Is Rosalina the most broken character?

[MasterOfKnees]

Rosalina is tall and can be killed very early, it's the same combination that helped throw Mewtwo down the bottom of the barrel in Melee, and on top of that she's too reliant on her Luma to be able to dominate throughout the entire match and her recovery is pretty **** as she goes into a helpless state. I've also noticed the Luma's AI can also be pretty damn stupid. Yes, her own attacks are decent, but for the most part they're also pretty sluggish, only a few select of her moves are actually good, the Luma does pack the better moveset out of the two.

Rosalina is good, but her flaws are far too many and too big to call her broken, once people get to know the matchup she's going to have a much harder time. Snake in Brawl is a good comparison, the top 5 of most early Brawl tournaments were only Snakes, but from there on out he only fell down due to people becoming much more aware of his mines and figuring out just how easy it was to gimp him, and even then I think Snake had many more strengths than Rosalina has in this game as he had godly setups and for some reason weighted a ton. Like I said, she is good, but people are over-exaggerating her strengths and downplaying her weaknesses.

Mind you I don't play Rosalina and I don't want to, I don't like the character at all, so this is not me trying to make her seem less good because I don't want to play an overpowered character (again), this is simply me stating my observations fighting against her.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

After playing with Rosalina since the game's launch, I can tell you that being without Luma isn't a big deal. Rosalina has enough tools to deal damage and overall find ways of stalling until Luma comes back.

Rosalina actually has some decent "get off me" attacks. Her down-tilt comes out fast, her Nair hitbox last longer then expected, and let's not forget her dash attack.

However, her real true fault is that most of her attacks, even with Luma, have great ending lag. The come out quick sure, but if you miss, the opponent can easily take advantage of it.

Then the aerials also quite of bit of lag when you hit the ground as well. If you miss with Nair, Bair, or Fair, you are stuck on the ground for about a second.

Rosalina, is the type of characters who forces other players to make mistakes due to having to deal with the Luma and unexpected hitboxes, however, Rosalina herself is a character that is both easy to make a mistake with, and for the opponent to capitalize on it. She's not broken, believe me.

 

[Nebulax]

She's very good, especially in the hands of a skillful player. But not meta knight broken.

 

[EgeDal]

In random online, you can only use the standard Launch Star. You can angle it, but it doesn't deal any damage. Also, Launch Star's momentum doesn't stop when the move ends.

Launch Star Plus is simply a faster version of the standard Launch Star, but you can't angle it; Rosalina will always travel at about an 80 degree angle.

Launch Star Attack has a shorter travel distance than the standard Launch Star, but it can damage anyone that it comes into contact with. The momentum of this Launch Star variant does stop when it ends.

You can customize Rosalina's special moves once you've collected them.

oh you mean customizable, i know them. I just thought the standart Launch Star can vary

 

[Life]

If Luma is standing far in front of Rosalina, she can't threaten you. If Luma is behind her, it can't reach you at all. The key is to fight them one at a time and not get trapped between them (assuming they are desynced).

Luma might tank some damage, but it doesn't even try to recover if knocked offstage and it doesn't have a shield. And based on the Little Mac KO Punch kill percent chart, she's lighter than everyone except GnW, Jiggs, and Kirby.

On the flip side, her fair, ftilt, and dtilt are all solid, which makes her hard to get in on even when Luma is down.

I'm trying to work out Luma's AI in edgeguard situations, since I'm finding it hard to get outright kills with her. It's very simplistic.

 

[響「Hibiki」]

After 400 For Glory games with 93% win ratio, winning some reddit tournament and playing a good number of matches with friends of mine that are really strong players, I can tell you this:

Most people do not realize that whenever you launch Rosalina and don't have a safe follow-up/chase, you are supposed to kill the Luma.

Like, 80% of my matches people treat Luma as some sort of magical being that you can only run away from, but not fight head on.

My toughest matches are against people that actively try to remove Luma from play at every single opportunity to do so.

Rosalina is certainly one of the best characters in the game, but the fact that her strongest character aspect can be counterplayed (by launching Luma off stage/racking up enough damage on it) sets her off from a truly "broken" character, because those usually have aspects that simply can not be counterplayed.

