Is this "Din's Fire" technique possible?

[Eagle]

Hi, I've started to main Zelda and I noticed that when you use your Din's fire and you get hit, the Din's fire continues but is uncontrollable and it eventually blows up.

I did this accidentally. I can't remember how but I managed to do a Din's Fire + Lightning kick combo and it looked awesome because they were on fire instead. ^_^

Anyways, I was just wondering if it's possible to have keep Din's fire out without controlling it so your free to move and the dins fire is still active. (Without getting hit.)

If it's not possible, do you think he will be a good buff for Zelda players in Brawl?

 

[Luthien]

It's not possible to be able to control Zelda with Din's Fire out period. This is because you are either:
1) Contolling Din's Fire's direction (actually using the move normally)
2) Flailing madly through the air (the enemy just punished you)
3) Getting off the ground (you've just finished number 2)

So yeah, the only control of Zelda you have while using this move is DIing when she gets sent flying.

P.S. If you get hit too early while using Din's Fire, it won't explode at all (don't remember exactly what frames).

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Here's an idea. Let go of the move early. It'll explode closer to you, and you'll be in lag for a shorter amount of time. It only works if you anticipate them running into it or something...

 

[Luthien]

Also, if you want to be extra defensive, you can short-hop backwards and immediately fire Din's Fire at you opponent. The momentum of the move will send you farther backwards as the fireball moves forwards, creating more space between you, your enemy, and the fireball.

This can also be reversed if you wish to be more aggressive. Short hop towards the enemy and cast Din's Fire if the enemy is too far away to Din's Fire-Fair combo, and the momentum will carry you towards the enemy, and when it hits them towards you (if it explodes slightly behind them) you can immediately fair, and not waste time running towards them.

Just a couple of thoughts. Don't use this all the time, though. It's still Din's Fire; it will ALWAYS leave you wide open.

 

[Darkmusician]

I do some combos with Din's Fire in my video. Hopefully that'll give you some ideas. I personally like Din's Fire. =w=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlOK6EgFgUY

 

[Buh]

Din's Fire is a pretty bad move. Really, against hyper aggressive opponents that aren't Captain Falcon or Fox, you can throw it in front of them while they approach you and hit them with it, getting you a free fair.

You can also use it to edgeguard, Din's Fire hits them towards the stage and stuns them and then you can fair. It looks pretty, but repeated up-B on the edge and ledge-hopped fair or drop down fair works much better.

You could use it as a mindgame. But it's pretty much a worthless move.

 

[Darkmusician]

Din's Fire is a pretty bad move. Really, against hyper aggressive opponents that aren't Captain Falcon or Fox, you can throw it in front of them while they approach you and hit them with it, getting you a free fair.

You can also use it to edgeguard, Din's Fire hits them towards the stage and stuns them and then you can fair. It looks pretty, but repeated up-B on the edge and ledge-hopped fair or drop down fair works much better.

You could use it as a mindgame. But it's pretty much a worthless move.

Uhhhh Din's Fire isn't Zelda's best move but it's far from worthless.

 

[Buh]

Uhhhh Din's Fire isn't Zelda's best move but it's far from worthless.

It's uses are typically worse than that of other moves.

Don't get me wrong. You can use it as a mindgame. But the move isn't good.

 

[Darkmusician]

It's uses are typically worse than that of other moves.

Don't get me wrong. You can use it as a mindgame. But the move isn't good.

Then I guess it's a good thing that my strategy is 20% tech skill and 80% mindgames.

^_0>

 

[Buh]

Then I guess it's a good thing that my strategy is 20% tech skill and 80% mindgames.

^_0>

Tech skill with Zelda?

Zelda is 80% mindgames. You can't beat any sort of even half-decent Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Falcon, or Ganon player without mindgames.

Unless you use her Down-B. >_>

 

[Darkmusician]

Tech skill with Zelda?

Zelda is 80% mindgames. You can't beat any sort of even half-decent Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Falcon, or Ganon player without mindgames.

Unless you use her Down-B. >_>

Hey wat u laughing at. lolz Nah seriously, I'm as technical with her as I need to be.

I agree that she needs mindgames against any char. Specially the uppers but even against low tiers mindgames are a constant.

