable and adding to discussions.

Everyone should have joined much earlier. Sveta should have joined up as soon as you crossed the cloud passage. Eoleo should have been broken out immediately after, and then Himi should have joined you as you were about to trigger the Grave Eclipse, forwarning you of danger. You needed time to get to know them. Instead, it's just like "Lost Age had eight characters, we need to as well".

Regardless, I liked the characters. What hurts Dark Dawn the most is that is is compared to the original two way too much. If we get a sequel, I bet it will help DD a lot more. And if Isaac is confirmed playable, DD (and GS & TLA on VC) sales will go up and hopefully promote a sequel. The one we need!

No, what hurts Dark Dawn the most is that it wasn't a sequel. It didn't answer ANY of the plot threads left hanging by Lost Age. We learned nothing new about Isaac, nothing new about the Golden Sun, nothing new about Alex, next to nothing about how are party members went on afterward. Everything that people got Dark Dawn in order to see just WASN'T THERE.

Then, to top it all off, we got so little of Dark Dawn's own plot as well. Psynergy Vortices? Setup for a plot point the game didn't get to. Tuaparing? Setup for a plot point the game didn't get to. Dark and Light Adepts? Setup for a plot point the game didn't get to. Alex as mysterious masked man? Setup for a plot point the game didn't get to.

On and on. This is why they should not have banked on a sequel. It took too long to get to Dark Dawn, they needed to answer some questions.

My friend and I discussed before how Felix is probably taking care of certain things with Piers and that we will see them in the next game and finally explore the East side and how that has grown. Plus, Rief's sister will be there too. So, that's a new character to look forward to using. Teleport! Yay!

Am I the only one who loves this song when first heard?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfr18wCmWdg

Dark Dawn did have some great music, but it needed so much more.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I really like to compare Isaac to Pit.

Pit was playable in Brawl, but I never really thought much about them bringing that series back and that series hasn't had a game for 20 years before Uprising.

Golden Sun hasn't gone that long without a game, in fact I doubt any series will beat that record.

This is why I like to compare Kid Icarus and Golden Sun as being similar, Pit was a trophy in Melee, kind of like how Isaac was one in Brawl, then he was made playable in Brawl, I'm hoping the same fate happens to Isaac, after all he would represent a GBA classic, much like Pit represented a NES classic.

Also as for a Golden Sun stage, don't expect something that spectacular, I'm expecting something similar to the Kid Icarus stage in Brawl, in which had terrible music.

 

[LasermasterA]

I really like to compare Isaac to Pit.

Pit was playable in Brawl, but I never really thought much about them bringing that series back and that series hasn't had a game for 20 years before Uprising.

Golden Sun hasn't gone that long without a game, in fact I doubt any series will beat that record.

This is why I like to compare Kid Icarus and Golden Sun as being similar, Pit was a trophy in Melee, kind of like how Isaac was one in Brawl, then he was made playable in Brawl, I'm hoping the same fate happens to Isaac, after all he would represent a GBA classic, much like Pit represented a NES classic.

Also as for a Golden Sun stage, don't expect something that spectacular, I'm expecting something similar to the Kid Icarus stage in Brawl, in which had terrible music.

Yea and after his appearance in Brawl, we received Kid Icarus: Uprising! We need Isaac in Smash Bros. followed by another game with Isaac in the lead Plus the Golden Stage will have epic music. I have loved all of the games and all of them have awesome music!

Why Himi, though? Why not Takeru?

The extra characters just felt tacked on. In the first games, you had an entire game to get to know Isaac's party. You knew them, you loved them. When you got to Lost Age, there was a bit of readjustment, but you got those tiny little nods to the other party all throughout the game. When you got back together, it was glorious, because you had already gotten to know both groups of heroes. You could pick and choose your favorites. You could finally put Jenna and Isaac together, etcetera.

With Dark Dawn, you didn't get any of that connection. Himi, especially, is just thrown in at the last minute. Eoleo isn't much better. You hear about Eoleo early on, but then you go through like three dungeons just to break him out. All missed opportunity for him to be playable and adding to discussions.

