Inception mafia: Town and Indy Joint Win!

[th3kuzinator]

Defending one's self is fine. I never said that it wasn't. My problem with him is that he came back into this game only focusing on what related to him. Look at his scum pick for example. He finds DH to be scummy because of matters which almost only relate to him. It shows a narrow mind set and intentions of self-preservation.

Well yeah, the last time I tried to answer a question not related to me, kirbyoshi told me to gtfo. Besides, if you had read the beginning and end of my 327, you would see that I did not only focus on DH but would have to do a re-read before I would be comfortable putting my vote on anyone but X1 or DH. J already made the case that I wanted to for X1, and I thought DH deserved the attention as his push and subsequent backing of X1 was bogus. Most of the content after I came back was related to DH because I was making a case for DH based on his interactions with X1 and myself.

DH is not scummy just for his interaction with me, as I have already discussed, and I don't see your logic behind your accusations that "responding directly to an attack" is narrow-minded and thus scummy.

 

[Cello_Marl]

I'm going to repeat my post #400 so no one misses it. It's not that it's world shattering or anything, but I really am getting tired of being ignored by Kirbyoshi on that specific point. That, and bolding needs to happen on my vote.

@Rockin: It looks like you have absolutely no idea what to do or think about anyone. So wagon with me.

Unvote Vote Kirbyoshi

@Tanny, but really someone else:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandora
Let's be honest, although there's some content going on the last couple of pages, what I have mostly seen is Kuz telling Teryble how to run their stupid hydra.
I don't know if I find this more funny or ironic. Probably ironic, but we'll find out.

@Kirbyoshi:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirbyoshi
Funny how people with the same win condition tend to say some of the same things, isn't it?
^--I'm getting really tired of asking you why you said this. Why did you say it if you weren't sure of my alignment at that time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirbyoshi
Inactivity later is more scummy than inactivity earlier.
What happened to this? It was apparently enough for you to want to go against Rockin before. Why was Sir Bed's inactivity alright in the long run? Were you fine with his two posts over FIVE days? 50% of the whole 1st Day? You didn't vote for him due to inactivity. By your own standards, you SHOULD be finding him scummy, but you don't.

Be more specific than that, when it comes to Rockin. I want to hear why YOU think he is town; what specifically swayed your opinion? Where do you think his head is at, what do you agree with? Is there anything questionable at all? Really, I would ask you to do a PBPA if you would. But you won't.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Oh, dar, it's because I copied and pasted.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

I thought you were town, Cello (still do). You're playing to your town meta. It's difficult because your town meta is similar to your scum meta. Difficult, but not impossible. I never said I was incapable of doing hard things, Cello.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Why did you say I was hard to get a read on, having never once previously said that you thought I was town? Especially in light of the fact that you were completely open about your thoughts on Sir Bedevere smelling like "sweet townie" after he finally posted. Vocal was all up in my grill; what was the difference?

By what post, yours or mine idc, did you come to your Cello-town read? Same for Rockin and Sir Bed, respective to them.

 

[Cello_Marl]

It's difficult because your town meta is similar to your scum meta.

Oh, wait, you're talking about BATMANFIA 2, aren't you?! WHAT?!

Excluding the fact that that game took place almost a year ago, I had like 3 posts per day in that game, not counting my burst of "hyuk hyuk hyuk" after I hammered Blue Yoshi. Stupid lurky, and the time that I WAS there, I managed to take down my own partner.

You keep talking about my town-meta and scum-meta. What exactly are you looking at? It can't possibly be right, so there's no harm in telling us what that is. If nothing else, we learn where your head is at.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

Oh, wait, you're talking about BATMANFIA 2, aren't you?! WHAT?!

Don't you DARE mention that game to me. Ever. But yes, I am.

Also, you forget to take into account that although that game did take place a long time ago, and you don't consider it a good sample, it's all the personal scum meta I have of you.

And I'm taking my town meta of you from Werewolves of Miller's Hollow (yes, I'm really going retro with this meta business). Although I was killed N1, I still read the entire game as it happened, and I think your play here is quite similar to your play there.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

EBWOP: The "But yes, I am." was supposed to be in spoiler tags, not strikethrough tags. Sorry for any confusion that blunder may have caused on a first read-through.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Why you though (rhetorical question)? There are others who haven't posted yet.

Ah, I didn't consider that angle. OK, what you were doing was reasonable.

@Sir Bedevere: Talk about Rockin's situation, as well as Kuz's.

There really isn't much when it comes to Rockin. He hasn't posted much or have much content. He needs to start posting more and getting more involved with everything (as do I, lol). If we can't come to an agreement concerning some of the more "controversial" lynch choices, I'd be OK with lynching him.