Down B is not my cup of tea. lolz =w=

 

[Buh]

I only use Sheik when I need to edge guard Hylian's Samus. Otherwise, I'm exclusively. Zelda.

 

[Darkmusician]

I only use Sheik when I need to edge guard Hylian's Samus. Otherwise, I'm exclusively. Zelda.

Very good. :]

Edgeguarding Samus with Zelda is fun too. Although I'm sure it's much easier with needles.

 

[Iris]

Din's fire is usually guaranteed to get you punished, but it can be sacrifical at times. Short hopping and doing a close range Din's Fire will cause it to explode in your face, so even if you get hit by an opponent, they'll get hit by Din's Fire if they're using a close-range attack. Depending on how far you get sent flying, you could use that period to get in a Fair and send them off.

But Din's Fire is mostly a mindgames move. Either force an opponent out of a possible position and punish, recover with it and use it sacrificially, or pop them towards you while they're DIing back to the stage and punish. Either way, due to its lack of speed, it's best used as a follow-up move while the opponent's busy recovering from lag or a kick to the face, and even then, there's often better options.

 

[Buh]

Very good. :]

Edgeguarding Samus with Zelda is fun too. Although I'm sure it's much easier with needles.

Definitely. I have a recorded match of my Zelda versus Hylian's Samus that I need to get online. I went exclusively Zelda, and man it was close. I won it with one stock and like 150% damage. A few times I accidentally pressed down-B (I must be terrible!) and I had to change back. It's a funny match, for sure.

 

[Zone]

If Din's fire is so useless, Then i use a useless move a bit too frequently. Sometimes I like to Din's fire at a wall right next to me so my opponent is like "all right Zelda's open" *Grab* (Note Din's fire can't travel cuz it is right next to you hitting a wall. lol actually yea that's a really risky mind game. But meh, Live a little.

I have a way harder time wavelanding(OFF) platforms so that I fall, with Zelda more so than when I'm Captain Falcon, or Marth and such. Zelda's Wavedash is so short you have to be nearly on the tip before you start wave-landing to fall off, so you can do something like; Run away --> Waveland on left platform(So that you fall off) Back toward ur enemy after jumping, and B-air or N-air into a l-canceled package of fun.

I also sometimes kill myself STILL after a couple months of practice with the Ledge Stall Where you (Fall BACK and immediately Up+B) Instead of the Drop down --> Jump --> Up+B(I never kill myself with this one.) The first choice is good for spacing though So I'd really like to perfect that.

But yea, normal shffl'ing and such isn't hard at all. But it's not really hard with anyone else either. Well, fox is kinda hard to shffl with consistently w/o getting worn out(For me).

but yea, no move is 100% useless, there will be a time, no matter how rare. That the move can be the best choice. Except maybe fox+Falco's f-air, yea those are pretty dang close to useless >.>;

Also you Zelda players Try some of these things I been playing with:
1.) Up+Air Shield poke:
Up+Air'ing at certain percentages depending on the enemy, can set them up for combos. One, it's already sorta difficult to time the up+air, so it can hit a standing character(Somewhat tall character), probably won't work on really short characters, I haven't tested it much. But say Peache's, Shield is diminishing a bit, and your scared to shield poke with a down-tilt, Cuz she could downsmash. or Peach keeps aiming her shield down to cover her feet. W/e the case: Try falling an upair to shield poke her head. Then immediately L-cancel Grab or something. Even if you fail, sometimes just Seeing the up+air will bait them to lower shield right after, just because they are like "wtf are you doing silly" then you just opened up a fresh cold can of Zelda with the l-cancel.

Note: may just be a flashy thing, may be a bit too risky opposed to just keeping your spacing since you have to get in close to Peach to do the up-air. But none-the less I have fun with it. (Remember: I'm only kinda recently messing with it. I still don't know how good/well it could work.) lol Hell maybe my friends just let go of shield right when the up-air hit, and I thought I was shield poking. Try it anyways ^^d

 

[Buh]

Zone, I'm starting to think you don't know how to play Zelda. >_>

Din's Fire has zero practical uses. It's only use is as a mindgame, and other moves can be used for that situation.

And the infinite stall is just pressing down on the control stick and up-B onto the ledge. It's very easy. And that stall can get blocked off by Mario and Doc.

