Ike's Matchups

[BlinkIV]

Yeah, most of that I knew and was implementing while playing. A nice thing I also found out is that F-Tilt also beats Needles, so in some situations..He would go for lagless needle approaches to try and grab after. But I would just F-TIlt, and the hitbox would stay out due to the needles and still hit him.

But yeah, I personally don't mind fighting Shiek or Falcon. The only thing that caught me was getting gimped by Shiek. Essentially, every game I had at least a 1-2 stock lead all the time, but then he'd guess right on the recovery and gimp me from there.

 

[NWRL]

How the **** do you fight Lucas

 

[Commander]

How the **** do you fight Lucas

When I played Neon, he told me "Don't get hit." That seemed to really be it with that match up. I think I'm going to stick to Marth for the PSI kids since he can just fair them to death and Ike doesn't have the speed for them.

 

[NWRL]

Alright, I'm trying to stick with Ike unless absolutely necessary. is this one of those situations?

 

[Commander]

Alright, I'm trying to stick with Ike unless absolutely necessary. is this one of those situations?

I don't think there is such a situation with Ike. Ike is such a well made character that he can handle anything as long as the Ike player is skilled enough. The reason why I'm going to pick Marth for that match up is because I'm lazy and I'd rather have an easier match up in tourney. My only experience with the Lucas match up is Neon, who I've only played once, though so it isn't like I have a very applicable base of knowledge on the match up. Chances are you aren't playing a Lucas of Neon's level so it is more likely you can handle it with Ike.

 

[NWRL]

Alrighty. I'll work on some tech and see if it helps any

 

[WINK ;)]

List me characters that counter Ike please.... I am getting demolished by Ike... :/
I went to a local yesterday and my only loses in friendlies and tournament were by Ike's.
I perform well until I face an Ike. I am just curious at what characters counter him or give him a hard time? (Besides spacies)

 

[metroid1117]

From personal experience, I'd say that Sheik is hard. Depending on how good they are at lasering, Falco is probably up there as well.

 

[Takeshi245]

How the heck are you supposed to fight Kirby? I was facing one of my friends today that has a pretty solid Kirby and I got wrecked. I want to know what I need to do so I can perform better the next time I face him. It's been a while since I've been this frustrated with a character match-up.

 

[Commander]

How the heck are you supposed to fight Kirby? I was facing one of my friends today that has a pretty solid Kirby and I got wrecked. I want to know what I need to do so I can perform better the next time I face him. It's been a while since I've been this frustrated with a character match-up.

I've never played a Kirby but I can't imagine the match up being very different from the Jiggs match up. What is going on in your matches?

 

[Takeshi245]

I've never played a Kirby but I can't imagine the match up being very different from the Jiggs match up. What is going on in your matches?

Though I out-range him, he's able to close in the gap well. Since all of Kirby's aerials come out faster than my own, I can't retaliate when he closes in and it grants him free damage. Dealing with random dash attacks is annoying to deal with considering I can't really shield-grab it, and thanks to his new Inhale mechanics, I got to think twice about fighting him off the edge lest I get sucked in to lose another stock. It's even worse when I'm doing what I can to recover. He also can duck underneath my grab completely so that I miss, which gives him a free d-tilt. If I don't angle my f-tilt downward, he also ducks underneath it.

It's pretty much a lot of miss and not enough hit. It's moreso my lack of experience against facing Kirby with Ike in general for Project M.

 

[King of Hoboz]

I played an okay-ish Kirby frequently enough. He falls super heavy on Brawl habits though, just for your reference of how useful this info can be.

Kirby's dash attack is pretty punishable on whiff, and if your Kirby likes this move, it might be best to just out-dash dancing them into whiffing it.

Nair trying to stuff you? Stuff him back with QD attack.

Kirby on the edge guard isn't exactly too hard for Ike. Bad air speed doesn't help him try to weave out of everything Ike can throw if you scare them enough, and inhale isn't a good answer to a simple Fair.

I think the match-up with Kirby is mostly about showing that you have more speed than him and getting him to whiff.

 

[Y-L]

How do you guys deal with the Link MU? I can't get in at all with his projectile spam and it's hard to deal with that ridiculously overpowered up-b OOS. Literally the only MU that makes it completely unenjoyable to play.
What do you guys do?

 

[NWRL]

Powershield the rang and use nair to swat stuff away from you. It's not a fun matchup at all.

 

[Commander]

How do you guys deal with the Link MU? I can't get in at all with his projectile spam and it's hard to deal with that ridiculously overpowered up-b OOS. Literally the only MU that makes it completely unenjoyable to play.
What do you guys do?