It might still take a while for people to properly learn the matchup, but I am a hundred percent sure that people placing high in tournaments will know how to play against a Rosalina. She won't dominate, but she will be part of the best.

 

[ChikoLad]

She's not broken right now, but she very much has the potential to be. That's all I'll say on that.

She's going to be top tier regardless though. Her possibilities are too unlimited.

Also, I really wish people would stop touting "tall and light, she's just like Mewtwo" as a weakness. She's a completely different case:

-Rosalina doesn't have a huge tail with a hitbox.
-Mewtwo didn't have a minion, or an arguably broken projectile gimping move.
-Melee didn't have huge blast zones or vectoring.

Due to the huge blast zones of Smash 4, and vectoring, being a heavy character isn't actually as much of a boon anymore. Because everyone is surviving longer, and because off-stage follow ups are a more common thing (something that was not very doable in Brawl due to lack of hitstun, and something that was difficult in Melee due to the game's sheer speed overall),

Sure, Bowser drop kicks Rosalina at 150%, and she's done. But Rosalina can Side Smash Bowser at an even lower percent, and won't get a kill, BUT can easily follow up and get said kill because even without Luma, her aerials are really good, and Bowser's aren't (also, she has an amazing recovery).

So really, her lightweight ain't a big deal. She can kill at percents equal to what she would normally be killed at, if not lower percents.

I also disagree with the claims that fast rushdown characters are a problem for Rosalina, they really are not. Might be because I main Sonic too though, as that's trained my reflexes and I can hit other Sonic players just fine and confuse them with Rosalina, as well as other characters like that. Little Mac was trouble at first, but not anymore.

And Launch Star musn't be that predictable, literally nobody has killed me from it, or even gotten a hit in on me. It's an extremely safe recovery, she can even pass under the stage with it and over to the other side if you are good.

 

[KasperUK]

Rosalina is definitely not broken, people need to stop the nonsense lol. Get her in the air and she has some very exploitable weaknesses, landing is a ***** with this chick. People like little mac and greninja definitely give us problems.

 

[Beatness]

I think the only reason Rosalina might be considered broken now is simply because people haven't learned how to properly deal with her yet. She's not very fast and dies much faster than other characters. That alone makes her weak to characters that can combo well. So no, she's not the most broken character.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Just to be clear to everyone, Rosalina is nothing like the Ice Climbers in any way.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Just to be clear to everyone, Rosalina is nothing like the Ice Climbers in any way.

Well in the abstract layman view they're similar because the Ice Climbers were known for their desync shenanigans and resulting 2-on-1 combos. Plus infinite chaingrabs. Rosalina is basically that tactic given official form.

But yes, they work very differently in practice.

 

[gameprodigy12]

Rosalina is definitely not broken, people need to stop the nonsense lol. Get her in the air and she has some very exploitable weaknesses, landing is a ***** with this chick. People like little mac and greninja definitely give us problems.

Actually you get her in the air and your asking for her aerials to take priority over every else's. She's got one of the best aerial games in terms if priority.

 

[KasperUK]

Actually you get her in the air and your asking for her aerials to take priority over every else's. She's got one of the best aerial games in terms if priority.

lmao what are opponents getting hit by? greninja and lil mac's upsmashes go through what we have.

 

[Jesse Martinez]

Why is this still a thing? Rosie isn't broken, she's really good, but broken is definitely not even remotely a term that should be used to describe her.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Why is this still a thing? Rosie isn't broken, she's really good, but broken is definitely not even remotely a term that should be used to describe her.

Ditto. Broken basically goes with something that doesn't have any bad matchups. Rosalina doesn't even come close to competing with Brawl Meta Knight.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I agree to a point...She does seem to be one of the better fighters, but at the same time, if the Luma isn't alongside her, a lot of her strength is cut, her Side B is useless, and she has no ranged attacks. On top of this (though it has been mentioned) she is the 4th lightest character, so getting her off her feet isn't exactly a challenge. I know from playing online that Rosalina seems to be one of the easier characters to fight against with slower characters like Ike. She's really not THAT fast, and unless Luma is around, most of her attacks don't hit that hard. That being said, I do think with the right play style, she could very well be one of the most devastating fighters.

