Is Rosalina the most broken character?

[False Sense]

Is Rosalina broken? Well counting the fact she can seperate from Luma and they can both attack eneimes without being together which makes them diffrent from ice climbers.If Luma dies Rosalina doesn't even though they do SHARE a spot on the roster.I think if Luma dies Rosalina should to. So yes i do think they are broken. I play too much phoenix wright don't I.

If Rosalina died whenever Luma died, then Rosalina would be complete garbage. It's far too easy to kill Luma for them to share a stock.

 

[JanitorOfHyrule]

If Rosalina died whenever Luma died, then Rosalina would be complete garbage. It's far too easy to kill Luma for them to share a stock.

Eh yah sorry for that.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I think if Luma dies Rosalina should to.

What.

 

[ChikoLad]

Is Rosalina broken? Well counting the fact she can seperate from Luma and they can both attack eneimes without being together which makes them diffrent from ice climbers.If Luma dies Rosalina doesn't even though they do SHARE a spot on the roster.I think if Luma dies Rosalina should to. So yes i do think they are broken. I play too much phoenix wright don't I.

Popo didn't die if Nana was KO'd, I don't see why Rosalina should when Luma is KO'd, especially since Luma is extremely easy to K.O.

 

[dedekong]

I am truly frightened of what Rosalina players will do once they have a Gamecube controller in their hands, NO latency issues to worry about, and all the time they need to perfect her.

As for Luma dying... Rosalina does not give a damn about this. You kill Luma? Ok, try approaching her if you want... she is still fully capable of waiting out and punishing within the few seconds it takes to respawn Chiko.

 

[ZombieBran]

If Rosalina must be nerfed, I'd rather it be to her own moveset rather than to Luma.

 

[otter]

Another huge thing is that Rossy is practically Jigglypuff in terms of aerial mobility. Can't tell you how many times on For Glory I made someone trying to punish my fall miss. By the time Mario can counter an aerial Rossy is 10 feet away.

you clearly don't play her.

For the record, Mario is one of the harder matchups for me as Rosalina. Along with Greninja, Mac, and ZSS. If Mario wants to camp with fireballs it's really hard. Gravitational Pull is way too slow and just preserves the status quo. I dont really understand why people get mad about downB. its slower and inherenty worse than a stsndard reflecor. Her jump is so slow that you will never suprise Mario. I know Rosalina is great, just thought id chime in.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If Rosalina must be nerfed, I'd rather it be to her own moveset rather than to Luma.

Even then, there's nothing worth nerfing with Rosalina.

 

[Jesse Martinez]

Even if Nintendo nerfed her moveset, which they probably won't, Rosie would still be good as heck; it's nearly impossible to make a puppet character useless.

 

[ChikoLad]

I am truly frightened of what Rosalina players will do once they have a Gamecube controller in their hands, NO latency issues to worry about, and all the time they need to perfect her.

As for Luma dying... Rosalina does not give a damn about this. You kill Luma? Ok, try approaching her if you want... she is still fully capable of waiting out and punishing within the few seconds it takes to respawn Chiko.

Zero Suit Samus is particularly good at approaching Rosalina, and Sheik can do it pretty well too, if the Rosalina player isn't playing well.

Mario is no problem though, people are overrating him in the Rosalina match-up.

 

[otter]

Even if Nintendo nerfed her moveset, which they probably won't, Rosie would still be good as heck; it's nearly impossible to make a puppet character useless.

They're polarizing. Carl is bad in all but one version of Blazblue. PM Ice Climbers are not great. It's always been clear Rosalina would be useless or amazing.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mario is no problem though, people are overrating him in the Rosalina match-up.

Mario's Cape does render all the Star Bit variations useless though, so pressuring him that way is out of the question.

 

[ZombieBran]

Carl is bad in all but one version of Blazblue.

I heard he recently rose up some tiers in CP?
I don't play Blazblue competitively yet, so this may mean nothing.

