I'm glad skeik got "nerfed"

[Zankoku]

It would go somewhere if you actually gave good support to your points, or used points that made sense. As it is, all you did was highlight stereotypical advantages of Sheik that gave her the top tier position for the majority of Melee's lifespan and disregard other clear advantages of high/top-tier characters as "requiring more skill," though the exact achievement that would require such skill was never made clear.

In summary:
You said Sheik was gay. Which is a common thing to say. You said that she was extremely cheap and could be played by anyone. Which is not disputed. Then you claimed that every character took more skill to play with than Sheik.

I'm not exactly clear on that point, and I made an assumption that you were actually talking about the competitive level of play; it's becoming clear that it's more like you're talking about what you've heard from word-of-mouth. The high tier (Sheik, Marth, and Peach) all require little skill to pick up and start winning games against equally-skilled and even higher-skilled players, for a period of time. And I think that's the level you're talking about.

To which I still say that it doesn't take any more skill to dash attack > fair than it does to stand there and let Peach's priority win with dsmash (you don't need to be a fast-faller. Just approach with poor spacing and you're in trouble) or become untouchable with "well-placed fsmashes" that outrange Sheik in almost every way yet somehow make Marth take more skill to play. I don't know why you don't see it that way, unless you've had really bad experiences with Sheik or something.

So tell me, clearly, what makes Sheik take so little skill, and what does Sheik accomplish with such a low level of skill? Maybe then we'd actually get somewhere.

 

[kirbysprite]

Wow this topic got out of hand...

Anyway, I still wish Sheik had that Fair...

Man I play as Sheik and Peach and I did not know that Peach was a cheap character.

 

[Zankoku]

Can't spell cheap without Peach...

But at the high levels, that "cheapness" really doesn't matter because the easy part of playing those characters alone won't win you games, so it's all fine anyway.

Oh, and you can't have pictures in your signature until you reach a certain number of posts. I don't remember the exact number, but that's how it works.

 

[NiRV7iQ]

The sheik boards are all about love.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

If you're glad shiek got nerfed, why are you here? Just leave us all alone, thank you, and stop rubbing it in.

Sheik is not a "normal" ninja now.

She is a horrible low tier ninja.

 

[behemoth]

If you're glad shiek got nerfed, why are you here? Just leave us all alone, thank you, and stop rubbing it in.

Sheik is not a "normal" ninja now.

She is a horrible low tier ninja.

Ehhh! Wrong answer. How much have you played her? That's why I made this thread.... just didn't know it was going to turn into a flame war.

She is still a badass, still high tier.

Chin up, dude, our favorite ninja will still be kicking *** in tournaments 3 or 4 years from now. She's just going to play somewhat differently.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Ehhh! Wrong answer. How much have you played her? That's why I made this thread.... just didn't know it was going to turn into a flame war.

She is still a badass, still high tier.

Chin up, dude, our favorite ninja will still be kicking *** in tournaments 3 or 4 years from now. She's just going to play somewhat differently.

High tier? Rofl. Check out the shiek changes list, and look at all those nerfs.

 

[behemoth]

Just trying to stay positive.

So you really are of the opinion that even when people modify their playstyle and pull all the potential outta Sheik, she'll still be mid-low tier?

I don't think so, but then I haven't spent every waking day with Brawl, so I'm not overly sure.

Your thoughts?

 

[Zankoku]

I think the biggest part of Sheik that got nerfed is the part that made all the noobs pick her up in Melee. I mean, she can't dthrow/dash attack to aerial any more, and her fair no longer kills, therefore she's SOOO BAAADDD! rofl

All I know is, it didn't feel too unnatural playing her in Brawl, and I've yet to lose a game that wasn't due to my own stupidity. Not so with Peach or ZSS. >_> Hell, I learned a bit of stuff that can be done just watching KDJ play Sheik (link http://youtube.com/watch?v=4eC4GV9kztY ) in Brawl. Sheik's learning curve is stepped up a bit, but she's still got some really stupid **** going for her (ftilt combos into ftilt? wtf).

 

[behemoth]

I think the biggest part of Sheik that got nerfed is the part that made all the noobs pick her up in Melee. I mean, she can't dthrow/dash attack to aerial any more, and her fair no longer kills, therefore she's SOOO BAAADDD! rofl

All I know is, it didn't feel too unnatural playing her in Brawl, and I've yet to lose a game that wasn't due to my own stupidity. Not so with Peach or ZSS. >_> Hell, I learned a bit of stuff that can be done just watching KDJ play Sheik (link http://youtube.com/watch?v=4eC4GV9kztY ) in Brawl. Sheik's learning curve is stepped up a bit, but she's still got some really stupid **** going for her (ftilt combos into ftilt? wtf).