EDIT- OK, his last post has him in my good books, since I agree with with his positions on X1 and kuz. I don't think I want to lynch him toDay.

I think kuz's reason for finding you town is legit. It was weird that he said so as soon as you started attacking him, but town can do that as well, and he's correct in thinking that your desire to understand the mechanics is usually a town tell on you and he was also correct in only using it as a temporary clear for you. I think kuz's own desire to find legitimate tells from people he plays with a lot as something that indicates his townieness.

Sir Bed, you've been pretty quiet this game thus far. What's do you think of Cello's case on KirbYoshi? What do you think of his case on Rockin? Is there anyone else you find interesting at the moment?

I agree with it for the most part. I DEFINITELY didn't like Kirbyoshi buddying me (like, I'm pretty sure he did that in Sonic mafia too lol), especially since, though I don't think my posts were as "utter ****" as Cello did, they definitely weren't as amazing as Kirb made them out to be, and I dislike how he's still joking around even past RVS; I thought he was going to end it after I (and others) started pressuring people and asking questions. I'm not sure if he just does that naturally or because he's scum and trying to appear "charming", or whatever, but I don't like it regardless. Definitely a good lynch toDay.

If you mean where he said that most of Rockin's post was "useless", that was more a "this is a bad post" case than a "you're scum" case. Regardless, while I agree that most of Rockin's post was useless, it doesn't necessarily make him scummy and it only means he needs to be pressured into taking stances more.

As for interesting people, I think Ran needs to be looked into. I haven't really gotten a feel for what her opinions on most of what's been happening are and I feel that she's been lurking (although I mostly ignored the time stamps when I was rereading, so I could be off there lol).

@Sir Bedevere: What do you think of the fact that Kirbyoshi thought you were town for your mere two posts?

^^^

The most notable thing that you had said was your questioning of Sworddancer, wondering why he was defending Kuz. However, according to Kirbyoshi himself, he was just kidding around, crazy "antics", when it came to his interactions with Sworddancer. Do you think he had enough information to come to the conclusion that you are town?

Aren't these the same questions? o.O

And as I said, I don't like the way Kirb has been taking this game less than seriously, especially since it was apparent Sword was asking him a serious question.

---

@X1, could you expand on why kuz unvoting in RVS is scummy? I understand that he did it when Cello was putting pressure on him, and I understand that it's a "standard tell" (which I hate, but blah), but I don't think either reason is completely valid, and aren't strong enough to lynch him on. Do you still think he's scum (and why), and if not, who is (and why)? Also, what do you think of Kirbyoshi? I remember you said he was likely town at some point quite recently - why?

@Ran, please give me a quick summary - at least a sentence or two - on your feelings on each player in the game (how you feel they've been playing, whether you think their reads and/or cases are right/the cases made against them are right/anything else that's relevant - you can also have no opinion, but explain why you don't). At the end of the list, tell me who you think is scum and who you would lynch right now if you had to choose.

@Rockin, what do you think of some of the more inactive people from what you've seen of them? (Teryble, Ran, Tan, J, me)

@Teryble, same question (excluding you, including Rockin).

@Kirbyoshi, along with the questions Cello asked you (ALL the questions, and no, your last two posts didn't answer ALL of them), who do you think is SCUM atm? I've seen you vote/put pressure on people who were inactive/"under the radar", but I don't think I've yet to see you vote/put pressure on someone for genuinely scummy reasons, or at least, I don't remember it from my reread. If you did, please refresh my memory.

Vote: Kirbyoshi

 

[ranmaru]

@Ran: Do you understand what he is getting at? I know you answered in response to this but what exactly is he referencing?








"I'd agree with you." What does this mean? Do you agree or do you not? ^^ Also does this mean you would be voting for X1 if Sir B were more active?

Guys really? Who's lynch bears the most info? *points to X1* Seriously we will learn info in regards to th3kuzi, Kirbyoshi, Myself, Dark Horse, Cello and Rockin. X1 has been Cello's right hand man just doing whatever he does. Must I really explain why? I've done it perfusely. Lynching inactives is just a way scum can scapegoat an easy lynch. I am adamantly apposed to lynching inactives and rather I like to lynch people who are actually being scummy.

Yes. I have spoken to him before about advice and such, and he has seen me play badly in past games. And I understand it is him challenging me and I accept that so that I can improve.

Yes, I noticed that X1 voted along with Cello, and was pushing a Kuz lynch. I don't think my sir B vote will do. (Inactives can't respond to pressure)

Unvote: Sir B
Teryble Doom

@T-doom: You leaving you vote on someone who isn't inactive isn't scum hunting. (Well I mean LEAVING it there, even I couldn't leave my vote on Sir B, it would pressure nothing)

Sorry J, but X1 doesn't seem scummy to me here. He isn't as aggresive as always. He did follow Cello, that is duly noted.

