Is Square being super stingy with Final Fantasy stuff?

[Sean Wheeler]

Smash Wiki listed Zack as a spirit, so it's not a total lack of Final Fantasy spirits. But we may need to wait for release before saying there's no other Final Fantasy spirits because the spirits were the last thing announced and I doubt Sakurai would show them all in a single direct because with all the characters, stages and assist trophies already revealed, there won't be that much surprises left and curiosity helps a game's sales.

 

[SvartWolf]

so... weve seen... easily at least like 450 spirits now, and have people seen too much square enix spirits? i havent been 100% looking for them.. but i think that if i would see some FF spirits i might remembered them :/.

What Spirit content are you expecting exactly?

And again, we don’t know how much is isn’t in the game quite yet. And won’t know until we’ve seen the full game. I don’t expect it to be huge, but that’s such a minor thing to have to manage rights and such for, so I don’t see it as a necessary part of a third party relationships.

Honestly, Street fighter? tons of spirits, Castlevania? Tons of spirits, Sonic? tons of spirits, Megaman? tons of spirits, Metal Gear? tons of spirits, Bayonetta? Tons of spirits... don't remember much about Pacman, but ive seen actually spirits of other Namco games like Baten Kaitos.

So yeah... I may missed them, but if Final Fantasy or Square enix had similar spirits "ratios" we probably would already seen a couple. and this doesn't have anything to do with Uematsu :/.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

So we can confirm there's still only 2 FF tracks. Honestly, If Square won't even let Nintendo get decent FF music, I don't see any reasoning behind another Square rep.

 

[SvartWolf]

So we can confirm there's still only 2 FF tracks. Honestly, If Square won't even let Nintendo get decent FF music, I don't see any reasoning behind another Square rep.

while we still cant completely confirm it since you can unlock tracks...

I wouldn't hold my breath for it.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

So we can confirm there's still only 2 FF tracks. Honestly, If Square won't even let Nintendo get decent FF music, I don't see any reasoning behind another Square rep.

Again, the issues with the composer explain the lack of tracks for this game.

Other content you're fair game to say Square is being stingy, but the music shouldn't be the focal point of anyone's argument when it has the most objective reasoning for being more absent. No assist trophy, Spirits, or whatever else. Sure. But the music is already in a rough place for Square themselves, let alone for cross overs...

 

[Sean Wheeler]

so... weve seen... easily at least like 450 spirits now, and have people seen too much square enix spirits? i havent been 100% looking for them.. but i think that if i would see some FF spirits i might remembered them :/.



Honestly, Street fighter? tons of spirits, Castlevania? Tons of spirits, Sonic? tons of spirits, Megaman? tons of spirits, Metal Gear? tons of spirits, Bayonetta? Tons of spirits... don't remember much about Pacman, but ive seen actually spirits of other Namco games like Baten Kaitos.

So yeah... I may missed them, but if Final Fantasy or Square enix had similar spirits "ratios" we probably would already seen a couple. and this doesn't have anything to do with Uematsu :/.

In SmashWiki's list of Final Fantasy spirits, there's still no characters. The other lists of spirits for each series are full of characters.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So we can confirm there's still only 2 FF tracks. Honestly, If Square won't even let Nintendo get decent FF music, I don't see any reasoning behind another Square rep.

Cloud probably won't even get his own unique boss fight.

 

[Arthur97]

Again, the issues with the composer explain the lack of tracks for this game.

Other content you're fair game to say Square is being stingy, but the music shouldn't be the focal point of anyone's argument when it has the most objective reasoning for being more absent. No assist trophy, Spirits, or whatever else. Sure. But the music is already in a rough place for Square themselves, let alone for cross overs...

They could use other FF music. Mega Man is branching into X music.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo is in a lose/lose situation; the iconic music people want from the early Final Fantasy games means paying a lot to Nobuo Uematsu, which while worth the payment, is something SquareEnix doesn't want to do (Sakurai would want to do it, especially since Uematsu helped compose the Brawl theme, but I guess SquareEnix still is bitter about him leaving), and they can't just use Masashi Hamauzu and Yoko Shimomura's stuff from other Final Fantasy games because after Sakurai decided to go with Final Fantasy VII's Cloud (remember, he debated on using characters from other installments, ranging from Bartz to Terra to even Noctis), SquareEnix might as well told him "You chose VII, you live with VII!" and handcuffed him to that installment, meaning that he couldn't use it as an opportunity to celebrate the Final Fantasy series as a whole; instead, just for the one game.

