Ike's Matchups

[AfroQT]

Remember to prepare yourself.

 

[Narelex]

Be really defensive with nair and jabs, constantly out space him, if he doesn't sweetspot, use Eruption, f-smash, or f-tilt. Don't get knocked off stage because they got rid of the armor on Aether so he can just spring and kill you. I think Sonic is a fast faller, so if you do grab him, you get a lot off of them at low and mid percents. I try to go to medium size stages since he can chock you out on small stages and on big ones, you can give him too much freedom.

Sonic actually falls in the midrange of fallspeed he's slightly floatier then Ike

3.5 Chart I use to reference Fallspeed (some weights are outdated)

http://i.imgur.com/34i71B4.jpg

 

[Narelex]

What Matchup's do you feel have improved for Ike? Due to the 3.6 changes the other characters got?

 

[X0dus]

What Matchup's do you feel have improved for Ike due to the 3.6 changes?

"Improved"

 

[Sylarius]

What Matchup's do you feel have improved for Ike due to the 3.6 changes, The other characters got?

Sheik is definitely better. I don't know what else lol, any characters that got significantly nerfed...

 

[X0dus]

Sheik is definitely better. I don't know what else lol, any characters that got significantly nerfed...

Maybe. Down throw is still really good and Back throw is better for throwing people off stage (Unfortunately, it isn't a DI mix-up anymore) and its easier for her to kill Ike. I think Ike loses solidly now.

 

[metroid1117]

IMHO the match-up is better now - the previous BThrow allowed for Sheik to simply keep tech chasing if the opponent tried to get away, since teching towards to the edge would allow Sheik to just BThrow you back onto the stage to continue tech chasing you. Ike did lose weak armor on Aether and QD takes longer to reach max charge, but Sheik was already good at edgeguarding him anyway so I don't think it changed things that much.

Speaking of Sheik, I won two sets against Captain Faceroll (2nd or 3rd best Sheik in Chicago now, he's leveled up a lot since he started going to school in SoCal) in Grand Finals at the last Wavedash Wednesday. The video is here.

 

[lordhelmet]

I played him at an E2C? last year. Def looks like he got a lot better. Watching now.

Also PMDT is dumb because all they had to do was add a few more startup frames to bthrow so that it wasn't so hard to react to. Now she is another nerfed Melee char that no one wants to play (more moves to hurt the game's popularity imo). Also, Faceroll has the worst tag I have ever seen. Shots

 

[Idostuff]

Can anyone help me with the Ike vs Dk match up? I feel like on paper Ike wins, but I still lose from a combination of my friend being better than me and Ike only being my secondary since I'm in the process of transitioning from Sheik this patch.

 

[X0dus]

Can anyone help me with the Ike vs Dk match up? I feel like on paper Ike wins, but I still lose from a combination of my friend being better than me and Ike only being my secondary since I'm in the process of transitioning from Sheik this patch.

He is big, he is heavy, you juggle the **** out of him, you combo him to death, do your best not to get grabbed, he is easy to grab and you get a lot of your grabs like QD regrab or a normal regrab from F-throw and back throw, down throw into whatever, upthrow works well at low percents. He is incredibly easy edge guard since you just need to knock him off stage, then counter when he up-B's or fair him. Spiking him also works. A lot of it is just trying to get grabs, not to get grabbed yourself, playing very safe, abusing your disjoints, and getting him off stage.

I use to play DK in 3.02 but I don't really like him in 3.5 and 3.6. I still mess around with him every now and again.

 

[NWRL]

IMHO the match-up is better now - the previous BThrow allowed for Sheik to simply keep tech chasing if the opponent tried to get away, since teching towards to the edge would allow Sheik to just BThrow you back onto the stage to continue tech chasing you. Ike did lose weak armor on Aether and QD takes longer to reach max charge, but Sheik was already good at edgeguarding him anyway so I don't think it changed things that much.

Speaking of Sheik, I won two sets against Captain Faceroll (2nd or 3rd best Sheik in Chicago now, he's leveled up a lot since he started going to school in SoCal) in Grand Finals at the last Wavedash Wednesday. The video is here.

lol pooch is such a ******, the salt he has towards ike is hilarious

thanks for the video

 

[Deleted member]

IMHO the match-up is better now - the previous BThrow allowed for Sheik to simply keep tech chasing if the opponent tried to get away, since teching towards to the edge would allow Sheik to just BThrow you back onto the stage to continue tech chasing you. Ike did lose weak armor on Aether and QD takes longer to reach max charge, but Sheik was already good at edgeguarding him anyway so I don't think it changed things that much.

the problem with this strategy is that its bad. its pretty much always better to throw the opponent to the edge so you get to play sheik_at_the_edge, pretty good character there. any time sheik throws you back in towards the stage you should be grateful she went for damage she didnt need and possibly offered you a free reset to neutral instead of killing you outright. which is particularly good since ike generally struggles to reset to neutral anyway. from the ike side of the MU, it's definitely better, going from probably a 4-6 to a 5-5 MU. however, both characters had their grabs gimped and therefore have pretty mediocre conversions now, so the MU by two good players feels like it drags out forever. not a fan.

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

What's an Ike MU spread look like this patch?