@X1: Why did you agree with Cello? Who else do you think is scum?

noobs crack and make themselves easier to read. Hence what I was talking to Rockin about when in community we pressure wagonned Gboy and he cracked, I just happened to be a noob and misinterpret it that game.

Ah ok I understand.

Honestly, the main reason you're not being convincing is because you're being wishy-washy. If you want an example as to how I try to be convincing, then here (although I'm the least convincing person and that's one of the things I'm working on as a player.)

Lets use X1

He has been following you throughout the game.

X1, I want to vote you because you lack your own thoughts. If you're just following Cello around, the only person benefiting is Cello, which of course doesn't include the whole town.

Cello, how do you feel about X1 going with you? Even if you've already said it once.

How does everyone else feel about X1? Do people not think that the way he's playing is very safe and scummy? Following someone that's play style shows them as a townie is very safe.

The way he was being wishy-washy exactly with Cello is kinda eh. Either they're thinking pretty much exactly alike(doubtful), they're both scum(cello isn't scum), they're masons or something of that sort (ehhh...), or X1 is scum and following Cello(I think its this). Lets face it guys, X1 is being scummy.

How are you so sure Cello isn't scum? I don't think X1 is scum.

Why ask Cello if he had already spoken his thoughts about it? Useless.

Besides inactives and x1, pick 3 people you think can be scum AND WHY.

@Kirbyoshi: You said that I was hard to get a read on. You had not said that you had a town read on me, nor acting in such a way (that I remember) that implied you thought as such. Yet, you said,



How is it that you were SO sure that I have the town win condition?

Why would you ask this, Cello?

I mean, why do you word it like that? I noticed that Kirb said he didn't have a read on you yet but said that. So basically you MEAN "Doesn't this statement contradict you not having a read on Me [Cello]?"

But asking in in that manner seems risky.

Who else is scum besides Kirb to you, Cello?

@Kirb: Why just go on Meta? Why not also try to get a read?

 

[Cello_Marl]

Alright, then. Since you seem to think that 11 month old meta is reliable, then SURELY 7 month old meta is acceptable, right? These are from about 6 months ago, when you were town in the original Decisive Games mafia. It was also the last time you were town.

I don't like it because it has the same effect as asking who I think is town. If you're scum, you have a very good reason to ask me that question, then NK whoever I answer with, to make me confused/uncomfortable in endgame. You would want to kill whoever I know can consistently get a good read on.

If you felt this way before, why are you only comfortable giving your town reads? Why are you even comfortable doing that AT ALL, given this is how you feel?

OS, Chaco, Frozen, not necessarily in that order. Although my suspicion on OS could simply be because I don’t like him. Chaco for lurking. Reasoning for Frozen coming soon to a Mafia thread near you.

Chaco wasn't lurking. This shows that you are fallible; but not here. Every time you've spoken about something, you've had an answer. You're too prepared. Or rather, it feels like you're paying more attention to NOT saying contradictory/incorrect statements. Continuing this thought, you already found these three people suspicious by post 360, with much of it being silly crap. And yet you have nothing here? Interesting sidenote: ALL three of his scum reads in that game were WRONG. BUT, the important thing is that he was brave enough to make them. You can't be "wrong" when you call a person "townie".

I simply don’t like it when people try to meta themselves. If you’re scum here, it makes it worthless at best.

I just thought this one was funny.

Being town is all about baiting scum to slip up, and if you outright say your intentions, scum will deliberately either come up with a reason to not answer it, or be extremely careful when they answer, so they don’t slip up.

I've not seen any scum-baiting here from you. Only, "I don't have any scum reads".

Funny, I feel the same way about you. I know for a fact from previous experience that you are not dumb. So, why were you so off about your analysis of me? Intentional misleading imo.

Vote: Frozenflame

In Werewolves, I cleared you because I realized you were town. I've been tunneling the **** out of you here. I'd have imagined that you would have at LEAST been doubtful of my alignment.

And I'm taking my town meta of you from Werewolves of Miller's Hollow (yes, I'm really going retro with this meta business). Although I was killed N1, I still read the entire game as it happened, and I think your play here is quite similar to your play there.

From. Which. Post? This game.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Ranmaru: Kirbyoshi's scummates are probably one of Sir Bedevere/Teryble Doom, with a MUCH higher chance of it being Teryble Doom. Definitely NOT Rockin, Kuz, Vocal, and probably not you.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Oh, also, in case anyone is wondering about my 180 on Rockin just now, I changed my mind on him after his first few posts. I thought it would be useful if I didn't make it obvious that I had, and I think it has been.

 

[Cello_Marl]

These are from about 6 months ago, when you were town in the original Decisive Games mafia. It was also the last time you were town.