Everyone should have joined much earlier. Sveta should have joined up as soon as you crossed the cloud passage. Eoleo should have been broken out immediately after, and then Himi should have joined you as you were about to trigger the Grave Eclipse, forwarning you of danger. You needed time to get to know them. Instead, it's just like "Lost Age had eight characters, we need to as well".

No, what hurts Dark Dawn the most is that it wasn't a sequel. It didn't answer ANY of the plot threads left hanging by Lost Age. We learned nothing new about Isaac, nothing new about the Golden Sun, nothing new about Alex, next to nothing about how are party members went on afterward. Everything that people got Dark Dawn in order to see just WASN'T THERE.

Then, to top it all off, we got so little of Dark Dawn's own plot as well. Psynergy Vortices? Setup for a plot point the game didn't get to. Tuaparing? Setup for a plot point the game didn't get to. Dark and Light Adepts? Setup for a plot point the game didn't get to. Alex as mysterious masked man? Setup for a plot point the game didn't get to.

On and on. This is why they should not have banked on a sequel. It took too long to get to Dark Dawn, they needed to answer some questions.

Dark Dawn did have some great music, but it needed so much more.

Yea Dark Dawn didn't really solve the plot inconsistencies introduced in the Lost Age and wasn't much of a sequel. It was like an incomplete stand alone game from a story perspective. We never got to find out much about Alex, or the words the Wise One spoke about Isaac in the end. Plus we hardly got to see any of the older members with only Isaac and Garet shown while the others are just mentioned in the Sun Sagas and the encyclopaedia.

Plus 2 out of 8 characters,the ones you mentioned seem completely forced while some of the others are still insignificant compared to their counterparts in the original 2 games.

I root for Isaac because I just like him better than Matthew. Though, I will say Matt's outfit is better. Isaac's chest piece just looks... weird.

Anyway, how do you link to stuff from Deviantart? It won't show up in the post for me.

I just link the image url to make it show and then copy the web url of the webpage and link to the user's name.

By the way I just love the class setup option in Golden Sun. My first playthrough I stuck to mono elemental classes but afterwards I realized the value that the mixed classes brought to the game on my subsequent playthroughs. Plus @ Skyblade12 , sometimes these setups are better at summoning. In cases where you are using the Djinn in battle then summoning, it gets easier to use multiple Djinn of the same type without taking huge number of turns when you have mono elemental classes. It is just this has to be managed more so that you don't mess up.

I agree with the positive sentiment here that Isaac is just being held off for now and sooner or later will be revealed as an awesome playable character with an epic reveal trailer. I mean he is just too good to be ignored, right Sakurai?

Here's to Isaac for Smash4 !

 

[CheckmateChuck]

Motoi Sakuraba's "Main Compositions" column on the music page doesn't even mention Golden Sun. I honestly do not know how to feel about this.
Especially with the mention of Dark Souls, which is not even a Nintendo game.
Welp, maybe I'm just overintellecualising here.

 

[Skyblade12]

Motoi Sakuraba's "Main Compositions" column on the music page doesn't even mention Golden Sun. I honestly do not know how to feel about this.
Especially with the mention of Dark Souls, which is not even a Nintendo game.
Welp, maybe I'm just overintellecualising here.

I don't know. They mention that &$@#% Xenonlade Chronicles as well.

I give up. Nintendo's forgotten about Golden Sun, and the games that made them great throughout their long and illustrious history. Everything is catering to the new and fresh. Smash Bros. is dead to me.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Woah woah guys, calm down. I don't think we should suppose what is relevant for Nintendo or not depending on what titles they feature when it comes to composers.

I think it's just their most "well-known" series they compose tracks for. After all, didn't Sakuraba compose for plenty more series than what's being featured? (Baten Kaitos for example)

Besides, look to the bright side: we might get Golden Sun-music now that Sakuraba's back on belt again. Or hey, it might contribute to something much more.

 

[Storm Eagle]

I don't know. They mention that &$@#% Xenonlade Chronicles as well.

