Inception mafia: Town and Indy Joint Win!

[#HBC | J]

But you just said you'd go J as your scummiest scum pick that you've had suspicions on all game.

*facepalm*

 

[#HBC | J]

You also try and discredit Rockin...............

 

[ranmaru]

Nah. Meaning that Vocal was saying Rockin has been watching me the whole time.

 

[Rockin]

anyway...

Let me explain my reason of feeling you're scummy, J

First of all, it was your constant need of wanting both me and Ranmaru to use our power on each other throughout the rest of the night. while it secures us both, it deminishes our power to help town when it counts, and it lets Mafia tackle other players freely without any worry of being watched or their victim protected.

Second, last day was really anti-town. Not only did you lead a quick wagon on someone, but the day ended SO fast. Argh. Information is important to town, and there's nothing to dig up from a near instant lynch.

Third, and what really puts me off, is your target of this 'so called' power. You chose someone...who died as a townie, who was brought back the next day after. That was merely a waste. I know you questioned his role...for there ARE roles where a townie could be lynched and then come back as a mafia the next day but...ugh. There are two dead townies already, plus a third one on the loose. Don't you think that'd be a biiiiiit broken in the setup?


IMO, you have made several reckless/careless choices and yes, while you did manage to kill off a mafia member with your power, really puts me off in some of your later plays.



Right now, I'm in a tough spot cause I honestly have no idea whether you should be lynched or not. Infact, I have several others who should be lynched.

Ranmaru - This day here he's been really flaky and lack of information. It really irritates me. Only reason he's alive atm is cause of the doc role he 'claims' to have.

Delvro/Nabe - I just havn't seen much of play from him that really tells me he's town except that day he replaced in. Same thing with Nabe. Not to mention if I do feel J, Ranmaru, and Vocal are town, then it would indeed have to come to this.

Also, Silenced

I'm just really torn. If Ran is telling the truth and he flips doc, then I'm most likely dead tomorrow...but then Swords and Vocal would be confirm towns...


UUUUUGH. I'll have a verdict probably tomorrow. Talk amongst ya-selves and tell me what ya think (especially Sworddancer)

If it were down to Ran or Vocal, I'd probably go Ran.....maybe. If it comes down to that I seriously need a re-read.

Delvro, disregard my claim/execution for a bit. Have my actions been scummy this game. Are they scummier then others?

So are you now saying that the person that you have had the best town read on is the most scummiest in where your lynch line is as follows:

J>Nabe>Vocal>Ran

Also another question to you Delvro:

Since we believe the final scum-PR is a silencer of some sort; Could I be the silencer along with my executing? That seems highly unbalanced.

Swords, what does your lynch line look like?

Rockin/Ran, you know what to do.

I also wanna stress at this point that Ran is in no way clear of being town. Not in the least sense.

 

[ranmaru]

And I liked that Rockin deviated from the plan. I'm not trying to discredit his play.

Yeah, J is scummy. Nabe, I have no idea... He rarely posts. I'd be ok with his lynch or yours toDay, J.

 

[#HBC | J]

Rockin, I'll respond to you monday night or tuesday maybe.

 

[Rockin]

Sorry about the lurking; I had two exams this week (one Tuesday and one today) so I wasn't dedicating as much time to recreation as I usually do.

I don't like the way that Ranmaru has been posting lately, but I don't know what that could possibly mean. If he were to flip as scum, how is it possible that there have been two no-kills? Mafia would simply choose not to kill? I highly doubt that they (or, at this time, he) would do that, as it makes their (or, at this time, his) chances of winning so much lower...so what could all of Ran's scumminess possibly even mean?

Theory: is it possible that there is a Doc that cannot target himself, and thus did not want to expose himself as he could be killed the next night and no longer be of use to town?..nah, nevermind. Realized that person would have pushed hard for a Ran lynch, and I don't think anyone has.

I'm just really not sure what to make of Ran's scum behavior, because if he wasn't the doctor there'd be too many unanswered questions. On top of that, Rockin's watched him several times; wouldn't that have revealed him as scum if he had killed someone?

