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Ike's Matchups

King of Hoboz

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You'll just have to find the openings in particular players and characters to fix that. I have the same issue at times.

To beat Link's projectile for example, I've found the most optimal time to strike is when the rang passes you and is on the return.

For Dash Dancing, you can try to return the favor. Ike's Dash Dance + QD into WD is a pretty good thing to do. Depends on the player at that point.
 

Y-L

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You'll just have to find the openings in particular players and characters to fix that. I have the same issue at times.

To beat Link's projectile for example, I've found the most optimal time to strike is when the rang passes you and is on the return.

For Dash Dancing, you can try to return the favor. Ike's Dash Dance + QD into WD is a pretty good thing to do. Depends on the player at that point.
I do worse in that position against Link because the whole time I'm worrying about the boomerang coming back >_>

And about the dash dancing thing usually it's not an option because these characters have good projectiles so I have to go full aggro
 

Thane of Blue Flames

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You should check out Metroid and Hylian's matchs if you haven't already. Metroid really has the Link MU figured out.

QD Attack is vastly underrated v/s those who rely on their projectiles heavily. It's very quick, can exploit an opening quickly and lead to a nair juggle string if DI is followed correctly.

Besides that the best advice I have for you is to get in at the first chance and don't. Drop. Your combo. Link in particular, but most zoning characters that may be giving you issues (Ivy, Zelda, Tink) fall apart when you pressure them relentlessly and know your combo strings and edge-guards.
 

Y-L

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You should check out Metroid and Hylian's matchs if you haven't already. Metroid really has the Link MU figured out.

QD Attack is vastly underrated v/s those who rely on their projectiles heavily. It's very quick, can exploit an opening quickly and lead to a nair juggle string if DI is followed correctly.

Besides that the best advice I have for you is to get in at the first chance and don't. Drop. Your combo. Link in particular, but most zoning characters that may be giving you issues (Ivy, Zelda, Tink) fall apart when you pressure them relentlessly and know your combo strings and edge-guards.
It's just hard to combo characters like Zelda because you can't combo them due to how high they go after an attack/throw
 

Thane of Blue Flames

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It's just hard to combo characters like Zelda because you can't combo them due to how high they go after an attack/throw
Not ... actually true. Maybe it's because one of my two practice partners is a Zelda main but I have enough experience fighting Zelda. Yes, she is floaty and goes far when you hit her, but her options for escaping juggles are limited and her aerial mobility is bad. Ike has good follow-ups out of grab on Zelda (much like most floaties) and can juggle her well with QD, QD attack, Uair and Nair. Baiting out Nayru's and punishing is easy enough with tomahawks, QD -> WD back and other baits and if Zelda makes the mistake of throwing out a Din's in neutral, you can QD straight at her full speed blazing because Din's hitbox doesn't come out for a bit and she's vulnerable when she begins casting. It makes it easy to get a grab, QD attack, Nair or something else to start a string.

Not saying Zelda is free, or anything. The match-up feels pretty even because Nayru has deceptive range and Zelda can use two Din's to cover all your recovery options when you're offstage and just pop you into a kick :p But her being tall, light and floaty really works against her especially when dealing with Ike and his kit.

Y'all don't give QD and Ike's general mobility enough credit. Ike is the one character who can combo most characters with about equal difficulty just due to the variety of movement options and hitboxes he has.
 

RomanCenturionX

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Now my brother has been maining Pit for about a solid month now and I haven't seen any posts here on how to deal with Pit so I will put my two cents in. Pit is probably one of Ike's worse matchups in the game in my opinion because Pit has a number of things going for him in this matchup: Ike's linear recovery is easily intercepted and gimped by Pit, Ike is at the perfect weight for Pit to combo, and Pit has a projectile that is similar to Falco's lasers in the sense that they give off tremendous hit stun with the added bonus of being able to be manipulated by Pit. That being said I believe that this matchup is entirely winnable for Ike.

