Inception mafia: Town and Indy Joint Win!

[ranmaru]

I protected Rockin.

 

[#HBC | J]

guess we'll continue to wait on Vocal then.

 

[-Vocal-]

I shouldn't have been so hasty to brag I still had fun this game, so it's all fine and well

Vocal, what's your character?

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to answer that question due to specific instructions I was given.

@Ronike: Am I allowed to answer this question now?

As for my night action, I watched Nabe. He didn't visit anyone, so unless mafia's killing isn't compulsive then I suppose I was wrong in my thinking it was him or Delvro I guess it could be helpful to list my entire history:

The first night I tracked Teryble Doom, who went nowhere.
The second night I tracked Rockin, who visited Ran. His claim is legit.
The third night I tracked Delvro, who went nowhere. Actually, I don't know how I forgot this; most likely I got the message while I was out and about, and then the next time I actually sat down for the game it had slipped out of my head. My bad on that one.
The fourth night I tracked Ranmaru, who visited Rockin. His claim is legit as well. It just happened to entirely be coincidence that he protected someone who was bulletproof as well.
And last night I tracked Nabe, who went nowhere.

Make of this what you will. I would have had you all if only I hadn't been so foolish I would assume there are no more bulletproofs in this game, so go off of that. To be honest, I'm quite puzzled as to who the last mafia is and would like to know myself. If I had to venture a guess, I would just have to say J. Rockin and Ran are both confirmed. Nabe visited no one last night (which clears him, but only if we assume killing is compulsive). J has confirmed Swords as town, which must be true as a townie would have no reason to falsely confirm someone while mafia might.

Honestly, if killing is compulsive the mafia must be J; if it isn't, then it's likely Nabe and J if he isn't.

 

[#HBC | J]

I really don't buy your night actions.

You tracked Nabe not once but twice.
You "forgot" about Delvro not going anywhere NOR Nabe not going anywhere.
You happened to have tracked everyone left in the game minus myself and swords.

Plus your tracks are a bit unbelieveable with your plays.

I'll comment more when I'm on my cpu buuuuut not buyin it.

Vote: -Vocal-

 

[#HBC | J]

Okay I'd like to explain why Vocal's tracking claims are full of BS.

YesterDay he was saying, it has to HAS to be one of Nabe/Delvro. However if he was truly telling the truth both of them should be cleared to him that day.

Also what compelled him to investigate Teryble in the first place on N1. He was X1's #1 target D1 before he was executed by me and also Vocal had been repeatedly saying how he disproved of Tandora and said that he would be personally wanting more info on her and wanting more to go off of her.

The fact that you even continue to say that Nabe is a possible mafia choice with the info you hold is absurd in it's own. In the end you just go "*shrug* I choooose Nabe and J but only under certain circumstances so in the end idk."

It just seems too good to be true.

 

[ranmaru]

@Ronike: Am I allowed to answer this question now?

N3 - Teryble Doom - nowhere.
N4 - Rockin - Ranmaru
N5 - Delvro, - nowhere.
N6 - Ranmaru - Rockin. BP

I would have had you all if only I hadn't been so foolish I would assume there are no more bulletproofs in this game, so go off of that.

Honestly, if killing is compulsive the mafia must be J; if it isn't, then it's likely Nabe and J if he isn't.

You have a posting restriction?

That's a summary of who you tracked.

Remember guys, I claimed Doc on D4. So, scum would know I would be protecting Rockin.

Vocal, can you state why you tracked these people?

Why did you track Delvro? Did he seem scummy to you or just ambiguous?

Everyone considered me scummier than Rockin, so why did you track him before me? Why was I last on the list?

Foolish, why do you say that? How were your actions foolish?

Let us not jump to conclusions. What if Scum simply No-killed to to confuse us? They knew who the doc was, and there was a watcher too. They had to be careful, so I don't think it's just a matter about being compulsive or not.

 

[-Vocal-]

I really don't buy your night actions.

You tracked Nabe not once but twice.
You "forgot" about Delvro not going anywhere NOR Nabe not going anywhere.
You happened to have tracked everyone left in the game minus myself and swords.