 

[Zone]

Zone, I'm starting to think you don't know how to play Zelda. >_>

Din's Fire has zero practical uses. It's only use is as a mindgame, and other moves can be used for that situation.

And the infinite stall is just pressing down on the control stick and up-B onto the ledge. It's very easy. And that stall can get blocked off by Mario and Doc.

That's very ignorant of you.

It's only use is as a mindgame,
Key word. Use.
Thanks for agreeing with me.

And When Samus is WAY WAY Out there recovering. Your saying you have another choice for building damage that won't get you killed by being dumb and jumping out after someone like Samus or Jiggs who is recovering. Yea right. Don't say change to shiek, cuz we are talking about Zelda. this is Assuming u never change to shiek, because you want to play as Zelda. Forward+B is the best move to use vs Samus or other slow recovering people who are too far out there. Where it's too risky, and too stupid to jump WAY out there to do something. 1.) You can blow up samus bombs to keep her from recovering. Or you can hit Samus. Or w/e. But jumping WAY out there to kick is not a option.

I said All moves have their uses no matter how rare. Even if it's .00001% that the situation comes up. At some point in ssbm, one move can be better than another. There are some moves though like GAnon's Wizard punch or w/e that can truly only be useful in Teams. Unless it's on like Brinstar, and the Acid is up to level, So Marth has no ledge to grab with his Up+B and is going to be forced to land on the platform next to you. You could time a Wizard punch then, It would be a better choice than F-air, if you don't suck and know the timing. But people rarely use the punch so much, that they don't even know the timing themselves so They stay safe(Because they lack punch timing knowledge, for how rare it's used), and use F-air.

IT has it's uses sir,
It's just really uncommon.

And When I talked about using it too much. That was a joke, saying I been trying to play this game for the fun factor more, than the serious one.



EDIT:
Also You apparently don't know much about stalling or you didn't listen to me.
Back-Drop to Up+B has more spacing with the stall for say vs Fox's f-Tilt, to lure him in.

Down-drop to up+B as you say, is extremely EZ. I said this. I NEVER EVER die using this stall. I only sometimes screw up with the back drop version. Which is BETTER for stalling imo. But your character is closer to the edge, making it ezier to punish vs the other version.

Ok listen to this.
You can Up+B ledge stall --> Kick Fox. If ur Up+B hits him, it'll pop him up for a kick. Now, Fox can, simply grab the ledge, and make you fall to ur death. but you can avoid that, and even then it's still risky for him to get hit. Forward+Tilt outranges Up+B hit box, and he can hit you safely, while ur doing the Drop-Down+uP+B stall. So what you do is you Back-drop Up+B which is harder for more spacing. Now he has to get closer. Then you can switch back and pop him with the Down-drop Up+B Hit box when he gets closer.

 

[Luthien]

That's very ignorant of you.

It's only use is as a mindgame,
Key word. Use.
Thanks for agreeing with me.

Um, Zone? I agree with you one hundred percent about everything else, but Buh said PRACTICAL uses... don't get me wrong, I spam Din's Fire way too much myself, but it IS pretty impractical.

You're right about the edgeguarding Samus and Jiggs, though. I don't think it's a useless move, I just think it's too risky to use often unless you're playing someone who sucks... like me ^^'...

 

[Zone]

Um, Zone? I agree with you one hundred percent about everything else, but Buh said PRACTICAL uses... don't get me wrong, I spam Din's Fire way too much myself, but it IS pretty impractical.

You're right about the edgeguarding Samus and Jiggs, though. I don't think it's a useless move, I just think it's too risky to use often unless you're playing someone who sucks... like me ^^'...

Another Decent time to use it, is after a move you can't follow up on. Say you get a kick out of shield out. They get hit, and sent flying. Since they are sent flying, you can't follow up with ANYTHING. So might as well try and get a Din's fire chip damage attack in afterwards.

Din's fire as an approach when ur enemy has 100% control of themselves on ground, is VERY dumb, which is what you are all thinking about I'm sure(The open ground game approach-bait-spacing game). Trying to open with din's fire vs a player who has full control is a very dumb idea. And since your enemy having near full control of their character most of the match, shows how little din's fire can be used since it's useless in it's own aspect, unless ur opponent is already limited. AKA stunned and sent away, or getting someone who is recovering and has limited options.

And I was aiming my conversation at Buh, Luthien.

