Is Rosalina the most broken character?

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina is suffering from the Dedede effect right now. Hardcore Amazing until people realize what she's all about and learn to counter her.

Game is still very new, dogs.

This applies to "every" fighter in the game though, so it's not just Rosalina that people have to figure out.

 

[Gerpington]

This applies to "every" fighter in the game though, so it's not just Rosalina that people have to figure out.

That's very true, and I apologize for wording it like that, senpai *cough*

I just mean more testing needs to be done and time needs to pass before stuff like this can really be determined.

Lets acquire solid match up data and analysis before debating on tier listing and op statuses.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That's very true, and I apologize for wording it like that, senpai *cough*

I just mean more testing needs to be done and time needs to pass before stuff like this can really be determined.

Lets acquire solid match up data and analysis before debating on tier listing and op statuses.

That's pretty much why the match-up discussion thread exists. Of course, online gaming is not enough, as tier placements also focus on competitive local tournaments.

 

[Gerpington]

That's pretty much why the match-up discussion thread exists. Of course, online gaming is not enough, as tier placements also focus on competitive local tournaments.

Yeah...I just think people are jumping to conclusions far to early, though I guess past games people did too and not all of them were wrong.

..I'll go to my room.

 

[Clemente]

Well, I have no real doubt that as people play more, certain characters which may seem suckish now are going to be considered great later. But I think saying characters like Rosalina is going to possibly drop as people get better is just crazy because the way the character works, its hitboxes... it's not just going to suddenly stop working that way (other than through patches)

 

[otter]

In most fighting games yes, in Smash Bros (well Smash Bros 4) no. It's really easy for a Rosalina to stall for 8 seconds. Or at the very least, it comes back way too fast for something that sucks up 100% of the damage in front of Rosalina, even if let's say she is vulnerable for those 8 seconds.

That doesn't take into account that when luma respawns, you will already have optimal range against her. Rosalina pretty much can only jab at close range whether luma is there or not.

 

[Swedish_Otaku]

So so ****ing OP. You can't ****ing hit her if she keeps attacking. I've only met one who I can't beat. Cause he just backs up and I can't tell where he hitboxes are.

 

[ChikoLad]

Rosalina will only thrive more in stages with platforms, as both Rosalina and Luma have plenty of attacks that go right through platforms, and they are hard hitting attacks. And technically, all of Lumas attacks will easily go through if you position him in such a way.

I don't think Rosalina is under the Dedede effect at all.

The Rosalina meta will never stop evolving, as she objectively has more possibilities than any other character, and just has too much she can possibly do. She's not bound to being rushdown, campy, or anything. It's really up to the player. While most other characters are stuck with a specific style of play they excel at.

Rosalina is the one character I think will show off the raw skill of each individual player.

EDIT: Also this seems relevant:

 

[Life]

Yeah I can't get that "infinite" to remotely work at all. Luma does jab 3 when I try to imitate the timing.

 

[ChikoLad]

I can get it to work. Not to the point where I KO them as the timing is difficult and I am tired, but I can get them to 30% and upwards, which is still incredibly useful.

 

[Clemente]

Not surprised at all.

 

[ZombieBran]

I definitely wouldn't compare Rosalina to Dedede.
Her kit has far more options and variety. I agree that she probably has more potential "unlockable power" than any other character, she is just that versatile. I can only imagine as her meta develops that she'll get even stronger.

 

[[Corn]]

I can get it to work. Not to the point where I KO them as the timing is difficult and I am tired, but I can get them to 30% and upwards, which is still incredibly useful.

Honestly the timing is just hit sheik in the head on the way down, croutch if you need a visual, and repeat.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

She was bound to either be broken or useless. I personally cannot even play as Rosalina, I do not get how to use her at all. The Rosies I faced online weren't too horrible to defeat though.

 

[ADAPT Chance]

I don't know about her being OP.

She's annoying to fight against especially if your character has a hard time applying pressure on her.