Plus your tracks are a bit unbelieveable with your plays.

I'll comment more when I'm on my cpu buuuuut not buyin it.

Vote: -Vocal-

Okay I'd like to explain why Vocal's tracking claims are full of BS.

YesterDay he was saying, it has to HAS to be one of Nabe/Delvro. However if he was truly telling the truth both of them should be cleared to him that day.

Also what compelled him to investigate Teryble in the first place on N1. He was X1's #1 target D1 before he was executed by me and also Vocal had been repeatedly saying how he disproved of Tandora and said that he would be personally wanting more info on her and wanting more to go off of her.

The fact that you even continue to say that Nabe is a possible mafia choice with the info you hold is absurd in it's own. In the end you just go "*shrug* I choooose Nabe and J but only under certain circumstances so in the end idk."

It just seems too good to be true.

Valid concerns, but I can't really say much to them aside from saying I played badly. I was pretty distracted during a lot of this game due to school and extracurriculars; I'd generally decide on something and just stick with that as opposed to closely examining things and re-reading. Really, my main plan was just "Keep Dark Horse alive and I've got this easy" but then DH went and did some terribly foolish things that I couldn't even hope to distract people away from

I investigated Teryble because everyone was making a huge fuss about him.

Also, also due to being distracted, I tended to forget who replaced in for who (still do, only one I have down pat is Delvro=Cello). We had like, what, three of them? Sloppy use of power on my part, but I wasn't as focused as I should have been.

Also, can anyone tell me what I would possibly have to gain from making up false tracks? Unless I just wanted to be the bad guy and help mafia win? Nah.

Also, Ronike told me I can claim; I'm Mal.

 

[ranmaru]

Oh, my bad. Disregard questions I asked if J asked it already. I didn't see a question mark. :/

 

[-Vocal-]

You have a posting restriction?

That's a summary of who you tracked.

Remember guys, I claimed Doc on D4. So, scum would know I would be protecting Rockin.

Vocal, can you state why you tracked these people?

Why did you track Delvro? Did he seem scummy to you or just ambiguous?

Everyone considered me scummier than Rockin, so why did you track him before me? Why was I last on the list?

Foolish, why do you say that? How were your actions foolish?

Let us not jump to conclusions. What if Scum simply No-killed to to confuse us? They knew who the doc was, and there was a watcher too. They had to be careful, so I don't think it's just a matter about being compulsive or not.

I'm not mafia and I'm already dead - why would I be giving credit to a false doc claim?

I tracked Delvro because of process of elimination. He was one of the vanilla townies left and I wasn't certain of his alignment. There might have been other reasons at the time but that's what I recall.

I tracked Rockin because I was a tracker and his claim of watcher made me doubt him.

I was foolish because I claimed independent before the day ended

Like I said, if scum no-killed then it's between Nabe and J. If it was blocked, then it was J.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Vocal is going to be lynched regardless, J, he's a claimed indy survivor, meaning that as far as we know, we can't win with him. I despise his action choices too, but this isn't a productive way to move forward. For now, knowing he's going to be lynched, assume he's indy and focus your scumhunting elsewhere.


Note: as an indy, Vocal wants us to find the last mafo. There's no motive for him to lie about info that he knows will find us mafia, because if they were lynched toDay, he would win. Therefore, he's not withholding anything and is telling the truth. He can only be lying if he's mafia, and that's an irrelevant scenario, because we need to lynch him next anyway to have any chance of winning when we do lynch mafia.


So we have this new information from Vocal. What does it tell us about the game?

If Vocal's telling the truth, then we know that any remaining mafia must lie between J and Swords. Vocal makes the very good observation that J has said Swords was town, and would have no reason to lie about that as any faction, unless Swords was J's partner.

Does that mean that J is mafia? Well, we're in a 13 player game, and we've seen two mafia flips, and we have a claimed indy. But we know for a fact that a mafia member remains alive, because Swords died on Night 4 after Tandora's modkill. If there are two mafia members and Vocal, then we've already lost, so disregard.

So if we assume that one mafia member remains, then we're looking at one mafia member + Vocal. Meaning we have the room to No Lynch toDay and do another round of night actions. Town should consider this while we move forward with toDay.


