Inception mafia: Town and Indy Joint Win!

[Kirbyoshi]

@X1: It's too late for me to make any town tells. I screwed up, and I'm actually ok with being the lynch toDay.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

vocal, you'll have to say more than "His voting is chock full of bad reasoning'

Kuz, where are you getting this meta from?

 

[Kirbyoshi]

@Cello: In your next post, give your top 4 scumpicks.

 

[-Vocal-]

vocal, you'll have to say more than "His voting is chock full of bad reasoning'

Kuz, where are you getting this meta from?

I wasn't making a case on you though, as I don't believe you to be scum. I was just listing the reason why I believe you shouldn't be the play ToDay.

Also, @KY: wat

If you're townie then fight for yourself. I do not believe you're scum and I'm pretty sure there are others that think the same. Giving up is not acceptable as a townie. Don't be disheartened; Cello is pretty much the only one riding your *** right now. Do as I suggested earlier and start contributing things to the conversation other than defending yourself.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

Wow. I was reading back on Page 1 and I have no idea why I didn't notice this before.

Check out posts 24-26.
24 is me RVS-pushing for Sworddancer..
25 is Cello RVS-wagoning Sworddancer..
26 is kuz fairly obviously trying to derail said wagon through RVS means.

I don't think this says anything about alignments without one of their flips, but it's certainly a connection to look at if/when one of them flips scum later on.

But anyway, people who I'd be ok with lynching:
X1
Tanny
Sir Bed
Terybad Doom

People who I don't want lynched toDay:
Ran
Cello
Darkie
J
Vokester
Rockin

People who I need more info on to get a good read, or that I have an absolute null read on so far:
Sworddancer.
kuz

 

[Teryble Doom~]

I meant that you shouldn't have left your vote on an inactive because it does nothing. (My bad, I misworded my statement before)

What is so hard to understand, Ranmaru? We voted Sir Bedevere to apply pressure, force him to talk. Sir Bedevere shows up and begins contributing. So we unvoted. You're telling us that we should not have left our vote on an inactive when we clearly removed the vote.

Or perhaps you think doing something like "Vote: Sir Bedevere, Unvote Vote: Sir Bedevere" accomplishes anything at all.

Unless you're having serious wording issues or are not being specific enough in your posts, I'm going to continue picking this apart.

Why are you going to make a case on them? Shouldn't you already have an idea?

Is voting someone for inactivity building a case on them? Voting for p-r-e-s-s-u-r-e is equivalent to building a case? Did you really just say that?
How does one differentiate this "idea" of knowing whether one is Mafia or not if they have not posted in the discussions? Pressuring them gets them to talk, which is exactly what we need to determine whether or not we are "going to make a case on them." Oh riiiiight. Pressuring = making case.

Sir Bedevere's posts have been very helpful in my opinion (at least for me), so for now I'm reading neutral.

It makes it sound like "Oh well everyone thinks they are scum so we will build a case on them"

Where are the posts in which other members say, "Sir Bedevere and inactives are clearly Mafia." Find them for me. In fact, some members were even declaring the opposite, saying that some pressure was needed but it did not validate Mafia members.
If people were already building arguments against inactives, would you really think we would try to apply extra matters? I may be a new player, but I'm not as stupid as you are making me seem.

I want to see reasons as to why you think they are scummy. Not just "They played scummy".

How does one declare an inactive Mafia-esque? How does one declare anyone Mafia-esque? They interpret their posts and contributions. What do you think we're trying to do? Get not-so-present members to make discussions and contributions.

Oh **** we're making a case on them, woe is me.

Did it work, apparently so. My opinions on Sir Bed. have already been posted, so I will not restate them.

Also, I want to see a vote from you.

I have yet to catchup (just preying on this post), but I'm suspicious of you, Ranmaru. You're making Terybad argumetns and reading very poorly.

And if this is some huge misunderstanding / misinterpretation on my part, word your posts better, be more specific, and read more clearly. Then this might not happen again.

 

[Teryble Doom~]

But anyway, people who I'd be ok with lynching:
X1
Tanny
Sir Bed
Terybad Doom

Is this list based off of your opinions on who Mafia members are so, does the act of me pressuring Sir Bedevere in the past seem accurate if indeed both of us are Mafia? Would a Mafia avoid pointing out an inactive Mafia friend? What about our early arguments against X1-12?

Or do you believe it's [insert Mafia term I do not know here]? (Buddying, maybe?)

This is just the rookie aspect showing, obviously. I'm here to learn, so.