I still think that the play for the day should be either Nabe or Delvro. I've said it before and nothing has swayed my opinion enough - I simply think they are the most likely to hold the last mafia slot.

Docs can't really protect themselves.

Mafia CAN choose to not to kill that night. Yes, it makes them reaching their win condition slower, but it also confuses town and can sometimes (though rarely) have some sort of benefit.

Can you explain in detail why Nabe or Delvro?

Rockin has also deviated from plan.

Only twice. The last two nights.

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah I'm not trying to discredit you. I just don't know if Vocal read much of the thread... Does he even know who I protected?

 

[-Vocal-]

anyway...

Let me explain my reason of feeling you're scummy, J

First of all, it was your constant need of wanting both me and Ranmaru to use our power on each other throughout the rest of the night. while it secures us both, it deminishes our power to help town when it counts, and it lets Mafia tackle other players freely without any worry of being watched or their victim protected.

Second, last day was really anti-town. Not only did you lead a quick wagon on someone, but the day ended SO fast. Argh. Information is important to town, and there's nothing to dig up from a near instant lynch.

Third, and what really puts me off, is your target of this 'so called' power. You chose someone...who died as a townie, who was brought back the next day after. That was merely a waste. I know you questioned his role...for there ARE roles where a townie could be lynched and then come back as a mafia the next day but...ugh. There are two dead townies already, plus a third one on the loose. Don't you think that'd be a biiiiiit broken in the setup?


IMO, you have made several reckless/careless choices and yes, while you did manage to kill off a mafia member with your power, really puts me off in some of your later plays.



Right now, I'm in a tough spot cause I honestly have no idea whether you should be lynched or not. Infact, I have several others who should be lynched.

Ranmaru - This day here he's been really flaky and lack of information. It really irritates me. Only reason he's alive atm is cause of the doc role he 'claims' to have.

Delvro/Nabe - I just havn't seen much of play from him that really tells me he's town except that day he replaced in. Same thing with Nabe. Not to mention if I do feel J, Ranmaru, and Vocal are town, then it would indeed have to come to this.

Also, Silenced

I'm just really torn. If Ran is telling the truth and he flips doc, then I'm most likely dead tomorrow...but then Swords and Vocal would be confirm towns...


UUUUUGH. I'll have a verdict probably tomorrow. Talk amongst ya-selves and tell me what ya think (especially Sworddancer)

Reading this, you actually raise some really good points. But then I remember that J executed X1 Day 1 only hours from the deadline; even if mafia planned it I don't think it would have happened that late in the Day. I'm really not willing to lynch J over others.

Docs can't really protect themselves.

Mafia CAN choose to not to kill that night. Yes, it makes them reaching their win condition slower, but it also confuses town and can sometimes (though rarely) have some sort of benefit.

Can you explain in detail why Nabe or Delvro?



Only twice. The last two nights.

I can't explain in detail for either of them. I arrived at them by process of elimination, and on that front they're on equal standing.

Yeah I'm not trying to discredit you. I just don't know if Vocal read much of the thread... Does he even know who I protected?

I've read the thread, and I know who you've protected. I don't see how that would change what I said before

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

If J were scum, it could only be with you, Rockin, because he was town prior and would've had to be yakked, and a yak who doesn't die is one who is docced, and Randoc claims to have targeted you last Night, making you that potential Yak. Non-dying recruiting role is possible but overpowered in this size of game. Therefore, yak is the only possibility for Jscum, meaning if you're town, J is also town; i.e. you're being ridiculous.

Ran: It is extremely unlikely that scum decided to No-Kill on the Night Vocal got protected. That means that you'd be town for protecting him and Vocal would be town because there was no kill. I'm asking you to play the odds and believe that Vocal isn't scum who chose to No-Kill immediately following a scum lynch on the first Day of the game.

We have two Nights that had no kill: N3, and N6. Ran claims to have targeted Vocal and Rockin those nights, respectively. In reality, those protects sound very plausible -- Tandora might've targeted Vocal for a kill N3, and scum might've thought Randoc would deviate from the plan again last Night. The only player in the game who I might expect to send a No Kill 2/4 Nights as scum would be Ran, so I'm not looking at that argument.