We may get spirit forms of the Materia summons from Midgar, but that may be pushing it. Series with much less rep (and I'm talking not even Assist Trophies) will likely get much more input in Spirits Mode from Sakurai since he said in the recent Famitsu interview that he discussed things with as many game developers as possible to keep characters and franchises as authentic as possible for unlock criteria and abilities.

So, yeah, SquareEnix is being stingy.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Given these circumstances, SE fans in general are in a really rough spot. Asking for anyone, like Sora, any DQ character, Neku, Octopath Traveller characters, Chrono, Bub, Lara Croft or even Rico is just going to be stonewalled by the company's restrictions being the equivalent of fighting a Marlboro.

To think that older characters were thought to be impossible, the true impossible picks have been from SE all along. If any of their stuff is to be bought away from them by other companies, it'd be too soon.

Although it'd be funny if IO Interactive allowed Agent 47 to be in Smash, as an act of revenge towards SE, since IO left them.

 

[Arthur97]

Yet somehow we're supposed to expect a SE DLC fighter?

 

[Kuraudo]

Go under, Square-Enix. Or come back with a completely new head of staff. Unless it's too late for them.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Go under, Square-Enix. Or come back with a completely new head of staff. Unless it's too late for them.

I just hope they get Konami'ed by some other people, at least then their stuff would finally get used.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

How did Cloud get in Smash in the first place?

 

[Tino]

Why bother putting Cloud in Smash in the first place if Square Enix are gonna keep ******** about licensing or some other bull****...

 

[osby]

Why bother putting Cloud in Smash in the first place if Square Enix are gonna keep ******** about licensing or some other bull****...

Because he's freaking Cloud Strife and people wanted him in the game? Not assist trophies, music tracks but specifically him?

How did Cloud get in Smash in the first place?

It seems Sakurai asked Square and they said sure.

Cloud probably won't even get his own unique boss fight.

We have five confirmed bosses, I doubt we'll get 70+ unique boss fights anyway.

 

[Christian_CAO]

2 songs is not a composer issue. Some songs are practically direct rips. Besides, is the Chocobo theme and One winged Angel really too much to ask for? Those two songs are literally the only other songs on anyone's mind when they think of final fantasy anyway. Chocobo, One Winged, and the title theme along with the victory fanfare of FF7 are the only songs that stand out in the entire franchise after what is already in Smash.

The other music in the franchise is forgettable, not catchy at all, or are just really too much for smash...

I mean sure I'd kill for a remix upbeat version of Suteki da ne, but that's just not happening.

In my opinion, if Nintendo really wants to push dlc for the game, they'll get more Mii costume deals.
Onion Knight, Bartz, Sephiroth, Gilgamesh and Auron Mii Swordsman costume anyone?
How about Black Mage (Vivi), Red Mage (Classic) and Ranger/ Sniper/Flintlock/Gunner (Fran/ Viera/ Moogle 4thewin/ Vincent) Costumes for the Mii Gunner?
Can we get a Monk (Amarant/ Yang Fang/ Figaro/ Tifa), Ninja (Classic) and a Bangaa (gladiator/ viking) costume up in here?

So much potential for every franchise to have more representation through customization content with the Miis, Final Fantasy is just an example

 

[Bladebreaker]

The other music in the franchise is forgettable, not catchy at all, or are just really too much for smash...

Hear that? That's the sound of millions of Final Fantasy music fans pounding at your door, holding pitchforks and torches.

 

[SvartWolf]

I mean... the only thing they needed to do is put some trophies Spirits from FF VII, FF IX, FFX, FF Crystal Chronicles and FFXII (the final fantasies that ARE ACTUALLY COMING TO SWITCH) and enjoy the revenue of free marketing...

does licencing a couple of spirits is so risky business that they shy from free marketing for their upcoming games? :s

 

[Big-Cat]

2 songs is not a composer issue. Some songs are practically direct rips. Besides, is the Chocobo theme and One winged Angel really too much to ask for? Those two songs are literally the only other songs on anyone's mind when they think of final fantasy anyway. Chocobo, One Winged, and the title theme along with the victory fanfare of FF7 are the only songs that stand out in the entire franchise after what is already in Smash.

Doesn't matter. Depending on the contract Uematsu had with Square at the time, he may retain some portion of the song's rights if not completely. He did a collaboration album with the singer Kanon that used a number of FF songs, all of which he composed. I never heard Square Enix even promoting that album.

The other music in the franchise is forgettable, not catchy at all, or are just really too much for smash...

Get out.

 

[Christian_CAO]

Hear that? That's the sound of millions of Final Fantasy music fans pounding at your door, holding pitchforks and torches.

