Is C-Stick frowned upon?

[Galgatha]

Obviously a cpu wont do that, hence why i also do online matches from time to time. I understand that CPU's can be predictable;e, but so can human beings. That chain grab is interesting, but not unbeatable at all. And no, is doesn't hurt me to not play with the c-stick.

It is my playstyle, and using the c-stick feels unnatural to me (idk why, it just does). I've seen a few of these "advanced techniques" and once again, while interesting, not unbeatable.

Personally right now you sound like those "hot key everything" pvpers in both WoW and GW2 (sorry for OT, just fits). What you are basically saying is that if i don't play YOUR way, the way i play must be bad. That is not the case. There are different ways how you can play the same Character (granted they don't differ too much, but the sequence of how/when you use your moves does).

Also to point out

I can't stress it enough, face someone who's actually good with the characters, someone who knows what they're doing with falco fox, etc, both in melee and brawl(so that way you can also learn just how drastically different each game plays, the games physics and the changes to the characters are so drastically different between games, that most characters you don't play even remotely similar to how they are in the other game) because again, as i said, you and your buddies "thinking" your good, and the reality are two very very different things, if y'all go to a tournament and see some of the ways how people use the characters you'll realize just much catching up y'all need to do.

Just reeks of arrogance. Im sorry but it does, and it's not one of those "well i refuse to listen so your being a big meany" moments either.

To say that neither me nor my friends are really good, when you haven't seen any of us actually play, does speak of arrogance even if just by a little bit. Granted i can be arrogant too by how i sound, but i have SEEN them play, and i've watched a TON of videos of recent matches both on here and youtube. And from what i've gathered, we do not have THAT much catching up to do as you suggest.

Just like how you claimed other people adapt in the middle of a fight, well so do me and my friends (obviously). So we see a move once, we automatically know that we should avoid it/counter it and we plan ways in our head to combat that move if it was to show it's head again.

Also...it's "you all" not "y'all" for crying out loud >_>

I'd actually love to have an online match against you, to try and prove my point. Granted the lag can be devastating at times but i adapt fairly well after a bit.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Wi-Fi is not anywhere close to comparable to fighting players. 6 frames of forced input lag + connection lag + Ike. No matter who wins in a Wi-Fi match it doesn't prove a thing either way.

Do not criticize others for their use of colloquialisms. There's nothing wrong with the contraction "Y'all," and it is much nicer sounding than the archaic "Thou."

There's no such word as ">_>" either but apparently that's fine to use for you.

 

[MR. K]

alright i'll bite, i'll face you in a wifi match, Rather than write up a huge wot again since i gotta leave with in the next hour, i'll just face you, like kink-link said its not exactly the best option either since the wifi lag to a degree does hinder a players performance, but it'll be effecting us both so w/e, I will say if the lag is so atrocious that its practically unplayable, i'll probably DC at the start bc no one wants to play through a match that laggy, regardless of who would win.

I will say right out that you missed one of my points that facing cpus and mostly cpus, is gonna develop bad habits because people do not play like cpus, you will be completely and totally unprepared for the things people do if all you do is train against cpus, and your 2-3 buddies who do the same.


And i'll say y'all all i like and you can just deal with it Yankee.

now here's my FC 4084-1770-9673


EDIT: well it seems you've went afk now.

so lets say around 3:30 central time then, as i have to get going now for a bit.

EDIT2: back again....still no response :/

 

[Galgatha]

alright i'll bite, i'll face you in a wifi match, Rather than write up a huge wot again since i gotta leave with in the next hour, i'll just face you, like kink-link said its not exactly the best option either since the wifi lag to a degree does hinder a players performance, but it'll be effecting us both so w/e, I will say if the lag is so atrocious that its practically unplayable, i'll probably DC at the start bc no one wants to play through a match that laggy, regardless of who would win.

I will say right out that you missed one of my points that facing cpus and mostly cpus, is gonna develop bad habits because people do not play like cpus, you will be completely and totally unprepared for the things people do if all you do is train against cpus, and your 2-3 buddies who do the same.