Right now she seems a bit brain dead but that will most likely change as we learn more about the game and every character,

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

She was bound to either be broken or useless. I personally cannot even play as Rosalina, I do not get how to use her at all. The Rosies I faced online weren't too horrible to defeat though.

Rosalina is a type of fighter who seems to operate better in 1-on-1 matches, than in matches with multiple players. She also seems to be someone who prefers to fight defensively, waiting for her adversary to come to her, and taking advantage of any mistakes that the adversary makes.

Of course, how well Rosalina can utilize her defensive game does depend on who she's facing, as there are a couple fighters who can give her some problems.

 

[WabbitSeason]

From what I can tell right now, she is utterly broken in comparison to most of the cast. Projectiles are completely void against her and the spacing is unreal.

 

[ChikoLad]

Rosalina is a type of fighter who seems to operate better in 1-on-1 matches, than in matches with multiple players. She also seems to be someone who prefers to fight defensively, waiting for her adversary to come to her, and taking advantage of any mistakes that the adversary makes.

Of course, how well Rosalina can utilize her defensive game does depend on who she's facing, as there are a couple fighters who can give her some problems.

"Preferring to fight defensively" is entirely preference and match-up dependant.

 

[Clemente]

I guess my thoughts weren't as off as some of you were saying early on in the thread. First national tournament in NYC, Rosalina & Luma played like crazy -- Rosalina & Luma winner of the whole thing.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

"Preferring to fight defensively" is entirely preference and match-up dependant.

I guess it can depend on who Rosalina is fighting sometimes.

 

[ChikoLad]

I haven't watched the tournament but I'm so happy Rosalina won.

I wouldn't start calling her broken yet but she's kickin' ass and takin' names.

 

[Clemente]

No, she has very exploitable weaknesses. I don't even think she's top tier.

shes low tier without luma. shes basically zelda with no b moves.

Rosalina is definitely not broken, people need to stop the nonsense lol. Get her in the air and she has some very exploitable weaknesses, landing is a ***** with this chick. People like little mac and greninja definitely give us problems.

All the people I proved wrong.

Stupidest of all is KasperUK, who says "get her in the air and she's weak", lol

 

[ChikoLad]

Let's not turn this thread into personal attacks and "I'm right, you're wrong" talk.

 

[WabbitSeason]

All the people I proved wrong.

Stupidest of all is KasperUK, who says "get her in the air and she's weak", lol

People are indeed downplaying her strength, but I'm going to be honest and will say her weaknesses are far outshined by strengths. Trying to catch her in the air is nigh impossible because of how Luma works and her mobility. The fact that all projectiles (even Bowser Jr.'s cannonball, D3's Gordo, etc.) are whisked away all at once pretty much puts her at the advantage vs. any projectile users. That pretty much sets her up to dominate a lot of the other top end characters like Bowser Jr., Diddy, etc.

And Little Mac isn't even a strong counter to a good Ros/Luma. One grab and you're toast. Yeah he can rush down, but she spaces too well for an approach.

 

[SFA Smiley]

All the people I proved wrong.

Stupidest of all is KasperUK, who says "get her in the air and she's weak", lol

How did you prove me wrong?

 

[WabbitSeason]

How did you prove me wrong?

Rosalina and Luma won an NYC regional. But I'd disagree with you on the notion that she isn't top tier. There simply are not that many characters who explicitly beat her in the MU. Almost everyone relying on projectiles gets hard countered and spacing with Luma is god-like.

More specifically, who would you say surpasses her on the tier in a rough sense?

 

[Clemente]

Rosalina and Luma won an NYC regional.

Well technically it was a national tournament, there were people from all over the country there.

 

[ChikoLad]

Technically, Dabuns (winner of the tournament, may have got the name wrong) "proved" Rosalina's detractors "wrong". Not anybody here in this discussion.

Just throwing that out there.