Well Ankoku, you have just summed up the entire point I was trying to make in my first post, and did it in a way unlikely to start a flame war.

So.

From now on, when I want to make a thread, I will PM you about it, and you can make it, thereby avoiding the ring of fire.

But really, this is what it boils down to: she's got a steeper learning curve.

Basically, ask yourself this question: Does she have enough of a speed/combo advantage that I can consistently get my opponent up to KO percentages before they can KO me first?

That's the entire issue. I for one answer yes. Of course, I could be suffering from Hubris or a bump on the head, but I still think the potential is there.

 

[Circus]

I like how the first couple people in this thread blew up all over the topic creator for no reason. I guess they saw the title of the thread, automically assumed he was a Sheik hater, and went for the kill. How ninja-like is that?

The fact of the matter is, Sheik's nerfs are a good thing for everyone. Sheik haters can stop hating, Sheik fans no longer have to put up with the haters, and we all get a slightly more balanced game. Everybody wins.

 

[Cobra]

Sheik is a ninja. In melee, she was a broken ninja. Now, she's just a ninja. I, for one, am glad for the changes. I'm sick of seeing everyone and their brother using sheik because of her "broken" nature.

Her new playstyle relies far more on her unique, quick movements and viperlike strikes.

Here's to all of you who will still travel the path of the ninja.

May all your bairs be KO's, and your enemies melt away before you, shadow warriors.

I concur whole-heartedly. I played her becasue she was a Ninja then, and I play her becasue she is a ninja now. Only now, when I win, it's not "SCREW YOUR CHEAP CHARACTER!".

I've been waiting years for that.

 

[Cobra]

If you're glad shiek got nerfed, why are you here? Just leave us all alone, thank you, and stop rubbing it in.

Sheik is not a "normal" ninja now.

She is a horrible low tier ninja.

I think you're missing the point here, allow me to educate you.

The words 'horrible' and 'ninja' cannot be placed together in the same sentence, unless of course the sentence is something like "It's a horrible shame that guy got destroyed by a ninja", or perhaps, "Wow...that ninja just killed that guy in the most horrible way I can imagine." ...Ooo, or even "A Ninja's purpose is to dutifully and consistently hand out horrible horrible death. All those dispatched in such a horrible way should consider themselves honored to have seen a ninja for a split second or be killed by them".

See? ...it just doesn't work how you're using it. the point of this thread is Ninja. Sheik is a Ninja, and therefore is, by default, AWESOME and must be played. Someone has clearly mislead you from the Path of the Shadow.

 

[Cobra]

You are as much of a tool as the people you described in your first paragraph, sorry.

...and you're as much of a tool as your comment makes you look. It saddens me that you have the title 'Smash Lord' under your name. Ability to play or otherwise, to me, that just says that you've spent most of your posts shutting people down and flaming them for no real reason.

Kudos!

 

[Cobra]

It would go somewhere if you actually gave good support to your points, or used points that made sense. As it is, all you did was highlight stereotypical advantages of Sheik that gave her the top tier position for the majority of Melee's lifespan and disregard other clear advantages of high/top-tier characters as "requiring more skill," though the exact achievement that would require such skill was never made clear.

In summary:
You said Sheik was gay. Which is a common thing to say. You said that she was extremely cheap and could be played by anyone. Which is not disputed. Then you claimed that every character took more skill to play with than Sheik.

I'm not exactly clear on that point, and I made an assumption that you were actually talking about the competitive level of play; it's becoming clear that it's more like you're talking about what you've heard from word-of-mouth. The high tier (Sheik, Marth, and Peach) all require little skill to pick up and start winning games against equally-skilled and even higher-skilled players, for a period of time. And I think that's the level you're talking about.

To which I still say that it doesn't take any more skill to dash attack > fair than it does to stand there and let Peach's priority win with dsmash (you don't need to be a fast-faller. Just approach with poor spacing and you're in trouble) or become untouchable with "well-placed fsmashes" that outrange Sheik in almost every way yet somehow make Marth take more skill to play. I don't know why you don't see it that way, unless you've had really bad experiences with Sheik or something.

So tell me, clearly, what makes Sheik take so little skill, and what does Sheik accomplish with such a low level of skill? Maybe then we'd actually get somewhere.

...if it's any consolation Ankoku, I agree with you. Your arguments make way more sense because they are actually backed up with fact.