I know full well Din's fire's usefullness is very low, but it's not useless. If they removed Forward+B, and had NOTHING in that slot for specials. I would notice the difference, and be very sad.

Someone before Said Zelda's Down-air is useless. There are times when gimping enemy recovery, and you can't kick fast enough, or hold the edge fast enough. So you may as well Go for the Down-air on the edge.

Let's say you are able to Down-tilt Falco's Illusion recovery, he gets stunned and missed the edge. Falls a little bit, Does Up+B, and it looks like he may barely make it. Not enough time to get to the side of him to Kick. So you swiftly go for the Down-air, just as he starts flying up. He's sent just a little bit more down, cuz he Meteor cancelled. But now he's below the limit to make it back, because he was barely going to make it to begin with.

I'm sure most of you saying it's useless, just mean to say,
"It's very rare you get the chance to use that move appropriately"

 

[Luthien]

And I was aiming my conversation at Buh, Luthien.

Sorry. I have no excuse for butting into your arguement. I apoligize.

 

[Zone]

Sorry. I have no excuse for butting into your arguement. I apoligize.

No no lol, your allowed to butt in.

I just assumed for some reason. You thought I aimed that at you.

 

[Buh]

That's very ignorant of you.

It's only use is as a mindgame,
Key word. Use.
Thanks for agreeing with me.

I do believe I said "practical uses." Everything can be used as a mindgame, so then nothing would be useless. Of course, you never see Ken down-smashing with Marth, do you?

And When Samus is WAY WAY Out there recovering. Your saying you have another choice for building damage that won't get you killed by being dumb and jumping out after someone like Samus or Jiggs who is recovering. Yea right. Don't say change to shiek, cuz we are talking about Zelda. this is Assuming u never change to shiek, because you want to play as Zelda. Forward+B is the best move to use vs Samus or other slow recovering people who are too far out there. Where it's too risky, and too stupid to jump WAY out there to do something. 1.) You can blow up samus bombs to keep her from recovering. Or you can hit Samus. Or w/e. But jumping WAY out there to kick is not a option.

You're right. It's useful when Samus and Jiggs are way out there, but the correct thing to do is up-B stall until they're close enough for a bair, in which you can take advantage of invincibility frames. And no, you can't low up Samus' bomb with Din's Fire. Don't make up facts just to try and win this argument.

I said All moves have their uses no matter how rare. Even if it's .00001% that the situation comes up. At some point in ssbm, one move can be better than another. There are some moves though like GAnon's Wizard punch or w/e that can truly only be useful in Teams. Unless it's on like Brinstar, and the Acid is up to level, So Marth has no ledge to grab with his Up+B and is going to be forced to land on the platform next to you. You could time a Wizard punch then, It would be a better choice than F-air, if you don't suck and know the timing. But people rarely use the punch so much, that they don't even know the timing themselves so They stay safe(Because they lack punch timing knowledge, for how rare it's used), and use F-air.

Except that Marth can simply side-B over and over and wait for the lava to avoid a killing Warlock Punch? Down-B spike is better than that crappy B-move. Face it. Some moves have no practical use. And why the hell would Ganon or Marth counter-pick Brinstar? Are you kidding me? Din's Fire can always be substituted with a better move or set-up. Save that rare situation where you have to edge-guard Samus (and maybe Puff, but that set up is many times less likely to work). And if Samus is that far out, all you have to do is wait for her to land (or grapple), and punish her with fair. If she's gone that far out already, unless Samus is ****ing Ken, the fair will probably kill Samus.

EDIT:
Also You apparently don't know much about stalling or you didn't listen to me.
Back-Drop to Up+B has more spacing with the stall for say vs Fox's f-Tilt, to lure him in.

When you try that, Fox just has to shine you. I don't think you keep your invincibility frames, and even if you do, there's a huge change of messing up. Fox typically doesn't edge-guard with Forward-Tilt, since he has the broken *** shine.

Down-drop to up+B as you say, is extremely EZ. I said this. I NEVER EVER die using this stall. I only sometimes screw up with the back drop version. Which is BETTER for stalling imo. But your character is closer to the edge, making it ezier to punish vs the other version.

Except for, you know, invincibility frames?