And i'll say y'all all i like and you can just deal with it Yankee.

now here's my FC 4084-1770-9673


EDIT: well it seems you've went afk now.

so lets say around 3:30 central time then, as i have to get going now for a bit.

EDIT2: back again....still no response :/

Ugh i do meet up with my GF for her lunch, get back and cant access my stupid wii!!! >_> fam watching a movie...QQ hope i can get on soon if that's cool with you...

 

[Galgatha]

Wi-Fi is not anywhere close to comparable to fighting players. 6 frames of forced input lag + connection lag + Ike. No matter who wins in a Wi-Fi match it doesn't prove a thing either way.

Do not criticize others for their use of colloquialisms. There's nothing wrong with the contraction "Y'all," and it is much nicer sounding than the archaic "Thou."

There's no such word as ">_>" either but apparently that's fine to use for you.

Of course :D because that is supposed to be a facial expression that i cannot make in RL roflmao

And ya i know it doesn't equate to fighting people in RL, but if fighting a cpu is a bad thing, it's my best alternative don't you think???

 

[MR. K]

actually no its not.

your best alternative would technically be wifi even with how laggy and bad it can get sometimes, and how its impossible to truly play at your absolute best, its still better than playing against a computer that will teach you bad habits, and force you into a predictable pattern.

The only thing cpus would ever be good for are very specific things like the ice climbers chaingrab above, learning the timing on it on everycharacter in the game, even then though its still best to face a real player to learn how to actually land it in a real situation.


EDIT:

i'll just leave a room open and go back to wow

on a side note i found it kind of funny that you compared me to a "hardcore" wow player when i'm the exact opposite, i have no addons, i don't map anything to keys except an occasional humorous macro for certain moves, i've never been on a true raid before, and even though i have 4 different 90s none of them have any serious gear on em, i tend to spend most of my time helping guild mates making money or just chatting with em. When it comes to wow i'm probably as casual as casual can get

 

[Galgatha]

actually no its not.

your best alternative would technically be wifi even with how laggy and bad it can get sometimes, and how its impossible to truly play at your absolute best, its still better than playing against a computer that will teach you bad habits, and force you into a predictable pattern.

The only thing cpus would ever be good for are very specific things like the ice climbers chaingrab above, learning the timing on it on everycharacter in the game, even then though its still best to face a real player to learn how to actually land it in a real situation.

Dude.....re-read what i posted,. i said "it's my best alternative right?" in regards to playing over wifi.

Hope they fix the wifi with SSB4

 

[MR. K]

when you said in RL i assumed you meant offline.

if that is the case your best bet would be to not play at all except for the few times you do get a real person to play against, at the VERY least don't "practice" against any cpu with a character you plan to use against a serious opponent, course even then i wouldn't suggest ever facing cpus if you're trying to actually get better, most definitely not on a regular basis.


EDIT and read my edit of my other post...i'll leave a room open so join whenever.

 

[Galgatha]

when you said in RL i assumed you meant offline.

if that is the case your best bet would be to not play at all except for the few times you do get a real person to play against, at the VERY least don't "practice" against any cpu with a character you plan to use against a serious opponent, course even then i wouldn't suggest ever facing cpus if you're trying to actually get better, most definitely not on a regular basis.


EDIT and read my edit of my other post...i'll leave a room open so join whenever.

Alrighty well i got your FC so i'll add ya and try you out :D

Definetly interesting fights, i had fun. It's been awhile since i got to fight a person since friends went back to college. But i serously have to get used to that lag >_> i'd hit buttons then all of a sudden try and do something else and the other buttons would fire lol.

Though i did have fun.

 

[MR. K]

annnnnnnnd so i'll say again, how good you think you are, and the reality are two very different things.


a lot of those matches i used techs that are only possible with the c-stick/right analog stick on the CC(ice climbers, falco and snake just to name a couple.)

btw, you use dash attack, falco's side b, and his up special(especialy his up special) way to much, you started to get insanely easy to bait and read.

so the original point is still up, c-stick gives you more control, more options, and overall is essential in getting better.

anyhow ggs.