Something else, before anyone gets any dumb Gambler's Fallacy ideas in their head, he's only played in Sonic Mafia between that game and this one, and the two before THAT were probably Werewolves and Batmanfia (both town). So if you're going to use that fallacy at all, use it to consider that he must be scum.

Also, I misread the scumteam; he was correct on 1 of the 3. But the point I made here is still valid; he wasn't afraid to go with what he truly thought.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Yeah, probably Teryble Doom. Scummate.

Oh, also, NOT Sworddancer. Forgot about him for some reason.

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah, probably Teryble Doom. Scummate.

Oh, also, NOT Sworddancer. Forgot about him for some reason.

What made you come to that decision? I mean, what made you sure it was probably him, out from him and Sir B?

 

[Cello_Marl]

Reason for TerDoom-Scum: They were willing to lynch Sir Bed, they make excuses rather than cases (especially about Kuz and X1), and they think I'm town (really, Joey should be screaming at the top of his lungs by now that I'm scum. Yet, not one word).

Two reasons for Bed-Town: Sir Bed's most recent post, where he is driving attention back onto Kirbyoshi, and the fact that Kirbyoshi seems like he's going out of his way to make it seem like he's approaching Sir Bed and Rockin two different ways.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Speaking of Bed, good night.

 

[Tandora]

Guys, I keep reading about Person Y's meta. This is a BAD IDEA. I'll explain why with the following examples:

@Everyone, what do you think about my accusations that this is not DH's town meta? Do you agree or disagree with my case against him? If not, why is he town? Is X1's reasoning for this legit?

DH's town meta is scummy as hell. Seriously, I already pointed out how he lost FF6 for town by not only lying, but lying badly. There's the good possibility that DH's town meta is still evolving because he's actually learning from his mistakes. *gasp* Shocking, I know.

When did I ever say this? I asked the hydra why the text was not in white if they had discussed it and both came to the conclusion that I was scum. I never said they did not have a valid point, as they had not even presented a point to me in the first place.

It's not an exact quote. I tend to use quotation marks for paraphrasing in SWF. But that's how I read your argument which was my intent in the original posting.

Don't you DARE mention that game to me. Ever. But yes, I am.

Also, you forget to take into account that although that game did take place a long time ago, and you don't consider it a good sample, it's all the personal scum meta I have of you.

And I'm taking my town meta of you from Werewolves of Miller's Hollow (yes, I'm really going retro with this meta business). Although I was killed N1, I still read the entire game as it happened, and I think your play here is quite similar to your play there.

OMG, huge example of how using meta is bad. KY takes meta from over a year ago to prove Cello is scum? How many of us still play the same way over a year later? Really? Also, I don't like how he uses a game he doesn't want to be mentioned. (Even if he's joking, it's not a good mind set to go into.) He even admits how retro his meta is.

Reason for TerDoom-Scum: They were willing to lynch Sir Bed, they make excuses rather than cases (especially about Kuz and X1), and they think I'm town (really, Joey should be screaming at the top of his lungs by now that I'm scum. Yet, not one word).

Two reasons for Bed-Town: Sir Bed's most recent post, where he is driving attention back onto Kirbyoshi, and the fact that Kirbyoshi seems like he's going out of his way to make it seem like he's approaching Sir Bed and Rockin two different ways.

Ok, so look at Cello's reasons here. The first one is meta on Joey. Bad play! There's no reason Joey shouldn't be changing his meta-bias against Cello since they've played several games of forum mafia lately and Joey is learning how to better deal with Cello's playstyle. EXCEPT Cello expects Joey to show he's town by hating Cello's play. -_-

However, Cello's reasons for Bed are good because they are in game relevant and should be considered.

Guys, I know everyone had perks and slight meta on their playstyle, but it cannot and should not be our main defense on a particular person.

Ironically, having said that, I actually found KY's attempt to use old meta on Cello to be a townie read. If he had scummates, wouldn't they have pointed out more recent scum plays for KY to reference?

 

[Teryble Doom~]

@Ran: The last time I posted in this thread, Sir Bed was still considered inactive bro.

Unvote: Sir Bed.

@Cello: I've read through games with your scum meta and your town meta. Both very recent. I've also had SEVERAL people tell me that when you play rock-headed, that you're obviously town. I'm trying to make myself a better player by not tunneling the obvious town. Sorry if this shocks you. I'm also sorry for using meta to show he's town, but it's painfully obvious. The reason why I'm saying you're not convincing and such is because you could pretty easily get town a win if you started realizing that all of your opinions aren't all right all the time.

I think the way J is playing is scummy, just so you all know. We're going to make a case against J, Kuz, or X1 when we get back on.