 

[Teryble Doom~]

And just as a nitpick, you could type our name correctly, next time. Just maybe.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

I believe the term you're looking for is "bussing." But anyway, that list does not mean everyone on it HAS to be scum. It's just my top suspicions so far. Heck, it's not even in order of scumminess, it's in the order the players are listed in the OP. I only think there are 3 Mafia, with maybe some sort of Indy, so imo not everyone on that list is Mafia anyway.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

Ninja EBWOP: I did that on purpose.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I believe the term you're looking for is "bussing." But anyway, that list does not mean everyone on it HAS to be scum. It's just my top suspicions so far. Heck, it's not even in order of scumminess, it's in the order the players are listed in the OP. I only think there are 3 Mafia, with maybe some sort of Indy, so imo not everyone on that list is Mafia anyway.

Alright, thanks for the input!

Ninja EBWOP: I did that on purpose.

Humorous.

 

[-Vocal-]

What are everyone else's scum lists? We have 3 days and need to start coming to a consensus.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Fine with kirb or kuz lynch. Kuz for reasons stated, and kirb his 481 reeks of scum that's given up

First, @mod request votecount

 

[Kirbyoshi]

@Horseradish: What's the difference in attitude and tone between resigned town and resigned scum?

 

[X1-12]

I believe the term you're looking for is "bussing." But anyway, that list does not mean everyone on it HAS to be scum. It's just my top suspicions so far. Heck, it's not even in order of scumminess, it's in the order the players are listed in the OP. I only think there are 3 Mafia, with maybe some sort of Indy, so imo not everyone on that list is Mafia anyway.

Explain your thought process which led you to believe there is an indy

@Cello: Come back in here and realise Teryble Doom is much more scummy than Kirbyo

@DH: How often exactly have you seen scum that have given up? And how often have you seen town given up?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@X1 scum once, never as town (not including BSL, who claims that he's okay no matter the alignment)

make that of what you will

@kirb see above, town doesn't give up

 

[X1-12]

@X1 scum once, never as town (not including BSL, who claims that he's okay no matter the alignment)

make that of what you will

@kirb see above, town doesn't give up

What makes you think your one experience of scum giving up is a template for how all scum give up?

Also you are completely wrong in saying town does not give up. 1 example is Vocal in Majoras Mask

 

[#HBC | J]

Or myself in DnD *shiver* Hey everyone been quite a bit busy this week and next week im gonna be even busier. I'll try my best to do a post tonight if I have the time.

 

[Teryble Doom~]

@Cello: Come back in here and realise Teryble Doom is much more scummy than Kirbyoshi.

Explain prease?

 

[Teryble Doom~]

And you better not give me any of Ranmaru's crap, X1-12. I just want to know what you're thinking.

 

[-Vocal-]

What makes you think your one experience of scum giving up is a template for how all scum give up?

Also you are completely wrong in saying town does not give up. 1 example is Vocal in Majoras Mask

He speaks the truth

So far I'm hearing support for a few people. Out of them I wouldn't have a problem lynching Teryble; I don't have anything against them nor do I find them particularly scummy, but I have pretty even reads on everyone, except for perhaps Tanny whom I would like to stick around for at least one more day and actually become involved.

Also, if there's any type of investigative role in the setup, would you target Tan pretty please?

 

[th3kuzinator]

As from what I have seen, both factions can give up under certain circumstances. If anything, town usually gives up more than scum. DH's reasoning for the Kirby lynch are dumb.

Kirb, do you think the information your flip gives town will outweight your presence later game? If yes, would you okay being the lynch toDay assuming we adopt your reads? If not, who is the most realistic lynch that town should look at (from your 485 scum list) before the deadline. All this assuming you're town, ofc.

I am re-reading now.

 

[ranmaru]

Don't worry Tery I'll reply to you. Although I have a big post to make about other things and I'm at school right now. : ] I'll post later. (Late nite school, college)

 

[#HBC | J]

@J: At the risk of sounding like I'm defending X1, I have to ask: Isn't it possible that what X1 is doing is more just anti-town than actually flat-out scummy? I'll be the first to tell you that X1 is super aggressive as town, and that how X1 is acting right now is textbook townie X1. If you turely believe X1 to be scum, then convince me X1's actions have actual scum intent behind them and are not just bad town play.

Swordy I've played with quite a few games with X1 as well so I know his town and mafia meta a bit. Probably not as much as you but I have some meta on him. However here is a bigger concern of mine. You're entire "defense" (being loose with the word here) on him is based on Meta? So in reality you just think X1 is playing as a terribad townie like normal? There is nothing that irks you about his play? Hmm....

