Improving Pit's Reputation

[Wingless]

Ugh. I hate Warios. Their movement is so...weird.

 

[Don Guero]

lol wario is a pretty fun character XD
i go pit cuz hes the only character i can actually use in a serious match

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I secondary Pit but this thread makes me want to double main as him and wario.

Near impossible though, considering I find Wario's bike infinitely more enjoyable than my favorite tactics as Pit (air camping, perfectly looped arrow shots, and multi-hit combos that remind me of Llyod)

Keep playing Pit Krystedez! What are Wario's bad matchups? Maybe Pit can handle them better than Wario.

 

[Krystedez]

IMO, from worst to okay... FOR ME.

D3, Olimar, Camping Snake, and sometimes on the rare occasion Falco is annoying.

I handle Marths perfectly fine right now and know what to do, Peach is not a bother, and MK is too fun not to play Wario with, plus I know the MU much better against him with Wario, I feel it's practically even. IC's is iffy, I haven't gotten enough MU experience with them, but I feel Pit VS IC's is actually easier than Wario VS IC's. (I nearly three-stocked a good IC's at the last tournament in secondaries crews, I had one stock and he had 3 for the match (he double mains as ICs and Falco I guess or something))

Pit can do okay against d3 if he plays like he does against IC's I think.
Pit and Olimar is... I dont know? Your guys' opinion?
Snake... I feel like Pit would do much better against snake if he air-camped more than he ledge-camped for safety, and stayed in his face once he got a hit in (that's how I beat him with Wario)...
Finally Falco I'm not sure. Your opinion.

 

[Ayoub]

Olimar shuts Pit down.
Falco isn't that hard.
» Snake too.

 

[link2702]

against snake...


just camp your *** off with arrows

one of snakes biggest and strongest moves....is his grenade game, shut that down, and it makes things pretty tough for the snake, and thankfully, thats just what pits arrows do, they completly ruiin snakes camping game with his nades, and it forces him to approach, you still do have to be careful, cuz he still has many other tricks up his sleeve that can really hurt ya, and like always, his tilts outrange and priortize pits moves, but just by the simple fact that you can destroy his nade game with your arrows, means that you've already put a huge hurt on snakes game. just be careful when he's near you, and try to punish his approaches

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

IMO, from worst to okay... FOR ME.

D3, Olimar, Camping Snake, and sometimes on the rare occasion Falco is annoying.

I handle Marths perfectly fine right now and know what to do, Peach is not a bother, and MK is too fun not to play Wario with, plus I know the MU much better against him with Wario, I feel it's practically even. IC's is iffy, I haven't gotten enough MU experience with them, but I feel Pit VS IC's is actually easier than Wario VS IC's. (I nearly three-stocked a good IC's at the last tournament in secondaries crews, I had one stock and he had 3 for the match (he double mains as ICs and Falco I guess or something))

Pit can do okay against d3 if he plays like he does against IC's I think.
Pit and Olimar is... I dont know? Your guys' opinion?
Snake... I feel like Pit would do much better against snake if he air-camped more than he ledge-camped for safety, and stayed in his face once he got a hit in (that's how I beat him with Wario)...
Finally Falco I'm not sure. Your opinion.

Olimar isn't that bad, now that I got help from the incredible Fino Olimar definitely doesn't shut Pit down. These are the tips he gave me:

1) Avoid Purples at all cost, and anilhilate them whenever possible. Note: Purples kill Pit @ 80%.
2) Don't chase Olimar offstage unless he is recovering from above. If he recovers from below, ledgehog.
3) Olimar has bad priority, and has no super armor on his grabs. They tend to pivot grab when Pit recovers from the air, so watch for that.
4) Abuse fast moves, like Pit's jab infinite whenever close instead of retreating. Olimar's grab comes out on frame 11 and Pit's jab comes out on frame 5...do the math.

 

[Damien = God]

Was just reading the Smash wiki. There are two reasons they give for him not being in the high tier. Gimp-able recovery, which I think is utter crap. A problem barely ever arises for me. I am very cautious with my WoI and rarely use them. And trouble KOing? Pfft. Naw. Maybe not as easy as, like, Ganon, but it's not horrible.