 

[KasperUK]

Does anyone know where I can find some frame data for rosalina and also discussions on matchups?

Also I cant wait until someone shows images or something of the sort in regards to rosa and luma's hitboxes. Would help in understanding her.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I agree to a point...She does seem to be one of the better fighters, but at the same time, if the Luma isn't alongside her, a lot of her strength is cut, her Side B is useless, and she has no ranged attacks. On top of this (though it has been mentioned) she is the 4th lightest character, so getting her off her feet isn't exactly a challenge. I know from playing online that Rosalina seems to be one of the easier characters to fight against with slower characters like Ike. She's really not THAT fast, and unless Luma is around, most of her attacks don't hit that hard. That being said, I do think with the right play style, she could very well be one of the most devastating fighters.

Ike does have his long-ranged sword, so that's one thing working to his advantage.

It's too bad that custom specials aren't allowed in random online matches, as I'm quite sure that some of Rosalina's custom specials can really make a difference for certain match-ups.

 

[Dragoomba]

I was thinking it might be Little Mac

looooool

Face my Doc. She'll die.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but Doc is pretty terrible in this game.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Ike does have his long-ranged sword, so that's one thing working to his advantage.

It's too bad that custom specials aren't allowed in random online matches, as I'm quite sure that some of Rosalina's custom specials can really make a difference for certain match-ups.

Oh dear god yes. I miss the Floaty Star Bit so much.

 

[zozo]

Rosa's recovery is terrible, she has to rack up more percent than the average character to kill, she's light, huge, her jump is super floaty, she's combo'd easily, she can't deal with rushdown esp once Luma's gone, and Luma is pretty easy to kill, her Luma shot is avoidable, etc. Anyone saying she's OP or broken is just bad at the game. Characters like Bowser, Bowser Jr, Yoshi, and Falcon all wreck Rosalina pretty hard. Those characters and other like Little Mac, Shulk, Robin, etc are so much better, yet you're saying ROSA of all characters is broken? LOL

Actually you get her in the air and your asking for her aerials to take priority over every else's. She's got one of the best aerial games in terms if priority.

Are you serious? I could see if you were this about Yoshi, or Falcon, or Sheik? But Rosalina? Do you really know what you're talking about?

 

[ZombieBran]

I don't understand how her recovery is terrible. Predictable? Non-damaging? Yes.
But terrible? It's pretty damn safe.

She's not broken. And I don't think she's even top tier. But she is damn good.

 

[zozo]

I don't understand how her recovery is terrible. Predictable? Non-damaging? Yes.
But terrible? It's pretty damn safe.

If you get knocked off the stage by a good player as Rosa, you're not getting back on. Simple as that, especially if it's a Little Mac, or a fast character like Greninja/Sonic/Sheik. Even Falcon. Also this is probably 3DS only, but sometimes when you're off the stage as Rosa, it's hard to tell what direction she's facing because either you can't see her on screen or the camera zooms out far and her model looks tiny, so when you up B she blasting off in the opposite direction of the stage to her death.

 

[ZombieBran]

If you get knocked off the stage by a good player as Rosa, you're not getting back on. Simple as that, especially if it's a Little Mac, or a fast character like Greninja/Sonic/Sheik. Even Falcon. Also this is probably 3DS only, but sometimes when you're off the stage as Rosa, it's hard to tell what direction she's facing because either you can't see her on screen or the camera zooms out far and her model looks tiny, so when you up B she blasting off in the opposite direction of the stage to her death.

I don't use really him and haven't fought a decent one yet; can Lil Mac stop her from sweetspotting the edge? Does he have options for when she recovers low?

Her aerials are pretty amazing and I've stopped attempts to edge guard me surprisingly easily, even without Luma. I dunno, I just personally think people are indeed underestimating solo Rosalina and her off stage game.

The second issue has not affected me much anymore.
I used to go flying off into the blast zone and wonder what happened but since then I've been careful to actually ensure I'm facing the right direction.