The simple fact remains that no matter how n00by or broken a character may or may not be, in the hands f a n00b, they will always be a n00b. In the hands of a Pro, they will be far better. I can clearly remember going to my first tournament and playing against Azen. I had been playing for 2 years and had just started to get into competitive play, and the kid schooled me as Pichu.

PICHU! ...now not to say that proves the point that Pichu could be tournament viable as a top tier, but it does go to show that no matter how easy a character is to learn, despite their tiers...the real defined winner of a tournament will be the ones with the most skill period, otherwise, they wouldn't be able to do it consistently with multiple characters.

(Case and Point, Captain Jack's Dr.Mario vs Azen's Sheik.)

 

[Greenpoe]

It looks bad when you look at her nerfs, but it isn't really...I mean, she kept her speed (even though Brawl is slower!), lost most of her KO power (we have Zelda for that), still has great combo-ability and they buffed her f tilt. Since she's so different from Melee, sure, it may take a while before we figure good ways to transform to Zelda, or combos to replace the famous f tilt to fair, but she's still very fast.

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik has the fourth fastest running speed in the game, below Fox, Captain Falcon, and Sonic, and tied with Zero-Suit Samus.

So yeah, her speed more or less stayed the same.

 

[ZeldaSheik]

well. I'm kinda glad because I found that when I played Sheik in Melee, She seemed like she was missing oomph power.

 

[BentoBox]

...and you're as much of a tool as your comment makes you look. It saddens me that you have the title 'Smash Lord' under your name. Ability to play or otherwise, to me, that just says that you've spent most of your posts shutting people down and flaming them for no real reason.

Kudos!

You do not seem to comprehend the definition of tool. And ranks are meaningless, grow up. Kudos on the quad post! (<meaningless nitpicking)

 

[Cobra]

You do not seem to comprehend the definition of tool. And ranks are meaningless, grow up. Kudos on the quad post! (<meaningless nitpicking)

I was merely using it as an example of how many posts you've made, but the word tool is derogatory just as much as n00b or loser or blah blah. I'm just saying that a little courtesy goes a long way.

If however you were simply commenting on his last section about saying the Shadow Warrior thing, I would withdraw my comment and apologize. But to me it seemed like you were flaming him without cause. All he was saying was that he was tired of people mocking him for playing a "cheap" character when his intent was solely to play a ninja. Now we all know that he could have played BETTER people and avoided the comments, but that's not always an option for people who possibly don't have a car, or know people who actually play at a higher level, or have access/time to meet up with them and play even if they DO know them.

...He was just saying that he was happy she got nerfed and looks forward to playing her in the future. then in the first few posts, he got flamed. Seemed unfair to me.

(Oh and I can't figure out how to multi-post properly, so yeah the quad post was my option. Sorry about that, I'm still definitely a n00b on the forums in terms of post functionality.)

 

[BentoBox]

Now, she's just a ninja. I, for one, am glad for the changes. I'm sick of seeing everyone and their brother using sheik because of her "broken" nature.

You have to realise that not everybody plays this game with a cosplaying mindset. Some people do play to win and these people will do whatever it takes to get there. To believe that you're more deserving to play a character because you enjoy being a ninja in your free time is a ridiculous statement. I took that as an attack against said tier-whores. But regardless of the character's placement in the tier list, ironically, there will always be people maining said chars because of their position. People are hard-pressed to call tourney active players tier whores (no items, fox only, final destination!) while they force themselves not to tackle said characters just to stand out, to be original, or because they foolishly believe that they could reach gimpy status by maining a low tier... which is a sheepy in itself. Fact is, if you play competitively, you shouldn't care about what others do, play for yourself. If you don't play competitively, stop caring about those that do. It's just as annoying as the bunch of casuals that have ''top tier'' on the tip of their tongues without even fully comprehending its implications.

 

[Cobra]

You have to realise that not everybody plays this game with a cosplaying mindset. Some people do play to win and these people will do whatever it takes to get there. To believe that you're more deserving to play a character because you enjoy being a ninja in your free time is a ridiculous statement. I took that as an attack against said tier-whores.

Fair enough Bento, I can see your point, but still you can tell that he didn't mean it in that way. He's clearly not talking about tournament-level play here though. He's saying that he's glad he can finally play Sheik, not catch crap for it, and be more unique. Sheik used to be Top-tier, which emans A LTO of people played her to win. He was just glad that in Brawl he wont have to deal with the situation at all anymore since Sheik got nerfed.