I think the way J is playing is scummy, just so you all know. We're going to make a case against J, Kuz, or X1 when we get back on.

Also at ran: No. You're getting J, Kuz, and X1 for now. If you don't like the fact that X1 is in there, then sorry. I don't really think anyone else is playing scummy at this point.

I'm going to re-read Kirbyo, talk about this with Tery, and then we'll post our thoughts. (I never got to talk to Tery about J because I just started thinking it very recently.)

What ever happened to this? Teryble you have been the only one to express concern on myself (lighter note Vocal but due to my inactivity which is definetely called for.) I know I am talking to the Joey side here so I would like an opinion from the Joey side then individual thoughts from the Tery side as well. Actually do this with both Kuzi/X1. I seem to be liking the Tery side of the hydra but the Joey side is not looking good at all. I mean it has been quite some time since you said you were presenting a case on J(myself), Kuzi, and X1. If you find those people the scummiest why is your vote not on them? Are you afraid to place your vote anywhere? What about my play is scummy? Look at the part in bold. Why is this needed? "Just so you all know." It's like you have hit a revelation or just trying to make due note that you find me scummy but you have not given any reason besides the fact. "J is scummeh guuuuuys~." I'd like to see what you have to say finally. ^^ I'm a patient person but if you said you were going to do this then I expect it sooner rather than later. Also why did you italicize "our"? It seems like you are making it a point to say that it is not just YOURS (Joey's) individual thoughts and you have two people agreeing to what you are saying. Also what was your train of thought that brought you to think I'm scum, th3kuzi is scum, and X1 is scum. Do not piggyback with th3kuzi/X1 on your reasonings. Provide solid info that would be new instead of recycled. Then also explain why you decide to call the three people that are in an arguing triangle about each other as your top three scum picks? It seems that you are trying to pick on the easiest targets without making yourself sound like you are not bandwagoning with the Kirbyoshi lynch. X1 found th3kuzi scummy (well used too then he flip-flopped) and J thinks th3kuzi is town and X1 is scummy. th3kuzi thinks X1 is scummy and each have expressed their thoughts on each other. Why these three? What specifically? This individual post is filled with so much scum it's weird. Joey what play have you seen from all three of your picks from previous games that shows they are scummy? (i.e. do you have meta on any of these three that helps in your decision?)

Hey J, if we were to lynch X1, Tandora, Kirbyoshi, Teryble Doom, and...I guess Dark Horse and someone else, A) do you think we'd win, and B) would you be willing to support me against them?

X1 - I will lynch anytime this game. Seriously.
Tandora - Meh, I am never comfortable lynching her or killing her just because it's a thing. I do not see anything directly scummy besides the fact that it seems she is fluff posting a bit.
DH - DH is definetely playing scummy but everytime I think he is playing scummy he pops town and it is just grah infuriating.
Teryble - I am not liking at the moment. Not in the least bit. ^^ Their play is quite scummy (mostly Joey's).

Personally here is my lynch line in the people you have given me.

X1>>Teryble Doom~>>>>Dark Horse>>>>Tanny/Kirbyoshi

So, as far as scum picks goes, I suppose my list for now would be Tandora, possibly Cello, possibly J, and possibly Sir Bed. I know that's one more than you asked for, but that's my list for now.

Why the use of the word Possibly alot? I mean. "possibly Vocal, possibly Sworddancer, possibly Teryble Doom." But what does it mean. Can you elaborate more then you have already done on Cello/Sir B/Myself. The word possibly just seems like "meh I'll throw that name, that name, and this name in there. So to be clear your scum-pick you are clear on is Tanny? Why not vote her besides the reason you wanna hear more from her even though you think she's scum....? I'm confused.


*siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh* No one is hopping on X1 at all? Really? How annoying -_-". Ah well guess I'll go with my second scum pick.

Unvote
Vote: Teryble Doom~

More the Joey half that I'm having a problem with. I'm fine with seeing them go but if people go to X1 I will not have a problem AT ALL. Plus this lynch makes alot more sense then a Kirbyoshi lynch.

 

[#HBC | J]

Also another note whoever said we are ending the day with a Kirbyoshi lynch is insane. We have three days and that is plenty of time to change town's thoughts. One day i'll give you it would be tough to change but seriously.