Swords, just out of curiosity, are you a reborn originally-town-flipping godfather-like role who flips cop results? No? Good, thanks for clearing that up.

J, who's scum?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Vocal, fullclaim to clear any doubts about your claim. Movie name and all, even though we already assume to know.

 

[ranmaru]

Oh, it seems Vocal ignored my posting restriction question. Hmmm. Why would he have a posting restriction about his Char?

It seems either he may be doing this purposely or the mod told him that he couldn't speak of it. Are posting restrictions sometimes like this?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Seems to be not here at the moment. Oh well. Safe to assume he means Mal from Inception.

But oh, the possibilities.

 

[-Vocal-]

Vocal is going to be lynched regardless, J, he's a claimed indy survivor, meaning that as far as we know, we can't win with him. I despise his action choices too, but this isn't a productive way to move forward. For now, knowing he's going to be lynched, assume he's indy and focus your scumhunting elsewhere.


Note: as an indy, Vocal wants us to find the last mafo. There's no motive for him to lie about info that he knows will find us mafia, because if they were lynched toDay, he would win. Therefore, he's not withholding anything and is telling the truth. He can only be lying if he's mafia, and that's an irrelevant scenario, because we need to lynch him next anyway to have any chance of winning when we do lynch mafia.


So we have this new information from Vocal. What does it tell us about the game?

If Vocal's telling the truth, then we know that any remaining mafia must lie between J and Swords. Vocal makes the very good observation that J has said Swords was town, and would have no reason to lie about that as any faction, unless Swords was J's partner.

Does that mean that J is mafia? Well, we're in a 13 player game, and we've seen two mafia flips, and we have a claimed indy. But we know for a fact that a mafia member remains alive, because Swords died on Night 4 after Tandora's modkill. If there are two mafia members and Vocal, then we've already lost, so disregard.

So if we assume that one mafia member remains, then we're looking at one mafia member + Vocal. Meaning we have the room to No Lynch toDay and do another round of night actions. Town should consider this while we move forward with toDay.


Swords, just out of curiosity, are you a reborn originally-town-flipping godfather-like role who flips cop results? No? Good, thanks for clearing that up.

J, who's scum?

I did not say there's a possibility of Swords being mafia, nor did I say he could be partners with J. Wouldn't add up in this setup. Also, do not try to make it seem as though you are not a possibility; if killing isn't compulsive, then the guilt lies with either you or J. If it is, then it is invariably J.

Vocal, fullclaim to clear any doubts about your claim. Movie name and all, even though we already assume to know.

I think I've claimed as much as I can...my pr message didn't tell me when i was allowed to speak about certain things, just being safe is all.

Oh, it seems Vocal ignored my posting restriction question. Hmmm. Why would he have a posting restriction about his Char?

It seems either he may be doing this purposely or the mod told him that he couldn't speak of it. Are posting restrictions sometimes like this?

I'm not at liberty to speak on flavor.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Let us not jump to conclusions. What if Scum simply No-killed to to confuse us? They knew who the doc was, and there was a watcher too. They had to be careful, so I don't think it's just a matter about being compulsive or not.

This x1,000. Mafia is almost never compulsive. Mafia no killing is a definite possibility and should not be overlooked.

Also J why are you even bothering to dispute Vocal's claim? He already flat out claimed anti-town, why disbelieve his actions further?

Someone tell me if it's possible or not that J could still be mafia. Same thing with Ran.

Lynch Vocal toDay and then Nabe toMarrow. Lose the game if Nabe is somehow not mafia and repeat Newbie 3 all over again. =/

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Actually Vocal would you mind modkilling yourself for us? You're going to be lynched anyways, you might as well help town win.

 

[-Vocal-]

Actually Vocal would you mind modkilling yourself for us? You're going to be lynched anyways, you might as well help town win.

Hmm. I could try.

Flavor is Inception.

And if that doesn't do it

@Ronike: Request modkill

 

[#HBC | J]

J, who's scum?

You or Ran. It has to be one of you or Ran.

