Investigation - Your character's hardest Match Up?

[Zelderu Maryoto]

Hi. This is an investigation that I made because of curiousity. I got the idea from SuSa, who made an investigation on what was each character's most important match up to learn, whom I PM'd and asked if I could do this investigation. I was allowed to.

Basically, the rules for this investigation is exactly the same as SuSa's, except for the fact that you, in this investigation, are allowed to vote in as many Character Boards as you want to.

I'm posting this investigation in every Character Board on Smashboards. The purpose of this investigation is to figure out what character is one character's hardest. You may discuss it in this thread before you vote.

When you vote, you simply say one particular character you find the hardest for the character in question. But it is your first vote that matters. Whenever I see people have voted in this thread, I edit and write the name of the person that voted and then the character the person voted for.

If you have any question, ask it.

OK, let's get started!

SKidd - Meta Knight
Jimmyfosho - Meta Knight
JuxtaPoseX - Meta Knight
hippiedude92 - Meta Knight
A2ZOMG - Meta Knight
Calebyte - Meta Knight
Juushichi - Meta Knight
Gheb 01 - King Dedede
Matador - Meta Knight
ThatGuy - Meta Knight
BSP - Meta Knight

 

[SKidd]

Metaknight, Metaknight,


And maybe ganon

 

[Jimmyfosho]

same answer as the other poll, metaknight.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Seriously, its barely going to change anything.
My answer is MetaKnight, otherwise its Marth.
Also, only first vote matters? I hope you don't mean its one per person across all boards. Not that it would matter because it would still be MetaKnight for most of us.

 

[hippiedude92]

metaknight *****.

this is obv a secret pro ban movement which wont ever be successful loooool

 

[Inferno3044]

What if you think 2 characters are equally as difficult?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Metaknight is harder than anyone, fundamentally beating Mario in the poke war, destroying most of your zoning options with ease, and also being able to edgeguard you pretty consistently. And he completely outgays you on every stage you wish you could counterpick at.

Falco, DDD, G&W, and Marth are also pretty nasty depending on which stage you're looking at.

 

[Calebyte]

Meta Knight, obv. What's the point of these polls?

 

[Fire!]

Meta Knight, obv. What's the point of these polls?

Yeah, exactly what Calebyte said.

 

[Juushichi]

Falco isn't as bad as the people mentioned with him. GW, Marth, DDD, MK ofc. He's a little easier than those four.

I think Marth (nope--- nvm, it's GnW) is the hardest MU because I already have my answer for an MK (and now marth. Spoilers: it's MK).

 

[Inferno3044]

Dedede w/ infinite is without a doubt Mario's hardest MU.

Now assuming that we aren't counting that, I think Marth and MK are about as difficult. MK has better edgeguarding and can gimp Mario with ease plus has many things to limit our options, but Marth's moves are so fast and fair + dancing blade do a lot of work against Mario.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wtf G&W is easy lmao.

DDD is worst. You can't say "DDD is only the hardest without the infinite". Well duh. MK also is only the hardest because of [insert move here]. ICs are also dumb and they **** us =(

 

[Inferno3044]

Wtf G&W is easy lmao.

DDD is worst. You can't say "DDD is only the hardest without the infinite". Well duh. MK also is only the hardest because of [insert move here]. ICs are also dumb and they **** us =(

Play a good G&W please.

And yes I can say Dedede is hardest MU only with the infinite (you said without which I'm assuming is a typo). Dedede has a stupidly long grab range and one grab is literally death. If you know how to do it, it's not hard to drop. Most tournaments ban Dedede's standing infinite which is why it I'm differentiating them. Dedede isn't nearly as hard without the infinite. You just camp his *** and juggle when you get the opportunity. Getting grabbed isn't nearly as bad.

MK is a hard MU because of what he normally has. It really shuts us down.

I can tell that you don't know how to fight ICs if you say they **** Mario. It's 4:6 at worst. Probably not even that. Here's what you do:

• Platform camp with fireballs
• Separate ICs
• Kill Nana
• Destroy Popo
• Repeat 2 more times

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Play a good G&W please.

I hope Kaak qualifies for that =/

 

[Inferno3044]

Do you have a vid of you playing against him? If you know some good tricks on him, I'd like to know. G&W being easy is false though at least by my definition. Easy to me means that Mario has an advantage which is clearly false.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The ICs don't **** Mario unless it's on FD. Neither does DDD.