I used to have trouble with this match up. I now go to toe to toe with the Link main who gave me trouble. The ting you need to know about Link's projectiles is that they only get bad if you let them get bad. I try to get in Link's face and keep him from having openings to throw out projectiles. If he does throw out a projectile, you can usually nair through it, but you have to close your distance from him fast so he can't get another one out. You cannot block the zair, except with counter which isn't worth doing at all, and it is best to think of that as a projectile for Link.

When you are in his face your best options are jab and grab, which conveniently link into each other. You would want to do jab1>grab because the jab is faster and is guaranteed to link into the grab if you are close with it. It is possible to do jab1>jab2>grab, but you risk jab2 knocking them too far away and I don't like introducing areas where errors can occur, especially since jab2 wouldn't add enough damage to make it worth it. Once you've grabbed Link you'll find he is very susceptible to Ike's grab game and all of its wonderful DI mix ups.

You can also watch Metroid's videos with Hylian, but my experience may be closer to the level of Link you are facing.

 

[Hazie731]

I am an Ike main and I have been alright with most matchups except Mario/doctor Mario. I can never get in close enough and when I do I get juggled for a ton of damage. His projectile game is the most annoying thing to play against especially when it can be turned into nice combos. So I was wondering how to deal with the Mario Ike matchup?

 

[Y-L]

I am an Ike main and I have been alright with most matchups except Mario/doctor Mario. I can never get in close enough and when I do I get juggled for a ton of damage. His projectile game is the most annoying thing to play against especially when it can be turned into nice combos. So I was wondering how to deal with the Mario Ike matchup?

With mario you can get some nice combos on grabs I tend to go in with full hop nair approaches. If you can get him off stage he is easy to gimp with walk offstage dair and fair. A lot of marios tend to throw a fireball and approach with a move right after it so you can counter and by the time they get to you your counter will hit them.

 

[Hazie731]

With mario you can get some nice combos on grabs I tend to go in with full hop nair approaches. If you can get him off stage he is easy to gimp with walk offstage dair and fair. A lot of marios tend to throw a fireball and approach with a move right after it so you can counter and by the time they get to you your counter will hit them.

Thanks ill give the counter approach a shot because I rarely use ikes counter. My QD bair is my bread and butter but ill just have to change things up when dealing with these projectile fiends lol. thanks for the advice

 

[Y-L]

Thanks ill give the counter approach a shot because I rarely use ikes counter. My QD bair is my bread and butter but ill just have to change things up when dealing with these projectile fiends lol. thanks for the advice

Yeah you have to lay off the QD's and not rely on them when fighting projectile heavy characters I hate it too so I feel you. Just abuse nair.

 

[Y-L]

I just fought a good Tink and it was not a pleasant experience. He's faster than regular 'ol Link, his fast ground speed allows him to projectile camp the entire match, and Ike's weight allows Tink's dthrow to guarantee a combo regardless of DI, bc of nair bair uair and up-b (kill move) covering all DI options. Can't approach with QD because projectiles can't really full hop in because angled boomerang, especially because of getting turned around when you are hit by it. It's like fighting Link but worse. Anyone else share this experience?

 

[GP&B]

Tink can be brutal because he possesses a similar projectile game but has means of getting in on Ike and pressuring him badly in addition to having much faster responses to what Ike throws at him. In situations where you can afford to go into shield against Link, you absolutely cannot against Tink which is what makes the matchup very tricky. I don't have a lot of knowledge on the matchup yet, but I'd say try and clank Boomerang and maybe (as matchup specific as this is) try and AGT bombs back at him. Threaten his space as much as possible, mixing up QD options if he doesn't have a projectile out.

 

[Masterphailure]

I haven't had much experience playing Tink, but like most projectile users, power shielding can throw them off. Try to power shield against the boomerang to screw up his momentum and use that confusion to get in with your nairs. We'll have to investigate more on the match-up though.

 

[Commander]

Power shielding isn't worth while against Tink because you can nair through his projectiles. It is just the same concept as in the Link match up. Get in there and don't let them wall you out.

 

[Y-L]

Yeah it's just hard because his ground speed is so much faster so he does a really good job of running away from Ike. And while he's running he can pull bombs and either keep running or AGT with it which effectively negates QD, Ike's main form of movement.

 

[Commander]

Yeah it's just hard because his ground speed is so much faster so he does a really good job of running away from Ike. And while he's running he can pull bombs and either keep running or AGT with it which effectively negates QD, Ike's main form of movement.