 

[Jesse Martinez]

Her recovery is fine, nothing too spectacular outside of how much range it has, that's one of her only issues.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I don't use really him and haven't fought a decent one yet; can Lil Mac stop her from sweetspotting the edge? Does he have options for when she recovers low?

Her aerials are pretty amazing and I've stopped attempts to edge guard me surprisingly easily, even without Luma. I dunno, I just personally think people are indeed underestimating solo Rosalina and her off stage game.

The second issue has not affected me much anymore.
I used to go flying off into the blast zone and wonder what happened but since then I've been careful to actually ensure I'm facing the right direction.

I've been footstooled by a Little Mac after I screwed up a gimp attempt (that was embarrassing...) but I think the main strength in Rosalina's recovery lies in how she can angle it. If you go full horizontal it literally covers the length of FD, so you can fly right over someone camping the edge. If you go vertical you can come back from the bottom camera edge almost. And anything in between. Her recovery is non-threatening, but in my experience she's floaty enough and Launch Star is flexible enough that you can afford to wait offstage and bait an edgeguard attempt, then shoot at an angle they didn't cover.

Also, if Luma is dead during all this, time spent offstage is time ticking by until it respawns.

 

[dedekong]

I played against a Rosalina today and it was the most annoying experience I've had with the game. Her lightness is quite irrelevant in the hands of a player that knows how to play defensively well. Killing Luma isn't that big a deal when she can handle things on her own and respawn Luma anyway. Rosalina is definitely a character that will be near the top if not at the top.

 

[gameprodigy12]

lmao what are opponents getting hit by? greninja and lil mac's upsmashes go through what we have.

I never get hit by Greninjas up smash after a dair hit or another way of easily avoiding it.

Are you serious? I could see if you were this about Yoshi, or Falcon, or Sheik? But Rosalina? Do you really know what you're talking about?

Yes I know what I'm talking about her aerials are good.

 

[ZombieBran]

Well I've changed my mind. I think Rosalina is indeed somewhere in the top tier. At worst high tier.

Still not broken. Barring some stupid mechanic discovery (Aura? lol), I don't see anyone in the cast being MK level dominant.

 

[Jesse Martinez]

Yes I know what I'm talking about her aerials are good.

They're active for days, have good coverage, and have decent priority, only a few characters have a better airgame imo.

 

[Clemente]

After 400 For Glory games with 93% win ratio, winning some reddit tournament and playing a good number of matches with friends of mine that are really strong players, I can tell you this:

Most people do not realize that whenever you launch Rosalina and don't have a safe follow-up/chase, you are supposed to kill the Luma.

Like, 80% of my matches people treat Luma as some sort of magical being that you can only run away from, but not fight head on.

My toughest matches are against people that actively try to remove Luma from play at every single opportunity to do so.

Rosalina is certainly one of the best characters in the game, but the fact that her strongest character aspect can be counterplayed (by launching Luma off stage/racking up enough damage on it) sets her off from a truly "broken" character, because those usually have aspects that simply can not be counterplayed.

It might still take a while for people to properly learn the matchup, but I am a hundred percent sure that people placing high in tournaments will know how to play against a Rosalina. She won't dominate, but she will be part of the best.

Just wondering, you do realize that Luma respawns very quickly?

Are you serious? I could see if you were this about Yoshi, or Falcon, or Sheik? But Rosalina? Do you really know what you're talking about?

Do you? He's right. Rosalina's aerials, on her own, are totally broken. They go on way too long and they have ridiculous hitboxes. They take priority over almost every other character in the air. It's strange.

BTW, it's funny that Rosalina's are saying that up-B could be one of her weaknesses when my Pit has the same exact up-B and it's supposed to one of his strengths.

 

[Jesse Martinez]

Do you? He's right. Rosalina's aerials, on her own, are totally broken. They go on way too long and they have ridiculous hitboxes. They take priority over almost every other character in the air. It's strange.

BTW, it's funny that Rosalina's are saying that up-B could be one of her weaknesses when my Pit has the same exact up-B and it's supposed to one of his strengths.