 

[Galgatha]

That sounds snarky, I admit i lost but i honestly don't care. I had fun, saw some decent moves, and am now better prepared.

But i stand by what i stated, i DO NOT use the c-stick because it feels too unnatural to me. If that puts up a larger wall than others, then so be it. I refine, practice combos, and have fun.

 

[MR. K]

well how else did you expect it to sound you're the one who took shots at me first in a few of your posts, and even tried to "correct" my grammar because i'm from down south and its very common to hear and use the term y'all here a lot.


Just bear in mind there are things that are impossible to do without a c-stick, things that are required to actually get better, things that without learning them, you will only be holding yourself back. there will come a point(provided you actually do try to get good) where you will have to suck it up and learn how to use the c-stick (whether its for DI, quick smashes, or advanced moves) if you plan to stand a chance.

 

[John12346]

A few things:


- MR.K, in Galgatha's defense, a lot of the wording in a few of your posts sounded a bit snide and elitist, and from all of the different back and forths that I've seen like this, it usually always goes:

"uninformed brawl remark" > "lol do you even know anything about this game" > "im pretty good among my friends/cpus" > "no way you gotta fight some REAL players" > (optional)brawl match occurs

but with a lot more salt and rage flying everywhere

And I KNOW that everything you said, it's all true, everything. And Galgatha was a pretty good sport about it, but I know for a fact these sorts of forum battles over Brawl can get on some people's nerves, so w/e, I figured I'd just mention it. I always figure it's better to watch one's tone when conversing with novice players and all that, you never know. But bottom line, don't take what I said the wrong way, everything you said in this thread was true, so yeah.



- Galgatha, it is true that you don't necessarily NEED the Cstick to play this game, but it definitely helps in a fighting game like this, where frame data is everything. Inputting aerials with the control stick and A or risking a few charge frames on a control stick enabled smash can be all it takes to make you lose the ever important speed battles in this game because you went and lagged behind by a few frames, for example. And as MR.K said, there are a lot of techniques you're missing out on by not using the Cstick at all, and you definitely should find a way to incorporate it into your gameplay..

But, as long as you're not using the Cstick because it feels uncomfortable to use to you and you're not following some unnecessary code of honor(I've seen some people who don't use the Cstick because they think it's a tool for scrubs), then I don't see any problems here. Just keep in mind that, if something is provided to you by the game, then it's completely fair to use(unless it causes the game to crash or makes the game unplayable), that was the point MR.K was trying to get across. In some cases, it's much more important to value comfort over functionality as long as you feel the tradeoff is worth it, but yeah, look into that Cstick thing, you might discover a few cool tricks and such.



- I've lived in NYC my whole life and I still use ya'll every once in a while JUSSAYIN

 

[KrIsP!]

Loooool scrubs are so cute :3

lol we all go through that stage, I wanted to bring a Staples Easy button to my first tourney...but everytime I see a newcomer post it reminds me of vegeta vs. pui pui.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bthV2eFZuCY

 

[BTmoney]

I do play competitively

This is so late and someone else possibly said this, but isn't this a red flag lol?

Every single competitive player uses the c-stick. Decent casual players use c-stick

I can't even remember the last time someone said using the c-stick was cheap lol

 

[Galgatha]

A few things:


- MR.K, in Galgatha's defense, a lot of the wording in a few of your posts sounded a bit snide and elitist, and from all of the different back and forths that I've seen like this, it usually always goes:

"uninformed brawl remark" > "lol do you even know anything about this game" > "im pretty good among my friends/cpus" > "no way you gotta fight some REAL players" > (optional)brawl match occurs

but with a lot more salt and rage flying everywhere

And I KNOW that everything you said, it's all true, everything. And Galgatha was a pretty good sport about it, but I know for a fact these sorts of forum battles over Brawl can get on some people's nerves, so w/e, I figured I'd just mention it. I always figure it's better to watch one's tone when conversing with novice players and all that, you never know. But bottom line, don't take what I said the wrong way, everything you said in this thread was true, so yeah.