Let's assume that Rockin did get targeted for a kill last Night, and therefore that Ran protected him and is town. Why would Rockin be targeted? Well, it was likely someone who thought Ran would deviate from the plan in that event. Remember that we assume Vocaltown if Rantown, he's out. Delv is a possibility. From a neutral perspective, I'm a possibility. J can't be scum unless Rockin is, as I said above, so he's not a possibility. Swords isn't a possibility assuming Jtown which comes from assuming Rockintown.

So from a neutral perspective, either me or Delv attacked Rockin last Night. From my own perspective, if Rockin was attacked last Night, it was Delv. That means that to me, Delv is scum if Rockin is town. Delv is also scum if Ran is town. If scumRan no-killed, that would go against his win condition when he's already the super underdog, unless he has a partner. So for Delv to be town, Ran has to be scum, and very likely scum with a partner.

Assume Delvtown and scumRan with a partner. That partner cannot be J or Swords, and I know it's not me. Not Delv if Delvtown is assumed. That leaves Vocal and Rockin. Coincidentally, the two people who were protected on Nights with no death. So there is a degree of plausibility to this. Check cases.

Assume Vocalscum. Vocalscum no-killed on Night 3, right after a scum lynch. Possible, but stupid play.

Assume Rockinscum. Rockinscum no-killed last Night and correctly identified that J visited Swords. Less possible. For one thing, why would a watcher have been scum with a watcher tricker? Rockin is not mafia.

Delvscum is far more plausible than Ranscum with a partner.

Vote: Delvro

If Ran is scum without a partner, then we have time to lynch him. 7 players toDay, lynch and a kill takes us to 5. Town can lynch me toMorrow, kill takes us to 3 and Ran can still be lynched.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Edit: Rockin is not mafia, as long as J is not mafia. Reason being, the only way Rockin isn't a watcher is if he's scum with J and planned that talk at the beginning of the Day. That's far-fetched and we probably deserve to lose if that's the case, so disregard.

 

[Rockin]

Argh, I meant to say 2 mafia's has died, and a 3rd one is on the loose. It was late and I was in somewhat of a hurry to type x.x;

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Jeez everyone is getting so ahead of me in my mafia games. Give me a minute to catch up.

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah I know what you mean. I have a little head ache from Mafia. It's so fun though.

I might be back later. LAPTOP. :3

But yeah. Hmmm, I like Nabe's post. And yeah, I do agree you will have time to lynch me later if you still doubt me.

I'll be VLA from the 19th - 22nd but I'll be back today don't worry.

Unvote: Nabe
Vote: Delvro

I'll leave my vote there for now just in case.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

unvote

Hope that wasn't the hammer.

Anyways, I think that Delvo is probably the most likely to be scum. I don't like how he was suggesting J scum yesturDay by setting up WIFOM. Also, I REALLY don't like how he started toDay off and yesturDay by not wanting to lynch Nabe. He is acting like he does not want to lynch Nabe so badly because he knows that Nabe is town. Thus, Delvo is scum.

Nabe is pretty scummy because he has been spending all of his time going over what we already know. No real content to it. He did this in Youtube mafia to (where he WAS scum) but that actually makes me feel slightly better about him because now I'm starting to get the feeling that this is just his general play. He should go if Delvo is town.

I'm open to the possibility that J and his scummates decided to do something really WIFOMish but eh. I also believe his story about what happened during the Night because it makes sense that just an anti-town role like KY's would get something like that. Plus what else could he have done to me?

Rockin I remeber acting scummy earlier Days 3 and 4 but him being the watcher with a watcher tricker in this game makes him pretty much legit town.

Ran I think is town. I don't like the thought that the mod basically made two bullet proof townies if they were to claim but eh. His speech right now is just awkard, not scummy.

Vocal is scummy but the doc protect makes me feel a lot better about him considering I do not think scum would of not killed N3.

So yeah:

Delvo>Nabe>J/Ran

 

[-Vocal-]

I'm down for Delvro. Just let me know when to cast my vote, not sure if there are still more things people want to get out of this day

 

[Delvro]

I don't like how everyone is writing off Vocal simply because Ranmaru protected him. It is possible for Vocal to be scum without going no-kill night 3... and that is if Ranmaru's protection was redirected to the night kill target. In other words, Vocal both redirected toward someone as well as attempted to kill them N3.