 

[Jesse Martinez]

They're polarizing. Carl is bad in all but one version of Blazblue. PM Ice Climbers are not great. It's always been clear Rosalina would be useless or amazing.

Carl was near top in CT because of the clap loop (which was able to be continued after an opponent's burst), and he didn't fall below B tier in CS or CS II because though they removed the loop, he still had a variation of them, without being as ridiculous. The only game I have little experience with is BBCP and that's because I only play it when I go to the arcade here, and even then I play Kokonoe now.

 

[otter]

Carl was near top in CT because of the clap loop (which was able to be continued after an opponent's burst), and he didn't fall below B tier in CS or CS II because though they removed the loop, he still had a variation of them, without being as ridiculous. The only game I have little experience with is BBCP and that's because I only play it when I go to the arcade here, and even then I play Kokonoe now.

I played CT pretty extensively. I think he was pretty low despite the loop. Really cool character though.

 

[Jesse Martinez]

The only matchups I had an issue with were against Rachels and Nus, who were top tier, even characters like Ragna and Jin who have decent rushdown didn't pose much of a threat to me. Bottom tier in CT was Tager, Bang, and Hakumen iirc. Even then CT had few characters so most matchups weren't extensively lopsided barring Tager v Carl and Tager v Nu

 

[WabbitSeason]

you clearly don't play her.

For the record, Mario is one of the harder matchups for me as Rosalina. Along with Greninja, Mac, and ZSS. If Mario wants to camp with fireballs it's really hard. Gravitational Pull is way too slow and just preserves the status quo. I dont really understand why people get mad about downB. its slower and inherenty worse than a stsndard reflecor. Her jump is so slow that you will never suprise Mario. I know Rosalina is great, just thought id chime in.

No, I do. I just space attacks well.

And pull is by far better than reflector. You don't have to wait until a projectile is about to hit you to take it away. And I think reflector is not jump-cancellable in this game either.

 

[KasperUK]

Not trying to step on anyones toes but can we keep posts smash related?

 

[ChikoLad]

This little furry pr0nstar gave my Rosalina the most annoying time today. Played a bunch of matches against the same guy.

I'm not sure how good he was, because input lag definitely screwed me over more than a few times. But basically, it isn't much of a problem until Lucario is at high percents, and his now obnoxious aura buffs kick in. Then, he has way too much range on too many moves and this player kept spamming Neutral B and Side B. I managed to get by this, but it was still hard to get close for a while.

Despite the input lag, I felt I WAS getting close to wrapping the MU in Rosalina's favour, but then he switched to . At which point, he kept spamming Side B, Neutral B, and Down B, but these are stupid things to spam against Rosalina, so the matches were easy.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Like I pretty much brought up on a different thread, Bowser Jr.'s projectiles are a huge joke for Rosalina; they're quite slow, and are easily countered by Gravitational Pull.

 

[ChikoLad]

Side B is stupid against her too, because even the weakest charge of Luma Shot goes right through BJ's side B.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Side B is stupid against her too, because even the weakest charge of Luma Shot goes right through BJ's side B.

You think that's amusing, just simply shield grabbing counters that attack. Rosalina can do either tactic with the right timing.

 

[ZombieBran]

Yeah, Bowser Jrs online often make him look bad when I know he's a really great character =S

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yeah, Bowser Jrs online often make him look bad when I know he's a really great character =S

The one thing that needs to be kept in mind about Bowser Jr., however, is that his projectiles are very slow. There's no way that Bowser Jr. can send long range pressure at Rosalina, thanks to her Gravitational Pull special, so this does force him to have to do the more direct approach.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Bowser Jr does have that side-b jump cancel move, that's pretty good.

He doesn't impress me much, he does have strong smashes though

Feels free for this character though. I like Grav pulling the Mechakoopas.

 

[ChikoLad]

Bowser Jr has the same problem Sonic had in Brawl - lack of reliable kill moves.