 

[WabbitSeason]

Technically, Dabuns (winner of the tournament, may have got the name wrong) "proved" Rosalina's detractors "wrong". Not anybody here in this discussion.

Just throwing that out there.

But I have not seen how Rosalina is not top tier or confirmation on whether or not her weaknesses really do mean that much in her game.

After all, Meta Knight in Brawl had arguably some weaknesses, but they were simply so outweighed by his strengths it didn't matter.

 

[Clemente]

Technically, Dabuns (winner of the tournament, may have got the name wrong) "proved" Rosalina's detractors "wrong". Not anybody here in this discussion.

Just throwing that out there.

I was semi-joking with that "People I personally proved wrong" post. Still, there shouldn't be much arguing with me now. Those ridiculous, ridiculous hitboxes were on full display.

BTW, Dabuz the winner wasn't the only person using Rosalina and getting really far with it.

 

[SFA Smiley]

That's not even a real national lol. The people who entered got there by winning FFA Item qualifying rounds.

Dabuz is also already one of the best players, so it's not really saying anything.

My argument was that Rosalina isn't broken and that she is top tier AT THE MOMENT because nobody knows the matchup

And I could be wrong about that and made that point clear, i came im curious and asking questions you got butthurt. I don't care about being wrong. Oh no, life goes on and I am more knowledgeable for next time.

BUt regardless you said Rosalina is broken and I don't believe that she is, i believe it's because of an early metagame which is why she seems so "dominant". I think she's really good, but I believe she's a much weaker character without Luma. An already strong player winning some tournament that doesn't even really count doesn't prove anything lol

Edit: But yeah the whole point of what i'm saying will be determined a period of time from now whether it's a few months or a year, anyway.

 

[ShadyWolfe]

It is a very new game it is too early to determine if any character is "broken" and some smashers are just throwing that around for characters like Rosalina, Duck Hunt Dog, Diddy Kong, Robin, Greninja, Sheik, Bowser, and Yoshi like dang people everything can not be broken.

 

[Clemente]

That's not even a real national lol. The people who entered got there by winning FFA Item qualifying rounds.

Dabuz is also already one of the best players, so it's not really saying anything.

My argument was that Rosalina isn't broken and that she is top tier AT THE MOMENT because nobody knows the matchup

And I could be wrong about that and made that point clear, i came im curious and asking questions you got butthurt. I don't care about being wrong. Oh no, life goes on and I am more knowledgeable for next time.

BUt regardless you said Rosalina is broken and I don't believe that she is, i believe it's because of an early metagame which is why she seems so "dominant". I think she's really good, but I believe she's a much weaker character without Luma. An already strong player winning some tournament that doesn't even really count doesn't prove anything lol

Edit: But yeah the whole point of what i'm saying will be determined a period of time from now whether it's a few months or a year, anyway.

Hate to say it, but you do sound kind of frustrated and possibly a little embarrassed that I proved you wrong.

It's funny how you start off by saying it's not even a real tournament and you needed no skill to get in/illegitimate, then you go on to say that one of the best players is who won. So which is it?

By the way, by the end of the tournament it was being played with no items/FS and FD for hazard stages, regardless of how people qualified.

Sorry but again, the broken aerials and generally broken hitboxes/juggling were on full display during this tournament, and not just from Dabuz.

 

[SFA Smiley]

^I mean you can keep projecting, if you want, I have no reason to be frustrated or upset, but sure if that's what you see it as

 

[WabbitSeason]

That's not even a real national lol. The people who entered got there by winning FFA Item qualifying rounds.

Dabuz is also already one of the best players, so it's not really saying anything.

My argument was that Rosalina isn't broken and that she is top tier AT THE MOMENT because nobody knows the matchup

And I could be wrong about that and made that point clear, i came im curious and asking questions you got butthurt. I don't care about being wrong. Oh no, life goes on and I am more knowledgeable for next time.