Ok listen to this.
You can Up+B ledge stall --> Kick Fox. If ur Up+B hits him, it'll pop him up for a kick. Now, Fox can, simply grab the ledge, and make you fall to ur death. but you can avoid that, and even then it's still risky for him to get hit. Forward+Tilt outranges Up+B hit box, and he can hit you safely, while ur doing the Drop-Down+uP+B stall. So what you do is you Back-drop Up+B which is harder for more spacing. Now he has to get closer. Then you can switch back and pop him with the Down-drop Up+B Hit box when he gets closer.

If your up-B hits him, chances are you won't have time to kick him, because you have to still reach the ledge with it, then ledge-hop a fair. It will take too long.

Why would you want to stay farther away from the edge? "Please edge-guard me!"

I told you already. The stall is for invincibility frames. Only Doc and Mario can **** up this stall, and Fox can if you do it wrong.

 

[Hylian]

...Dins fine does not blow up Samus's bombs. Also, Din's fire does not alter my recovery at all. Samus has the hardest recovery to edgeguard in the game save maybe Jigs. What can zelda do period? Not much. Dins fire will NEVER work vs a good samus and it CANNOT destroy her bombs.

What are you people talking about? These boards are hilarious.

 

[Magus420]

I do believe I said "practical uses." Everything can be used as a mindgame, so then nothing would be useless. Of course, you never see Ken down-smashing with Marth, do you?

You're right. It's useful when Samus and Jiggs are way out there, but the correct thing to do is up-B stall until they're close enough for a bair, in which you can take advantage of invincibility frames.

I fail to see how the "correct thing to do" is to NOT use Din's when they are very far and high out and instead just go and ledgestall for a good while and wait for them to recover, when you could throw and detonate the Din's all the way out in the magnifying glass if you wanted and then still have ample time to grab the ledge/stall before they get back anyway.

You often can get the Din's going a fair amount out there already while they're still in knockback from the powerful hit that sent them out. Her high knockback moves are very hard to not DI correctly, so when they get sent far out they generally are quite high up as well. Especially on large stages like Dreamland when they get sent very high where they could just air control back to the stage, why not at least aim it off stage in their travel path to force them to use their jump early in order to avoid the Din's to leave them with less options by the time they do reach the stage for your edgeguard, instead of just stalling at the edge the entire time just waiting for them to get there, when many characters in this situation will often be able to recover over you at the edge anyway.

You seem to be seriously underestimating just how far Din's reach is both horizontally and vertically, as well as exaggerating its startup and/or downtime when compared to the length of time it takes for characters to get out of stun and even just simply coast back towards the stage to recover.


And no, while you can't hit Samus' bombs you can at least make it more difficult to get back without getting hit while they are far out off stage. When Din's is at max distance it has a much larger hitbox and isn't the easiest thing to avoid during a bombjump while in the magnifier. It's certainly harder to avoid than sitting at the edge doing nothing at all when they are nowhere near you yet.


As for the stall... Pressing away to do it instead of down doesn't retain any less invincibility than pressing down does. It only matters that you let go of the edge the 1st frame you can after grabbing it. Pressing away, however, is a bit tougher to punish if you are not frame perfect in releasing the edge when doing it since you are spaced a bit away from the edge, while pressing down to do it easier to punish if not done perfectly but the hitbox of the up-b reaches onto the stage a decent amount and is better in the offensive aspect of it.

 

[Buh]

While you can hit a recovering character with it at certain ranges, it's easier to just force a character to land on the stage by edge-hogging and ledge-hopping a fair. Zelda's edge-guarding is already decent.

I'll change what I said earlier. Against Samus, the move has a use while she is recovering. But it should be used sparingly, because if Samus is close enough to the stage, she'll punish you for it, and if she's far away enough, the move will whiff. It's safer and better to just ledge stall and then ledge-hop a fair. If Samus grapples, you simply edge-hog so that she has to land on the stage, and then you fair. If she uses her Up-B, you also edge-hog then ledge-hop a fair. It's just too risky to use Din's Fire, really.

 

[Magus420]

Din's Fire does not reach out into the magnifying glass area.

[Stuff]

I stopped reading there.

Try actually using the move before claiming its complete uselessness. It really doesn't sound like you've tried using it at all.