Gay. Haha.

 

[Don Guero]

most characters dont have the option to chase pit offstage cuz of his glide attack. its usually best to just let him land

 

[Damien = God]

Ooh. I've been taught not to abuse gliding. My friend, b-air's me so much.

 

[Don Guero]

lol some characters can punish the glide like marth or mk. but thats why you cancle it at a safe distance. who does your friend use?

 

[Damien = God]

Wolf. And he's **** good. Haha.

 

[Don Guero]

hmm well wolf cant chase offstage that much unless he kows what hes doing. but even then his moves are limited by wolfs recovery. im ot sure if glide attack beats wolfs Bair but im pretty sure that if its released at the right time, the moves should at least clash. but its probably best to go for the ledge or fly under the stage

 

[Krystedez]

to be honest. Glide like an MK and you'll be fine. (as in run up in the air like a *****, dont use it as aggressively..)

 

[dualseeker]

With Pit Vs. Wolf, you have to be a little carefull. I think Wolf's Bair will beat Pit's Glide Attack, though.

I think Pit's biggest advantage in that MU, though, is his ability to gimp Wolf's Up B. If Wolf is recovering horizontally, a well timed Mirror Shield will gimp his recovery no problem. If he's recovering from below, just Fast Fall and use Bair while he's in the start up lag of his recovery. All you have to really watch out for, is Wolf's ability to combo his Bair, and his lazers. Also, watch out for spacing, if Wolf spaces really well, he can seriously hurt Pit. For example, Wolf's Fsmash takes full effect just outside of Pits attack range, so watch out for that as well.

 

[Nitrix]

I haven't tested but if Pit's glide attack is spaced properly it should beat Wolf's Bair due to the range. His glide attack just eats up so many aerials and smashes due to the range.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQroxRnrtl8

2:11

 

[Apollo$]

Was just reading the Smash wiki. There are two reasons they give for him not being in the high tier. Gimp-able recovery, which I think is utter crap. A problem barely ever arises for me. I am very cautious with my WoI and rarely use them. And trouble KOing? Pfft. Naw. Maybe not as easy as, like, Ganon, but it's not horrible.

Gay. Haha.

Meta kills his recovery is all

 

[dualseeker]

Thanks Nitrix. It's true that Pit has range, but due to how fast Wolf's Bair comes out, it might outprioritize Pit's Glide Attack. But, I haven't tested this either, so I can't say for sure .

@FURnace: It's true. MK's range just gimps Pit's recovery so easily.

 

[Damien = God]

Meta kills his recovery is all

Haha. Lame! Without the MK matchup, a character is doomed, huh?

And I think it's hilarious we're discussing the Wolf matchup. His Fsmash is a great punisher, but easily punished as well. He'll love to get kills with his Dsmash if you let him. I find he only hits me with it when I make the mistake of feinting (rolling) into Wolf. His Dsmash is better than ours, not a good idea to test this one out. I have yet to master gimping with the Mirror Shield, something I really gotta get down; it'd help here (among countless characters it'd help against).

 

[Don Guero]

lol i went to a tournament yesterday and got my own fan section because i mained pit and could loop arrows like a beast XD

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Thanks Nitrix. It's true that Pit has range, but due to how fast Wolf's Bair comes out, it might outprioritize Pit's Glide Attack. But, I haven't tested this either, so I can't say for sure .

@FURnace: It's true. MK's range just gimps Pit's recovery so easily.

Lol, there is no way that Wolf's Bair can outprioritize glide attack. Pit's glide-attack has transcendant priority which means that it goes through anything. It's like MK's glide-attack. Wolf's bair may beat it out before Pit's glide-attack comes out though, since that foot of doom is so fast

 

[Oro?!]

Always the Pit mains.

 

[Latias]

since us pits suck, earth is going to apex as pit :d

 

[CYVE]

since us pits suck, earth is going to apex as pit :d

A wild Latias appeared!

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

since us pits suck, earth is going to apex as pit :d

Yeah I can't wait to see how Earth does, and I really want to go!

