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Is there any hope?

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
I believe Link and many other lower tiered characters can improve. I think many of them are woefully underdeveloped. However, I don't think they're going to win national tournaments or become top 16 spot contenders.

I don't think that's exactly an unreasonable judgment.
 

Dingding123

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
478
Location
Houston, TX
Ugh! I had just finished a long comment for this thread about an hour ago, and then site maintenance happened. :(

Long post short, link is slow but he has nice zoning tools that can help him be effective against anyone as long as the user is precise.

Anyhoo, looks like we'll just have to try our best to prove you wrong about us not likely getting into top 16 in any major tournaments, let alone 1st. I really hope we do!
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Long post short, link is slow but he has nice zoning tools that can help him be effective against anyone as long as the user is precise.
Link is slow and his moves are slow and his zoning tools don't have broken enough range to beat gayness even if he is precise.

Anyhoo, looks like we'll just have to try our best to prove you wrong about us not likely getting into top 16 in any major tournaments, let alone 1st. I really hope we do!
I won't spoil the surprise.
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
Ok so, Im going share my thoughts on why link CAN win big tournaments.

Link has a style to adapt to each and every characters advantage over him, but most link players only prefer to use one style and one set of link tricks. If we master and use them all in one match this will make things MUCH harder for the other party.

Things we should remember-

1.Link is a combo machine, he can combo most of the cast VERY well and to a good ripe killing percent. You just have to figure out the combos

2.Link can do chaingrabbing via tech chase to grab. the fall, they roll a direction, you run that way slightly and let your grab range do the rest.

3.The ftilt, has more range the tipper, beleive it. using its great range to make up for its slow wind up time is key, wd back to an incoming nair and using the ftilt, it covers a decent amount of area in front of you so it SHOULD stop most aerial approaches (Given that its a move they have committed to and cant stop) and will probably send them at the least off the stage at higher percents to set up edge guarding shenanigans.

4.His spin attack ledge hog, its fast its efficient, and remember if you need to you can ledge hop into whatever aerial you need to when your opponent is back on the stage. I.E. - Get sheik off the stage at around %100, spin edge hog, she teleports back on, Ledge hop dair, game.

Edge guarding shenanigans. Link has a lot of them, Against link when at a decent percent, NO ONE should make it back, not even DK's insanely high priority up b. SKRAAAA

"Never try to sneak up on a man with a 360 degree magical spin attack"
1.Spin spike, if your opponent recovers even a little to high, you can spin spike them, and if its at low percents, you SKRRAAAA edge hog to keep them from grabbing the ledge. This technique works very well against characters who have a hard time sweetspotting, I.E. Marth, Falcon. Sometimes if your opponent isnt ready for it you can back throw to SKRAAA them into oblivion at the edge. And if they are the type to jump right back on with an attack... you guessed it. SKRRAAAAA! remeber that links up B has a lot more range then most attacks. also, if they grow wise to it you can shield to mind game them and then skraaa oos when they come up. Also, for additional mind games remember that the hitbox on the up b extends slightly at the end of the attack and will spike. test it out to see the range on it.

2.The fitilt, They getting wise to the spin spike? dont have the time to ledge hog? The fitlt reaches under the stage and is a good way of surprising your enemy, as mentioned before it has good knock back, so it will kill them at high percents and set up for ledge hogging at lower ones. You can even stand at the very edge and catch them with it if they are recovering high, but if they do that, just skraaa them.

3.Nair, Get gimped, Watch this video, at 30 seconds in. He likes to jump right after he gets hit and when he's off the ledge. A wall was created to stop his jumping. The nair has a lot of uses, actually I wont even talk about, go read the guide on it.

4.Dtilt meteor. No one uses this, thats we should start using it more, cause you wont see a lot of link mains use it. and if you miss the meteor you will most likely pop them up and at the VERY least have to get out of harms way. but most of the time you can follow up with a variety of moves to get them back off the stage where they belong, or plant a nice dair into them. (Note this isnt very useful after cc'ing cause its so slow, edge guards are its only practical applications) Now, if they meteor cancel they will probably do so to soon and make it so they will up b past the ledge and above the stage. guess what you do....SKRAAAAA! Just but sure to wave dash backwards for the recovery's that can reach you while you stand there, like the spacies and falcon

5.Dsmash , it pops them up to a certain height depending on where you hit. and sets thing up for any aerial, the best option is probably nair or skraaa. not much more to say about it. except that it can kill if your at a stage like yoshi's story.