I give up. Nintendo's forgotten about Golden Sun, and the games that made them great throughout their long and illustrious history. Everything is catering to the new and fresh. Smash Bros. is dead to me.

Wow, that really sucks that they don't even mention the game.

 

[Skyblade12]

Why would I calm down? Nintendo is catering everything in this game to the latest and greatest. It's forgotten the roots that were what drove this franchise.

What's worse, all this thread has done is get my hopes up for a character i never really thought would have a chance, and now it looks like I was right to think so. Nintendo doesn't give a damn about Golden Sun. Isaac's out, and there's nothing left to this forum but the arrogant twits who have their "confirmed" characters and the frelling leak obsessed people who you can't hold a decent conversation with.

Golden Sun is dead, and I just want to find a place to curl up and forget I ever dreamed it had a future.

 

[Staarih]

Maybe they are just some of his more known, recent pieces of work? I mean, I don't see Tales of series music or Dark Souls music making it into Smash, but Sakuraba is still in the list for a reason. It's still better than him not being there at all haha, but yeah, I don't really know what to think.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm not assuming one way or another about Isaac until it is all over.

 

[Turmalinium]

Did you notice that the Arrangement Supervisors are arranging tracks that were not originally composed by them?
I guess that means that we cant be sure that the soundtrack of a game is in smash4 just because the composer arranges some tracks for smash4 even if the game is mentioned in "Main Compositions".

 

[Skyblade12]

Did you notice that the Arrangement Supervisors are arranging tracks that were not originally composed by them?
I guess that means that we cant be sure that the soundtrack of a game is in smash4 just because the composer arranges some tracks for smash4 even if the game is mentioned in "Main Compositions".

I'm really not following you here.

Man, this game had great music. Why did Nintendo forget?

 

[Leafeon523]

Guys, stop fretting about the music. There are all kinds of series being represented. Given the surge of popularity from Dark Souls, it makes sense that it was listed over Golden Sun. And if you are arguing that Isaac has no chance because there's no musician, then you are also saying that there is a chance for a One piece and Idolmaster rep, which is just being silly.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Guys, stop fretting about the music. There are all kinds of series being represented. Given the surge of popularity from Dark Souls, it makes sense that it was listed over Golden Sun. And if you are arguing that Isaac has no chance because there's no musician, then you are also saying that there is a chance for a One piece and Idolmaster rep, which is just being silly.

Yeah, seriously, Dark Souls is more popular and more well known than Golden Sun, it does make more sense for them to display it over Golden Sun. That doesn't really mean anything about Golden Sun not getting any representation.

 

[Skyblade12]

Guys, stop fretting about the music. There are all kinds of series being represented. Given the surge of popularity from Dark Souls, it makes sense that it was listed over Golden Sun. And if you are arguing that Isaac has no chance because there's no musician, then you are also saying that there is a chance for a One piece and Idolmaster rep, which is just being silly.

No, I'm saying Isaac has no chance because he never had a chance. He's just being ported over straight as an AT. Sakurai isn't even thinking about him, because Nintendo doesn't give a damn about the "failed" franchise that is Golden Sun.

They disconfirmed Ghirahim right before showing his main theme on the site, which would lead to people getting hyped. But did they disconfirm Shulk? Nope, and the Xenoblade credits are one of the first damn things on that list. Is Golden Sun mentioned there? Nope. We don't need a disconfirm, because there is nothing to get us hyped.

Because there has NEVER been ANYTHING to get us hyped. That's why we've survived without a disconfirmation for so long. No items, no music, no stages, no ATs, nothing. Nintendo has carted Golden Sun away into some vault somewhere and forgotten about it. I doubt Isaac's AT will even be remodeled before showing up in Smash 4. Hell, I'm not even sure Sakurai's put Isaac's AT in the game. It'd be the most thought he has given this franchise the entire time.

 

[Leafeon523]

No, I'm saying Isaac has no chance because he never had a chance. He's just being ported over straight as an AT. Sakurai isn't even thinking about him, because Nintendo doesn't give a damn about the "failed" franchise that is Golden Sun.