Hold on let me open the door for them! Living is hard and I was looking for an easy out.
Jokes aside, I stand by my claim.

Final Fantasy has a universal title theme that is iconic and of course the Chocobo, and victory fanfare as well.
After that, everything falls onto the shoulders of FF7.

I barely played FF7 Hell I watched my best friend play it more than I actually have and I've played every game accept the newer spinoff styled ones that stray so far from being a "traditional" rpg that it turned me off to completion, yet can remember the music in 7 more than the others.

Here, off the top of my head without counting universal themes
2: Rydia theme, Mysidia theme, Underworld theme, The Overworld Theme (my favorite overworld theme honestly, though the sailing version was always nicer to me)

1: The Church Theme and the Ocean Floor Temple theme...

3: Town of Amur, Salonia theme, The everlasting world theme in the end

4: Gilbart's Lute, Mt. Ordeals, (honestly this one shares allot of locals with 2 so i'm sure they share music albeit updated a bit or remixed here), Sorrow and Loss, The land of summons, People of the Moon and the Giant's Dungeon themes

5: The Damn Music Box theme

6: Kefka's theme, Mt. Kolts, Esper World, the Floating Continent theme and The ending theme Balanced is restored

7: Every single Battle theme, Cosmo Canyon, One winged Angel, Turks Theme, Fight On, The Continue theme (friend died...allot!, I did too), Costa del Sol, Gold Saucer, Mining town, Descendant of the Shinobi, Aerith's theme, The Highwind takes to the skies theme and the Planet's Crisis theme at the end.

8: Roses and Wine, Galbadia Garden, The salt Flats and the Castle Theme come to mind

9: Steiner's and Vivi's themes, Zidane's theme as well as Kuja's theme, Faerie battle theme, Hunter's Chase theme...like Festival of the Hunt?, That assault theme, The Black Mage Village theme, The moogle theme weird that I remember it here... and the Melodies of Life theme, well both of them.

10: Suteki da ne .... nothing else comes to mind, poof

Tactics: Delita's Theme, The Game Over Theme (I sucked but I loved it), That spy theme espionage stuff and Saint Ajora's theme

11: Heavens Tower, Mithra theme and the Grand Dutchy theme

12: Penelo's theme and the Ozmone Plains theme, The Hope poem and the Bahamut stuff

13: ... I didn't touch it. Never even looked at a video for it. I dunno, everyone saying that it wasn't great probably nudged my judgement for it. Which isn't fair. I should've given it a fair chance and played it.

After those I dropped out of my Final Fantasy Kick. 12 did something that 9 did and messed with the formula to shake things up but 12's combat system really was refreshing, though 9 was fun for sure, 12 put things on a new level.

The newer titles and spinoffs (that could have been their own games in a different universe but new ip's can be scary territory so risk vs reward dictates taking the easy way out and just slapping the name Final Fantasy on it will ensure that it sells initially off of brand alone) just don't resonate with me all that much. Gonna try the FF7 remake for sure, even though it's the highest point in Nostalgia pandering, not as bad as nintendo with virtual consoles that shove their outdated crusty games back into relevancy without having to actually create anything new or engaging while putting emulation on their radar again... Only old dusty folks like myself could appreciate that. Children don't care, or rather, they shouldn't... I had a point to this reply somewhere... Ah, oh yeah.

My point is I obviously just like to talk allot of smack to get people riled up because all of those songs that I just remembered off the top of my head is proof enough that the lack of Music representation for the Final Fantasy franchise is criminally abysmal here in smash.

Just looking at the list and then looking back at what I said a sentence before I began the list... smh, I'm out of my mind for thinking that Final Fantasy 7's music is all we need....I mean Cloud is the poster boy of protagonists, that hasn't changed (screw lighting, figuratively not literally you pervs). However the music representation is way too sparse here for a game with 'Ultimate' in the title.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay, so given these conditions, who would be the easiest SE character to ask for before anyone else? That's the only sensical course of action to take at this point beyond boycotting their games.

All I can think of is Bub the dragon.

 

[Bladebreaker]

Okay, so given these conditions, who would be the easiest SE character to ask for before anyone else? That's the only sensical course of action to take at this point beyond boycotting their games.

All I can think of is Bub the dragon.

Depending on how one defines "easiest," whatever Square's is welling to sell at their extortionate rate. If "easiest" equals to "less legal hurdles." Dragon Quest, probably.

 

[Christian_CAO]

Okay, so given these conditions, who would be the easiest SE character to ask for before anyone else? That's the only sensical course of action to take at this point beyond boycotting their games.

All I can think of is Bub the dragon.