Also J why are you even bothering to dispute Vocal's claim? He already flat out claimed anti-town, why disbelieve his actions further?

Someone tell me if it's possible or not that J could still be mafia. Same thing with Ran.

I am disputing them because I don't believe them fully. Trust me, it's really really easy for indies to lie just to make it seem like they have given us every single answer in the game. I've done so myself which is why I am mostly skeptical on his tracking results.

Ran still can.

Actually Vocal would you mind modkilling yourself for us? You're going to be lynched anyways, you might as well help town win.

Hmm. I could try.

Flavor is Inception.

And if that doesn't do it

@Ronike: Request modkill

No offense but this is me personally, requesting modkills on players and purposely killing yourself is breaking the game, rude, and straight up disrespectful to Ronike. I hated having to modkill someone in my own game when they broke a rule because of how much I liked the character I made for them and their role and now you are asking Ronike to kill his indie role.

Look I'm all for town winning but I'd rather not win a stupid and dirty way.

/rant

 

[-Vocal-]

You or Ran. It has to be one of you or Ran.



I am disputing them because I don't believe them fully. Trust me, it's really really easy for indies to lie just to make it seem like they have given us every single answer in the game. I've done so myself which is why I am mostly skeptical on his tracking results.

Ran still can.





No offense but this is me personally, requesting modkills on players and purposely killing yourself is breaking the game, rude, and straight up disrespectful to Ronike. I hated having to modkill someone in my own game when they broke a rule because of how much I liked the character I made for them and their role and now you are asking Ronike to kill his indie role.

Look I'm all for town winning but I'd rather not win a stupid and dirty way.

/rant

Fair enough.

@Ronike: Unrequest modkill

And I really am just curious, why would I lie?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

It 's against my morals to, but I play to win J, even if it means abusing a system in place.

I'm not going to try to force Vocal to modkill himself anymore, just dropping my two cents.

 

[#HBC | J]

Fair enough.

@Ronike: Unrequest modkill

And I really am just curious, why would I lie?

If you would like an example why indies would lie, check All-Stars (Gheb_01), check FF7:remix (Myself) and when they did pay off. FF7:remix is the better example because I was able to manipulate who HAD to be scum and who HAD to be town when in fact I lied and got everything I wanted but I lost because of my own stupidity.

It 's against my morals to, but I play to win J, even if it means abusing a system in place.

I'm not going to try to force Vocal to modkill himself anymore, just dropping my two cents.

I will never agree to the first part of your sentiment. I play to win as well but there is a right way to go about it and a wrong way. Abusing the system is just wrong.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Mafia didn't no-kill when it was last mafia standing, don't be ridiculous.

J, explain to me how Ran can be mafia.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

You should also explain how an indy survivor who knows he's unchangeably the next lynch has motive to lie.

 

[-Vocal-]

J, I'm dead. Tell me what I have to gain or stop trying to instill doubt in me.

Thinking back, from the flavor on J's execution I'm inclined to doubt he'd be mafia. I guess Nabe is a more logical choice, unless Ronike would allow the mafia to dictate the wording of their actions...would that even happen?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Mafia didn't no-kill when it was last mafia standing, don't be ridiculous.

J, explain to me how Ran can be mafia.

Maybe mafia wants us to go into MYLO rather then LYLO? At least in the former sceniro they have one extra person to hide in.

Plus, we have a tracker AND watcher right now, it would be very risky for mafia to have gone out last Night.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

If the town insists on lynching me first, then I'm going to push for a J lynch over Vocal's, because the very slight possibility that we can joint with him after ousting the last mafia is the only opportunity we'll have to win. To make it clear, we are in pseudo-Mylo at this point, assuming we're saving a lynch for Vocal.

What we should do, though, is No Lynch and get another night of results. Vocal can track either me or J, don't tell us which. Vocal doesn't get protected, because his death would simply ensure that we have two lynches to get both me and J out anyway. If he doesn't die, his results will tell us the story.

 

[-Vocal-]

If the town insists on lynching me first, then I'm going to push for a J lynch over Vocal's, because the very slight possibility that we can joint with him after ousting the last mafia is the only opportunity we'll have to win. To make it clear, we are in pseudo-Mylo at this point, assuming we're saving a lynch for Vocal.