They disconfirmed Ghirahim right before showing his main theme on the site, which would lead to people getting hyped. But did they disconfirm Shulk? Nope, and the Xenoblade credits are one of the first damn things on that list. Is Golden Sun mentioned there? Nope. We don't need a disconfirm, because there is nothing to get us hyped.

Because there has NEVER been ANYTHING to get us hyped. That's why we've survived without a disconfirmation for so long. No items, no music, no stages, no ATs, nothing. Nintendo has carted Golden Sun away into some vault somewhere and forgotten about it. I doubt Isaac's AT will even be remodeled before showing up in Smash 4. Hell, I'm not even sure Sakurai's put Isaac's AT in the game. It'd be the most thought he has given this franchise the entire time.

There's no items or anything yet because we haven't seen a representative yet. It's not we have seen a Rhythm heaven stage after all. You are being very hasty with your speculation, especially because you don't believe the leak.

But the Isaac fanbase is unique in the regard that there is rarely anything to hype over. And honestly, that's why I love it. At least GS and TLA have been ported to VC during smash speculation.

 

[Skyblade12]

I'm sorry. I'm being overly negative, I'm draining everyone's fun. I know. I'm sorry.

I'm just completely out of hope at this point.

 

[Arteen]

I'm sorry. I'm being overly negative, I'm draining everyone's fun. I know. I'm sorry.

I'm just completely out of hope at this point.

You're pretty much saying exactly what I'm feeling right now.

It might not mean anything, but the lack of the music credit is very disheartening. Even Brawl's composer list credited Golden Sun.

 

[Aureola]

Guys, some of the composers haven't done any Nintendo games. And it may only be the people doing the arrangements.

I mean, do you see Koji Kondo on the list? No, and I doubt that the games would have any tracks not originally made by him.

 

[ferioku]

What do you guys think the most popular assist trophies were in brawl? IMO, I think the most popular were between Saki, Isaac, Lil Mac and Lynn, that's what most people were hyped about from what I remembered.

 

[Bassoonist]

Yeah, that's a pretty big blow. It is the kind of thing which could mean nothing in the end, but I just can't see why they wouldn't list Golden Sun here, but yet they did in Brawl? Golden Sun had a release in between Brawl and SSB4.

Now I'm just hoping so hard that the leak is fake. Not even because of Isaac. At this point I'm not really expecting him anymore. I just want a decent roster aside from that.

 

[ferioku]

Yeah, that's a pretty big blow. It is the kind of thing which could mean nothing in the end, but I just can't see why they wouldn't list Golden Sun here, but yet they did in Brawl? Golden Sun had a release in between Brawl and SSB4.

Now I'm just hoping so hard that the leak is fake. Not even because of Isaac. At this point I'm not really expecting him anymore. I just want a decent roster aside from that.

Don't lose hope =/ anything can happen, look at Robin. Even though I have my doubt's, nothing is impossible.

I agree with that leak, it's disguising... 3 Clone's added? Honestly this is the worst Sakurai could do and I hope it's fake!

 

[Oddyesy]

Don't lose hope =/ anything can happen, look at Robin. Even though I have my doubt's, nothing is impossible.

I agree with that leak, it's disguising... 3 Clone's added? Honestly this is the worst Sakurai could do and I hope it's fake!

I hope with all hopes that it's fake as well, but I've seen some pretty good arguments supporting it.

You guys are making me feel bad, but we don't know anything until the game is out.

 

[Bassoonist]

Don't lose hope =/ anything can happen, look at Robin. Even though I have my doubt's, nothing is impossible.

I agree with that leak, it's disguising... 3 Clone's added? Honestly this is the worst Sakurai could do and I hope it's fake!

It's not just the clones. It's the fact that there is a third Kid Icarus character while more prominent series like DK and Metroid are left with the two they've had since Brawl. I don't care who in the world that third Kid Icarus character is (a clone or not) they most certainly have pushed the boundary too much and Sakurai's bias will have gone so far that I can't take him seriously anymore.