- Galgatha, it is true that you don't necessarily NEED the Cstick to play this game, but it definitely helps in a fighting game like this, where frame data is everything. Inputting aerials with the control stick and A or risking a few charge frames on a control stick enabled smash can be all it takes to make you lose the ever important speed battles in this game because you went and lagged behind by a few frames, for example. And as MR.K said, there are a lot of techniques you're missing out on by not using the Cstick at all, and you definitely should find a way to incorporate it into your gameplay..

But, as long as you're not using the Cstick because it feels uncomfortable to use to you and you're not following some unnecessary code of honor(I've seen some people who don't use the Cstick because they think it's a tool for scrubs), then I don't see any problems here. Just keep in mind that, if something is provided to you by the game, then it's completely fair to use(unless it causes the game to crash or makes the game unplayable), that was the point MR.K was trying to get across. In some cases, it's much more important to value comfort over functionality as long as you feel the tradeoff is worth it, but yeah, look into that Cstick thing, you might discover a few cool tricks and such.



- I've lived in NYC my whole life and I still use ya'll every once in a while JUSSAYIN

I lost the matches, he played better than i did. Granted he may be more used to the lag factor in wifi matches than i am, but he won. I think they might have been closer if it was in RL than wifi, but it is what it is.

I am able to swallow my pride and say that i lost, if i indeed did lose. Lol but i had alot of fun.

But as i said, the c-stick feels unnatural to me. If that means i can't chain-grab, then i can't chain-grab. I only use my grab abilities to give me openings to use my Dair. Just my play style.

But what kinda ticked me off after i lost was this remark-

there will come a point(provided you actually do try to get good)

Yes, i may have lost the matches, but i personally think that just for some wifi matches that went a little far >_>

Ah well, still searching for tourneys near my place before i ship out....QQ i don't wanna go..

 

[KrIsP!]

I don't play brawl but I'm willing to bet the guy hasn't played a wifi match since the game came out. Just goes to show, find your local community yo.

 

[MR. K]

Well to be fair the part that ticked me off was when you tried to "correct" my grammar, that was one of the main reasons my last post after the matches was so hateful/snide.

and the c-stick doesn't help you chaingrab, rather the other things i did with it like causing falco to go immediately from his dash attack into his upsmash(basically cancelling the dash attack into an upsmash) or snake sliding half across the stage in his up smash, or the ice climbers being able to have the cpu controlled one perform one of their smash moves while i still had you in a grab with the other one, as well as me being able to DI so well(look it up on smashWiki, or have someone here like John PM you explaining what DI is, one of the most important things you need to learn), just to name a few...


*ALL* of those things required a c-stick to perform, and if you refuse to ever use the c-stick, you will *NEVER* be able to perform any of em. At the end of the day its still just holding yourself back by refusing to use it at all, like John said, you should at least find some way to work it into your gameplay, even if its only to learn falco's DACUS(dash attack cancle up smash)

 

[Galgatha]

Well to be fair the part that ticked me off was when you tried to "correct" my grammar, that was one of the main reasons my last post after the matches was so hateful/snide.

Well that was probably going far. Idk why, was just in a bad mood that day. Calmed down since then and ya, that was kinda a jerk move for me to put into the post.

Lol, honestly wasn't even IN the post at first, i decided to edit it in XD roflmao.

I'm gonna let bygones be bygones, hope to fight you again.

I found a tounrey in march actually about 1 1/2 hours away from where i live, hoping i can go to that :D. Lets see how far i actually get in a RL match :D

 

[Blacknight99923]

And no, is doesn't hurt me to not play with the c-stick.

lolololololololololol

mm 100$?

you will never be able to SDI, retreating aerial, and dacus,.


Stop shooting yourself in the foot

 

[Galgatha]

lolololololololololol

mm 100$?

you will never be able to SDI, retreating aerial, and dacus,.


Stop shooting yourself in the foot

Well i guess im about to see how good i am at a tourney near my place in march. Lets see how far my non-c-stick style takes me.