... Geno would be the easiest since neither Nintendo nor Square want anything to do with the character.
But that in return creates the issue with his inclusion.

They don't care about him.

So why add in someone unmarketable like Geno?
Everything else makes sense for all the third party characters
but since Square doesn't gain anything by including geno in smash and Nintendo Doesn't gain anything (except the hearts of fans) from his inclusion in smash...

no one wins.
No one, except the players because new fighter that people have wanted in smash for over a decade getting in is always welcome

but for the powers at be... nope. There's no money past dlc for geno, there's no advertisement for either company tied to him, there's no future past, hey we worked together to make this game and this guy you made for it was in it so let's put him in for...reasons?

Geno would be the easiest character to add because He's got no strings (to hold me down) (puns, fight me) attached to Square since he's already tied to Nintendo.

However, because of this and because Nintendo in turn doesn't have a use for him aside from fanservice, we have an odd game of hot potato and no body wants to be the one left holding the puppet.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Depending on how one defines "easiest," whatever Square's is welling to sell at their extortionate rate. If "easiest" equals to "less legal hurdles." Dragon Quest, probably.

Yes, and even then Sugiyama's a butt when it comes to music rights. The other two big names of the series (Horii and Toriyama) seem easier to deal with for the rest of the stuff.

 

[Dukemon]

SE had not even content in PlayStation AllStars BattleRoyal.^^

 

[Tino]

Because he's freaking Cloud Strife and people wanted him in the game? Not assist trophies, music tracks but specifically him?

I get that part but at least they could’ve added some content like an assist trophy, more music tracks and all that stuff.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

SE had not even content in PlayStation AllStars BattleRoyal.^^

Not as noticeable there, seeing how much of a mess that game was production-wise. Didn't even have Crash and Spyro.

 

[AIM0001]

The only having two tracks thing baffles me but they do have a Crono Trigger spirit. That’s something atleast...

 

[WaddleMatt]

Crono Trigger spirit.

Huh? What? Where?

 

[AIM0001]

Huh? What? Where?

 

[WaddleMatt]

View attachment 178781View attachment 178781

Confirmed fake

 

[VexTheHex]

Makes me wonder if the whole reason Vergeben knew about the SE rep is cause they (SE) were salty they couldn't milk more money out of Cloud as DLC and instead put their foot down they wanted a DLC locked for them if Cloud was "free."

 

[AIM0001]

Confirmed fake

Really? Damn now we have to worry about people photoshopping spirits? Do these people have nothing better going on? Well I apologize, I thought this was a confirmation that SE isn’t as bad as we all thought they were. = /

 

[Arcadenik]

In an ideal world...

Playable fighters

• Cloud
• Slime
• Geno
• Mallow

Assist Trophies

• Cecil Harvey
• Bartz Klauser
• Terra Branford
• Dragonlord (dragon form)
• Agnès Oblige
• Bub & Bob
• Space Invaders

Stages

• Midgar
• Zenithia
• Bowser’s Keep

Mii costumes

• Ninja
• Black Mage
• White Mage
• Onion Knight
• Chocobo
• Moogle
• Erdrick
• Dragonlord
• Hero (Dragon Quest VIII)
• Builder (Dragon Quest Builders)
• Crono (Chrono Trigger)
• Randi (Secret of Mana)

 

[Robertman2]

Keep in mind that Square has their own in-house crossover fighting game, Dissida.

this means nothing lol. They're still handing characters out to other fighting games like candy (Noctis in Tekken, 2B in Soul Cal, some Thief Arthur chick in SNK Heroines). Spirits, who knows what's going on there, and music is because of Umbetsu

 

[Dukemon]

this means nothing lol. They're still handing characters out to other fighting games like candy (Noctis in Tekken, 2B in Soul Cal, some Thief Arthur chick in SNK Heroines). Spirits, who knows what's going on there, and music is because of Umbetsu

Do not forget Assassins Creed Origin and The Sims 4 (Noctis outfit)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

this means nothing lol. They're still handing characters out to other fighting games like candy (Noctis in Tekken, 2B in Soul Cal, some Thief Arthur chick in SNK Heroines). Spirits, who knows what's going on there, and music is because of Umbetsu

I'm still puzzled as to why SE decided to include a Japan-only gacha game character in an SNK crossover (even Skullomania makes more sense when you think about it), but whatever floats their boat, I guess.

 

[ProudNintendofan]

So..... the stingy ness is apparently much worse than we could've possibly imagined...

 

[WaddleMatt]

So..... the stingy ness is apparently much worse than we could've possibly imagined...

God dammit Ness, why you so stingy.