 

[kackamee]

Um, Zone? I agree with you one hundred percent about everything else, but Buh said PRACTICAL uses... don't get me wrong, I spam Din's Fire way too much myself, but it IS pretty impractical.

Zelda's moves can only be impractical to those who don't use it to it's full extent

 

[Buh]

I stopped reading there.

Try actually using the move before claiming its complete uselessness. It really doesn't sound like you've tried using it at all.

Yeah, my mistake. It can actually reach out into the magnifying glass area. Doesn't change my argument much, though.

 

[Magus420]

Yeah, my mistake. It can actually reach out into the magnifying glass area. Doesn't change my argument much, though.

Ok. Now could you point to the part of your argument that explains how every character in the game with the exception of Samus (since it's only usable on Samus) can go from being off in the magnifying glass when it is released at near/max distance to suddenly being close enough to the edge in the 15-20 or so frames of lag Din's has after the explosion's hitbox would be hitting to somehow disrupt your edgehog and edgeguarding as usual like if you had instead sat there and waited?

 

[Hylian]

Ok. Now could you point to the part of your argument that explains how every character in the game with the exception of Samus (since it's only usable on Samus) can go from being off in the magnifying glass when it is released at near/max distance to suddenly being close enough to the edge in the 15-20 or so frames of lag Din's has after the explosion's hitbox would be hitting to somehow disrupt your edgehog and edgeguarding as usual like if you had instead sat there and waited?

Wouldn't Din's fire just help them recover? >_>.

 

[Buh]

Ok. Now could you point to the part of your argument that explains how every character in the game with the exception of Samus (since it's only usable on Samus) can go from being off in the magnifying glass when it is released at near/max distance to suddenly being close enough to the edge in the 15-20 or so frames of lag Din's has after the explosion's hitbox would be hitting to somehow disrupt your edgehog and edgeguarding as usual like if you had instead sat there and waited?

Fox: You can just edgehog if he's that far out. If he's closer, he can just illusion, and you'll probably miss Din's Fire.

Falco: Same thing, but he can be even closer to the stage for an edgehog to work.

Marth: You can hit him, but his recovery is so predictable, why not just hit with a stronger move? Similarly, if he's far enough away to be hit by it, you can probably just edgehog. If he's closer, just stay on the edge, use the Up-B stall for invincibility frames, and if he lands on the stage, ledge hop a fair.

Sheik: Her recovery is such that if she's far out enough there won't be a point in doing anything but edge-hogging. If she's close enough, her invincibility frames from her up-B will prevent Din's Fire from harming her. Instead, you should just edge-hog, then ledge hop a fair if she doesn't try to sweet-spot the edge.

Peach: Might work, but her recovery is too good for Din's Fire to have any real effect. Peach can just double-jump into a float or fast fall into a float or up-B. Still better to wait for opportunities to hit her with bair.

Captain Falcon: Why would you even try it? Zelda's crappy dair kills better than Din's Fire here. Just stay on the ledge. He can't sweet spot, meaning he'll either be edge-hogged or he'll land on the stage, which sets up for ledge-hopped fair.

Ice Climbers: Not enough time to use Din's Fire if they use up-B to recover. If they use forward B, you can just space a fair or bair. Or ledge-hop one if it looks like they'll land really close to the edge.

Dr. Mario: If he's that far out, he's dead already. Just edge-hog. If he's closer, just bair or fair him, or edge-hog and ledge-hop a fair.

Jigglypuff: Not sure about this one. Jigglypuff can just rising pound to get away from it.

Mario: Might work, but his recovery isn't great. You can just wait for him to get close and fair him. His up-B sucks.

Ganondorf: While doable, I don't see why you don't just sweet spot fair or bair. He can't sweet-spot the edge. You just ledge-hop fair if he tries to go above it, and if he tries to sweet-spot it, put the controller down and laugh in his face.

Link: Fine, it might work against Link. I'd still prefer invincibility frames from ledge-stalling and then being able to bair through his up-B, though. But Din's Fire can set up Link nicely for a fair in this match-up. While he is recovering, that is.

Luigi: I don't think there's much of a point in trying. If he misfires your bair still out-prioritizes it, so you can just use that. If he's coming from below, you can just do the stall and edge-hog or just ledge-hop fair if he tries going onto the stage.

Donkey Kong: Dair can kill him. It's pitiful. Hitting him with fair is difficult, though, because of the ridiculous range of his up-B move. Din's Fire might work here.