Also, stop acting like a troll? If you actually read my posts, i don't play with c-stick because i don't like the feel of it. And if i don't like the feel of it, it hinders my play.

So....i don't play with c-stick

 

[Linkshot]

Galgatha here's the thing.

Falco isn't high on the tier list just because he's Falco. Falco is high on the tier list because one specific strategy of his can trump most of the game. Your "playstyle" is not this strategy. Until you adopt the strategy, you will not be our definition of good. In fact, you're currently meeting most requirements for the definition of scrub.

If you truly want to get better at Smash and rise in the ladder, you have to leave your comfort zone and find one within competitive bounds.

Fighting games are not utopian.

 

[Galgatha]

Galgatha here's the thing.

Falco isn't high on the tier list just because he's Falco. Falco is high on the tier list because one specific strategy of his can trump most of the game. Your "playstyle" is not this strategy. Until you adopt the strategy, you will not be our definition of good. In fact, you're currently meeting most requirements for the definition of scrub.

If you truly want to get better at Smash and rise in the ladder, you have to leave your comfort zone and find one within competitive bounds.

Fighting games are not utopian.

Uh-hu....well then i'll see how far i go with the upcoming tounrey near my house. Wont be untill march but w/e.

And tbh, i don't care if i meet your definition of good, because that doesn't matter to me. In the end all that matters to me is fun. Thats all i play for.

 

[John12346]

Well, we're talking about playing to win. The Cstick would definitely assist with that if you gave it a fair deal of practice, and it would put a few more techniques at your disposal for use. Like I said though, if you feel that these techniques are not worth the tradeoff of using the apparently uncomfortable Cstick, then that's your decision and that's all fine and good. However, in the context of playing to win, a player would definitely want to explore all of their options, and that includes the Cstick, because having more options in a game basically gives your opponent more things to worry about. Something to keep in mind, to be sure.

But playing to have fun is always important too. I feel that a lot of competitive players have lost touch with the fact that Brawl is ultimately just a game and more of a way of life and can't even find it in themselves to crack a smile after a tournament match. Plus, if you have fun playing the game, it actually helps with a lot of nerve problems that a lot of people just entering the scene can experience, so...

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I don't get it. What's wrong with a stick? One way I use two thumbs. Another method I use one thumb. Both give me the same result. I don't get the issue there in this line of reasoning.

 

[crush]

c stick is cheap af

don't use it !!

 

[KrIsP!]

crush knows his ****, he's the best 10 year old brawl player to ever play with a wiimote sideways.

 

[z00ted]

Why is this thread getting so much attention?

 

[Linkshot]

Because we're talking about the cute-stick and how cute people react to it.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

you will never be able to SDI, retreating aerial, and dacus,.

Stop shooting yourself in the foot

Actually, none of these are extremely important compared to the game's overall basics. SDI is a defensive mechanic. Avoid the bad situation and you will not need it. Besides, there is the work around some what in the form of regular DI and the ASDI. The multi- hitting moves like jab or g&w Bair are examples of where I have noticed ASDI is enough to get a punish. Against Sheik's jab you ASDI out, then just jab back or something like that. g&w is a little more tricky since you cannot buffer the aerial out of the SDI, but it can work.

Retreating aerials are not as much of a big deal either. With quick hands this can easily be done. Finally, dacus is only important to specific characters since it actually does something noticable: snake, wolf, wario, jiggs, falco, sheik, sonic, falcon... I forget the rest. But its like only a 1/3 of the cast at max. So depending upon the character it doesn't matter. Hell, razer makes it work with snake using a mote n'chuck.

Galgatha here's the thing.

Falco isn't high on the tier list just because he's Falco. Falco is high on the tier list because one specific strategy of his can trump most of the game. Your "playstyle" is not this strategy. Until you adopt the strategy, you will not be our definition of good. In fact, you're currently meeting most requirements for the definition of scrub.

If you truly want to get better at Smash and rise in the ladder, you have to leave your comfort zone and find one within competitive bounds.

I call BS on this. There is not one strategy for any character unless you are being super general for all things in this game such as "make other character have less stocks".