The key to this matchup is outsmarting the Pit player essentially, a Pit will want stage control and he wants to force you to approach him and make mistakes. What you want to do is to discourage him from projectile spamming and to respect your space. SHFFL'd Nair really comes in handy here as Nair will chew right through his arrow and can even be used as your approach in the same move if spaced correctly.

Spacing is extremely important in this matchup, the player that makes the most use of their space will win, luckily in terms of range Ragnell will outrange Pit's Bow a majority of the time but if you allow Pit to get inside of you that can mean your stock. For instance if you see Pit approaching your shield with a ftilt or if he gets greedy fsmash my advice to you would be to power shield or regular shield the hit then WD OoS for the punish, much like how you avoid the Marth and Roy fsmash. So be sure to practice WD'ing out of shield, it will make this matchup a heck of a lot easier. Be careful where you place you SFFL'd aerials as Pit can get off some mean punishes if they aren't spaced properly.

Also be sure to work on mixing up your recovery and your edge guards, Pit has a lot of options which he can edge guard Ike and a lot of options to recover back to the stage. Otherwise treat him as you would any other floaty, use utilt, dtilt, nair, uair, or QD attack to help set up your combos and be sure to keep Pit above you, Pit does most of his damage to Ike when he is grounded or offstage.

EDIT: Chain grab is not real and can be DI'ed out of
 
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metroid1117

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Now on a side note my brother seems convinced that Ike does have a dthrow chain grab on Pit which seems true for the most part but I only have my brothers word and DI to go on so if someone else wants to verify it can help us out in this matchup greatly. Also if any of you guys have extensive matchup experience against Pit please feel free to chip in with your knowledge.
The chain grab only works with incorrect DI; relative to Ike's position when the opponent is grabbed, the opponent can escape if they DI the DThrow behind him and down. Granted, though, at some percents it's possible to follow this up with QD -> JC grab, but it's not consistent. He can also elect to DI towards Ike's front, but that would get him BAir'd or FAir'd instead of grabbed.
 

Thane of Blue Flames

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The chain grab only works with incorrect DI; relative to Ike's position when the opponent is grabbed, the opponent can escape if they DI the DThrow behind him and down. Granted, though, at some percents it's possible to follow this up with QD -> JC grab, but it's not consistent. He can also elect to DI towards Ike's front, but that would get him BAir'd or FAir'd instead of grabbed.
Good showing at Wavedash Wednesday, btw. Though I'm surprised you had that much trouble with Laz.
 

metroid1117

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Good showing at Wavedash Wednesday, btw. Though I'm surprised you had that much trouble with Laz.
Thanks :). I was pretty confident about the Link match-up after playing Hylian for the past year, but Laz has improved soooooooooooooooo much since the last time I played him in December that it's ridiculous; it was really hard to get in and he capitalized even harder when he got an opening. I'm definitely looking forward to playing him again on Saturday.
 

Y-L

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Thanks :). I was pretty confident about the Link match-up after playing Hylian for the past year, but Laz has improved soooooooooooooooo much since the last time I played him in December that it's ridiculous; it was really hard to get in and he capitalized even harder when he got an opening. I'm definitely looking forward to playing him again on Saturday.
The Link MU is really hard but you got some nice stuff in there. Excellent performance!
 

metroid1117

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The Link MU is really hard but you got some nice stuff in there. Excellent performance!
I feel like I could've done better, but thanks :). I didn't even use Ike that much lol, but I do have one match from winners that will be uploaded with some other matches.
 

Y-L

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I feel like I could've done better, but thanks :). I didn't even use Ike that much lol, but I do have one match from winners that will be uploaded with some other matches.
The ledgehog dair on Links up b was nice, looks difficult!
 