Roy: It's like Marth's recovery but worse. Why bother?

Young Link: His up-B lacks the range of Link's, so it's much easier to punish with bair. Still, I can see it being used here. I'd still prefer fair or bair to it.

Pikachu: Good luck with that.

Yoshi: The fact that he takes 0 knockback in his double-jump effectively negates the usefulness of Din's Fire.

Zelda: Uhh, good luck hitting her with it. She gets invincibility frames when she presses up-B, and she goes ridiculously far. You should just hang on the edge and wait for her to land, then hit her with fair.

Mr. Game and Watch: Usually recovers from too low to be able to hit with Din's Fire.

Ness: Din's Fire works on Ness, but it's difficult to time (as he may up-B into himself before Din's Fire reaches him), and if your move whiffs, you might get hit. It's best to hang on the edge and ledge-hop a fair where he lands.

Bowser: Lawl, do whatever you want to Bowser. Just don't tell Gimpyfish or he'll challenge me to a money match. >_>

Kirby: It's doable.

Pichu: Good luck with this one.

Mewtwo: Doubt it. Mewtwo is very difficult to edge-guard in general. Hitting him with Din's Fire is just ridiculously difficult. You just rely on his light weight to kill him off the side. But, due to his lightweight, if you fair or bair him at around 50%, he'll be forced to land his up-B close to the edge. And that means...

In general, the problem is that if a character is far enough away to be placed into a proper Din's Fire -> Fair/Bair set up, you can probably just edge hog. If they're closer, her fair and bair are faster and more effective for edgeguarding, less likely to whiff, less likely to get her punished for whiffing, and much easier to do.

 

[Buh]

Wouldn't Din's fire just help them recover? >_>.

Not if you hit them from the left side.

 

[technomancer]

Not if you hit them from the left side.

Left side? Don't forget your relativity sir.

 

[Buh]

...

Oh, ok, you don't know what relativity is. I was confused for a second.

Sorry, Hylian.

If you're recovering from the right and I hit you from the left, it'll **** up your recovery.

If you're recovering from the left and I hit you from the right, it'll **** up your recovery.

 

[Zone]

While you can hit a recovering character with it at certain ranges, it's easier to just force a character to land on the stage by edge-hogging and ledge-hopping a fair. Zelda's edge-guarding is already decent.

I'll change what I said earlier. Against Samus, the move has a use while she is recovering. But it should be used sparingly, because if Samus is close enough to the stage, she'll punish you for it, and if she's far away enough, the move will whiff. It's safer and better to just ledge stall and then ledge-hop a fair. If Samus grapples, you simply edge-hog so that she has to land on the stage, and then you fair. If she uses her Up-B, you also edge-hog then ledge-hop a fair. It's just too risky to use Din's Fire, really.

Just as I made a bad assumption based off my memory. I *thought* I seen Captain Jack Blow up samus' bombs before, but I guess Samus just missed her own bomb off screen to avoid the hit.

But then seeing you say you can't hit someone magnified proves you based ur thoughts off assumptions like I did. So don't speak down to me when you make the same kind of mistakes.

I didn't Make Something up out of the blue to help me win. I based it off bad memory of what happened in a match I seen a long time ago.

All I'm saying is it does NOT have 0 practical use. It's impractical in ALOT of situations, but it's not 0.

What do you think about doing Din's Fire after a kick that sends them out of ur range for ANY moves. Atleast din's fire is halfway there and they can't hit you. it's either they avoid the damage or they don't. And it's perfectly safe to do after you just sent them stunned flying.

I know full well Zelda has invincibility frames when stalling. My only point is you tried to make fun of my skill or something and I felt like you implied "Wow Zone, sucks can't even do a stall" When I'm not even talking about the Down-drop stall. THe Back-drop stall is harder, and ur farther from the edge, which sometimes results in you being too far for the Up+B to cancel and regrab the edge before you fly up or right. Since Zelda dangles farther from the edge with her invincibility it's slightly safer. And don't say that tiny distance from the edge doesn't matter. Any Advantage you can give yourself is worth it, no matter how small.

