Ike's Matchups

[NWRL]

How do you do the uthrow chaingrab on spacies? Most of the time I try it they just DI out of it

 

[metroid1117]

How do you do the uthrow chaingrab on spacies? Most of the time I try it they just DI out of it

At mid/high %s, you have to start using QD. For mid %s, where they're just too far to run up and grab, you'll have to QD -> RAR JC grab. At high %s, you don't have to RAR and can just QD -> JC grab. I'm not sure at what % it stops working, but once they get around 80% or so you can end it with QD -> RAR BAir or mess up their DI by extending the kill combo with NAir -> FAir/BAir. However, if you don't want to mess around with QD, you can also NAir like Marth would UAir/UTilt.

By the way, much like how it's most difficult for Marth to chaingrab spacies if they DI slightly behind him (just enough where he's forced to turn around), the same applies for Ike. If they're at the edge of the stage though, they might opt to DI towards the edge.

Random tidbit - while getting destroyed by M2K's Fox on FD (I'm pretty sure I got 3- or 4-stocked every time >.>), he told me that Vwins' Ike made him think the match-up was impossible for Fox. He recommended UThrowing until you can use NAir, then finishing the chaingrab with FAir.

 

[NWRL]

Thanks for the tips I'll have to try that out

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Thanks for the tips I'll have to try that out

You played M2K recently?

Yeah, the issue against a savvy Fox player would be a) Trying to get FD, or b) Getting an adequate replacement stage. Smashville (though I don't like it that much for Ike), GHZ, Yoshi Brawl on the long platform, some FoD arrangements and Pokemon Stadium center stage are probably all places Ike mains should get comfy CG'ing spacies. Especially Falco. F*** Falco.

 

[Commander]

Random tidbit - while getting destroyed by M2K's Fox on FD (I'm pretty sure I got 3- or 4-stocked every time >.>), he told me that Vwins' Ike made him think the match-up was impossible for Fox. He recommended UThrowing until you can use NAir, then finishing the chaingrab with FAir.

Is Vwins a real person or am I just slow to get the joke? If he is real are there any vids?

With Quickdraw grabs in the chaingrab does it go past 60% or is that still the farthest it goes?

Also I played M2K at my first tourney and got 4 stocked by his Fox multiple times and once got 3 stocked because I accidentally did a forward smash and it connected. Therefore I have always been as good as Metroid. Where is my PMBR position and recognition for being the best Ike?

 

[NWRL]

I want to say I saw him in a tournament but I can't remember

 

[metroid1117]

Is Vwins a real person or am I just slow to get the joke? If he is real are there any vids?

With Quickdraw grabs in the chaingrab does it go past 60% or is that still the farthest it goes?

I'm not sure if he has any videos, but M2K says that he's the best Ike he's played against but Vwins loses to Ally in Ike dittos. I'm also not sure about the chaingrab, it can probably work around 60% but I've never tested it in 3.0 (only 2.1).

 

[Commander]

I'm not sure if he has any videos, but M2K says that he's the best Ike he's played against but Vwins loses to Ally in Ike dittos. I'm also not sure about the chaingrab, it can probably work around 60% but I've never tested it in 3.0 (only 2.1).

I've gotten it to go till 60% with JC grabs alone(would probably be more consistent once I work QD in). I looked up Vwins on youtube and got nothing.

 

[King of Hoboz]

Yeah, I lost to M2K the exact same way at SHUFFLE V. And there are videos of VWin...moment.

Vwin vs M2K - M2K plays Mewtwo because he didn't do well (30/70) against Vwin in friendlies with Fox.
Vwin vs Holy

Wish there were more videos of Vwin, especially one of him winning. There are doubles video of Vwin.

PS: Can we please use our Ike Skype Group more

 

[metroid1117]

I rarely use Skype in the first place, so you typically won't find me anywhere >.>.

 

[Y-L]

I rarely use Skype in the first place, so you typically won't find me anywhere >.>.

Have you ever used Netplay?

 

[metroid1117]

Have you ever used Netplay?

My computer is too crappy to run Dolphin, let alone Netplay =/.

 

[Y-L]

My computer is too crappy to run Dolphin, let alone Netplay =/.

Bummer, I'd love to do some matches with you. Win some tournies and upgrade!

 

[Spralwers]

Is Vwins a real person or am I just slow to get the joke? If he is real are there any vids?