What we should do, though, is No Lynch and get another night of results. Vocal can track either me or J, don't tell us which. Vocal doesn't get protected, because his death would simply ensure that we have two lynches to get both me and J out anyway. If he doesn't die, his results will tell us the story.

inb4 J calls this a bad idea

 

[#HBC | J]

Mafia didn't no-kill when it was last mafia standing, don't be ridiculous.

J, explain to me how Ran can be mafia.

Nabe, from my perspective, it is you or him as the final mafia member.

X1-12 flipped tricker of watchers, therefore having a Mafia Watcher is absurd. Plus Rockin has been proved a Watcher by seeing me visit Swords.
I have an Innocent on Sworddancer and he is not mafia. He is the most cleared person in my mind.
Vocal has openly claimed he is the indie, therefore not mafia.

That leaves you and him.

You have been tracked both nights when there happen to be No NKs. Also by process of elim and claimed PRs.

We have:

Rockin, claimed/proven Watcher
Swords, VT, resurrected, cop invesigated
Ranmaru, claimed Doc
Vocal, Claimed BP/LP Tracking Independant Survivor
Nabe, claimed VT
J, Proven Town One-Shot Executioner

Ran has claimed to be a doctor when we have prior knowledge that Ronike has given that as a safe-claim to scum before.

You should also explain how an indy survivor who knows he's unchangeably the next lynch has motive to lie.

J, I'm dead. Tell me what I have to gain or stop trying to instill doubt in me.

Thinking back, from the flavor on J's execution I'm inclined to doubt he'd be mafia. I guess Nabe is a more logical choice, unless Ronike would allow the mafia to dictate the wording of their actions...would that even happen?

You could be lieing about being a survivor that wins with town.
You could be doing it just to screw with us.
You could be doing it because you have info towards to mafia and know who they actually are but in reality what them to win.
You could still be BP/LP and want to waste a lynch in order for Mafia do do more damage.
You could be flat out lieing to lie.

There are a various amounts of reasons for an indie to lie. Also how are you dead? Nabe is talking about keeping you alive now soooo....?

I'm glad you brought up the second part. Here is a question to ask everyone, why would the mod confirm my character claim when I used my PR? It does not make sense that he would prove it if it were false. No, mafia would not be able to direct mod's actions because that would be dumb and broken.

If the town insists on lynching me first, then I'm going to push for a J lynch over Vocal's, because the very slight possibility that we can joint with him after ousting the last mafia is the only opportunity we'll have to win. To make it clear, we are in pseudo-Mylo at this point, assuming we're saving a lynch for Vocal.

What we should do, though, is No Lynch and get another night of results. Vocal can track either me or J, don't tell us which. Vocal doesn't get protected, because his death would simply ensure that we have two lynches to get both me and J out anyway. If he doesn't die, his results will tell us the story.

inb4 J calls this a bad idea

So instead of your lynch now which you said yesterDay that if Delvro does not flip mafia you NEED to be lynched followed by Ranmaru, you are going to push my lynch on no grounds? What happened to that bravado of helping town and that you need to be lynched because honestly if everything is as it is, you are the last mafia.

I would also like to bring up another point everyone has been forgetting. What about the Silencer? It has to be the last mafia PR so again we have to assume.

Is Rockin the Mafia Silencing Watcher?
Is Swords the resurrected Mafia Silencing Godfather?
Is J the Mafia Silencing Executioner?
Is Ran the Mafia Silencing Doctor?

Vocal is not the silencer otherwise he would have claimed as such. Therefore it is down to guess who?

Nabe.

If he is not it has to be Ran. There is NO OTHER CHOICE.

The more and more I think about it, Ran being mafia is only a last choice if Nabe is not mafia. That is the only way he can be mafia. I'm not, Swords isn't, Rockin isn't, so it is between Ran/Nabe.

Also there is a flaw in Nabe's plan, let's say Vocal does track Nabe for a third consecutive time and sees that he visits no where, he could have just simply chosen again to no NK and we are EXACTLY where we are toDay, toMorrow. Hence why the plan is a bad one. Either toDay we need to lynch who we all believe to be Mafia (Nabe) or we can lynch the indie and have another couple days at most to search between Nabe then Ran.