Btw, the way you typed about how it works on recovering characters, you only left them with 1 scenario, and made it sound so easy to kick them or down-air them out of what they are doing to recover. You can't just Kick Luigi's Forward+B if he's expecting you to try and kick. IF he's smarth he saved his jump, and the second you go out there he'll jump to avoid your hit, and possible punish u with his F-air, or down-air. You limited the options of the recoverying people, to make down-air and f-air seem so ez to gimp them.

Also about the Acid thing I believe you said "WHy would they counter pick on brinstar?" Counterpicking isn't 100% about level advantage, as much as it is about the player knowing the level and all it's aspects and gimmicks. Some people hardly play brinstar and aren't comfortable with the odd terrain, that can occasionally screw up ur movement, or forward-B with ganon and get protected by those round barrel looking things that split the stage. So don't disregard a Very unlikely scenario, by just saying "That match up on that stage will never happen" when I'm sure it has.

Edit: The way you talk about stuff, you just put in one scenario. and you act like it's extremely easy to execute vs a smart player. Sure If I kept the Exact same rhythm with Stalling, and the Fox knows the timing to try and shine me out of it. He can surely do it. But I can change the speed, change the distance I am from the edge by back-drops and down-drops into Up+B's I can instead choose not to stall, and waveland in for a move. or come over triangle dodging. Stop limiting options. There is a counter for nearly everything, WE know this. I can't just ledge stall the whole match vs a fox, and just play that game. It'll get too easy to read, and predict when you limit ur own options. Could he shine me? of course. But I could also trick him into getting hit by a back-drop -> jump kick into stage --> regrab ledge w/o up+B'ing.

 

[Buh]

No move has literally 0 practical uses. But there is always something better to do than use Din's Fire. I've already explained this in my lengthy post above.

 

[Zone]

No move has literally 0 practical uses. But there is always something better to do than use Din's Fire. I've already explained this in my lengthy post above.

You just used the keyword "Always", that's the same thing as saying "0".

If you say "there is always a better move"

that's the same thing as saying "This move has 0 use."


EDIT: You didn't truly answer Magus' question either.
how every character in the game with the exception of Samus (since it's only usable on Samus) can go from being off in the magnifying glass when it is released at near/max distance to suddenly being close enough to the edge in the 15-20 or so frames of lag Din's has after the explosion's hitbox would be hitting to somehow disrupt your edgehog and edgeguarding as usual like if you had instead sat there and waited?

How can they get there, to the ledge, before your free to move basically. from magnifying mode -> Edge. Fox-Falco, I can truly understand Din's fire uselessness vs Their recovery. Unless of course they were magnified in the top right corner with a jump and a Up+B at their disposal. From good DI.

Nearly any character that DI's well enough to hit the upper right corner or left corner, to live, and has their jump, can make it back. And make it back well enough to land on Stage. Basically in such a scenario where your enemy DI's well, you can Din's fire, and the farthest they make it back in is half the distance from magnifying to edge. In that amount of time. You can surely regrab the edge, and do the edge-guard-hog game.

Please understand I'm not saying Din's Fire is very useful. Cuz i'm not, I'm just saying it isn't always the bottom choice of moves in the asernal. Situations can call for Din's fire to be the best choice.

 

[Luthien]

Please understand I'm not saying Din's Fire is very useful. Cuz i'm not, I'm just saying it isn't always the bottom choice of moves in the asernal. Situations can call for Din's fire to be the best choice.

Finally, someone says it. Thank you Zone. Can everybody agree on that? Because that would be nice (although, I've learned a LOT about Din's Fire info/matchup/situation/blah from this...).

 

[Zone]

Finally, someone says it. Thank you Zone. Can everybody agree on that? Because that would be nice (although, I've learned a LOT about Din's Fire info/matchup/situation/blah from this...).

lol, Din's fire is fun to play with to. Cool things can happen. But if it's a serious match, and your life depends on it. Din's fire can probably only be used in a scenario once per 2 matches. This is assuming both players play and do the best thing they can in their situation. Because knowing ur enemy's knowledge also merit's how useful it can be. It's a very useful move vs say a Peach who is waiting on a side platform off stage like Jungle Japes, Camping and wanting to pwn you on that small space with her down-smash, you can say F-that and force her to come to you with Din's Fire. Because you can get high ground on the middle platform, and easily dodge turnips that have downward momentum after being thrown, while u have control of din's direction.