In the montreal PRs, he's #1 in melee (ahead of other big names that travel more often like Loki, Kage, Bam). As a result, he handles the melee top tiers in PM better than Ally does. I met him at Polybash, got to fight him in pools and he totally wrecked me, although I did manage to take a stock off him both matches. He really liked using Ike. Hopefully he still feels that way and decides to make a showing repping the Ragnell at some big events.

Edit: Hell, just remembering what it was like to fight his Ike just makes me wanna play Ike now. Too many fun characters in this game, so little time to practice ;_;

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Y'all people need to watch more vids from places other than the US. VWins and M2K played at Polybash over in Canada. He went M2K v/s VWins and Foxco v/s @ AllyKnight , who I sincerely hope has got the chaingrab down by now, lol.

The Mewtwo v/s Ike match-up I feel is not that disadvantageous for Ike, but Ike does need excellent spacing, a good stage and some reads as well as recovery mix-ups. Ike's anti-floaty tech is pretty good and FThrow -> QD -> RAR Bair is worth mastering for Mewtwo alone. Additionally, Ike's Fthrow/Bthrow QD regrabs and a possible Dthrow chaingrab on Mewtwo all make the match-up easier (I say possible because I don't trust CPU DI just yet.) Maybe someone with access to players could confirm, lol.

 

[AllyKnight]

I haven't even practiced it LOL. I get off work for a while so I'm putting alot of time in PM/Smash in general over the summer. I will be ready for SKTAR3!! I feel like Mewtwo does very well vs Ike, his tail is just amazing and most of the time outspaces ike's anything (minus fair) I'm not sure what to do vs Mewtwo. it's hard. Vwins never played m2k's spacies in tourney though, M2K tends to play better during tournaments plus I'M not sure how M2K got cg'ed to 50+% unless those games were played on FD, platforms will break the CG below 20%

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Hey, don't mean to repeat something that's already been discussed, just in case it has, but how do you guys feel about Ganon's mu? I am pretty curious, having not faced any good Ikes, ever.

 

[Y-L]

Hey, don't mean to repeat something that's already been discussed, just in case it has, but how do you guys feel about Ganon's mu? I am pretty curious, having not faced any good Ikes, ever.

I feel the matchup is kinda towards Ike because of his disjoint and he can edgeguard him pretty well. Although Ganon can plow through Ike's QD with wizard's foot.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I feel the matchup is kinda towards Ike because of his disjoint and he can edgeguard him pretty well. Although Ganon can plow through Ike's QD with wizard's foot.

Wizard's foot is easy enough to bait out and punish. Quick-Drawing willy-nilly will of course cost you, but that's true of any match-up. Overall Ike can space Ganon out pretty well, with Nair managing to beat out both kick and flame choke (you can react to these out of QD if you're fast enough). Side-Smash and walk-off fair are very dangerous for Ganon, who has few recourses past a perfect side-B or Down-B -> Jump -> Clever air-dodge. The advantage lies firmly with Ike, provided he plays smart and to his advantages, because Ganon's Dthrow chaingrab and brutal spaced Fairs are very punishing. Unfortunately, Ike can do his best Falcon imitation and just DD camp Ganon, who has few to no answers to this.

 

[Y-L]

Wizard's foot is easy enough to bait out and punish. Quick-Drawing willy-nilly will of course cost you, but that's true of any match-up. Overall Ike can space Ganon out pretty well, with Nair managing to beat out both kick and flame choke (you can react to these out of QD if you're fast enough). Side-Smash and walk-off fair are very dangerous for Ganon, who has few recourses past a perfect side-B or Down-B -> Jump -> Clever air-dodge. The advantage lies firmly with Ike, provided he plays smart and to his advantages, because Ganon's Dthrow chaingrab and brutal spaced Fairs are very punishing. Unfortunately, Ike can do his best Falcon imitation and just DD camp Ganon, who has few to no answers to this.

That's what I was trying to say, you just worded it a lot better haha

 

[BladeOFLucas]

That's kind of what I was suspecting as far as the MU goes.

 

[TylerX5]

Let's not forget Ganon can CC most of Ike's moves well past 50%.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Let's not forget Ganon can CC most of Ike's moves well past 50%.

Wow, totally forgot about that, but that definitely is an asset in all of Ganon's MUs.

 

[maweager93]

Ike has problems dealing with any character that can quickly apply a lot of pressure. Ike just doesn't seem to have many tools to get out of it. It seems like if Ike can apply pressure first he will have a better time in those match ups. I think Link is a hard match up for Ike. I can't find a way around the projectile pressure most of the time till Link actually approaches me himself.