If you are referring to a playstyle, this is incorrect as well since there are multiple strategic routes available depending upon the match-up and stage being played on. I'd like to see the phantasm to escape a bad situation work on brinstar or rainbow cruise. But, it doesn't, so you have to adapt and change it up.

Falco is good not because of a strategy, he is good because he has the tools to deal with the stages and other characters in this game. Aggressive play with falco and foregoing camping will still work if you can outplay your opponent, it merely has a higher risk associated with it. The camp play is generally preferred as it has a lower risk and makes it harder to be outplayed.

And fighting within a standard competitive mindset can be one's downfall at times as well. By doing so, you become more predictable by reducing your options in a given situation. Many times those options are bad, but by completely avoiding it you do become easier to read. Use g&w's dthrow for example. I'm scared of the dsmash coming up after it, so I'll always tech. Okay, I just gave my opponent three options they have to cover every dthrow. But, if I throw in the "bad" option of no tech, they have to cover 4 options now. Nice, I just improved my options out of a bad situation and made it harder for them to cover everything.

 

[Linkshot]

I'd like to see the phantasm to escape a bad situation work on brinstar or rainbow cruise.

I stopped reading at this part because those stages are banned. Rainbow Cruise is banned because the only viable strategy is to camp walkoffs and abuse airspeed. Brinstar...meh, I have no gripes with Brinstar, but I can still laser laser phantasm there, and I can make it trickier thanks to the awkward terrain.

Kept reading, and your teching example is poor because that's a mixup, not a grand strategy. With Falco, the guy said he only uses grabs to get a dAir, which means he probably isn't chaingrabbing or leading into DACUS. Falco is a very straightforward character with maybe two viable strategies, both campy, and both chaingrabby.

Sometimes when you're presented with options, one choice is always better than the others. If he refuses to pick that choice because of his "playstyle", then he's preventing himself from being good. That simple.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Brinstar and RC are region or TO specific for CPs. Wouldn't necessarily assume its reached 100% banned consensus status yet like Pictochat or Jungle Japes have by now. If you do look around at many tournaments you'll see more apex rulesets running around, but Brinstar and RC do show up and therefore shouldn't be ignored just because some regions don't use it. Either way, the only reason it was brought up was to illustrate the point of differing strategies are necessary at times due to the stage. I was thinking of a match-up example in regards to different distances come with different risks therefore your strategy changes based on that. So, again saying only one strategy or a few just seemed wrong to say unless one is being very general.

The g&w example was used to focus on something else. So it doesn't seem it was interpreted the way I intended it to be used. I brought it up to illustrate the occasional downside to sticking with competitive ideals. Ideally, you would prefer to always tech the dthrow, but in practice due to the possibility of habit forming and reads, always going for the competitive way isn't always best.

At the 2nd paragraph you have:
Grab into dairs and avoiding CG, yeah. Its not the optimal damage payout for most characters, but I would call it the 2nd best option against CG characters and the best option on non-CG characters (i.e ones you only get the 2 grabs from 0%). The Dair still puts falco in a good spot and leads into many thigns. A dacus option out of dthrow, ehh... Its only going to get you damage after dthrow from like 50% to 120%. And that's hoping you get the DI and the commitment from the opponent (putting themselves into lag). Otherwise, you completely wasted an opportunity for a follow-up.

3rd paragraph. No qualms from me except I feel like pointing out there can be ambiguity in what's always best. Different scenarios can lead me to consider bad options before as now the best option.

 

[Linkshot]

I'm going to completely agree with you there. Can't find anything to pick at. I guess this whole "no c-stick" stuff gets to me, while I'm agreeing with you, is because I'm huge on adaptation, and it bothers me when people refuse to adapt, whether it's a newbie thinking c-stick is cheap, or a competitive player immediately resetting on something like Yoshi's Pipes.

 

[Moon's Tear]

People tend to just whine about the c stick in my expereince because it auto smashes. But again like they are saying its only the scrubs who do that, since with marth for example you can sh a fair with a but the second one is only retreatable with the c stick. So to say that you are cheap for using it to do that characters job is frivolous.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Lol wow.