Well Pit has access to more than just a singular double jump, so that's probably one of the main reasons, and yeah her air normals are good, but the character as a whole isn't broken. If we're arguing over semantics, broken would imply that Rosie is so good she would make all the other characters irrelevant and nearly unusable. even the character right underneath her in second place, that isn't really the case.

 

[ChikoLad]

Pit's Up B is more predictable than Rosalina's as it goes in a straight line and the momentum is abruptly lost at the end. Rosalina's arcs, and doesn't abruptly lose momentum, and you have more options with that.

 

[Gerpington]

Rosalina is suffering from the Dedede effect right now. Hardcore Amazing until people realize what she's all about and learn to counter her.

Game is still very new, dogs.

 

[Jesse Martinez]

Rosalina is suffering from the Dedede effect right now. Hardcore Amazing until people realize what she's all about and learn to counter her.

Game is still very new, dogs.

It's the same for every fighting game that comes out of course several characters are going to seem really good; but calling a character broken without an established meta and tourney results to back it up is just silly.

 

[dedekong]

Rosalina is suffering from the Dedede effect right now. Hardcore Amazing until people realize what she's all about and learn to counter her.

Game is still very new, dogs.

I agree with parts of this and disagree with other parts. I don't believe Rosalina is broken or anything, but identifying a powerful character early on isn't unprecedented. I still remember a few members like gimpyfish reporting on how good metaknight was during that Early Brawl demo and alas we saw the end results. I think what makes Rosalina different from Dedede's situation is that none of her praise is coming from raw power or exploits, which is what Dedede had in addition to some major weaknesses (recovery, speed, size, etc). Rosalina, in my opinon, is seeming like a character that will be able to thrive in the campy For Glory nature of Smash 3DS. This could change for the better in tournament play As we get platforms and counter picks, but it could also get worse. I'm just hoping people do find perfect counters for her because reaching her is such a chore that you have to stop thinking about using the character you're good with, and consider who is good against Rosalina. And that is usually a sign of an OP character.

 

[Gerpington]

I agree with parts of this and disagree with other parts. I don't believe Rosalina is broken or anything, but identifying a powerful character early on isn't unprecedented. I still remember a few members like gimpyfish reporting on how good metaknight was during that Early Brawl demo and alas we saw the end results. I think what makes Rosalina different from Dedede's situation is that none of her praise is coming from raw power or exploits, which is what Dedede had in addition to some major weaknesses (recovery, speed, size, etc). Rosalina, in my opinon, is seeming like a character that will be able to thrive in the campy For Glory nature of Smash 3DS. This could change for the better in tournament play As we get platforms and counter picks, but it could also get worse. I'm just hoping people do find perfect counters for her because reaching her is such a chore that you have to stop thinking about using the character you're good with, and consider who is good against Rosalina. And that is usually a sign of an OP character.

I agree with you. I don't think she'll fall far, but I don't think she will be the top of the top. In the end I expect her to be high-mid tier or low high tier at best.

 

[響「Hibiki」]

Just wondering, you do realize that Luma respawns very quickly?

About 8 seconds is a lot of time. There's also the fact that Luma is extremely vulnerable on respawn, so if you time it properly you can get rid of it again immediately.

 

[Clemente]

About 8 seconds is a lot of time. There's also the fact that Luma is extremely vulnerable on respawn, so if you time it properly you can get rid of it again immediately.

In most fighting games yes, in Smash Bros (well Smash Bros 4) no. It's really easy for a Rosalina to stall for 8 seconds. Or at the very least, it comes back way too fast for something that sucks up 100% of the damage in front of Rosalina, even if let's say she is vulnerable for those 8 seconds.

 

[響「Hibiki」]

In most fighting games yes, in Smash Bros (well Smash Bros 4) no. It's really easy for a Rosalina to stall for 8 seconds. Or at the very least, it comes back way too fast for something that sucks up 100% of the damage in front of Rosalina, even if let's say she is vulnerable for those 8 seconds.

I don't know what you are talking about, last time I checked Luma didn't sucks up 100% of the damage in front of Rosalina, unless you are spamming Fox lasers at her from the other side of the map.

Maybe try presenting proper arguments if you want to be taken seriously.