Is Square being super stingy with Final Fantasy stuff?

[Izanagi97]

So..... the stingy ness is apparently much worse than we could've possibly imagined...

I think I can tell what it's about

 

[FieryRebirth]

When dealing with the FF fanbase, I don't blame them. Again, FF is Square's nest egg right now and with other FF projects, and with FF15's impending milking-run running dry, they may be in a spot.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, I knew they didn't send much of anything. I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt by saying their spirits would be buried under everyone else's spirits, and lo and behold, there's basically nothing beyond Cloud, Geno and Mallow.

One can only imagine how annoyed the DQ fanbase will be when they learn of this.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

And according to PapaGeno, Cloud might be the only Fighter that doesn't even appear in World of Light! Vergeban might even be wrong about a Square rep being DLC.

 

[MacSmitty]

Y'know, speaking of lack of other stuff from Square, it makes me wonder why the summons on Midgar didn't get trophies back in 4.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Likely Noctis, since Square has to keep milking anything FF15. Cloud is Square's FF mascot, Noctis is their DeviantART OC they want senpai(s)to notice.

>Square's DeviantART OC

I thought that was Lightning.

Given these circumstances, SE fans in general are in a really rough spot. Asking for anyone, like Sora, any DQ character, Neku, Octopath Traveller characters, Chrono, Bub, Lara Croft or even Rico is just going to be stonewalled by the company's restrictions being the equivalent of fighting a Marlboro.

To think that older characters were thought to be impossible, the true impossible picks have been from SE all along. If any of their stuff is to be bought away from them by other companies, it'd be too soon.

rip deus ex in smash
what a shame. it was a good dream. what a rotten way to die.

snip

All this list is missing is the final boss tracks from FF8 (The Extreme? Was that what it's called?) and FF9 (the one that plays when you fight Necron) and we're good to go.

Children don't care, or rather, they shouldn't...

"Apathy is Death"

(screw lighting, figuratively not literally you pervs)

**** you I do what I want.

Geno would be the easiest character to add because He's got no strings (to hold me down) (puns, fight me) attached to Square since he's already tied to Nintendo.

I swear to god, if Geno gets in, and his moveset isn't a blatant ripoff of Ultron's Marvel Vs. Capcom moveset, We gonna have serious issues.

And according to PapaGeno, Cloud might be the only Fighter that doesn't even appear in World of Light! Vergeban might even be wrong about a Square rep being DLC.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

So looks like out of the Sm4sh 3rd-Party DLC trio, Cloud has gotten less treatment than Ryu and Bayonetta. Ryu's got an Echo Fighter, Assist and a ton of Spirits. Bayonetta has got an Assist, a ton of Spirits and was seen in the World of Light opening cutscene. Cloud has got nothing. When Marth and Roy get English voices, Cloud is still stuck with his Japanese voice. And Square doesn't have any spirits except for Geno, Mallow and Cloud. Cloud's chances isn't looking good for the next Smash game after Ultimate. If Sakurai were to ask Square for Cloud, he needs to ask for more than what we've got. He's gotta find a way to get Steve Burton in so that Cloud doesn't become the new Marth. With Marth and Roy, them speaking Japanese at the time of Melee made sense because Fire Emblem was a Japanese only game series. But Cloud, not only has his games been localized since his first appearance, he was voiced in English by Steve Burton for a decade ever since Kingdom Hearts, so even Disney fans know Cloud's English voice. And the reason Steve Burton can't voice Cloud in Smash? Contracts. Stupid contracts ruin everything! Bad contracts are the reason Henry Cavill's mustache had to be covered in CGI in Justice League and why the Marvel Cinematic Universe doesn't have full access to all of Marvel's characters. Cloud really is looking like a Goku-level contractual mess in Smash. The more I think about it, the more I feel like Cloud doesn't even belong.

 

[Izanagi97]

And according to PapaGeno, Cloud might be the only Fighter that doesn't even appear in World of Light! Vergeban might even be wrong about a Square rep being DLC.

Spoiler: World of Light Spoiler

Yeah, gonna correct you there, Cloud does show up in World of Light, albeit unlocked in the Dark World portion from the looks of it

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Spoiler: World of Light Spoiler

Yeah, gonna correct you there, Cloud does show up in World of Light, albeit unlocked in the Dark World portion from the looks of it

Spoiler

Honestly, this feels like a Brawl Sonic situation to me.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Oh. But there's still a lack of Final Fantasy spirits, right?

 

[Izanagi97]

Spoiler

So apparently Cloud's fighter spirit is just his Ultimate render

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Spoiler

So apparently Cloud's fighter spirit is just his Ultimate render

Spoiler

So, my theory was correct after all. This is amusingly dumb.

Edit: Please disregard this post, I thought this was about what spirit possessed him.

 

[Arthur97]

Spoiler

So apparently Cloud's fighter spirit is just his Ultimate render

Do they not all have those as one?

Spoiler

Like, what are they going to use for Male Robin and Female Robin since they never got official art in Awakening?

 

[Lodestar65]

Do they not all have those as one?

Spoiler

Like, what are they going to use for Male Robin and Female Robin since they never got official art in Awakening?