Why is this being discussed at all?



Ok.


The answer is no, it is not frowned upon. Close thread pls

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Lol, scrubs are adorable.

It's probably worth noting that Mr. K is probably pretty scrubby too. No offense intended, Mr. K, but I'm fairly confident you're smart enough to realize you're a "terrible player" (fyi, I'm terrible too, so it's cool ).

So to let's put things in perspective, Galgatha.
1. You got beat by a scrub.
2. You use a non-optimal style of controlling your character (you don't use the c-stick)
3. You're too stubborn to adjust your playstyle to something that has been explained to be superior in almost every way.
4. Point #3 suggests that you're stubbornness and unwillingness to adapt to something as simple as controller inputs, also suggests you will lack adaptability in your gameplay.

I'm not trying to sound like a ****, and I fully understand that you probably think I do sound like a ****. But listen to this one thing, please. If you wanna get good, you have to be willing to admit that the things you're doing are wrong when you lose. If you just john about this and that, and never attempt to adapt and change, you can't improve.

Hopefully the tourney you go to in March will be a wakeup call. Good luck to you anyway. Incidentally, what is the tourney you're going to? Is it listed on here?

 

[Mike2]

Wtf?? How would anyone know if you're using a c stick as opposed to control stick + A? Are they looking at your hands like a creeper? And more importantly, why would they care?

 

[Sucumbio]

lolololololololololol

mm 100$?

you will never be able to SDI, retreating aerial, and dacus,.


Stop shooting yourself in the foot

I've actually pulled off a retreating aerial w/o the c-stick, but only once and in WIFI lag.

Agree on the rest, though I mean SDI well yeah it's in the name, lol but I've tried it w/o and it definitely doesn't work w/o and DACUS well I've seen one video of a wii/chuck user doing it w/o but I think he was cheating somehow b/c I think you need c-stick to DACUS, at least I do...

@Galgatha if you revoke c-stick the game just ends up dumbed down a notch... and why would you do that? I understand when you say "it feels unnatural" but perhaps finding a way to incorporate smash keys into your controller setup in a way that feels natural may be worth exploring.

If you're referring to the way the Character feels when c-stick techniques are employed, well... then really it's more of a subjective opinion. "Natural" for some players could indeed be super-floaty no fast-falls, no this no that, but that's not what Smash is about when you refer to "competitive" Smash. So essentially you either need to figure out how to make it work for you, or get incredibly good at defeating the inherent weakness in your game as a result of not using Smash keys.

How is it a weakness? Well, think about all the possible character positions made available to a player w/c-stick vs. not. Positioning w/o it is definitely less variable than with, and so your game instantly inherits one major weakness, which is lack of spacing/positioning options.

True you can defeat some things. You can grab characters out of DACUS, for instance. But there isn't time enough (frames enough) for you to move only with your directional keys. Smash physics just work differently when the c-stick gets involved and as a result your opponent will always seem to hit faster and recover quicker. Is that cheap? Well that's what the OP asked. The answer is no. It's in the default setup for GC controller, so it's legit. Wii users don't get it automatically, so in fact I played for a long time using Marth w/o it and developed quite a lot of techniques. But I couldn't not use it forever, please. Eventually you have to find a way to use it, and use it, b/c it's just too much of a hindrance to not have it when your opponent does and is using it.

@OP I am thinking you may have meant "c-sticking?" If so, yes that's frowned upon as is any "spammy" play.

Oh and sorry I didn't read past page 4 as this was prolly all addressed already

Lol wow.


Why is this being discussed at all?



Ok.


The answer is no, it is not frowned upon. Close thread pls

This.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I've actually pulled off a retreating aerial w/o the c-stick, but only once and in WIFI lag.

you can perform a retreating aerial without C stick but you won't move back nearly as far because you at one point input forward and then backward.

its not at all optimal to do without the C stick

 

[BTmoney]

People tend to just whine about the c stick in my expereince because it auto smashes

Lol what is this thread??