Y-L

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How is the pikachu and ike matchup?
I feel it is pretty even, I've played some good Pikas. Ike has the advantage of the huge disjoint which beats Pika's lack of disjoint and can smack him out. Ike also has the ability to counter to Pika's end-combo up b, and can KO pika relatively quickly. Pika on the other hand has his projectile which is surprisingly effective for edgeguarding or setting up for edgeguards. His nair and bair are very effective for gimping. In addition Pika has a very good and unpredictable recovery so he doesn't get denied back on stage like a lot of other characters do against Ike, and a very good juggling game particularly with utilt, uair, and nair.
 

TylerX5

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Pikachu is actually one of the match ups I fear the most since I've never gone against one haha. Hell I haven't ever seen one
 
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MLGF

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Aggressive spacing, counter to punish PK thunder-2, outspeed Ness.
 
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Y-L

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Aggressive spacing, counter to punish PK thunder, outspeed Ness.
You want to go in hard on Ness so he can't use pk fire. Ness's recovery is very predictable so he should be dead as soon as he's off stage. Take advantage of your disjoint and you can outspace Ness easy.
 

Moy

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I believe SDI'ing up and away when you're in the top part of PK Fire and SDI'ing down and away when you're hit lower into it is the best way to escape if you're hit. Learning your opponent's patterns when he throws them really helps to bait him out and punish since it's got pretty considerable end lag.

For example, I never try to pit myself diagonally under my friend when I play him, since he DJC side-B's for days.
 

metroid1117

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Any thoughts for Ness? My current strategy is to change characters lol. I feel like Ike should win the matchup though.
I feel like this match-up is roughly even. FAir and PK Fire are the main tools that you'll have to be on the lookout for in neutral; FAir can be out-spaced by your own FAir or punished by QD -> JC grab or QD attack (this option is probably the easiest one) whereas you can jump over grounded PK Fire. Aerial PK Fire, however, is more annoying to deal with because you either have to try rushing under Ness as he uses it (QD or DACUS are good for this), get above and in front of Ness, or retreat. Getting above and in front of Ness is kinda risky if he still has his double-jump though, since he can double-jump FAir or, if he jumps off the ground with his back turned, he can mix it up with a DJC BAir.

Thankfully, Ness' floaty nature makes him susceptible to combos and, if you manage to clip him out of a DJC, he's left without a jump and is entirely vulnerable. UTilt is a good anti-air, since Ness isn't particularly fast in the air so you should have enough time to punish FAir or DAir on reaction if they try to come down from a full-hop instead of PK Fire'ing. If you manage to get over Ness while he's in the air, NAir is an excellent choice for punishing him since it pops him up and it's faster than FAir.

Edgeguarding Ness may be difficult if you're not familiar with his recovery, but as long as you intercept him early, then you should be fine. Ness can't do much to ward off edgeguarders except for double-jump FAir, so if you see him use his double-jump, you know that he must commit to up+B'ing if he's not close enough to airdodge onto the stage; as such, you can reliably edgeguard him with FAir simply by jumping out and waiting for PKT1 to start. The only time that it's difficult to edgeguard Ness is when he goes high and starts his up+B early, which might get you caught in an awkward position where you can't easily get back to the ground in time to punish him and you'll take too long to hit him before PKT2 starts (which has invincibility frames and hits like a truck, so it's unwise to challenge it). As such, you'll have to gauge how high Ness before determining whether you'll have enough time to jump out for an edgeguard. If he's extremely high, he might be able to ward you off with aerial PK Fire in addition to FAir, so you'll have to do your best to work around this.

With regards to Ness' combos, DThrow is his best combo throw by far - DI'ing up leads to a BAir or UAir while DI'ing away leads to a FAir, so it's typically best to DI away unless you can DI up onto a platform and potentially escape a follow-up. However, when you're getting hit, you usually want to try SDI'ing FAirs down and away so that he can't follow up with a DAir; otherwise, he can get the "Ken Combo" pretty easily. If you see Ness drifting on top of you, he's probably going to DAir - be patient and wait a bit before meteor canceling so that you don't jump during the fail window (the first 16 frames after hitlag), since Aether's height allows you to recover even when you're pretty far below the stage.