Just take forever to play those two matchups, and platform camp. They don't really have the tools to approach reliably. Mario is pretty neutral with the ICs on most stages not named FD, and FD is probably at worst a 4/6 disadvantage against the ICs. D3 on FD with the standing chaingrab allowed is only about as bad as fighting Metaknight in general. I would consider Falco overall a worse matchup than D3, on the premise he shuts down more of Mario's tools.

G&W ***** Mario due to Mario's shield sucking and due to G&W getting retardedly easy edgeguard KOs. Also his D-tilt is incredibly hard for Mario to work around, and Mario can't edgeguard him or land F-smash on him very easily.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

G&W ***** Mario due to Mario's shield sucking and due to G&W getting retardedly easy edgeguard KOs. Also his D-tilt is incredibly hard for Mario to work around, and Mario can't edgeguard him or land F-smash on him very easily.

G&W has no safe shield poke. You can pivot grab his Nair and Up-B OoS against his Bair [or powershield to grab the landing hitbox] or trade with your own Bair. G&W can't edgeguard Mario at all wtf. Like when will you ever be in a situation from where he can edgeguard you with anything?

G&W's hardest move to deal with is probably the greenhouse because none of Mario's OoS options work. I guess dtilt is kind of the same but stutter step fsmash beats it solidly [and is pretty safe on G&Ws shield]. Just bait his aerials - if he uses full hop / rising aerials WALK below them and utilt him. If he short hops pivot grab his nair or block to punish his bair.

If I say "easy" I'm clearly exaggerating. G&W wins the match-up because we can't punish his [otherwise weak] ground moves on block and dtilt / jab wall off our [otherwise pretty solid] ground game. His aerials are only a threat if you're in the air yourself though. G&W also beats spotdodges very well so rolling away and shielding are your best defensive options and you can shield plenty if you learn to deal with his aerials. I'd call it 55/45 to 6/4 G&W favor.

 

[hippiedude92]

inferno i think what he means is that he is easy, at least in comparison to let's say MK, but hes also hard at the same time, because many of his tools shut us down but not as bad as MKs.

 

[Inferno3044]

G&W has no safe shield poke. You can pivot grab his Nair and Up-B OoS against his Bair [or powershield to grab the landing hitbox] or trade with your own Bair. G&W can't edgeguard Mario at all wtf. Like when will you ever be in a situation from where he can edgeguard you with anything?

G&W's hardest move to deal with is probably the greenhouse because none of Mario's OoS options work. I guess dtilt is kind of the same but stutter step fsmash beats it solidly [and is pretty safe on G&Ws shield]. Just bait his aerials - if he uses full hop / rising aerials WALK below them and utilt him. If he short hops pivot grab his nair or block to punish his bair.

If I say "easy" I'm clearly exaggerating. G&W wins the match-up because we can't punish his [otherwise weak] ground moves on block and dtilt / jab wall off our [otherwise pretty solid] ground game. His aerials are only a threat if you're in the air yourself though. G&W also beats spotdodges very well so rolling away and shielding are your best defensive options and you can shield plenty if you learn to deal with his aerials. I'd call it 55/45 to 6/4 G&W favor.

I can agree with a good amount of this. I think it's 4:6. I don't think you can punish a retreating bair with upB OOS though. G&W can edgeguard Mario but it's not like he will gimp him every game.

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W has no safe shield poke. You can pivot grab his Nair and Up-B OoS against his Bair [or powershield to grab the landing hitbox] or trade with your own Bair. G&W can't edgeguard Mario at all wtf. Like when will you ever be in a situation from where he can edgeguard you with anything?

I'm quite certain fullhop F-air hits Mario provided you don't crouch, and there isn't a whole ton Mario can do to really punish it.

B-air spaced outranges Up-B. A better way to punish this is face backwards, angle shield up, and Up-smash out of shield. Up-B OOS is not reliable in this matchup.

G&W gets a free D-air on Mario's Up-B provided Mario recovers low, and this can either KO vertically, stagespike, or set up more edgeguards when Mario has expended his Cape and midair jump. Mario really doesn't have the tools to stop G&W from F-air/B-air edgeguarding him in any other situation.

Also G&W's tools for edgetrapping Mario are very very good.

G&W's hardest move to deal with is probably the greenhouse because none of Mario's OoS options work. I guess dtilt is kind of the same but stutter step fsmash beats it solidly [and is pretty safe on G&Ws shield]. Just bait his aerials - if he uses full hop / rising aerials WALK below them and utilt him. If he short hops pivot grab his nair or block to punish his bair.

F-smash doesn't beat D-tilt unless he spams it mindlessly. You can't really whiff punish it since it's more disjointed than your F-smash and doesn't really have enough ending lag.