@Kirbyoshi wagon: What is keeping you on KY and not on Teryble Doom~? Would you lynch them over KY? Why would you not? Is their play in your eyes scummy or townie? Would you vote them instead of a NL? Would you prefer a NL to their lynch? Can you explain to me how KY is scummy compared to TD? As in do a compare and contrast. And no this does not mean if one person does this the rest of you are not unobligated of doing this. Tell me what it will take to get you onto TD. I'll try and make your dreams come true We can shoot the breeze and discuss how scummy TD is and how town KY is in comparison.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Hey! Not fair J. I wanted you to explain why what X1 is doing now is not typical town X1. I want you to explain why his play isn't just bad town play. I have a town read on X1 as of now but I'm open to other interpertations.

Basically, tell me how you have come to the conclusion that this is more likely scum X1 over town X1.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

@DH: My reaction reading your 496 was similar to X1's. You've seen scum give up...once. What leads you to believe town never does?

@kuz's 502: Mostly, the reason why I'm kind of ok with being lynched is because if I am left alive, I may be a distraction to the rest of the town, especially Cello, and Cello might be distracting as well, since he has already said he's not going to stop tunneling me toMorrow. Most realistic lynch from my list is recently looking to be TD.

 

[#HBC | J]

KY vote TD ooooor it's most likely gonna be you.

Or vote your next biggest scum pick ^_^.

 

[#HBC | J]

SD i will try to get to u tomorrow, now im on itouch.

 

[th3kuzinator]

If no one is okay with a DH or X1 lynch, I would rather go for Tery than for Kirby tbh.

I only hope Cello re-evaluates his read for D2.

 

[#HBC | J]

^whyyyyyyyy

at the first part?

 

[th3kuzinator]

The way Kirby has responded to his wagon was weird at first, but his recent play gives me a town read. Especially since he had town's best interests at heart when saying that he would be okay being lynched to avoid town confusion tomorrow because of Cello.

As I stated before, my top pick is DH, followed by x1. However, both wagons dont seem realistic toDay, and I would not personally advocate a Kirby lynch. Next on the list is Tery.

 

[#HBC | J]

Kay now state why you would move to Tery besides bandwagoning.

 

[Teryble Doom~]

As I stated before, my top pick is DH, followed by x1. However, both wagons dont seem realistic toDay, and I would not personally advocate a Kirby lynch. Next on the list is Tery.

That's not really explaining why, though. Could you go into specifics?

 

[Teryble Doom~]

NinJa'd. c wut i did thar

 

[#HBC | J]

Tery side: Can you explain Joey sides scummy posts? Do you agree with stuff he has said? Where are those cases? Who are you personally (as tery) comfortable with lynching? Why do you seem town but not Joey?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Tery side: Can you explain Joey sides scummy posts? Do you agree with stuff he has said? Where are those cases? Who are you personally (as tery) comfortable with lynching? Why do you seem town but not Joey?

I'm off to sleep tonight for 3 exams tomorrow, but I will address the first / last bit. Dooms is often offline a lot (redundant wording is redundant) so I usually don't get to see any full-Dooms posts until much later (for example, we could not meet up to talk at all today), therefore I can't make a statement as to why he may post / feel a certain way.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Kirbyoshi - Using old meta on Cello.
Teryble Doom~ - Is focused on J, x1, or Kuz from the beginning. Unvotes to a voteless stance.
J - Is sure that X1 should die today for following Cello.

Could you expand on these 3? You mostly just restated their thoughts/actions, but I want to know what YOU think of those actions, not just what they are (you don't have to restrict yourself to the actions you talked about, you can talk about any part of their play). Also, who would you say is scum? Is there no one you think your vote should be on?

I suggest you look back into my posts again. I've been pretty active ever since my first post. Also, even if I 'was' active, how could that one good post change your mind about my 'inactivity' case on me?

I don't consider 14 (then 12) posts THAT active, and as I said, not many of your posts had content; it wasn't a declaration to lynch you nor a case, but sometimes town can't decide on a lynch between the scummier people, so lynching someone with few connections that everyone can agree on could have been a possibility (and might even be now, for a different person).

You basically hiveminded me with concerns to X1's play and Sword's case on kuz, and someone who thinks in the same way you do/has similar stances can be a good indication that they're town, since it's much harder for scum to fake defensible stances that actual townies think of (me being the "actual townie" in this case, lolol).

I feel that scumtell and towntell are not the same thing as meta. From your post, I assume you do.

