In depth look at Lucas' move set - (#1) Back air.

[Irsic]

I'd like to have a topic to compile the posts of an in-depth look at each of Lucas' moves. The first move, which I see overlooked but mildly underrated, is Lucas' back air, which I find to be a great move but has it's downfalls.

I'd like input from every Lucas' user. I want to know how you apply this move, what situations you apply it in, you idea of it's effectiveness against certain characters, and how ineffective it is against certain characters.

Here we go -

Obviously, it's a spike. It can be a tough spike to get used to, can be hard to land, but can be extremely rewarding when you do land it, and can kill horizontally if you land the spike on a standing opponent. (Needs a pretty high %, not reliable, normally just dumb luck)

Though I have found that bair has a pretty disjointed hitbox, and is generally an unexpected attack because of how weak it appears but how strange it is to apply when on the ground. If sour spotted it doesn't do much damage (I'm not even sure without looking) but I have never actually been punished before for attacking someone on the ground with it.

In a very weak sense, bAir is almost WoP, it's just a very weak one. It's not a fast attack, but you won't really be punished for using it, as you can properly space yourself with DI, and hopefully either follow up with another jump, or wavebounce a PK away from your opponent after landing.

Personally my favorite spike in the game as it doesn't have a lot of lag, and isn't really that difficult to land, but can be difficult to stop. I have found that it doesn't work on Donkey Kong at all, so I'm in need of better edge-guarding techniques against him. (I've just resorted to PK1 is all)

Currently looking for more input for how other people apply this skill, or avoid it all together (please explain why then too).

(also this board has been lacking any serious discussion, so lets get something going, please)

 

[ZMan]

I like doing a bair-> fsmash.

 

[Irsic]

At low percentages?

 

[prOAPC]

I only use bair for spiking, or after a double jump dair that doesn't spike (on stage). If you see me using sh bair, is because i missed the nair.
I don't usually go for the spike because my friends use characters that are hard to gimp (Marth).
The advantages that Lucas' bair has over other characters spikes, are the following:
- if you miss the spike, no matter you hit with bair or not, you can always follow it with another bair, double jump bair or dair.
- you don't fast fall is you use the attack with c-stick.
- way easy to recover after the spike, i recommend (auto)RAR, spike, grab the edge with ropesnake.
*Waits for specials and nair*

 

[Irsic]

Yeah, certain characters can become easier to gimp though, but Marth is definitely not one of them. Another character that I basically just use PKT1 to harass while recovering.

We'll get there apc, be patient. <_< I currently want to cover some of the attacks I use less to hopefully uncover greater uses for them now.

 

[Levitas]

I find it to be too slow and have too little range/hitstun to use above the ground.

 

[themrskills]

I use the bair for setups on certain characters (mainly Ike-a good one I play often) after a fthrow at mid-high percentages. The hitstun is just long enough that I can approach with an auto-RAR bair for a spike into the stage followed by a fsmash. It's not a guaranteed tactic, but throwing it out there once or twice in a battle can net you a KO.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I generally use it to cover myself when falling down and for general offstage harassment. The general lack of lag means it's usually fairly safe unless you throw it out point blank or something. The only thing I've noticed when using it offstage is that it's really hard to get to characters that recover high.

 

[Neon Ness]

I usually short hop it over my opponent's head, then follow up with forward tilt since Back air stuns them for so long. I use it sometimes offstage, but not much. I usually bust out forward air to KO.

 

[Irsic]

Forward air will be discussed soon, as sometimes it has strange as **** trajectories.

 

[themrskills]

Yah for fair->fair-> pkt ftw.

 

[Dxt XXII]

Bair is good for RAR, i do it all the time, lol.

Fair->Nair FTW

 

[Neon Ness]

Bair is good for RAR, i do it all the time, lol.

Fair->Nair FTW

Seriously? Seriously. Seriously?

Whenever I use forward air over the ground I get the heck shieldgrabbed. I dunno how to use it without being predictable. I use it off stage... Neutral air is much trickier for opponents to handle, I've found. They often drop their shield before the last few hits and get knocked away. Also, what's with all of the Kirby hate in your signature?