Also at ran: No. You're getting J, Kuz, and X1 for now. If you don't like the fact that X1 is in there, then sorry. I don't really think anyone else is playing scummy at this point.

Isn't being wishy-washy changing your votes around a lot? Kuz -> Kirbyo -> Sir Bed -> back to Kirbyo just gave me the feel that he's not being strong enough with his opinions.

I'm going to re-read Kirbyo, talk about this with Tery, and then we'll post our thoughts. (I never got to talk to Tery about J because I just started thinking it very recently.)

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I'm definitely lagging behind in this game...might have to replace out...

You caught me. But actually, maybe it was a WIFOM to not get myself lynched so that when you called me out on it it was a WIFOM to actually get myself lynched. You see where this is going? Got to love how you even used the word probably to describe a WIFOM situation.

...What?

No, I'm saying that you attempted to act like a jester to avoid yourself from being lynched

These statement get us no-where and really highlight that you are unsure of what you are accusing me for. Do you have any proof I meant it as a reaction test? Any proof to the contrary? We could just go back and forth all day without solving anything.

Done something less scummy and I might've thought it was a legit reaction test. However, buddying with someone because they weren't playing their scumplay, yet you had no idea what their scumplay was. In a situation like that, "Reaction test" seems like moreof a cop-out reasons.

This is not how Dark Horse plays town. He usually does not use this type of language to make a point

Where are you basing this off of?

Are you sure your meta is accuracte, even though your scumcello meta was dead wrong?

Why is my reasoning for voting X1 shoddy? Do you disagree that he simply banked off of Cello's assertions and made a poor push in my direction? Do you also disagree that he has yet to make any moves that push for someone other than who Cello was pushing for? What is your reasoning for affirming x1 as town?

Kuz, you had voted for X1 because he wasn't doing anything. However, he was the first person to accuse you of being scum. I would call that doing something,

Do you have any other scum picks? Or am I the only one who has been playing pretty darn scummy.

You;ve been plying the most scummy out of my picks.

First of all, this statement is simply untrue. I never attacked you in DnD, as, I was too busy playing up the noobcard to do any type of attack.

iirc, you were like "Wow, seriously?" after I had attacked you for overusing your noobcard.

I already explained in thread why I did in YT memes.

But you had called me deadweight in YT memes.

secondly, I am not personally attacking you in any of these posts, like I somewhat did in YT memes. I am simply refuting your case against me, which is bogus. If you find that town-kuz would just ignore your points and that scum-kuz would respond to them, you have your meta completely wrong.

Yet you voted me, which is what scum-kuz does

No it's not that scummy. (buddying)

Buddying early on because "This isn't cello's scum meta" when he doesn't even know what it is something that goes under my scumdar.

How so? (the parenthesis part)

Basically, an excuse for something scummy "I was seeing how you guys would react t something scummy like that"

Iirc wasn't it Cello who started th3kuzi wagon and began adamantly pushing it in which X1 started just taking what Cello had already given him, inflating what he already called as scummy? How do you feel that X1 now has said that he believes kuzi can now be town after this entire situation?

X1 had firt attacked kuz. My bad.

iirc X1 had attacked uz before cello came into the game.

If he believes kuz can be town, then that's a bad read.

Why after kuzi dies? Do you still maintain this feeling that kuzi is scummy?

Yep, kuz should die before anyone else

Dark Horse, what do you think about X1's auto-clear of you? What do you make of the Kirbyoshi lynch? What would you make of an X1 lynch? What would you make of a Ran lynch

Nothing much.

Krib, he is kind of suspicious, though definitely not as scummy as kuz.

X1, though you do bring up a good point, more people will have to take notice of that before the lynch happens.

Don't see a ran lynch, nothing screams scum from his posts.

Cello is town. He would be quiet if he was scum

Kirb, try discworld for scumcello meta

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@tan if you say that lie was on purpose one more time, you'll meet a terrible fate.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

OMG, huge example of how using meta is bad. KY takes meta from over a year ago to prove Cello is scum? How many of us still play the same way over a year later? Really? Also, I don't like how he uses a game he doesn't want to be mentioned. (Even if he's joking, it's not a good mind set to go into.) He even admits how retro his meta is.

Misrep much?

unvote Teryble Doom~
Vote: Tandora

Show me ONE place where I have accused Cello of being scum.

^^^That will also answer Sir Bed's 409. If at any point I've missed any questions addressed to me, feel free to quote them for me. I'm lazy and don't want to look back.

@Ran's 410: Meta is used in most of the reads I (personally) get. Most of the time it plays a much smaller role, but with Cello specifically, especially in games where he likes to attack me, any read solely based on the current game's play will be supercharged with emotion and OMGUS. Even by his own admission (even if my data was from a year or so ago), town Cello is very aggressive, and he's been very aggressive this game.