Other than that, he's fun.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

The one thing that needs to be kept in mind about Bowser Jr., however, is that his projectiles are very slow. There's no way that Bowser Jr. can send long range pressure at Rosalina, thanks to her Gravitational Pull special, so this does force him to have to do the more direct approach.

It makes me think that Bowser Jr.'s projectiles aren't meant for pressure but more to cover his approach. The Mechakoopa in particular is good at this since it sticks around for a while.

Although I'm still at a bit of a loss how the cannonball is supposed to be used, even with that mindset...

 

[ChikoLad]

Might work OK on slower and bigger characters, like his own father.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It makes me think that Bowser Jr.'s projectiles aren't meant for pressure but more to cover his approach. The Mechakoopa in particular is good at this since it sticks around for a while.

The thing is, Rosalina can use the Mecha-Koopas against Bowser Jr., since Gravitational Pull stops them in their tracks, and Rosalina can pick them up afterwards. Sure, the Mecha-Koopas may be a way for Bowser Jr. to cover his approaches, but against Rosalina, they're practically useless against her.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

The thing is, Rosalina can use the Mecha-Koopas against Bowser Jr., since Gravitational Pull stops them in their tracks, and Rosalina can pick them up afterwards. Sure, the Mecha-Koopas may be a way for Bowser Jr. to cover his approaches, but against Rosalina, they're practically useless against her.

Well Rosalina has her own special brand of "screw you" to anything projectile-based. I meant in general.

 

[Clemente]

Not trying to step on anyones toes but can we keep posts smash related?

It is Rosalina related, they're comparing her to puppet (pet) characters in other games.

 

[Life]

On the subject of Mecha Koopas, if Jr had enough time, couldn't he pick up his own Mecha Koopa and throw it at Rosalina to force the Gravpull and then punish that?

 

[SFA Smiley]

It's moreso the fact that we just have more control over them than he does, because once that thing's moving we have a ranged option for controlling it while he still has to pick it up by being close to it. Grav Pulling automatically makes it ours, even if we don't pick it up, it will target him.

But yeah it's not a particularly big factor in the MU, it's just fun to grav pull it, just because.

As far as what you're talking about though, maybe, but the mechakoopa becomes ours so if he tried to punish it he'd probably get blown up, himself

 

[HallowHaven]

Was going to comment on the Rosalina related stuff since I main her but then I saw this:

They're polarizing. Carl is bad in all but one version of Blazblue. PM Ice Climbers are not great. It's always been clear Rosalina would be useless or amazing.

As someone who plays BB competitively:

Carl has been great in every single version of BB besides CP 1.0, and even that itself is arguable since towards the end of the game's meta Carls with 17th Dan in Japan started popping up and doing Carl things. He has never been bad. He has always had something ridiculous, whether it's the clap loop (Which btw towards the end of CT he became top tier because of this and other ridiculous **** people found after CS came out), unblockable set ups that start from combos, etc. He's so threatening that every character honestly has to lame him out in the matchup and turtle/zone/attack Ada constantly.

In a sense, Rosalina is going to require the same mindset. People who do best against me have to lame me out and be really patient, otherwise I punish every approach and just go back to neutral afterwards. She's definitely a very solid character, but broken? It's month 1 (technically month 2), I think we need more time than that to make the claim lol

 

[smashbrolink]

Was going to comment on the Rosalina related stuff since I main her but then I saw this:



As someone who plays BB competitively:

Carl has been great in every single version of BB besides CP 1.0, and even that itself is arguable since towards the end of the game's meta Carls with 17th Dan in Japan started popping up and doing Carl things. He has never been bad. He has always had something ridiculous, whether it's the clap loop (Which btw towards the end of CT he became top tier because of this and other ridiculous **** people found after CS came out), unblockable set ups that start from combos, etc. He's so threatening that every character honestly has to lame him out in the matchup and turtle/zone/attack Ada constantly.