Ranmaru is town. Don't kill Ranmaru. DON'T KILL RANMARU!

Also I don't like this J is scum crap. It's too ridiculous. Nabe's Yak thing is even more ridiculous, but I think he realizes that as much as I do.

If I get lynched tonight, please please consider Vocal and Nabe after me.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Delvro, are you scum?
Question of the hour right now. Complacency makes me nervous.

More cases:

Assume Jscum. Ran and Vocal not scum because they can only be partnered with each other. J/Swords assumes that scum no-killed and that J targeted his buddy for some reason. No. J/Rockin again assumes that scum no-killed, because Rantown means Rockin was the only protected player last Night. I know I'm not scum with J. Therefore, J is only scum with a partner if that partner is Delvro, unless scum no-killed. Can J be solo mafia? Event logic says yes, but interactions with flipped scum say no.

@J: Do me a favor. Type Execute: Delvro. That's the command, right? He would have enough votes by now, correct? But this action shouldn't work if you had a one-shot. I know you already did this once in D4 to prove it was one-shot, but please indulge me.

With J, it's also important to note that the lynch flavor on X1 implies that J is Leonidas and therefore town. Arthur from Inception could "cause a paradox" and make him fall or something, but that's unlikely.


Assume Swordscum. Swords/Rockin assumes no-kill. J/Swords was covered above. I'm not paired with Swords. Swords can only be scum with Delvro. Swords is not solo scum, because he would need a scum partner to revive him, because the DH explanation would've been a lie. Swords could've been a yak who flips town and then self-revives a couple days later, which is absurd, and which would also very likely be an ability of Saito if you had to choose an Inception character, or Cobb, both of whom are impossible. Swords is not mafia.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Delv, the yak thing is a reason why J is likely not mafia.

I don't like how everyone is writing off Vocal simply because Ranmaru protected him. It is possible for Vocal to be scum without going no-kill night 3... and that is if Ranmaru's protection was redirected to the night kill target. In other words, Vocal both redirected toward someone as well as attempted to kill them N3.

Why would a redirector redirect a player to their faction's night kill?

 

[Delvro]

Don't ask me why they do it, the simply do it from time to time... it happened in NBC and in other games with bus drivers... switching the kill... I don't see how it's that unlikely that redirectors might do it as well.

 

[Delvro]

Delvro, are you scum?

....I don't get the point of this, but no, of course not!

I'm also not sure why you're considering all these two scum possibilities... 4 scum in a game like this is waaaaay slanted in antitown's favor. Like seriously.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

That's not the same role. A redirector chooses a player, then selects that player's new target. A bus driver switches. Semantics aside, they're both pointless, but redirecting would be especially pointless, and dumb.

Anyway, by asking you why, I really meant "no, that's dumb".

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Assume Swordscum. Swords/Rockin assumes no-kill. J/Swords was covered above. I'm not paired with Swords. Swords can only be scum with Delvro. Swords is not solo scum, because he would need a scum partner to revive him, because the DH explanation would've been a lie. Swords could've been a yak who flips town and then self-revives a couple days later, which is absurd, and which would also very likely be an ability of Saito if you had to choose an Inception character, or Cobb, both of whom are impossible. Swords is not mafia.

Why do you take so long to say something which could be summed up in one sentence?

 

[Delvro]

I thought a redirector targets someone, and anything that hits the redirector hits the redirector's target instead?

Did I get the role wrong?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Actually, no.

Nabe > Delvo.

Delvo might seem to "know" too much but he came into this game attacking Tanny. Seems really risky from a scum PoV when they were already down a player. Nabe's playerslot on the otherhand I cannot recall hunting scum. I think Tery was on X1's case but that was only because he was attcking X1. Although I do think Tanny managed a town read on Tery which I doubt she'll do for a scummate/

Ah . . . my brain hurts from all of this wine.