BUt regardless you said Rosalina is broken and I don't believe that she is, i believe it's because of an early metagame which is why she seems so "dominant". I think she's really good, but I believe she's a much weaker character without Luma. An already strong player winning some tournament that doesn't even really count doesn't prove anything lol

Edit: But yeah the whole point of what i'm saying will be determined a period of time from now whether it's a few months or a year, anyway.

Yes, the meta is early on, but on paper her moves are insane in relation to most of the cast. D3, Diddy, Duck Hunt, Villager etc. basically have no projectile game at all against her because of how good her nullification is. Arguably no other move nullifies so many projectiles so well.

Just look at the Brawl tier list, not many characters moved up or down that much. The spacing ability granted by Luma along with mobility/projectile nullification are pretty strong arguments that she's going to stay top tier for a while. I doubted Bowser would stay top tier because of how laggy his moves are and so far it's been proven right, he's dropped considerably.

 

[ZombieBran]

It is a very new game it is too early to determine if any character is "broken" and some smashers are just throwing that around for characters like Rosalina, Duck Hunt Dog, Diddy Kong, Robin, Greninja, Sheik, Bowser, and Yoshi like dang people everything can not be broken.

I don't see many people saying DHD, Robin, Greninja, Bowser, or Yoshi are "broken". Or even top tier. They're good, yes. But do they really compare to Sheik, Rosalina, Zamus?
They all have notable weaknesses. The three I mentioned have weaknesses certainly, but they're not very debilitating and can be worked around.

 

[WabbitSeason]

I don't see many people saying DHD, Robin, Greninja, Bowser, or Yoshi are "broken". Or even top tier. They're good, yes. But do they really compare to Sheik, Rosalina, Zamus?
They all have notable weaknesses. The three I mentioned have weaknesses certainly, but they're not very debilitating and can be worked around.

Bowser was only "OP" during the Nintendo free for all tournament. Don't know why. DH is strong because of his ridiculous range on attacks and camping ability, but people have figured him out some more. Yoshi, Greninja, and other fast characters are just that because they hit hard and have little lag. Robin's able to be dealt with.

Most of it has to do with knee jerk reactions before really looking at what the character brings to the table. Heck, ZSS is able to be exploited from what I can tell. Grab, forward B, etc. all of have big lag and her big thing is air combo'ing.

I agree on Ros and Sheik though. Out of all the characters like Greninja/Yoshi/Sheik, Sheik is the most dangerous. And Rosalina has some serious OP mechanics that ruin a lot of MU's. Just imagine playing DH against her and being able to use virtually no items while being outspaced.

 

[otter]

I was semi-joking with that "People I personally proved wrong" post. Still, there shouldn't be much arguing with me now. Those ridiculous, ridiculous hitboxes were on full display.

BTW, Dabuz the winner wasn't the only person using Rosalina and getting really far with it.

Not that you're getting out of this without looking like a *****, but how did you prove me wrong?

 

[SFA Smiley]

Because she's a weird character that has to be played a specific way.

Snake went through the same thing

You're saying all these things about me but you seem obsessed with proving something. I'm just saying give people time to figure the game out before you go calling characters broken.

She's good and has tools that will always make her good, but nobody has even developed anti-character tech for her yet

You know, like how people started catching and airdodge landing on diddy bananas? When people tilted their shields up on MK? When people started putting snakes in the air. The game has been out for a month (and only a week to most of the world)

I don't care if I am proven wrong, but i'm not going to make extremely drastic claims a week after people have been playing because that's just dumb to do. Especially in this case. I know she won't be bad so stop trying to convince me lol

if that's your goal you've already failed

the character isn't broken

 

[Clemente]

Essay

Holy crap. Damage control lol

Not that you're getting out of this without looking like a *****, but how did you prove me wrong?

In my opinion the ridiculous & broken hit boxes on Rosalina (with or without Luma) were on full display during the tournament being used by people who have played Smash internationally/competitively, and I don't think there should be any argument about her now.