You can't really just walk under G&W's fullhop F-air, and he'll be out of U-tilt range generally speaking.

I highly bet that kaak doesn't know this matchup at all.

 

[Coolwhip]

Minus well hop on the metalame train.
Although i don't find mk that hard to deal with imo.
Just play smart & safe against him, predict his moves & the match is yours.

<----Owns metaknight!

 

[Matador]

MK.

MK is so silly.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Minus well hop on the metalame train.
Although i don't find mk that hard to deal with imo.
Just play smart & safe against him, predict his moves & the match is yours.

<----Owns metaknight!

I predict hes going to nair my *** as I recover from off the stage, too bad there's nothing I can do about it.

 

[Coolwhip]

I predict hes going to nair my *** as I recover from off the stage, too bad there's nothing I can do about it.

If your fludd is fully charge, use it on mk to push him back while offstage.
He's light so it make things a little easygoing.

<---Still owns metalame!

 

[UberMario]

If your fludd is fully charge, use it on mk to push him back while offstage.
He's light so it make things a little easygoing.

But you'd push yourself away from the stage, and that is pretty much suicide . . . . . . . the only safe options when trying to recover from a point that is lower than the ledge is to either anticipate 'n cape, or hope you're already close enough for SJP to link with the ledge. If you're "safely" higher than the ledge, then the best option is to cape-stall, or b-reverse->FLUDD/B-Air.

 

[Inferno3044]

But you'd push yourself away from the stage, and that is pretty much suicide . . . . . . . the only safe options when trying to recover from a point that is lower than the ledge is to either anticipate 'n cape, or hope you're already close enough for SJP to link with the ledge. If you're "safely" higher than the ledge, then the best option is to cape-stall, or b-reverse->FLUDD/B-Air.

FLUDD works fine as long if you still have your midair jump. I've done it a few times and it's really my only good use of FLUDD

 

[Coolwhip]

But you'd push yourself away from the stage, and that is pretty much suicide . . . . . . . the only safe options when trying to recover from a point that is lower than the ledge is to either anticipate 'n cape, or hope you're already close enough for SJP to link with the ledge. If you're "safely" higher than the ledge, then the best option is to cape-stall, or b-reverse->FLUDD/B-Air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeWdx6K4Fjs&feature=player_embedded

Not if you hold the joystick forward.

 

[ThatGuy]

MK is probably the only character that can make me feel useless sometimes. Barring that, everything is winnable, but I find Ice Climbers are the second worst, followed by DDD.

Other characters are competitive matchups.

 

[Inferno3044]

MK is probably the only character that can make me feel useless sometimes. Barring that, everything is winnable, but I find Ice Climbers are the second worst, followed by DDD.

Other characters are competitive matchups.

Mario vs. Marth is more competitive than Mario vs. ICs?

 

[mars16]

The ICs don't **** Mario unless it's on FD. Neither does DDD.

Just take forever to play those two matchups, and platform camp. They don't really have the tools to approach reliably. Mario is pretty neutral with the ICs on most stages not named FD, and FD is probably at worst a 4/6 disadvantage against the ICs. D3 on FD with the standing chaingrab allowed is only about as bad as fighting Metaknight in general. I would consider Falco overall a worse matchup than D3, on the premise he shuts down more of Mario's tools.

G&W ***** Mario due to Mario's shield sucking and due to G&W getting retardedly easy edgeguard KOs. Also his D-tilt is incredibly hard for Mario to work around, and Mario can't edgeguard him or land F-smash on him very easily.

His Down smash can be devestating to.. sometimes

 

[ThatGuy]

Mario vs. Marth is more competitive than Mario vs. ICs?

Much more, but maybe I'm either weird or bad.

 

[Inferno3044]

Much more, but maybe I'm either weird or bad.

You might be bad if you think ICs are that hard lol. The Marth's you fight must be bad if you think he's easier than ICs.

 

[BSP]

I would still say MK for Mario.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

I would still say MK for Mario.

MK for everybody, including MK...

 

[BSP]

Maybe not for hardest. Overall, everyone should say MK. Hardest could be different though.

 

[ThatGuy]

You might be bad if you think ICs are that hard lol. The Marth's you fight must be bad if you think he's easier than ICs.

That's probably it. I can't think of any other explanation.

 

[Inferno3044]

Maybe not for hardest. Overall, everyone should say MK. Hardest could be different though.

Most important should basically be MK. Hardest will vary. Yoshi, Pikachu, Diddy, Olimar, and Wario probably won't say MK.