Yeah okay, either one of Nabe/Delvo at this point. Leaning Nabe slightly. If neither of them flip scum then just go on and lynch Ran. I'll take him over J at this point.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Swords, I'd really like to see you sum that up in one sentence. And why do you say that Delv seems to know too much?

Delv, I've never heard of a role like that. Let's call it a deflector. So in your scenario, the deflector's (Vocal's) target was also the scumteam's nightkill target, and deflected Ran's protect onto their target?

 

[Delvro]

@Nabe, yeah, that was my theory.

I also have no idea why I know too much. I want to know what you think I know!

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'd really like J to respond to my post before we lynch toDay.
p.s. deadline looms.

 

[Ronike]

Really really overdue Vote Count (4/7 to lynch):
Sworddancer [0]:
Ranmaru [2]: J, Ranmaru,
Delvro [1]: Nabe,
Nabe [0]:
J [1]: Rockin,
-Vocal- [0]:
Rockin [0]:

Not Voting: -Vocal-, Delvro, Sworddancer,

Sorry bout that...

 

[Delvro]

Uh oh, J and Ranmaru and Nabe and Rockin are confirmed voteless!!!

 

[#HBC | J]

Back from V/LA will be posting presumeably shortly.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

vote Nabe

I can spend all the time in the world second guessing myself but it won't get me anywhere.

 

[#HBC | J]

I honestly thought Rockin would have some....well better reasons to call me scum since he was so confident but anyways let's finally get to this.

Huh Kuz is dead but we get Swords back....I have never heard of a role that ressurects someone before.

Swords tell us how ur alive if you know.

Rockin/Ran, report.

Vote: Kirbyoshi

So you are saying this post is extremely anti-town and was the cause of the day ending so early? You really need to go re-read that. Otherwise this point is just not well thought out.

Yeah, J is scummy. Nabe, I have no idea... He rarely posts. I'd be ok with his lynch or yours toDay, J.

Explain the bolded part with some actual support besides piggybacking Rockin all day and explain why I am which you still haven't done fully besides I think just point out some things but not fully.

Vote: Delvro

Unvote: Nabe
Vote: Delvro

unvote

Alright Delvro's at L-2 so I'm gonna put him at L-1 to double make sure it reaches my abilities past requirements. The vote count is really wrong.

Unvote
Vote: Delvro

Execute: Delvro

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@ Nabe: I say Delvo "knows too much" because of his reluctance to lynch you. From his town pov you should be pretty much the only person he would want to lynch. Him not wanting to lynch you is because he knows that you WILL be lynched toDay and that you will flip town. Thus, he is trying to set it up where he's the one that he's the only one who did not want to lynch you.

Still, I realize that this doesn't necessarily have to be the case and plus I'll rather have someone who doesn't spoon feed everyone every single bit of information that they probably already know live longer then the person who does. =/

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Btw guys if one of Delvo/Nabe is mafia but this game keeps going then J is probably the indie and I would lynch him over Ran in that case scenario.

 

[#HBC | J]

What makes you suggest there is even an indie in this game Swords?

 

[#HBC | J]

@Mod: Request Updated VoteCount

 

[Delvro]

Well, I do want to see Nabe's flip, but I want to see Vocal lynched more.

I will vote for Nabe, however I get an uneasy feeling about it.

I realize that nobody wants Vocal lynched but me and that if I get lynched today he will probably make it to lylo =| bleh.

 

[Delvro]

Anyway, Ranmaru is technically not out of the question. If I get lynched today, here's what I want to happen.

Ranmaru protect Rockin tonight, and nobody else. If rockin dies tonight, Ranmaru is scum. Plain and simple.

Rockin is smart, I trust that he will make a good choice tonight.

If Rockin makes it to lylo, hopefullly he will pick up something good. If ranmaru makes it to lylo WITH Rockin, then they are both town. Lynch whoever is not Ranmaru or Rockin.

Until then, kill Nabe and Vocal.

Got it? Good. Now either kill me or Nabe, since nobody wants to lynch Vocal.

Vote: Nabe

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

J I'll get right back to you but I'm going somewhere right now.

Delvo justify for me lynching Vocal when he has has a doc protect on him.