 

[Damix91]

This is my two cents on Pit. I'm inexperienced but hey i thought i could provide some insight into why Pit is fairly poorly repped and my impressions as a new pit main and someone new to the brawl competitive scene (not to following it but to participating in it.

First of all while I've already fallen in love with Pit. I don't think (at least with the tools we have now) he's top five although i think he could easily be around 9th or 10th. ( I think S tier should be expanded to include snake, diddy and falco who are all broken) and pit would end mid-low A tier. He simply doesn't excel in a category the way the other top tiers seem to in my opinion. Breaking brawl down into a game where approaching safely is key. Pit doesn't stand up the way the other high tiers do. Mk's lag less moves and nado. Snakes projectile game and huge hitboxes. Diddy's bananas tricks and Falco's keep away game (lasers and phantasm) + chaingrab. Pit doesn't have the same kind of ease of use where you can just laugh as the whole cast struggles against your unique gimmick. Plus i think it makes sense not to aim so high in moving Pit up the tier list. Besides when people think characters are being overrated they tend to want to underrate them and write them off. Saying Pit is S tier seems to invite people to laugh at you and have a go which none of us want.

Ok, on a less negative note I'll talk about my reasons and impressions on picking up Pit.

I think Pit is completely viable without the need for a secondary or any really hard counters, something even Falco cant attest to (pika-pika). One the first think i noticed as pit was his versatility in that i could see a use for his whole move-list which not many characters can claim. He seems to me (i haven't checked the frame data) to have fairly decent base attributes. Decent walking and running speed; not too floaty or fast falling; and multiple jumps and a glide attack to aid his aerial game.

The main problem i had with Pit was his range. His Swords just don't seem to go anywhere and i feel like the whole cast out-ranges my moves. Leading on from this why an inability to kill easily. He seems to me to have limited kill options. Unlike other top tiers who can either pressurize you into an opening with with their rapid offense (Mk, Marth) or can combo into their kill moves (Falco, Diddy). I think Pit arrows are more useful than some would make out. There's a pressure i kind of feel not to spam arrows. People like complaining about arrow spam but not things like marth's fair spam (probably cos its not a projectile) or falco laser spam (cos short hopping and naming it into an AT makes it legit) but in reality relentless arrow assault i think has its uses. No point making it easy for opponent to approach if your already in a favorable position on the stage.

I think one area from what I've seen Pit can grow in is his use of WoI. It has many useful aspects the wind push back for spacing and canceling of projectiles (and moves??) and unparalleled aerial movement as well as aerial speed. If either something new can be found out in this area or Pits just become experts with this i think Pit could grow some.

Pit noobish play style at low level play (i.e spam arrows) i think deters players away from him. His lack of a fanbase (Kid Icarus Series) and the fact that like Fox results cannot be gotten with him straight away; (Fox however has a loyal fanbase from Melee).

Realistically if Pit's reputation is to be improved, he has to place at tourneys because that is what people moan about. The Tier List it seems to me is a competition rather than anything else. If Snake was immensely unpopular and not being repped he would move considerably down the tier list despite his obvious potential.

What the pit boards can do to help out is have a clean matchup thread with and up-to-date chart and links to each discussion. They're a great resource to players like me just starting out and probably help pit recruitment. What would be useful in them would be a focus on what to do against the characters rather than just loads of posts on what people think the numbers should be. Detailed Summaries should be included at the end of discussion and if possible videos should be found demonstrating Pits who know the matchup very well and attached.

Another helpful thing would be trying to get a Pit Main into the BBR. It seems only Ravyn's defending Pit in there if the BBR character discussion of Pit is anything to go by and he doesn't even main Pit anymore.

Ok this has been a long message but i thought i would do my bit to contribute.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

This is my two cents on Pit. I'm inexperienced but hey i thought i could provide some insight into why Pit is fairly poorly repped and my impressions as a new pit main and someone new to the brawl competitive scene (not to following it but to participating in it.