6.Boomerang, Yea, it can be used really well. they over shoot their up b a little bit? use the rang, to pop them up into a lovely skraaaa, the rang CAN reach under the stage when angled right. So even if they sweet spot it can work, its better against slower recovery's like fox, falco and falcon, the rang also works for foiling vertical recoveries, but most of the time skraaa is the better option for punishing those. choose wisely.

7.Bombs on the ledge. We've seen germ do it, but past that not so much. its more a fancy trick and there is usually (always imo) a better option to choose, but take out a bomb and plant on the ledge for those with big hitbox's on their recovery if you feel like loling.

8.throwing stuff at them. You've seen people get gimped by needles and turnips, link can do it to, but the best option for this is...the bow. yes you heard me right, the bow can be used to gimp recoveries. but doing so requires a lot more precision and prediction then other gimps. simply nairing off the edge is a better option for fast fallers, but if they grow wise to the nair and recover is such a way you cant use it. (Like THAT will ever happen, nair is to good) then you can surprise them by shooting off a seemingly useless arrow, they can and probably will recover afterwards so be ready with some ledge hogging or gimping. this is also one of those attacks that will make them up b above the stage sometimes.

-other stuff to throw at them, bombs and rangs, rangs usually pop them up higher so I wouldn't recommend use this one so much unless its in a manner stated above. same for bombs, but it will make them recover higher for some skraaa'ing , dtilting or more skraaa'ing . Or they will wait and try to sweetspot, in which case you just up-b to ledge hog (Or however you prefer to do it) and watch them fall.

(BTW the most efficient way to ledge hop aerials is to press away on the control stick and not down, just be sure not to di to far away from the stage or you will fall)

Getting back on stage- Link recovery is almost as good as his nair.

For now, I'll just write about recovering against fox. Cause I have done it a lot, most of this is getting around the shine, this can be solved with the air dodge to hook shot in a variety of ways.

You go off the stage
Fox comes down to shine you as you recover, you air doge up and AWAY from the stage, this way fox cant jump out of his shine directly up and spike you that way. This is where it swings in links favor, you become the edge guarder, which I've already covers, no one should get back on against link. At this point I usually waveland into a skraaaaa for fox's benefit, if he recovers to low, well, you know the drill. For info on recovering against other characters, ask skler or another more experienced link player than myself.

Grabbing- Im tired so I wont cover this to much, but most people will side step links grab and punish, thats what your waiting for, set it up so that everything looks like your going to grab them and then wait for that dodge animation to come to end (Or close to it for faster recovering characters) and then grab and punish.

ok so I think this is pretty much everything I have experience enough with to cover. but yea there are so many more link tricks, and if we just remembered how many options we had during tournaments then we would be getting a lot farther in the brackets.
 

Aisuryu

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
3
Location
Macon,Georgia
Hi guys im new to the boards but ive played link in alot of matchups against an assortment of all the tiers and i theres definitely some hope...im not nearly as good at the advanced tech skills as i should be but i get by with making LCs and proper setups for all the nifty combos and tricks ive learned-most of which use the rang not the arrow-bombs are link's turnips,with proper aiming and spamming you can fill in breaks in your combos getting some extra % before the kill shot.one such combo i found was a seven hit skraaa ending combo that went something along the lines of B-1,2,3 fire,FB,FS,DB,nair,nair,UpB the trick is always landing the last hit cause most people can di out of the whole setup but if you react quick enough you can get lucky.

As for a marth my friend has a pretty vicious marth that looks reminiscent of Ken's,not as good and more counter happy but still similar routines....aside from the tipper marth doesnt worry me if he takes to the air the rang or bombs can knock him for a loop and easily be followed with a nair tho if the rang is used an Uair is a better choice depending on the stage.