Abuse the fact that Ike has the biggest disjoint and push tink to parts of stage where he can't run.

 

[metroid1117]

Personally, I wouldn't recommend NAir'ing through Link's projectiles while you're close to the ground because it can potentially open you up to get grabbed. I'm not sure if the same is true for YL because I haven't played a good YL before, but I would generally exercise caution when getting back to the ground against tether characters unless they have a really laggy start-up (like ZSS).

 

[Y-L]

Personally, I wouldn't recommend NAir'ing through Link's projectiles while you're close to the ground because it can potentially open you up to get grabbed. I'm not sure if the same is true for YL because I haven't played a good YL before, but I would generally exercise caution when getting back to the ground against tether characters unless they have a really laggy start-up (like ZSS).

That seemed to be the case for me. What do you recommend?

 

[metroid1117]

Clarification to my previous post - if Link is close enough to be hit by the aerial or too far to get a grab in then it's fine to destroy projectiles with them, but I wouldn't recommend just doing it when Link can get a grab.

That seemed to be the case for me. What do you recommend?

It's hard to get around Link's projectiles, but the best way that I've found is to just dodge them and get close enough to Link such that the can't throw anything very safely. Here's an old set I had with Lazarond (before he started being a top force in the Chicago scene); the second game is on FD, so that one might be better to reference. If Link tries to jump in with boomerang, you can try running in and shielding it since Link is vulnerable during the cool-down time. You can also QD under projectiles if he tries to throw them from the air; this tends to work out very nicely for you, since you can now pressure Link as he tries to get down to the ground. Boomerang -> ZAir is hard to deal with if you get stuck in your shield, but if you're far enough away from Link when the boomerang hits, you can wavedash OoS to avoid the ZAir.

 

[Masterphailure]

That's some solid advice metroid, I'll be sure to try it out if I face Link anytime soon.

One of my bigger matchup problems seems to be Mario. I can handle him fine when they use fireball and approach, but I can't handle the Mario who fireballs and rarely goes in. Even though I can clank his fireballs with Jab or just get through them on nair, I always seem to get hit by a majority of the fireballs, which leads to combos.

What's a good, somewhat safe way to approach fireball spam happy Marios?

 

[metroid1117]

I don't have experience against Marios, otherwise I'd comment =/.

 

[Commander]

So the Bowser matchup is pretty fun. Ike has a fthrow chain grab on Bowser that links into dash attack when you get to the ledge and sets up for very easy and fun edge guards. To do the chain grab you have to grab out of Quick Draw. You don't turn around or anything. You just fthrow>QD> grab> fthrow. This chain grab is guaranteed and there is no amount of DI that can help Bowser get out of it. It ends when the stage ends.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I personally like Fthrow -> QD -> Regrab -> Fthrow -> QD Attack -> Ftilt. QD Attack -> Ftilt is a solid combo on a lot of characters of a certain weight (Marth, Sheik, Ganon, Bowser, Roy, etc.) at lower percents, and close to the edge it sends them off at a horizontal angle as well as tacking on some good percent. The Bowser match-up in general I find easy for Ike; I've heard it's even since Bowser can mess Ike back up real fierce. While that's true I find myself pretty comfortable while fighting him, which is really what counts most.

 

[NWRL]

Eruption is probably the best option for edgeguarding Bowser too

 

[Commander]

I personally like Fthrow -> QD -> Regrab -> Fthrow -> QD Attack -> Ftilt. QD Attack -> Ftilt is a solid combo on a lot of characters of a certain weight (Marth, Sheik, Ganon, Bowser, Roy, etc.) at lower percents, and close to the edge it sends them off at a horizontal angle as well as tacking on some good percent. The Bowser match-up in general I find easy for Ike; I've heard it's even since Bowser can mess Ike back up real fierce. While that's true I find myself pretty comfortable while fighting him, which is really what counts most.

I don't see the point in comboing Bowser when you can chain grab him and edge guard easier. The f tilt us an amazing move in every situation. It works great for spacing, killing, finishing combos, and edge guarding.

There is no way the Bowser matchup is even. The Bowser I was playing against when I discovered/confirmed this chain grab feels it is 60-40 in Ike's favor and he is one of the better Bowsers in the region. This mostly has to do with the fact that Ike has a disjointed hitbox and Bowser is a giant hurt box. If you act intelligently you won't have any problems in the matchup. Don't let Bowser trap you on the ledge, he will keep you there and his bthrow is stupidly good.