Universal tells have been shown to be consistent over and over again. Let's take LAL as an example. LAL helps find scum because of inconsistencies. It's how town won Bioware because EE caught Gheb lying about OS's N2 action. There can be instances where lying is protown, but it's so rare and inbetween it's safer to err on the side of caution.

Wait, what? How is following universal tells/meta the SAFE side? Why isn't the safe side NOT listening to stuff other people are telling you and instead trying to understand the pro-town/pro-scum intentions of someone's actions?

Using LAL without any kind of interpretation is a joke. EE didn't catch Gheb lying about OS, and then decided to lynch him because he lied, he lynched him because he lied and lying about such a thing MAKES HIM SCUM. It wasn't just because he lied, it's because lying about your role when you had no good reason to do so is scummy.

And again, my past play is a case in point: Majora's. I lied about being cop as town in mylo because me dying would lose town the game and I couldn't see a way of me not dying without a decent claim. Granted, I was eventually found out and was almost lynched later, but it was much more for my poor early play and had very little to do with me lying about being a cop.

I don't care if universal tells and LAL are consistently correct 99% of the time, because you shouldn't count on this game not being the 1% of the time that it isn't.

/rant

And for his town read on you, are you guys AIM friends? Do you hang out any other than forum games? Have the two of you played recently? Played as scum together? Sometimes you get more insight from those instances. But if he doesn't know you well at all, then that feels more scummy to me.

We played in Sonic mafia (I was town, he was scum) and also in MXC (I was town, he was scum). We lynched him D2 in Sonic and he had around 30 posts and didn't interact much with me, and in MXC he was lynched D1 for not responding to the PM Chibo sent out and OS (his scumbuddy) bussed him for it, and I don't think I ever said anything to him in that game, nor him to me. I haven't talked to him outside of those 2 games, I don't think.

Also another note whoever said we are ending the day with a Kirbyoshi lynch is insane. We have three days and that is plenty of time to change town's thoughts. One day i'll give you it would be tough to change but seriously.

@Kirbyoshi wagon: What is keeping you on KY and not on Teryble Doom~? Would you lynch them over KY? Why would you not? Is their play in your eyes scummy or townie? Would you vote them instead of a NL? Would you prefer a NL to their lynch? Can you explain to me how KY is scummy compared to TD? As in do a compare and contrast. And no this does not mean if one person does this the rest of you are not unobligated of doing this. Tell me what it will take to get you onto TD. I'll try and make your dreams come true We can shoot the breeze and discuss how scummy TD is and how town KY is in comparison.

I'm willing to explain why Kirb is a better lynch than Teryble, but I want you to explain why Teryble is scummy in the first place, because I don't think you (or X1) have done a good job of explaining it at all. The post you quoted is certainly defensive and slightly suspect (IMO), but I don't consider the span of 1 day THAT long of a period, so I don't consider the fact that they haven't made their case yet at all scummy (though I do agree they should get on it). And if you'll notice, only Tery has posted today; Joey was the one talking about making a case and it's likely Tery will need him before he can make it (and he hasn't been on today it seems).

Though yes, I would lynch Teryble if the choice was between him or no lynch (though that's more because I've gotten a lot more town reads than scum reads this D1, and Teryble isn't on my town list).

 

[Sir Bedevere]

^Also, is there anything else that you find scummy about Teryble, besides that post? Even if I'm wrong on the scum-level of that post, I'm not willing to switch over from Kirb to Teryble hot-footed based on just one post.

 

[ranmaru]

X1 is right. Here is my REREAD THOUGHTS.

@SIR B: Sure, I will expand on those. Expansion and TD reply coming up next.

K~

Still think you are town though, until you get lurky and decide not to contribute.

Seems to me that Kuz didn't really know Cello was town. DERP

My kuz vote is 100% serious too.

Near RVS stage. Ya right.

Show me one content post he's made this entire game and I'll withdraw.

Voted earlier on but didn't state reason until asked. Backwards.

Or it could be what I do in the games where you are scum....?

I don't believe that you unvoted to place it on someone else, what did the unvote gain you?

Honestly I don't think one vote from him would really matter anyways. Can't lynch anyone. But in the case of him being stanceless, it would be important to consider.

J, why are you not seeing a kuz lynch?

Why were you seeing a Kuz lynch so early on?

lol waaaaat?

Your pushing this lynch extremely hard on D1 and ableit you have to admit it really is well full of nothing.

Why are you trying to get him lynched on pg 4 when even half of the players have done well diddly squat?

You are even asking for people to vote him! xD

I agree with this post.