First of all while I've already fallen in love with Pit. I don't think (at least with the tools we have now) he's top five although i think he could easily be around 9th or 10th. ( I think S tier should be expanded to include snake, diddy and falco who are all broken) and pit would end mid-low A tier. He simply doesn't excel in a category the way the other top tiers seem to in my opinion. Breaking brawl down into a game where approaching safely is key. Pit doesn't stand up the way the other high tiers do. Mk's lag less moves and nado. Snakes projectile game and huge hitboxes. Diddy's bananas tricks and Falco's keep away game (lasers and phantasm) + chaingrab. Pit doesn't have the same kind of ease of use where you can just laugh as the whole cast struggles against your unique gimmick. Plus i think it makes sense not to aim so high in moving Pit up the tier list. Besides when people think characters are being overrated they tend to want to underrate them and write them off. Saying Pit is S tier seems to invite people to laugh at you and have a go which none of us want.

Ok, on a less negative note I'll talk about my reasons and impressions on picking up Pit.

I think Pit is completely viable without the need for a secondary or any really hard counters, something even Falco cant attest to (pika-pika). One the first think i noticed as pit was his versatility in that i could see a use for his whole move-list which not many characters can claim. He seems to me (i haven't checked the frame data) to have fairly decent base attributes. Decent walking and running speed; not too floaty or fast falling; and multiple jumps and a glide attack to aid his aerial game.

The main problem i had with Pit was his range. His Swords just don't seem to go anywhere and i feel like the whole cast out-ranges my moves. Leading on from this why an inability to kill easily. He seems to me to have limited kill options. Unlike other top tiers who can either pressurize you into an opening with with their rapid offense (Mk, Marth) or can combo into their kill moves (Falco, Diddy). I think Pit arrows are more useful than some would make out. There's a pressure i kind of feel not to spam arrows. People like complaining about arrow spam but not things like marth's fair spam (probably cos its not a projectile) or falco laser spam (cos short hopping and naming it into an AT makes it legit) but in reality relentless arrow assault i think has its uses. No point making it easy for opponent to approach if your already in a favorable position on the stage.

I think one area from what I've seen Pit can grow in is his use of WoI. It has many useful aspects the wind push back for spacing and canceling of projectiles (and moves??) and unparalleled aerial movement as well as aerial speed. If either something new can be found out in this area or Pits just become experts with this i think Pit could grow some.

Pit noobish play style at low level play (i.e spam arrows) i think deters players away from him. His lack of a fanbase (Kid Icarus Series) and the fact that like Fox results cannot be gotten with him straight away; (Fox however has a loyal fanbase from Melee).

Realistically if Pit's reputation is to be improved, he has to place at tourneys because that is what people moan about. The Tier List it seems to me is a competition rather than anything else. If Snake was immensely unpopular and not being repped he would move considerably down the tier list despite his obvious potential.

What the pit boards can do to help out is have a clean matchup thread with and up-to-date chart and links to each discussion. They're a great resource to players like me just starting out and probably help pit recruitment. What would be useful in them would be a focus on what to do against the characters rather than just loads of posts on what people think the numbers should be. Detailed Summaries should be included at the end of discussion and if possible videos should be found demonstrating Pits who know the matchup very well and attached.

Another helpful thing would be trying to get a Pit Main into the BBR. It seems only Ravyn's defending Pit in there if the BBR character discussion of Pit is anything to go by and he doesn't even main Pit anymore.

Ok this has been a long message but i thought i would do my bit to contribute.

Good post. Yeah my idea have changed since I made the OP. I don't think Pit is top 5 anymore. I strongly feel that he is a top 10 character like you said, but not top 5. I guess I was very biased back then, but I am accepting my characters weaknesses.

You are right about Pit player's usage of arrows. I made a post about that in the social thread, and I think it's our mindsets that haven't allowed us to evolve Pit's game. We should arrow spam...smartly. His spam can be very annoying, and I don't think we use it to the fullest.

BBR

Tbh, there aren't really any qualified Pit mainers to be there save for Esca or someone like Vex. I think I could qualify eventually, but not at the moment because I haven't been to enough tournaments nor helped enough people yet.