 

[Teryble Doom~]

Unvote: Sir B
Teryble Doom

@T-doom: You leaving you vote on someone who isn't inactive isn't scum hunting. (Well I mean LEAVING it there, even I couldn't leave my vote on Sir B, it would pressure nothing)

Swell idea. Vote us because Sir Bedevere began posting his thoughts after we voted him, and we were clearly online the past 24 hours and just lurking. Use common sense, derp.

I'll follow up on everything new from last night and post thoughts on inactives.

 

[th3kuzinator]

DH you should re-read the sequence of events.

 

[X1-12]

How does everyone else feel about X1? Do people not think that the way he's playing is very safe and scummy? Following someone that's play style shows them as a townie is very safe.

Please explain how being a loud aggressive player is playing safe.

The way he was being wishy-washy exactly with Cello is kinda eh. Either they're thinking pretty much exactly alike(doubtful), they're both scum(cello isn't scum), they're masons or something of that sort (ehhh...), or X1 is scum and following Cello(I think its this). Lets face it guys, X1 is being scummy.

Wishy-washy = not including a clear opinion in your posts. What I was doing was changing my votes, you'd be best off describing it as wagon-hopping. You can explain to me why this is scummy in early D1

@Cello: Do you remember how in Newbie 7 original I attacked you saying you were bone-headed and wishy washy at the same time?? (as scum) Tery did that

@Ran: I find your inability to put 2 and 2 together hilarious. You ask me"@X1: Why did you agree with Cello? Who else do you think is scum?" Followed directly by a quote of me talking about why I pressure in early game. You are town, provisionally, just an idiot.

@Sir B: The reasons people unvote are A) You want to change your vote. B) You don't want the person you voted to be lynched yet, i.e there is more to gain from the Day. or C) You purposely want to make a stand against the current lynch wagon (ie your scum-read has changed to be a town-read). A) Is completely discounted because he didn't revote until 20 minutes later, even then it was for a completely terrible reason. B) and C) Are both completely stupid in RVS because there is no wagon and no-one is set-up to get lynched. Unvote implies he just wants to coast

KY's most recent post is weak as ****, idk ******* town perhaps.

DH is still town, I said kuz is town iirc but I'm not sure why, he's null leaning scum from the latest

 

[Tandora]

@ KY, I cannot find the post I originally was referencing, but I remember you saying you were looking at Cello's scum meta from a year ago and read it as you were using it to prove him scum.

Obviously I misread it. I screwed up. I am calling slight johns on that I was a moron and am currently in four games. I just need to be more careful about rereading before replying.

But, nice OMGUS, which is a townie tell imho.

 

[Ronike]

Sorry guys, had to babysit my siblings the last two days and didn't know until about 20 minutes after I got there that their computer was fried.

Vote Count (7/13 to lynch):

Sworddancer [0]:
X1-12 [1]: J,
th3kuzinator [2]: Dark Horse, Sworddancer.,
Tandora [1]: Kirbyoshi,
Ranmaru [0]:
Kirbyoshi [4]: X1-12, Tandora, Cello_Marl, Sir Bedevere,
Cello_Marl [1]: -Vocal-,
Sir Bedevere [0]:
Teryble Doom~ [0]:
Dark Horse [1]: th3kuzinator,
J [0]:
-Vocal- [0]:
Rockin [0]:

Not Voting: Rockin, Ranmaru, Teryble Doom~

Ranmaru, In your last post you unvoted and then had tery in bold with no vote in front of it. I don't know if that means you want to vote or not, so I will assume not.

Actvities:
X1: 1/17
Kuz: 1/17
Tandora: 1/17
Ran: 1/17
Kirb: 1/17
Cello: 1/17
Bed: 1/17
Tery: 1/17
DH: 1/17
Vocal: 1/16
Rockin: 1/16
J: 1/15

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Mod Notes:
I am NOT implementing a vote to prod system, I'm using a straight 72 hour prod system, so long as I am here to dole out the prod. So all of you requesting prods, I want you to understand that if the person in question has posted within 72 hours, I will not be prodding, as life happens, and one post per 72 hours is fair in my opinion. I have tried to get in contact with some people if they aren't posting before the prod deadline if they are missing a lot.

Also, I just realized the rules didn't have Sample Roles, which it was meant to, so now it does.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

Find the post, Tan. I'd like to explain it to you.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Kirbyoshi:

Even by his own admission (even if my data was from a year or so ago), town Cello is very aggressive, and he's been very aggressive this game.