I dont have anyone in my circle that uses fox,thank god...but my biggest rival uses samus and is a beast,he tends to be overly aggressive he just also follows a strong philosophy of dont get hit and ensures it by dodging/blocking most of my counters torwards an aggressive style,for that reason i realized not only that im nowhere near where i should be with link but that link really was to slow for me.

Now i still main link but its mainly practicing and tryin to up my tech skills and be able to nail shffl's with more ease and precision...however i switched to samus and my tech skills with her are pretty decent and ive had way more fun with her bomb jump than i thought possible its got such versatility....as a result my tech skills are improving and making everything easier so im pretty confident that he has potential to be better than weve seen its just tapping into it thats the problem.
 

tehferret

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
23
Location
New York
Learn to adapt.

Link is a character that can outmaneuver pretty much everyone with enough practice and experience.
This.

If you want to learn how to use him, then learn to adapt. Main him, and go into Brawl mode and play all the characters on level 5>
 

Cherished Doll

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
3,226
Location
Fishman Island
Is there any hope for link to be a strong character? i mean i am beating all but one person in my crew and the one i can't beat says that my link has already peaded. is there any hope to be a legit player at this game? or are we all doomed to just switch to a high tier? i am aware that germ and hdl can beat alot of good people but HDL later was beaten horribly by m2k's sheik. i am a huge fan of Germ but i hear stories about how he isn't as good as he used to be is that because he is doing other things? or is link just a bad charcter.
U failed to mention J666
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Ok so, Im going share my thoughts on why link CAN win big tournaments.

Link has a style to adapt to each and every characters advantage over him, but most link players only prefer to use one style and one set of link tricks. If we master and use them all in one match this will make things MUCH harder for the other party.

Things we should remember-

1.Link is a combo machine, he can combo most of the cast VERY well and to a good ripe killing percent. You just have to figure out the combos

2.Link can do chaingrabbing via tech chase to grab. the fall, they roll a direction, you run that way slightly and let your grab range do the rest.

3.The ftilt, has more range the tipper, beleive it. using its great range to make up for its slow wind up time is key, wd back to an incoming nair and using the ftilt, it covers a decent amount of area in front of you so it SHOULD stop most aerial approaches (Given that its a move they have committed to and cant stop) and will probably send them at the least off the stage at higher percents to set up edge guarding shenanigans.

4.His spin attack ledge hog, its fast its efficient, and remember if you need to you can ledge hop into whatever aerial you need to when your opponent is back on the stage. I.E. - Get sheik off the stage at around %100, spin edge hog, she teleports back on, Ledge hop dair, game.

Edge guarding shenanigans. Link has a lot of them, Against link when at a decent percent, NO ONE should make it back, not even DK's insanely high priority up b. SKRAAAA

"Never try to sneak up on a man with a 360 degree magical spin attack"
1.Spin spike, if your opponent recovers even a little to high, you can spin spike them, and if its at low percents, you SKRRAAAA edge hog to keep them from grabbing the ledge. This technique works very well against characters who have a hard time sweetspotting, I.E. Marth, Falcon. Sometimes if your opponent isnt ready for it you can back throw to SKRAAA them into oblivion at the edge. And if they are the type to jump right back on with an attack... you guessed it. SKRRAAAAA! remeber that links up B has a lot more range then most attacks. also, if they grow wise to it you can shield to mind game them and then skraaa oos when they come up. Also, for additional mind games remember that the hitbox on the up b extends slightly at the end of the attack and will spike. test it out to see the range on it.

2.The fitilt, They getting wise to the spin spike? dont have the time to ledge hog? The fitlt reaches under the stage and is a good way of surprising your enemy, as mentioned before it has good knock back, so it will kill them at high percents and set up for ledge hogging at lower ones. You can even stand at the very edge and catch them with it if they are recovering high, but if they do that, just skraaa them.

3.Nair, Get gimped, Watch this video, at 30 seconds in. He likes to jump right after he gets hit and when he's off the ledge. A wall was created to stop his jumping. The nair has a lot of uses, actually I wont even talk about, go read the guide on it.

