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Impact of 1.1 Knockback

Thinkaman

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Thinkaman
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It would be nice if we got some sort of lead as to what we should research. I don't like fumbling around without a central list to check.

It would be even better if you checked the Standard Terms thread.
 

EverAlert

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Hey man, all I know is that marth's spike is the **** with 1.1 knockback, it topples standing *****es at 0 now and sets up jab reset sexiness.
 

T-block

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Obvious things to test would be chain grabs, locks and infinites.

I think it would also be good to get an idea of how much it affects KO percents. I can't really think of an objective value to look for in that regard, since there are so many variables, but getting as much data as possible for that would be useful.
 

rPSIvysaur

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I'm so glad you ran this with me in the project database thread. We could have found a more appropriate way to deal with this. Like, we could totally have other stuff to deal with this. I'll let us talk about it in that thread until we see what we should do.
 

Luxor

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I really don't get what there is to test, apart from infinites/CGs/locks and the like. It'd be nice to know how this affects KO percents, but seeing as we don't even have KO %'s for 1.0, I think the best thing to do would be to see if 1.1 simply makes you die 10% earlier (real % out of a hundred, not in-game damage %).
 

rPSIvysaur

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Kill percents don't really matter. I want to see the advantage that some moves get. (like some people stated that ike's jab>utilt is legit. =/
 

A2ZOMG

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Kill percents don't really matter. I want to see the advantage that some moves get. (like some people stated that ike's jab>utilt is legit. =/
To make a long story short, combos that work at low percents are nerfed. Combos that start working at lower-mid percents are buffed. Most Jabs are worse for linking into their final hit, but better for mixups and alternative links. Moves that already KO early don't get as noticeable effects as moves that "kinda" are able to KO.

Generally speaking I would assume 1.1 benefits strong versatile spacing games that have moves that "kinda" were able to KO. High weight also matters much less in 1.1, since the KO percents that are affected the most are "high" KO percents.

I would easily consider someone like Jiggs better than Wario in 1.1 for those reasons. She has a better strict spacing game than him, her combos benefit a lot more than his from 1.1 mechanics (Wario's combos already work at 0% in 1.0, so they only become harder to do, while Jiggs needed to rack percent for her B-air to combo), and her F-air was a good offstage KO move in 1.0, probably a godly KO move in 1.1. She doesn't really care about getting KOed earlier, since she already dies at low percents anyway, and her survival is really just dependent on how well her player spaces and camps.

Renegade also told me that Mario was ridiculous in 1.1 mechanics, due to his U-air juggles becoming a lot more lethal. And I can definitely see why, since Mario's U-air juggles do not truly hitstun link into each other at low percents.
 

Pierce7d

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I don't think it would be bad to give the Smash Lab a subforum to deal with a game under entirely different mechanics, if the majority of us are willing to explore it.

Alternatively, we can just send in a request for a 1.1 tag to go with our titles.
 
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At first I disregarded 1.1 as one of those ideas that are just constantly thrown around, thinking it wouldn't get anywhere. I was skeptical. But after testing it a bit when I saw it was gaining popularity, I got interested in it too. It doesn't alter the game in linear ways, and makes it more entertaining to play imo. And again, the fact that it doesn't alter the game in standard, expectable ways makes it more intriguing. I'd definitely be up for some sort of large undertaking on the project. Considering it is, in essence, a game on its own, a sub-forum would be a good idea. Though the tags seem sort of unnecessary.
 

thexsunrosered

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I agree, I think a subforum would be suitable seeing as it would have just as many aspects to look in to. I also wouldn't want the regular one to be too cluttered
 
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