Spoiler

Either portraits or Heroes/Warriors art

 

[FirestormNeos]

Spoiler

So apparently Cloud's fighter spirit is just his Ultimate render

Oh, Squeenix...

I should probably actually watch Futurama at some point, but...

 

[Arthur97]

Spoiler

Either portraits or Heroes/Warriors art

Spoiler

Doubt it will be Warriors content as that seems to be a gray area, and I hope its not Heroes. Still, I would imagine all renders will be spirits.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

People are raising concerns over Cloud's potential cut in Smash 6 ffs.
Worry about that when AND if we get there.

If Sakurai were to ask Square for Cloud, he needs to ask for more than what we've got. He's gotta find a way to get Steve Burton in so that Cloud doesn't become the new Marth.

Sakurai. Is not. In charge. Of the voice casting. For the other languages.

Do you think he chose Antony del Rio as Pit? Or Yuri Lowenthal as Marth? No!
That was of Nintendo of America, not him.

He makes it his job to add characters if possible, and that's it. Its not his responsibility to make sure that X character speaks in English, Spanish or whatever language they use in their respective region.
Using the lack of a voice actor in one language is a dumb excuse to cut a character from Smash. Sakurai doesn't have to do jack about that just because you say so when you don't even understand where his role as a game director ends.

 

[pap64]

I talked to S_B about this last Saturday when the data mine leaks happened; if Square truly is stingy with their IPs being used, then the possible reason we didn't get Geno in the base roster at all was because Square are beyond strict with their IPs. Cloud and Final Fantasy VII are beyond beloved to a fault so it is surprising that Ultimate was not the opportunity to expand on that in the same manner that Castlevania, Metal Gear and Mega Man got expanded upon. Not to mention that Final Fantasy VII will be out for the Switch soon so why have so animosity?

I was watching Maximilian's Smash history stream where they talked about this exact, same issue; his friend (the chubby guy, the one that played Doctor Doom in his Marvel videos) said the reason this was annoying was because Konami, Sega, Capcom and Namco have given Nintendo so much freedom to use their characters and IPs in great ways, going as far as to let them remix classic tracks and use assets, whereas Square barely let them do anything with Final Fantasy. He mentioned that with such a great music team behind each Smash game, you would think this would be a great opportunity to take classic Final Fantasy VII tracks and remix them through a set of new eyes. Max of course was dismissive about it because "he is just happy Cloud is in the game" (as much as I love the dude he tends to dismiss Smash a lot and only covers it because it's a hype booster for his channel).

But worse is that this DOES severely limit any Square character's chances to be in the game if they are indeed that hard to work with. I know that Vergeben keeps stating that a Square rep will be in as DLC, but if we get one I feel it will be as limited as Cloud is right now in terms of content.

 

[Captain Shades]

I was watching Maximilian's Smash history stream where they talked about this exact, same issue; his friend (the chubby guy, the one that played Doctor Doom in his Marvel videos) said the reason this was annoying was because Konami, Sega, Capcom and Namco have given Nintendo so much freedom to use their characters and IPs in great ways, going as far as to let them remix classic tracks and use assets, whereas Square barely let them do anything with Final Fantasy. He mentioned that with such a great music team behind each Smash game, you would think this would be a great opportunity to take classic Final Fantasy VII tracks and remix them through a set of new eyes.

You forgot Platinum Games, WayForward, Yaht Club Games, and Ubisoft who seem to allow Nintendo to use anything they want from them. Three of which don’t even have fighters, yet are still open to Nintendo.

Hopefully Square doesn’t relieve a Dragon Quest rep, and 3rd party slots are reserved for more open companies. God knows Ubisoft, Mojang, Bethesda, and multiple indies have shown nothing but support for Nintendo but get little to no representation in Smash. We need Rayman, Steve, Doom Slayer, Banjo (if Microsoft is as open as they appear), and others to get in.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

It is kind of funny that Square is stingy with FF content in Smash, but are totally cool with Lightning being a Louis Vuitton model. Uh, priorities I guess. I don't know anything about the fashion industry but that probably leaves more profit to them.

 

[Luigifan18]

It is kind of funny that Square is stingy with FF content in Smash, but are totally cool with Lightning being a Louis Vuitton model. Uh, priorities I guess. I don't know anything about the fashion industry but that probably leaves more profit to them.

Wait, Lightning is being used as a freaking model... for real-life clothes?!? Lolwut?

 

[Bladebreaker]

Wait, Lightning is being used as a freaking model... for real-life clothes?!? Lolwut?

During the release cycle of the Lightning trilogy, they used several of the FF13 characters as models. Probably the biggest WTF moment as a Final Fantasy fan I've ever experienced.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Well, we do know Toriyama really wants the world to see his waifu.

 

[Luigifan18]

During the release cycle of the Lightning trilogy, they used several of the FF13 characters as models. Probably the biggest WTF moment as a Final Fantasy fan I've ever experienced.

Um... uh... how?!?

 

[Bladebreaker]

Um... uh... how?!?

Yeah, you can read up on it here.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, we do know Toriyama really wants the world to see his waifu.