I say this not even being a fan of the DK or Metroid series, and I say this even if Isaac had been added to this leaked roster. It's a mess of a roster that could only come from Sakurai doing his own thing, not caring about avoiding bias, and ignoring not only fan requests but what is fair and right.

If only Golden Sun had been picked up by Sakurai. You can only imagine how much representation it would have then. >.>

Oh and not adding back Mewtwo but adding back Doctor Mario, that's another questionable decision.

The sad and scary thing is that based on what we have seen of the game so far, this roster is very believable. And that's why I want it struck down instantly.

 

[Aureola]

Yeah, that's a pretty big blow. It is the kind of thing which could mean nothing in the end, but I just can't see why they wouldn't list Golden Sun here, but yet they did in Brawl? Golden Sun had a release in between Brawl and SSB4.

Now I'm just hoping so hard that the leak is fake. Not even because of Isaac. At this point I'm not really expecting him anymore. I just want a decent roster aside from that.

Did they show GS music on the dojo before Isaac was shown as an assist? I missed the entire prerelease of Brawl.

And yes, that roster fails.

 

[Bassoonist]

Did they show GS music on the dojo before Isaac was shown as an assist? I missed the entire prerelease of Brawl.

And yes, that roster fails.

No. Nothing Golden Sun was ever shown before release.

(aside from the already brought up mention of Golden Sun under Motoi Sakuraba's name in the music section)

 

[Arteen]

If only Golden Sun had been picked up by Sakurai. You can only imagine how much representation it would have then. >.>

We'd have Isaac and his three party members of the first game fighting together, Ice Climbers-style.

And Felix's party as clones.

And every party member from Dark Dawn would be an assist.

 

[LasermasterA]

I'm sorry. I'm being overly negative, I'm draining everyone's fun. I know. I'm sorry.

I'm just completely out of hope at this point.

Nah its fine, everyone has their ups and downs plus some people get disappointed quickly. Don't worry.

You know for a while I was wondering why the mood of the thread suddenly dropped after I came back home, and then I saw the pic of the day. And then I went to Smashbros.com and checked out the page for myself. I think we are overreacting here guys. Sure that on Motoi Sakuraba's profile, the Golden Series is not mentioned but the Tales of Series as well Dark Soul series is mentioned. These series have not recently come to any Nintendo console. The latest "Tales" games have been on PS3 whereas Dark Souls has never been on Nintendo. They are just there as they are more recent and they are "in". More than Golden Sun, which did not emerge post Dark Dawn as expected. They just chose more recognizable names to put in his profile.

This does not in any way deconfirm Isaac. For all we know, it means nothing at all. Heck series like Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright, Chrono Trigger, Kingdom Hearts and Devil May Cry are listed under other developers. I love all these games but their listing in example music of developers does not mean they will be included. There is a 0% chance of Phoenix or a hunter, or Sora or Dante as playable. This might be just another example of Nintendo not wanting to reveal a character or them just including recent series to help the new generation cope up with their extremely "SHORT" memory. Heck a very close friend of mine finishes a game and forgets the story a week after, forget the sound composer!

I agree that the leaked roster screams bias as well as laziness at the later end of development. 3 clones would be too much and 3 representatives from KI:U would be overkill.

And as an example of trolling as some people said that Sakurai would want to include the latest game of Golden Sun. Maybe instead of including Matt as playable he makes young Isaac an AT (fully hear me out first!) and then later announces adult Isaac as a playable character. It fulfills the demands of people to get Dark Dawn representation as well as give us Isaac. Plus Sakurai gets to troll.

In the end, cheer up guys, its not the end of race. Isaac still stands a chance!

Keep looking guys, otherwise you will miss the beautiful sunrise

 

[Aureola]

Yes, the fact that Kingdom Hearts (which as much as I want it to won't be in the game because of stupid Square Enix (or Disney, don't know who they need to ask) and Dark Souls (never been on a Nintendo console) are listed when I doubt they'll be represented says something.

It also shows Final Fantasy XIII. There is no way that will get anything.