This is an example of PRECISELY why you need to die. You've been rationalizing your town read on me the ENTIRE game. I don't give a fat flying **** if you can point to evidence that I've been acting in accordance with my town-meta BY THIS POINT. What I DO care about is whether or not you can point to evidence of the same BEFORE YOU FIRST ASSERTED THAT I WAS TOWN, and to JUSTIFY THE ASSERTIONS YOU MADE CONCERNING YOUR READS. You have shown that you CANNOT. So. Die.

How is my town meta similar to my scum meta? What do I do when I am both (which would imply similarity), using examples from Werewolves and Batmanfia (since in those two games, I supposedly played similarly [@Everyone else: I played in polar opposite ways])? How did you determine that I was playing to my "town meta" in this game?

Which post of mine caused you to believe that I am town? Do you not understand why I am asking this question? Why aren't you answering it?

The ONLY person that you think is scummy is Tandora...FOR MISREPRESENTING YOU?! That's ALL that you've got, after all this time?

@Tanny:

OMG, huge example of how using meta is bad. KY takes meta from over a year ago to prove Cello is scum? How many of us still play the same way over a year later? Really? Also, I don't like how he uses a game he doesn't want to be mentioned. (Even if he's joking, it's not a good mind set to go into.) He even admits how retro his meta is.

The fact remains that he TRIED to use CLEARLY POLAR-OPPOSITE meta, yet said they were similar and therefore difficult to read, and THEN tried to say that he WAS able to read me. It would be like me saying "Marshy is town because he posted", then tried to pass it off as SERIOUS. That is LITERALLY what he's trying to do here. And THAT is scummy. NOT bad. NOT stupid. SCUMMY.

Ok, so look at Cello's reasons here. The first one is meta on Joey. Bad play! There's no reason Joey shouldn't be changing his meta-bias against Cello since they've played several games of forum mafia lately and Joey is learning how to better deal with Cello's playstyle. EXCEPT Cello expects Joey to show he's town by hating Cello's play. -_-

Their willingness to lynch Rockin is meta? How? Same for the fact that they were making excuses rather than cases. That, and do you even know WHY I think Joey should be voting for me? It's because I lied about him, as far as I know. That should have earned his ire, but alas, no.

Also, what you misread was when he mentioned Batmanfia. He said it was his only Cello-scum reference, that's all.

Ironically, having said that, I actually found KY's attempt to use old meta on Cello to be a townie read. If he had scummates, wouldn't they have pointed out more recent scum plays for KY to reference?

No. Nowadays, scummates that aren't you don't worry about individual tactics, especially if Kirbyoshi turns out to be their most experienced member. "Play naturally" is the rule of the Day.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

How can you be sure that's what she meant, Cello? Because I saw nothing pointing to that, either in her posts or in my own memory.

Also, I was wrong about my meta of you. It's not as similar as I remember, and I apologize for any confusion this caused you.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

^^^That will also answer Sir Bed's 409. If at any point I've missed any questions addressed to me, feel free to quote them for me. I'm lazy and don't want to look back.

Er...not really. While I do think it makes her look bad and it may indicate she was skimming, I don't think she's totally scummy because of it. I hardly think one post, especially one small slip-up like this, is enough to indict her alone. Any other reason you think Tan is scum? Anyone else you think is scummy?

These are 3 of the most important questions I saw in Cello's most recent post before his last one just now, and I'd like you to answer all 3 in more than a sentence's worth of detail as well as address any points he made in his last one (they might overlap a bit). Click the links to understand the context:

^--I'm getting really tired of asking you why you said this. Why did you say it if you weren't sure of my alignment at that time?

Why was Sir Bed's inactivity alright in the long run? Were you fine with his two posts over FIVE days? 50% of the whole 1st Day? You didn't vote for him due to inactivity. By your own standards, you SHOULD be finding him scummy, but you don't.

By what post, yours or mine idc, did you come to your Cello-town read? Same for Rockin and Sir Bed, respective to them.

@Sir B: The reasons people unvote are A) You want to change your vote. B) You don't want the person you voted to be lynched yet, i.e there is more to gain from the Day. or C) You purposely want to make a stand against the current lynch wagon (ie your scum-read has changed to be a town-read). A) Is completely discounted because he didn't revote until 20 minutes later, even then it was for a completely terrible reason. B) and C) Are both completely stupid in RVS because there is no wagon and no-one is set-up to get lynched. Unvote implies he just wants to coast

I don't really think you can read that deep into RVS like that, especially since it's, well, RVS. People vote and unvote in RVS whenever they feel like it and I don't think anyone saw kuz unvote and said "OMG BACKING OFF HIS OWN CASE IN RVS SCUMSCUMSCUM" unless they were only using "classic scum tells", which is total BS because just because scum does something a lot, especially something that has no real gain for scum (in this case, unvoting in RVS), does not mean town can't do it too. Case in point: I've unvoted in RVS before without revoting or anything (as town). I just don't like having my vote misrepresented when things start to move into the actual game.