On top of this, I hate the fact that one of the more talented artists in the game industry and a complete idiot both share the same last name and work at the same company. It makes things more confusing than necessary.

 

[FirestormNeos]

I remember that. During one of my trips to Las Vegas, I even passed by a Louis Vuitton that had a big ol' poster of Lightning behind a window. XD

Ah, videogames...

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Vergeban said there would be a new Square Enix character, but what if his source misunderstood arguments between Nintendo and Square over Cloud's inclusion and took all the more frequent phone calls to Square after he heard that "everyone is here" as negotiations to include a new Square character, but it turned out to be very complicated renegotiations for Cloud?

 

[SvartWolf]

Y'know, speaking of lack of other stuff from Square, it makes me wonder why the summons on Midgar didn't get trophies back in 4.

They weren't 3d models, but still images. so to get trophies they would've need to be modelled from scratch...

now.. why the summons aren't spirits? who the hell knows?

Also, thank you guys for keeping spoilers on spoilers tags! <3

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Vergeban said there would be a new Square Enix character, but what if his source misunderstood arguments between Nintendo and Square over Cloud's inclusion and took all the more frequent phone calls to Square after he heard that "everyone is here" as negotiations to include a new Square character, but it turned out to be very complicated renegotiations for Cloud?

Yeah, that seems very likely. Things would be a lot easier if Nobuo Uematsu wasn't on sabbatical.

I'm starting to think that we may not even get an actual SE newcomer at all this go-round. Apparently easy to work with, but still having to get everyone's approval before doing anything.

Still doesn't explain why Cloud couldn't get any artwork from his debut game, is Nomura too busy to be called up?

 

[Sabertooth]

Cloud would be a much better addition to Smash if he brought along actual Nintendo-relevant content, like music from the first six FF's. Also I think Midgar should've been a stage from one of those games. People like to say Cloud represents "Final Fantasy as a whole", but he just doesn't. He barely even represents FF7!

 

[Dreamking]

As a result of the SE situation, I wish the opposite would have happened in SSB4 with playable Geno plus stage and music with Cloud being the Mii costume.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Well, Vergeban said the first character in the Fighter's Pass would be a Square Enix character. What was announced was a Sega character. Looks like Vergeban's credibility is dead like Gematsu. We're not getting anything from Square. Cloud is all we're getting. It was just so difficult to get him back that Sakurai had to keep calling Square so much that someone thought there was a new character.

 

[Frost Ace]

Well, Vergeban said the first character in the Fighter's Pass would be a Square Enix character. What was announced was a Sega character. Looks like Vergeban's credibility is dead like Gematsu. We're not getting anything from Square. Cloud is all we're getting. It was just so difficult to get him back that Sakurai had to keep calling Square so much that someone thought there was a new character.

I honestly wouldn't feel bad if we never got another Square character ever again.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, Vergeban said the first character in the Fighter's Pass would be a Square Enix character. What was announced was a Sega character. Looks like Vergeban's credibility is dead like Gematsu. We're not getting anything from Square. Cloud is all we're getting. It was just so difficult to get him back that Sakurai had to keep calling Square so much that someone thought there was a new character.

At this point the only way we'll get anything from there is if some serious restructuring happens, which I won't see happening until at least 10 years. Looks like my dreams of seeing Cecil, Tifa or any DQ character are dead until then.

On the other hand, between this and the "day one Ender Dragon boss fight patch" claim, I knew V was going to slip up sooner or later. I wonder how much backpedaling he'll try to do to get out of this one.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

So I guess Sora's never going to be in Smash. I wouldn't be so surprised because I see Mickey having the better chance for a Disney rep, since you know, he shouldn't have complicated rights because he was created by Walt Disney himself, and Disney supported Sora4Smash so they clearly would like at least a rep in Smash. Well, at least we're lucky that Cloud made it in. And at least Geno and Mallow had Spirits. And we got Midgar. But we really should have gotten more than what we had from Smash 4. Ryu and Bayonetta had their series representation expanded in Ultimate. Why couldn't we have gotten any more Final Fantasy content?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So I guess Sora's never going to be in Smash. I wouldn't be so surprised because I see Mickey having the better chance for a Disney rep, since you know, he shouldn't have complicated rights because he was created by Walt Disney himself, and Disney supported Sora4Smash so they clearly would like at least a rep in Smash. Well, at least we're lucky that Cloud made it in. And at least Geno and Mallow had Spirits. And we got Midgar. But we really should have gotten more than what we had from Smash 4. Ryu and Bayonetta had their series representation expanded in Ultimate. Why couldn't we have gotten any more Final Fantasy content?

Eh, we'd sooner see Popeye get in Smash than the mouse, at least he'll be public domain in several years from now. And we know how much Sakurai tries not to go for licensed characters until further notice.

I bet Hashimoto's excited retweet of a Sora post is what cost possible negotiations, too. I hope he got a huge pay cut for that stunt.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

That or maybe he wanted Sora in Smash but Nintendo and Square found that post inappropriate because their agreement was only about Cloud getting in and he was getting people's hopes up for a rejected character that was partially owned by Disney, a company not involved in Smash.