4.Dtilt meteor. No one uses this, thats we should start using it more, cause you wont see a lot of link mains use it. and if you miss the meteor you will most likely pop them up and at the VERY least have to get out of harms way. but most of the time you can follow up with a variety of moves to get them back off the stage where they belong, or plant a nice dair into them. (Note this isnt very useful after cc'ing cause its so slow, edge guards are its only practical applications) Now, if they meteor cancel they will probably do so to soon and make it so they will up b past the ledge and above the stage. guess what you do....SKRAAAAA! Just but sure to wave dash backwards for the recovery's that can reach you while you stand there, like the spacies and falcon

5.Dsmash , it pops them up to a certain height depending on where you hit. and sets thing up for any aerial, the best option is probably nair or skraaa. not much more to say about it. except that it can kill if your at a stage like yoshi's story.

6.Boomerang, Yea, it can be used really well. they over shoot their up b a little bit? use the rang, to pop them up into a lovely skraaaa, the rang CAN reach under the stage when angled right. So even if they sweet spot it can work, its better against slower recovery's like fox, falco and falcon, the rang also works for foiling vertical recoveries, but most of the time skraaa is the better option for punishing those. choose wisely.

7.Bombs on the ledge. We've seen germ do it, but past that not so much. its more a fancy trick and there is usually (always imo) a better option to choose, but take out a bomb and plant on the ledge for those with big hitbox's on their recovery if you feel like loling.

8.throwing stuff at them. You've seen people get gimped by needles and turnips, link can do it to, but the best option for this is...the bow. yes you heard me right, the bow can be used to gimp recoveries. but doing so requires a lot more precision and prediction then other gimps. simply nairing off the edge is a better option for fast fallers, but if they grow wise to the nair and recover is such a way you cant use it. (Like THAT will ever happen, nair is to good) then you can surprise them by shooting off a seemingly useless arrow, they can and probably will recover afterwards so be ready with some ledge hogging or gimping. this is also one of those attacks that will make them up b above the stage sometimes.

-other stuff to throw at them, bombs and rangs, rangs usually pop them up higher so I wouldn't recommend use this one so much unless its in a manner stated above. same for bombs, but it will make them recover higher for some skraaa'ing , dtilting or more skraaa'ing . Or they will wait and try to sweetspot, in which case you just up-b to ledge hog (Or however you prefer to do it) and watch them fall.

(BTW the most efficient way to ledge hop aerials is to press away on the control stick and not down, just be sure not to di to far away from the stage or you will fall)

Getting back on stage- Link recovery is almost as good as his nair.

For now, I'll just write about recovering against fox. Cause I have done it a lot, most of this is getting around the shine, this can be solved with the air dodge to hook shot in a variety of ways.

You go off the stage
Fox comes down to shine you as you recover, you air doge up and AWAY from the stage, this way fox cant jump out of his shine directly up and spike you that way. This is where it swings in links favor, you become the edge guarder, which I've already covers, no one should get back on against link. At this point I usually waveland into a skraaaaa for fox's benefit, if he recovers to low, well, you know the drill. For info on recovering against other characters, ask skler or another more experienced link player than myself.

Grabbing- Im tired so I wont cover this to much, but most people will side step links grab and punish, thats what your waiting for, set it up so that everything looks like your going to grab them and then wait for that dodge animation to come to end (Or close to it for faster recovering characters) and then grab and punish.

ok so I think this is pretty much everything I have experience enough with to cover. but yea there are so many more link tricks, and if we just remembered how many options we had during tournaments then we would be getting a lot farther in the brackets.
Having played Skler a few times, and having played against a local Link main for years, it is my strong belief that the vast majority of this is wrong, or common sense that everyone already knows.

Link sucks and has almost no potential.
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
Having played Skler a few times, and having played against a local Link main for years, it is my strong belief that the vast majority of this is wrong, or common sense that everyone already knows.

Link sucks and has almost no potential.
And thats why im glad you dont main him. Link has a lot of tricks, in all likely hood your opponent wont be able to keep up with all of them, Im not going to say your wrong, cause its 100% true that link will forever remain at a severe disadvantage against several better characters. If you main him you already know that. Thats why I have high tiers that I put just as much effort into, but playing skler a few times and a local link main, doesn't give you enough experience with link to make that assumption. Link isn't good, but he definitely doesn't suck.