Rockin will not tell at all who he will be watching.
Ran WILL protect Rockin.

If we are not going to lynch Vocal then we are going to lynch Nabe.

Nabe, if you would like to either lynch me or NL you need to do two things.

One, you need to explain WHY I am mafia present a case.

or

Two, you need to explain why NL'ing is better then lynching you or Vocal.

tl;dr

J has been mod-confirmed as Leonidas, One-Shot Executioner
Swords is 100% NOT mafia
Rockin is confirmed watcher and confirmed not on the mafia team.
We still don't know who the Silencer is.
Vocal or Nabe is the play toDay.
If Nabe does not flip mafia, Ran is the last mafia member.

So the question is, Nabe or Vocal?

 

[Rockin]

argh

@mod: request list of lynch and Night kill victims on the first page plz.

More after I get this request (hopefully)

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Hey Rockin, do you think town can co-win with Vocal? Do you think it's worth the risk to lynch Nabe over Vocal?

 

[ranmaru]

Nah, I don't think so. Has town ever won with an indie before?

 

[#HBC | J]

Never have I seen a town win with indie. But that's just me.

Also what happened to Nabe's "Lynch me then Lynch Ran if Delvro doesn't flip mafia." yesterDay?

Now he's saying lynch someone he expressed and defended to Rockin as town yesterDay and to not lynch.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

J, I very plainly don't want to lynch you. I'd like us to No Lynch toDay, after which we'll get through another round of night actions, then lynch Vocal, then lynch you.

There is no room for a mislynch unless we can win with Vocal. I said that me being lynched was fine prior to Vocal's survivor claim. If the town did decide to lynch me, I would (as I just said) ask them to lynch you immediately afterwards, with the hope that Vocal can win with town, because otherwise we'll have lost.

However, the No Lynch plan is far better, and since you don't seem to have had any objections to that:

Vote: No Lynch

Under this plan, Vocal is being lynched toMorrow, not you. The lynch following that will be determined by Vocal's results toNight, unless Vocal is killed. If Vocal is killed toNight, then we'll have the room to lynch me, followed by you, or vice versa, and we'll have won. Good? Good.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

The fact that you even continue to say that Nabe is a possible mafia choice with the info you hold is absurd in it's own. In the end you just go "*shrug* I choooose Nabe and J but only under certain circumstances so in the end idk."

p.s. teeheehee.

 

[#HBC | J]

Nabe, according to Vocal's information.

Don't twist my words.

I also explained in my post WHY it is you.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Except... you didn't.
Respond to 2073.

 

[#HBC | J]

How in the world you didn't get how I explained you were the last mafia member in that post is beyond me.

Nabe, I am not NL'ing. Either you or Vocal is going toDay.

Also if I go after Vocal according to your logic mafia wins this game. What you need to explain is why is it myself instead of you which you haven't.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

It's not Rockin. It's not Swords. We both agree on that.

Vocal is our next lynch. (That you even suggest a lynch of me, followed by Vocal is megascummy because that means you're expecting me to flip town and the game to continue. But hey.) Which means Vocal can be disregarded in the equation -- if he's being lynched, it doesn't matter what his alignment is.

That leaves you, Ran, and I. Mafia lies between one of us three -- I think we can both agree with this statement. More specifically, from your standpoint mafia lies between Ran and I, and from my standpoint mafia lies between you and Ran.

This is where provability ends and we enter he-said, she-said. I believe that Ran is town because for him to be otherwise, he would have had to no-kill on the Night that Vocal tells us he targeted Rockin. No-killing is against the mafia wincon. And I know it's not me. It is very easy, from my perspective, to think you're scum.


We have one lynch to find scum within three people. That's why I am suggesting this Night Action frenzy. I'm open to other ideas about how to spread the actions out and cover all of us if you like, but I'm betting on Ran being town.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Ran, are you scum? Please answer this with a simple yes or no answer, with no extra material in your post.

 

[ranmaru]

Nope. No extra material in your.