If he were a competitive, tournament-style player, I would agree with you 100%, but I'm about 90% sure he's not, or he's just tired of playing with his favorite character and then having his wins blamed on nothing but the fact that the character is broken.

 

[Yeroc]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4eC4GV9kztY

This makes me want to play Sheik more, lol.

 

[Roscoewolf]

I main shiek, and have since i first started playing melee, before people saw her as a "broken" or high tier character, and I personally hate when people assume i only use shiek because shes a top tier character.
Anyway, its kinda cool for me to try out using her a little different in brawl. Because she has gotten a little worse in some aspects doesnt mean that shes really going to be that bad overall, they obviously had the intentions of balancing a wider range of characters, anyway im stickin with her.

 

[Kricu]

ok i'm not going to lie: I have no idea how sheik will play in brawl. I haven't realy looked into it much because I don't really like spoilers and any video watched is a risk. Regardless of that I just need to throw my idea about sheik from melee into this. Since i main as sheik i obviously like her tactics. Hit and run is a vital part of my strategy and sheik fit it very well. I'm not really sure what people mean by "broken" but if it is what I'm assuming it is then I would like to disagree. all in all as long as sheik doesnt change too much then i'll be happy.

 

[Crizthakidd]

i wish she didint get nerfed. now she wont be a challenge .... xD it will take a lot of skill jsut like the rest of us to be great at the char we play

 

[Admiral Pit]

Sheik had too much Knockback power in melee, which humiliated my Bowser.
She is still fast and is capable of doing many combos, which make up for her "nerfed" attacks.
Maybe this will increase the amount of Zelda players we will see in battle.
Back to topic, I'm sure a pro sheik in melee can still use the "Nerfed sheik" to do more combos, though i wished she got a bit stronger than she is now.

 

[behemoth]

Okay, I play in tourneys myself, and was not complaining about tourney-goers or "tier-whores".

And ... I have no intention of cosplaying, though whoever does, more power to you.

Honestly, I was just trying to find a way to say she's still a badass and should still be played.

Just trying to stay positive.

Sorry if it came off the wrong way.

 

[BentoBox]

You can have my babies, I dumped hiroshi :[

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik is awesome, because all of her costume colors win.

That's all that matters.

 

[Megaman X]

As much as I hate Sheik, I can't say she's COMPLETELY broken... I mean come on.. ... uhh .... there's ... no ... .... no that's god too ... ..... OH YEAH her dair isn't a god move. I mean, it actually ranks somewhere around the Dairs of all the other characters! THERE! Sheik is not a complete whorebag.

... oh yeah, Ankoku, you play IaMP by any chance?

 

[Zankoku]

A little bit. Marisa J-B Loops ftw. : P

 

[OrlanduEX]

I personally hate when people assume i only use shiek because shes a top tier character

Why do you care?

You do realize that only scrubs whine about these things, right? What's wrong with using a top tier character if you want to win?

 

[KingJD18]

Sheik was my main in melee when brawl comes out I hope they ain't changes em dat bad

 

[Sheik_Pwns]

true true sheik _pwns so says my name

 

[goodkid]

In my eyes, Sheik is still pretty good. Her tilts combo into more tilts, jabs, and f-airs, shes pretty fast, and now has a tether recovery. Her aerials are a little nerfed, but still good. They just have sweetspots to them.

 

[RWB]

Sheik has the fourth fastest running speed in the game, below Fox, Captain Falcon, and Sonic, and tied with Zero-Suit Samus.

You do know that ZSS is a bit faster than Sheik, right? M2King ran a frame by frame comparison, and while the difference is laughably small, ZSS is the faster runner.

 

[Clink]

HAH! I love how people are talkin' all about Sheik in Brawl and how she'd bad compared to Melee. Well, think about it really hard Sheik haters, fans, angry fans or whatever you call yourself. Sheik is not really "nerfed" at all. With the mechanics in Brawl, it makes up for some changed in the characters. Alot of people, since the beginning of Smash, have always whined about the new versions of the games release. People even whined about Melee being a downgrade. But over time there were new techs found and the game was made a lot faster and spread out on something completely new.

I find Sheik to be great. Yes, her KO ratio is about the tonly thing that is really "Nerfed" I Her recovery isn't half bad either if you DI correctly and and control her. Just learn to coup the changes.

 

[Pokec]

i really like sheik in brawl..

shes more skill -requiring....making her more fun to use.

Her ftilt is stellar. Ive been racking up damage with it nonstop.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Wait...there are people here that are saying Sheik wasn't broken in Melee?

ROFL

The game developers were smart enough to realize their horrible mistake. Shes more balanced now, thank goodness.