Unless its consistent practice against skler, germ or hdl then its really not something that anyone here should listen to.
 

HDL

I like pork chops.
BRoomer
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
1,799
Location
Amongst haters
There are always people who don't really understand character potential in fighting games (the vast majority don't, no surprise there). In all sorts of games (mainly well-designed ones), many low tiers have the traits required to win. It's just much harder. They are low tier because they have disadvantages, not because they have zero chance. Only in extreme cases is it very impractical to win with certain characters, but that is usually not very common.

Why don't you negative nancies take a look at the plethora of matches of other fighters and see how many low tiers have been winning at top player level. I guarantee there are many to choose from. Melee is no exception, it's just that the Smash community is not as knowledgeable or open-minded as others, so everyone just gives up when they realize they have to put in WORK to beat a top player with a hard character.

I've played most of the major top players in Melee and there wasn't anyone I couldn't consistently beat with Link. If you like the character and enjoy putting in effort to gain skill, then keep using him. Don't pay any mind to people who think they know what true skill is just because they can beat an average player with Sheik. :lick:
 

V3ctorMan

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
2,261
Location
Sierra Vista AZ
^ this...

"Axe here" right next to me also agrees.... "he's the Pikachu, that noone believed would get anywhere, and look where he's gotten... Just keep practicing man, do your thing..Axe/myself are in the class of very few, that believe a character can achieve nearly anything...Will it be tough? You know it... You'll prolly doubt yourself, time upon time, upon time again...but that all comes with it...

I <3 Link btw...but i'm bad at him.. ^^; either way...good luck to you....
Now i'm off to the Yoshi/Mewtwo boards where I belong.. =p
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
You won 2 games against M2K's Sheik but he also wasn't using the CG, which does, in fact, make the matchup a lot harder than if you play without it. I would feel differently if Link made it out of pools at big events and if Axe could win without having to swap to Falco when Sheik appeared. But neither of those happen.

At some point, the amount of skill you need to have to beat your opponent in such a slanted matchup (if they're trying to win and doing everything they can to win) becomes unreasonable, I think.
 

HDL

I like pork chops.
BRoomer
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
1,799
Location
Amongst haters
I won many more than just 2 matches. Were you there to know exactly what happened? He did chain throw, it's just that I play in a way where I give way less opportunities to be abused by it. And I'm not saying I didn't lose to him, but I didn't just luck out with a couple of matches by chance. Please don't speak unless you know the facts. This thread isn't about that anyway. I gave my thoughts in response to the thread's topic and you had already done so. If people want to play a certain character, let them.
 

Skler

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
4,514
Location
On top of Milktea
I never understood why YLink is lower on the tier list than Link either. Link KOs earlier and has a better recovery, but he gets comboed harder and his projectiles don't combo into his kill moves if his opponents DI correctly (whereas YL can generally dair you out of bombs regardless of what you do).

Maybe the range is what does it, I don't play YL.

It just feels weird when my god awful Fox can sometimes pull wins out of his *** if my Link loses. I honestly have a hard time l-canceling with Fox but his speed just makes it stupid easy to punish things Link can't.

Plank is a pretty good example of a Sheik who wants to win and isn't afraid of camping and CGing all the time (and that is not a shot at him, he just does what it takes to win). Playing against him with a low tier is like pulling teeth. KirbyKaze is a fairly unstoppable Sheik too, and I'm convinced he wasn't playing at his gayest against me.

Then again, playing Jman's Fox once is enough to show that Link stands literally no chance against a properly camping Fox on a big enough stage. There are some road blocks that can't be overcome due to obvious limitations. Link is too slow to chase Fox around DL64, he will never beat a (well played) Fox who feels like camping there without massive mistakes from the Fox. He can honestly run the timer, shoot one laser per loop and expect to win. His horizontal and vertical speed are too great for Link to overcome even with projectiles.

Link isn't entirely useless, and Fox is probably the only character he can literally never beat if played correctly, but it's a very uphill battle for a lot of the matchups.