In a sense, Rosalina is going to require the same mindset. People who do best against me have to lame me out and be really patient, otherwise I punish every approach and just go back to neutral afterwards. She's definitely a very solid character, but broken? It's month 1 (technically month 2), I think we need more time than that to make the claim lol

I'd say there should be at least one decent draw-back to losing Luma, because at this stage, despite her history with the character, Luma is basically disposable as far as Rosalina is concerned, because even without the two moves that rely upon it, her close-up game is still so solid in the hands of a competent player that there's no real disadvantage given once its gone.

At the very least, it should take longer to respawn, or, it should affect her ability to recover in some way, and made ever-so-slightly tougher to knock out as a trade-off.
That would give Rossie players an incentive to use Luma much more cautiously and intelligently. She'd feel more like a character that's not given an extra advantage through Luma that doesn't really affect her in any big way when it's not around.
As things stand now, she's basically Ice Climbers with an ever-respawning partner that is much more directly controllable, even when Rossie is stunned.

 

[ChikoLad]

it should affect her ability to recover in some way, and made ever-so-slightly tougher to knock out as a trade-off.

Losing Luma does effect this. Rosalina can't attack while helpless after using her recovery. If Luma is present though, he can attack, and as a result, protect her. When Rosalina recovers without Luma, she can be intercepted more easily.

 

[smashbrolink]

Losing Luma does effect this. Rosalina can't attack while helpless after using her recovery. If Luma is present though, he can attack, and as a result, protect her. When Rosalina recovers without Luma, she can be intercepted more easily.

That's a thing for all characters, though.
Without Luma to cover her, she just goes back to being "on par" to the rest of the cast's disadvantages during recovery with their third jump.
That's not the same thing as having her recovering drastically effected by not having Luma around.

At the very least, her up B recovery distance should be shortened when Luma is knocked out. It's still not nearly as bad as IC's had it when their partner got KO'd, making it far more balanced.

 

[ChikoLad]

That's a thing for all characters, though.
Without Luma to cover her, she just goes back to being "on par" to the rest of the cast's disadvantages during recovery with their third jump.
That's not the same thing as having her recovering drastically effected by not having Luma around.

At the very least, her up B recovery distance should be shortened when Luma is knocked out. It's still not nearly as bad as IC's had it when their partner got KO'd, making it far more balanced.

Sonic, Mega Man, and Yoshi don't go helpless from their recovery. There might be more but off the top of my head, these three don't. Rosalina doesn't even have as big an advantage as them in this regard, since they always have this perk, while Rosalina needs Luma for it. So I'd hardly call it unbalanced, since other characters have it all of the time.

And Launch Star having less distance without Luma would make absolutely no conceivable sense. Launch Stars are a device that Mario used in Galaxy, Lumas had nothing to do with them (except for Lumas being able to transform into them, but this is not required for them to form).

The implication of the move in Smash Bros is that Rosalina is generating her own special version of a Launch Star (as it looks completely different), and this isn't hard to believe considering her god-like power in canon, and her association with anything to do with stars or the cosmos.

 

[ZombieBran]

Much of the cast have hitboxes on their recoveries as well. Many others have far more control and/or distance gained.

I definitely do not think her recovery is a huge part of why Rosalina is powerful.

 

[ChikoLad]

Also, Sonic gets invincibility frames on the way up in his recovery. So despite not being able to attack on the way up, he's well protected even on the way up. And his fast fall is very quick, while regular fall is not very fast vertical movement-wise, giving him a lot of options.

Rosalina is not protected at all on the way up/across (even Luma cannot attack on the way up/across), and is completely vulnerable if Luma is not around. On top of that, she falls quite slowly regardless of which type of falling she's in.

Rosalina's recovery serves no other purpose than to get her back on stage, to be used as an evasion/get-away tool, and to be used for off-stage mind games (this sort of groups under getting her back on stage, though). Also, you CAN use it to follow up on combos if Luma is present, but because the move is angled and such, this is harder to do than with Mega Man or Sonic, especially because Luma does not have as much range as them.