Lastly, if you need it, you can reference some of the friendlies I have with Atomsk's/Adam's Ness in this video.
 
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Commander

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Anyone know how to deal with Lucario? I don't know how to keep him out and combo him.
 

Moy

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Anyone know how to deal with Lucario? I don't know how to keep him out and combo him.
I believe Metroid told me SHFFL'd Fairs are good to stop dash attack, since that's one of the main ways he starts his magic series and combos from it. I meant to ask him how to edgeguard Lucario, but it escaped me at EXP10.
 

Y-L

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How do you fight Bowser? He's one of my hardest matchups to win
From my experience, respect him when he's on the ledge. That getup attack is hard to punish unless you stand right at the edge of it. You gotta go aggro so he doesn't have a chance to use armor moves. You gotta be conservative too though because if you make a mistake you can get punished hard.
 

King of Hoboz

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Grab him, grab him a lot. That's just a general thing Bowser loses to. Bowser can't pick his amazing defensive options if you pick grab frequently, then he has to go somewhat on offense, and you can react to that.
 

RomanCenturionX

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The chain grab only works with incorrect DI; relative to Ike's position when the opponent is grabbed, the opponent can escape if they DI the DThrow behind him and down. Granted, though, at some percents it's possible to follow this up with QD -> JC grab, but it's not consistent. He can also elect to DI towards Ike's front, but that would get him BAir'd or FAir'd instead of grabbed.
Thanks, I wasn't sure but after playing for a while I can see what you mean :grin:. Now I have recently been having trouble with the Ike/Shiek and the Ike/GnW matchups, I'm not sure how much practice you guys have had with those matchups but a couple of buddies of mine from college play these characters and I can't seem to understand what I am supposed to do in these matchups.
 

Quaza

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How do you fight Bowser? He's one of my hardest matchups to win
QD>JCGrab. Don't get crouch-cancelled. Also if you're saying to yourself, "screw this guy he only has like 2 posts." This is just a new account :p

Also there is a lot of discussion on this matchup earlier in the thread.
 

metroid1117

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Thanks, I wasn't sure but after playing for a while I can see what you mean :grin:. Now I have recently been having trouble with the Ike/Shiek and the Ike/GnW matchups, I'm not sure how much practice you guys have had with those matchups but a couple of buddies of mine from college play these characters and I can't seem to understand what I am supposed to do in these matchups.
Considering that I played against my roommate's G&W for about 9 months on a daily basis, I have a ton of experience on that match-up lol. What do you need help with? Videos of you playing would help too.
 

King of Hoboz

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General rule of thumb in the Shiek match-up, try to avoid Grab, Dash Attack, and Fair/Nair. If you can manage to consistently stay out of those options, you'll be fine.

Not true match-up advice, but start with practicing spacing those options out.
 
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RomanCenturionX

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Considering that I played against my roommate's G&W for about 9 months on a daily basis, I have a ton of experience on that match-up lol. What do you need help with? Videos of you playing would help too.
Unfortunately, the only video of me playing is around two months ago at my second tournament and it was my first time on stream where I got embarrassed by Inui, I was nervous that entire game and I had so many input flubs and just didn't play like myself during that set so it would be hard to take anything away from that so it wouldn't be a fair representation of my skill set now.

Well I am used to practicing against Qerb's GnW with my Marth in Melee, but GnW has changed in PM so some of his new stuff throws me off like his act out of up B, he can l-cancel all of his aerials, bucketing stopping momentum, etc. It feels like a completely new matchup to me and I am not quite sure what I need to do in it yet.
 

Quaza

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Sheik is tough for Ike because he gets punished very hard if his moves aren't spaced well. The way to beat she is simply to outpunish her. Get her off stage and punish her recovery.
 
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