As an honest counterpick I feel Link could be useful to even current top level players as a counterpick for Peach (for people who hate using Marth, Fox and Falcon), Puff (for people who hate trying to figure out who's good against Puff), and the ICs (for people who hate using any of the many characters that do good against the ICs). He's passable against those three characters, only has a bad matchup against Marth but then gets absolutely tooled by Fox, Sheik, Falcon and Falco (probably in that order of awful ****, though move Falco past Falcon on stages like FD and DL64 where he can be more of a laser prostitute).

Again, they aren't unwinnable (except a very specific style of Fox when played well), but they are very difficult.

Playing Link is mad fun though, and it's always a good time when somebody isn't sure what to do in the matchup and ends up losing in some hilarious way.
 

cjugs

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
521
Location
Where amazing happens
I never understood why YLink is lower on the tier list than Link either. Link KOs earlier and has a better recovery, but he gets comboed harder and his projectiles don't combo into his kill moves if his opponents DI correctly (whereas YL can generally dair you out of bombs regardless of what you do).

Maybe the range is what does it, I don't play YL.

It just feels weird when my god awful Fox can sometimes pull wins out of his *** if my Link loses. I honestly have a hard time l-canceling with Fox but his speed just makes it stupid easy to punish things Link can't.

Plank is a pretty good example of a Sheik who wants to win and isn't afraid of camping and CGing all the time (and that is not a shot at him, he just does what it takes to win). Playing against him with a low tier is like pulling teeth. KirbyKaze is a fairly unstoppable Sheik too, and I'm convinced he wasn't playing at his gayest against me.

Then again, playing Jman's Fox once is enough to show that Link stands literally no chance against a properly camping Fox on a big enough stage. There are some road blocks that can't be overcome due to obvious limitations. Link is too slow to chase Fox around DL64, he will never beat a (well played) Fox who feels like camping there without massive mistakes from the Fox. He can honestly run the timer, shoot one laser per loop and expect to win. His horizontal and vertical speed are too great for Link to overcome even with projectiles.

Link isn't entirely useless, and Fox is probably the only character he can literally never beat if played correctly, but it's a very uphill battle for a lot of the matchups.

As an honest counterpick I feel Link could be useful to even current top level players as a counterpick for Peach (for people who hate using Marth, Fox and Falcon), Puff (for people who hate trying to figure out who's good against Puff), and the ICs (for people who hate using any of the many characters that do good against the ICs). He's passable against those three characters, only has a bad matchup against Marth but then gets absolutely tooled by Fox, Sheik, Falcon and Falco (probably in that order of awful ****, though move Falco past Falcon on stages like FD and DL64 where he can be more of a laser prostitute).

Again, they aren't unwinnable (except a very specific style of Fox when played well), but they are very difficult.

Playing Link is mad fun though, and it's always a good time when somebody isn't sure what to do in the matchup and ends up losing in some hilarious way.
Agreed isai vs Germ perfect example. buut is this because link is under developed? I mean yeah it's a bad matchup for link vs sheik but without her cg on him would it still be? i mean IC's have wobbling vs anybody and they don't always win. Link can camp and we haven't even touched what he can do with his bombs by laying them around on the stage if link can find a better way to camp i don't think he would get slaughtered against fox quite as bad and thus making the matchup winnable.
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
NYC
I never understood why YLink is lower on the tier list than Link either. Link KOs earlier and has a better recovery, but he gets comboed harder and his projectiles don't combo into his kill moves if his opponents DI correctly (whereas YL can generally dair you out of bombs regardless of what you do).

Maybe the range is what does it, I don't play YL.
^^ that. I switch between the characters time from time and I'm beginning to feel that YLink may infact have as much, maybe more, potential for similar reasons.... who knows >.>
Link can camp and we haven't even touched what he can do with his bombs by laying them around on the stage if link can find a better way to camp i don't think he would get slaughtered against fox quite as bad and thus making the matchup winnable.
I've been messing around with this a lot with YLink and Link. It's great with YLink since his bombs are an awesome projectile and he's fairly speedy. With Link, I don't get nearly as much success at all. Too fat and slow lol and the reward isn't that great imo.
 
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