Whoops. Getting off-topic...

 

[Irsic]

Whoa whoa whoa, still on back air. Forward air is next.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

For back air, would you need to land a tip to spike or does it come out on a certain moment during the move's execution as his foot is falling?

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

in order to land the spike you must hit with the very tip of his foot (not the hexagons) also note that this can be done at anytime during the duration of the attack

 

[Tyr_03]

Bair is good for antijuggling against characters that hit through your Dair easily. It's slow and cumbersome to use above the ground usually but every once in a while it can be used aerially pretty well. Obviously it's great for spiking.

I don't really see how you can call this in depth at all when you neglect to describe the sourspot area, spike area, damage percentage, kill percentage, strength of spike, inability to knock opponents upward when they're standing on the ground (unlike every other spike,) hitbox range etc.

 

[Marceux]

^ Agree with Tyr.

I sometimes mix in an occasional bair when in the middle of nair juggling for unpredictability's sake. And a lot of the time I don't even go for the bair spike except in friendlies. There are safer options to gimp. Also, the bair is a wonderful wall of pain at higher percentages and off-stage. But again, only in friendlies.

 

[soccerdude7200]

if you dont spike with the bair (hit with the non spiking hitboxes) it is good to follow up with another jump and then a dair.

 

[BlackFLow]

i dno if this is doable but
ive been trying to do a ground fullhop dair then double jump before landing into another dair to spike

 

[Levitas]

Dair DJ Dair is doable, but not a combo. Dair does not set up for nor combo into a bair.

 

[BlackFLow]

to clarify i was thinking rar dair to hit them off the stage and before landing do another one just as they fly off the edge

 

[Levitas]

Dair isn't gonna hit anyone offstage, except with a sourspot final hit and very specific DI.

Good luck getting that to work.

 

[xoxokev]

i don't really have much luck with the bair...
its difficult for me to time the spike, whenever i get the opponent off stage, i always try to chase with RAR to bair... but i only get the spike something like 1 out of 15 times... i guess i should just practice more (back to training mode).. i think im better off chasing with PKT

EDIT: btw, the failed spike -> double jump dair works very well

 

[Irsic]

Bair is good for antijuggling against characters that hit through your Dair easily. It's slow and cumbersome to use above the ground usually but every once in a while it can be used aerially pretty well. Obviously it's great for spiking.

I don't really see how you can call this in depth at all when you neglect to describe the sourspot area, spike area, damage percentage, kill percentage, strength of spike, inability to knock opponents upward when they're standing on the ground (unlike every other spike,) hitbox range etc.

I probably should have titled this discussion, not an in-depth look, as the wrong word had completely misconstrued (not your fault) your idea of what this thread should have been. Though I will eventually (when I'm not swamped up the *** with finals) compile the best information into the first post.

 

[Cactupuss]

This is one of my main defensive attacks/mind games. I mostly use it to pick up some slag if i'm at high %'s. I start jump off and on the ledge, then when the come over to try and edge gaurd I walk off and Bair back up. It hits them through the platform, and propels me far enough to hit them with another Bair, the second hit sends them away from me fairly far so I finish with PK fire/freeze if they are far enough. Hope this helps

 

[PK Starstorm]

I land it very often. I understand exactly how it works after I read a thread about it. I can hit with it from behind too. I find the bair to ftilt ofr bat stick works pretty well. also because of how it hits, it's a pretty good move over all. In the hexagons(I call this the ray path). In the ray path, it is very weak and hits for 7%. on his foot/leg or body, it can hit for 9-10%, and the spike which is at the very tip of his foot hits for 12% and sends them down obviously.

I like it, because if you miss the spike you can still hit them with the leg for 10% and good diagonal knockback. at around 130% this can kill when close to the edge.

With trying to land it. practice in training mode wih the cpu set to jump. How I interpret it, is he psychically hooks you, then flicks you off like a boogar.lol He has personal space issues, so he wants to get the opponent off his foot ASAP