I have this problem with pit and Dr.mario

 

[maweager93]

I nominate Marth v/s Ike most fun matchup. So much spacing and mindgames.

My friend mains Martha and it's 0 to deaths and gimps the whole time

 

[Commander]

I have this problem with pit and Dr.mario

I got rid of that problem a while ago. What you want to do is go as aggressive as possible with in the first few seconds and never let up. Projectiles only become a problem if you let them become problems. Regarding Mario I feel that stage selection is key. You want to pick stages that force Mario to stay close(this works in other match ups with projectiles, I just don't feel it is as key with Mario). Stages like FoD and battlefield are much better choices than PS2 and FD because they just let Mario spam from the very start of the match which makes you play his game. Smaller stages allow you to apply pressure and make Mario react to you instead of the other way around.

 

[Y-L]

How do you guys feel about chars like Zelda/luigi who go too far upwards off of a fthrow/bthrow to get a fair

 

[Commander]

How do you guys feel about chars like Zelda/luigi who go too far upwards off of a fthrow/bthrow to get a fair

dthrow>bair

 

[Y-L]

dthrow>bair

Yeah I try to utilize that but what about high percents when they can DI properly.

 

[metroid1117]

How do you guys feel about chars like Zelda/luigi who go too far upwards off of a fthrow/bthrow to get a fair

QD -> RAR BAir or QD -> (RAR) UAir works best IMO. Both moves come out significantly faster than FAir, which might let you connect with them out of a grab. Not sure about Luigi, but this should work around 60-80% depending on their DI.

dthrow>bair

Yeah I try to utilize that but what about high percents when they can DI properly.

From personal experience, I don't think DThrow -> BAir would work if they DI the DThrow towards Ike's back and down; at that DI, you'd have to either QD -> JC grab or QD -> RAR BAir. I'm not sure about the %s though, since I don't play against Luigi/Zelda very often.

 

[Commander]

From personal experience, I don't think DThrow -> BAir would work if they DI the DThrow towards Ike's back and down; at that DI, you'd have to either QD -> JC grab or QD -> RAR BAir. I'm not sure about the %s though, since I don't play against Luigi/Zelda very often.

That's why you mix up your throws so their DI is off. If they don't expect it you get a free kill.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Dthrow is slow enough to react to.

 

[metroid1117]

That's why you mix up your throws so their DI is off. If they don't expect it you get a free kill.

Dthrow is slow enough to react to.

To elaborate, all of Ike's throws are slow enough to react to except or FThrow - therefore, if the opponent always DIs away and down from Ike to cover FThrow and reacts to his other throws, it's uncommon to get anything more than a tech chase against opponents who are experienced in the match-up. The only throw you might be able to force bad DI on is BThrow, but your opponent might be able to guess which one you'll use depending on stage position.

 

[Spralwers]

so in any situation where you'd land a fair, you'd be able to land a QD RAR Bair as well? Assuming the opponent isn't too low for the bair hitbox to land.

 

[Y-L]

so in any situation where you'd land a fair, you'd be able to land a QD RAR Bair as well? Assuming the opponent isn't too low for the bair hitbox to land.

RAR bair is hardest to get with fair because you have to be more precise. I just got a feel for what percents work on what character. Also depends on DI. Works really well on low percent floaties.

 

[metroid1117]

so in any situation where you'd land a fair, you'd be able to land a QD RAR Bair as well? Assuming the opponent isn't too low for the bair hitbox to land.

Typically, yes. As you pointed out, BAir has less vertical range than FAir, so unless they're too high or too low, you can typically connect with RAR BAir if you can connect with FAir.

 

[T-R3X]

don't know if this is real or has already been discovered but i'm pretty sure that ike can chaingrab shiek with down or f throw if you get the dI mixup to at least 40

aerial jab seems to be working also

 

[TranqJim]

i'm pretty sure that ike can chaingrab shiek with down or f throw

DI will get shiek out of that. Dthrow is good for easy bair kill against her and others with similar weight

 

[T-R3X]

DI will get shiek out of that. Dthrow is good for easy bair kill against her and others with similar weight

I know it's not guaranteed but I'm pretty sure you can mix up down and f throw if you can read the DI (like marth chaingrabs on puff in melee)

 

[Y-L]

I notice I have trouble when I fight people that have projectiles (forcing you to approach/play aggressively) and good dash dances usually dd'ing out of my range. Halp