I don't understand how unvoting "implies he just wants to coast" either, although if that was his plan, I guess he succeeded lol (but I'd chalk that up to town just not keeping their pressure game up kekeke).

@ALL: Do you think the reason kuz unvoted Cello/thought he was town in RVS was legitimate? He asked this before and I think I was the only one who answered, lol. Knowing if kuz's reasons for backing off of Cello were factual will help me/us better determine whether his unvote was scummy or not (I don't think I know Cello enough to say if kuz is right or wrong as much as others do).

But, nice OMGUS, which is a townie tell imho.

wat

Could you explain how Kirb OMGUSing you the way he did is a town tell?

or am i getting 'd

@RANMARU, please respond to my request. I could understand if you were too busy, but please at least acknowledge it. I need to know where you head is at, because I don't feel like you've made more than one or two solid stances all game (I could be wrong, quote them if I am). Here it is again in case you missed it:

@Ran, please give me a quick summary - at least a sentence or two - on your feelings on each player in the game (how you feel they've been playing, whether you think their reads and/or cases are right/the cases made against them are right/anything else that's relevant - you can also have no opinion, but explain why you don't). At the end of the list, tell me who you think is scum and who you would lynch right now if you had to choose.

 

[Tandora]

Could you explain how Kirb OMGUSing you the way he did is a town tell?

Mayling once commented that OMGUS was originally done by a townie player. And pretty much every time we've seen omgus is by a town player. Typically a newer player, but even experienced players when frustrated enough, will respond with "NO U".

Thus, town tell.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Tanny, are you sure that's the path you want to take?

 

[ranmaru]

@Sir B: No problem. My bad, just as I posted I noticed your request, but then I had to get off the computer. I will post it shortly, though.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Mayling once commented that OMGUS was originally done by a townie player. And pretty much every time we've seen omgus is by a town player. Typically a newer player, but even experienced players when frustrated enough, will respond with "NO U".

Thus, town tell.

I really hate this line of thinking; it's the same reason I hate X1's thinking that unvoting in RVS=scum tell, thus, kuz=scum. It's a completely arbitrary way of determining alignments and isn't reliable at all. What if, regardless of alignment, I started OMGUSing everyone who put pressure on me because I decided to take up a defensive playing style? Using that logic, you'd be incorrectly identifying me as town when I'm scum half the time if you said "Sir Bed OMGUS'd, thus, town".

MAYBE, statistically, townies are more likely to OMGUS. I could concede that if you could prove it (don't bother). But considering Kirb's history, to say "Kirb OMGUS'd, thus, ignoring all the scummy things he's done up to this point, town" is seriously wrong.

Tan, do you consider meta pertaining to specific players different from meta pertaining to "common town or scum tells"? I noticed you don't like people using player-specific meta, but you're OK with using meta related to statistics and "universal tells" and such (not that they're completely contradictory, but I would like to know why you think one is OK and the other isn't).

Also, what's your opinion of Kirb's actions pertaining to his unequal pressuring of inactives, knowing/getting the feeling that I was town from 2 posts, inconsistent read on Cello, etc.? I don't remember getting a sold stance on him from you, only a dislike for his use of old meta on Cello.

@Ran Not a problem.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Note: I'm as sick as a dog right now (I have a fever of 102) and that my activity might be affacted by this. I'll try to stay active but I'm making no promises.

Now a few things:

Well yeah, the last time I tried to answer a question not related to me, kirbyoshi told me to gtfo. Besides, if you had read the beginning and end of my 327, you would see that I did not only focus on DH but would have to do a re-read before I would be comfortable putting my vote on anyone but X1 or DH. J already made the case that I wanted to for X1, and I thought DH deserved the attention as his push and subsequent backing of X1 was bogus. Most of the content after I came back was related to DH because I was making a case for DH based on his interactions with X1 and myself.

DH is not scummy just for his interaction with me, as I have already discussed, and I don't see your logic behind your accusations that "responding directly to an attack" is narrow-minded and thus scummy.

Responding only to the attack was my problem with you. You didn't have anything else to say to anyone upon your reread? Also, who cares about what Kirbyoshi said? You can ask other people questions about what they're doing if you want.

Also, I saw you mention X1 in your opening post but I thought it was insignificant to point out.

@Tery: X1 is correct, what they were doing was vote hoping. Being wishy-washy is where you can't make up your mind. That is the least of there problems.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@Mod: You forgot to include me in the "actives" list.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Ah, we have 13 people? I kept thinking it was just 12 due to the thread title.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Hey J, if we were to lynch X1, Tandora, Kirbyoshi, Teryble Doom, and...I guess Dark Horse and someone else, A) do you think we'd win, and B) would you be willing to support me against them?