Basically from my PoV, the order of who you should lynch: Guilites>scummy people>inactives>nulls>townies>me

If there's no guilties or scummy people, you go for inactives.

He would rather save himself then a possible townie. Get outta town.

Rockin, if you don't include a vote with your first post, then I'm voting for you and never taking it off.

You did indeed take it off, and Rockin never did post with a vote. Explain this please. You were asked this already by someone else and you haven't replied to my knowledge.

@X1: I guess I could see that. So, are you on board against Kirbyoshi and Rockin? Who first?

Do you think X1 can be scum? Why don't you comment on him following you so blindly? You do notice him saying you are wrong, but nothing else. Do you think he is town?

I am for now

Unvote
Vote: Kirbyoshi

Why did you agree with Cello so quickly? How are you not sure Cello can be scum misleading you?

You happened.


Die.

Gee you are really sure he's scum, eh? I can understand from Cello, because he is actually pushin on it, I see the effort from him. NONE FROM YOU. (Or as much as him)

Cello, what happened to this?

Kirb asked about you keeping your vote on Rockin. I don't think this would derail your case though. It's just one point. Why have you ignored that? Why would you say that in the first place?

Unvote Vote: Cello_Marl



It's possible that you're town and playing wildly to elicit activity, but for the time being you are my primary suspicion.

I was going to say we should look at both sides, but I noticed you said that and would keep him under suspicion. I agree. Although I do think he is leaning town, but I'm still wondering about his rockin vote commitment and not commenting on X1 following him.

Vocal, Cello is not scum. At least from what I can tell so far.

How are you so SURE???!? Gee, way to help Cello win his case.

Of course I'm making assumptions. More appropriately, inferences. Do you REALLY think he's just going to come out and TELL us the real reasons WHY he's doing the scummy stupid **** that he is? And I intend to put whatever pressure is necessary to break him.

I like this post.

J you idiot, I explained why DH was town in #146, AND both me and cello 'translated' his one liner that was hard to read. Me in 175 and Cello in #177/ wrt Ranmaru I would lynch him for stuff normally considered noobtown because I know Ran knows better than that and if he tries to get away with the noobcard then he should die. Unvoting in RVS is scummy because it shows you are afraid to leave your vote somewhere when there is no harm, no-one is going to get lynched, and your vote is not serious, hence the name RVS. I also haven't ever buddyed Cello, I've agreed with his stances that's not the same thing and even if it was the circumstances are completely different, kuz had just been attacked by cello and wanted to get out of it, it was a stupid time to ask to be buddies. You then later on go to say you want me lynched out of POLICY. Later more ridiculosity when you manage to twist me saying DH is town into an "auto-clear"

Why do you call J an idiot when you are the idiot for not quoting. Honestly when I saw that post I thought you were reffering to a point for Kuz for being scum... So yeah. Quote you fool. Or use @

Also you agreed more than once. You seemed to use the agreement to jump on wagons. That is what I think. It was also too early to choose sides brah.

What do you think of TD?

I'm confused; why when I quote a post from J does it pop up as Rocking? I don't know what this means really...anyways,

I noticed that when Cello quoted DH. lol

As Cello said, I tend to view mafia as a well communicated group who coordinates their actions. I don't believe they are all knowing, all powerful, but I do look for "informed minority" actions.

Hmmm. Ok, can you elaborate a little further? I don't understand. How can what scum may or may not do help us find if Kirb is town or not?

....darn, kuz was right.

Still, X1 had attacked you early on, and that in itself isn't "doing nothing"

I'm not liking that you are still strongly for scumkuz! and following X1.

Who else are you scumpicks, DH? Why?

Tan is right here for the wrong reasons, its not just that townies do OMGUS, but it just so happens that in this individual case Kirbyo does look very much like an idiot/self-centered townie.

@Ran: In your #451 you have a list of players and comments on them, remember to include your own thoughts on the matter, "Using old meta on Cello." is not enough. Is this scummy? Is it townie? This is your friendly warning, play better. What you say about Tery is good - more of that

@Cello: #477 is an unfakable town tell by Kirbyo.

Thank you, you are right. I did do a re-read, and I hope you can see my stances better.

If you're townie then fight for yourself. I do not believe you're scum and I'm pretty sure there are others that think the same. Giving up is not acceptable as a townie. Don't be disheartened; Cello is pretty much the only one riding your *** right now. Do as I suggested earlier and start contributing things to the conversation other than defending yourself.

I agree. Kirb fight for yourself, don't give up. If you try to garner pity for yourself, I will not help you.