Eruption is probably the best option for edgeguarding Bowser too

Eruption works when he is recovering from below or hat away. If he recovers horizontally he can be among to go above the ledge and hit you which would cause eruption to hit him up instead of spike and it is harder for Ike to juggle than it is for other characters. I preferred using shffl'ed fairs as my edge guard. It goes a little bit below thr stage and since Bowser is so big it is guaranteed to hit. This way you cover all options of Bowser's recovery. Also the fair has more range than ftilt.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I don't see the point in comboing Bowser when you can chain grab him and edge guard easier.

FTilting Bowser at the edge puts him in a much worse position than Fthrow does. If he's at the chaingrab percent, carrying him to the edge and then QD -> Ftilting him off sends him out farther and lower, leaving him vulnerable to Eruption, walk-off fair, or really your swat of choice.

 

[Commander]

FTilting Bowser at the edge puts him in a much worse position than Fthrow does. If he's at the chaingrab percent, carrying him to the edge and then QD -> Ftilting him off sends him out farther and lower, leaving him vulnerable to Eruption, walk-off fair, or really your swat of choice.

You don't fthrow him at the edge. Just dash attack once you get to the edge since you can't chain grab at the edge anymore. The dash attack is going to hit more consistently and sends him out far enough. Also he has to be at like 200% to get out of the chain grab so you have nothing to worry about. SHFFl'd air is also the best edge guard because it is simple and it covers all options. Never work harder than you have to.

 

[metroid1117]

Commander, what direction is the Bowser DI'ing when you FThrow him? From personal experience, I don't think FThrow -> QD -> regrab is a guaranteed chaingrab on any character if they DI properly; it definitely doesn't work on Bowser at 21% and 65%.

From my experience against Kirk, I think that this match-up is even; Ike combos pretty hard when he can get a grab, but if the Bowser plays smart with crouch-cancels and DI's properly (which negates the ability to re-grab), it's hard to combo Bowser from 0% to death from a single grab because NAir armor can interrupt aerial combos and a perfect up+B leaves at most 6 frames to punish a standing tech (not sure about techrolls though). It's also difficult to get in on smart Bowsers because DTilt and Firebreath both have a lot of reach; even when you do get in, Bowser's weight allows him to CC -> up+B for a long time, which negates the possibility of getting jab -> grab or starting combos with NAir until high %s. Bowser's FAir is also very long and comes out faster than most of Ike's other aerials, and with the ability to jump-cancel down+B, it makes coming down from the air in front of Bowser difficult. Granted, this was with 2.6b Bowser and not 3.0 Bowser, but most of the things should still apply.

 

[Commander]

I'll have to ask him about his DI. I did ask him if it was a real chain grab and he said it seemed to be. I was doing it for a full set so I can't imagine him not trying every direction possible unless he just dosen't understand DI or something. I think the average player would catch on after 1 or 2 stocks.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Commander, what direction is the Bowser DI'ing when you FThrow him? From personal experience, I don't think FThrow -> QD -> regrab is a guaranteed chaingrab on any character if they DI properly; it definitely doesn't work on Bowser at ~21% and ~65%.

From my experience against Kirk, I think that this match-up is even; Ike combos pretty hard when he can get a grab, but if the Bowser plays smart with crouch-cancels and DI's properly (which negates the ability to re-grab), it's hard to combo Bowser from 0% to death from a single grab because NAir armor can interrupt aerial combos and a perfect up+B leaves at most 6 frames to punish a standing tech (not sure about techrolls though). It's also difficult to get in on smart Bowsers because DTilt and Firebreath both have a lot of reach; even when you do get in, Bowser's weight allows him to CC -> up+B for a long time, which negates the possibility of getting jab -> grab or starting combos with NAir until high %s. Bowser's FAir is also very long and comes out faster than most of Ike's other aerials, and with the ability to jump-cancel down+B, it makes coming down from the air in front of Bowser difficult. Granted, this was with 2.6b Bowser and not 3.0 Bowser, but most of the things should still apply.

Honestly, have the 3.0 changes affected the Ike/Bowser match-up that much? Fair is *stronger*, Nair is more of a combo starter/breaker and I don't think Bair was that extensively used in the match anyway.

 

[metroid1117]

Honestly, have the 3.0 changes affected the Ike/Bowser match-up that much? Fair is *stronger*, Nair is more of a combo starter/breaker and I don't think Bair was that extensively used in the match anyway.

I can't really say, I haven't played a Bowser as good as Kirk since back when I lived in Chicago.

... Hell, I haven't played him since SMYM last year lol.