 

[Frakture]

the problem with this strategy is that its bad. its pretty much always better to throw the opponent to the edge so you get to play sheik_at_the_edge, pretty good character there. any time sheik throws you back in towards the stage you should be grateful she went for damage she didnt need and possibly offered you a free reset to neutral instead of killing you outright. which is particularly good since ike generally struggles to reset to neutral anyway. from the ike side of the MU, it's definitely better, going from probably a 4-6 to a 5-5 MU. however, both characters had their grabs gimped and therefore have pretty mediocre conversions now, so the MU by two good players feels like it drags out forever. not a fan.

What do you mean when you say that Ike has his grab gimped? The only significant change to his grab game that I have noticed is that the up throw chaingrab on spacies ends 20% sooner.

 

[Deleted member]

What do you mean when you say that Ike has his grab gimped? The only significant change to his grab game that I have noticed is that the up throw chaingrab on spacies ends 20% sooner.

before ikes upthrow pretty much did absolutely whatever you wanted, the upthrow was imo ikes best conversion tool so losing it in any capacity hurts quite a bit

 

[Frakture]

before ikes upthrow pretty much did absolutely whatever you wanted, the upthrow was imo ikes best conversion tool so losing it in any capacity hurts quite a bit

I agree that Ike's up throw is his best conversion tool, but I think it's still super good. For instance, you can still get guaranteed combos off of up throw on Shiek until 90%.

 

[Sylarius]

I agree that Ike's up throw is his best conversion tool, but I think it's still super good. For instance, you can still get guaranteed combos off of up throw on Shiek until 90%.

What lol. Can I see evidence to back this up? Since the change to uthrow I've been having problems doing anything close to what I used to be able to do with uthrow except for spacies... I find it really hard to believe you can get something guaranteed off Sheik at 80%

 

[Frakture]

What lol. Can I see evidence to back this up? Since the change to uthrow I've been having problems doing anything close to what I used to be able to do with uthrow except for spacies... I find it really hard to believe you can get something guaranteed off Sheik at 80%

Go into debug mode yourself and try it out. On Shiek at 80%, you can true combo fair off of up throw regardless of DI.
If Shiek doesn't DI, fullhop on the first frame possible, DJ on the tenth frame of airtime, and then immediately fair.
If Shiek DI's away, run forward for one frame on the first possible frame, fullhop, then DJ fair on frame nine.
There are probably some frames of leniency when doing this in real time, and the opponent will probably not be frame perfect either. After 80%, Shiek can escape with a DJ or possibly an airdodge, but that still leaves her in a very disadvantageous position.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Even if that were true (I haven't tested it), Sheik gets combo'd pretty easily by most characters anyways. But when you compare our 3.5 Uthrow conversions to our 3.6 Uthrow conversions on floaties, we got hit preeettyyyy hard. I don't even think Nair is guaranteed anymore on floaties, such as Squirtle.

 

[Frakture]

Even if that were true (I haven't tested it), Sheik gets combo'd pretty easily by most characters anyways. But when you compare our 3.5 Uthrow conversions to our 3.6 Uthrow conversions on floaties, we got hit preeettyyyy hard. I don't even think Nair is guaranteed anymore on floaties, such as Squirtle.

You can true combo Squirtle with nair until at least 55%. You can even combo Jiggs until above 25%. I honestly don't see any functional difference in Ike's up throw except on the spacie chaingrab, and I use up throw pretty much exclusively.

 

[Deleted member]

to be fair i did say that both grabs were gimped and the MU was more even- sheiks throws were certainly nerfed harder. my conclusion is similar to yours, the difference is a matter of degree i think.

 

[Moy]

lol pooch is such a ******, the salt he has towards ike is hilarious

thanks for the video

I play against Pooch a lot, and he hasn't been able to beat me until pretty recently, basically forcing himself to play the matchup perfectly (Ike-Samus). He's very vocal about his opinions, especially towards a character that, in all honesty, is probably Samus' worst MU in the game.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

What do you guys think about fighting Squirtle? I played one a few weeks ago and couldn't beat him as Ike. It seemed like he was just running circles around me, his moves came out faster, and I couldn't super hard combo him. I think I was playing good/subpar, but not great or bad. If you wanna see a video just ask but it's not a youtube video, it's still on the original Twitch VOD. Also @ metroid1117 can you refer me to more common areas that have your sets/matches?

 

[metroid1117]

What do you guys think about fighting Squirtle? I played one a few weeks ago and couldn't beat him as Ike. It seemed like he was just running circles around me, his moves came out faster, and I couldn't super hard combo him. I think I was playing good/subpar, but not great or bad. If you wanna see a video just ask but it's not a youtube video, it's still on the original Twitch VOD. Also @ metroid1117 can you refer me to more common areas that have your sets/matches?

I have some matches up on my YouTube channel, but because I've been playing at WDWs as of late (which will discontinue in about two weeks since I'm moving for work), some of my more recent matches can be found at EXPGaming.

With regards to the Squirtle match-up, IMHO it's weird because both characters have great punish games on each other but Squirtle has a better (more obnoxious) neutral game. While he has maneuverability with Withdraw and shellshifting, as well as projectile-like tools like short-hop Bubble and Water Gun, NAir and FAir still really valuable spacing tools; FAir can outrange either Bubble or Water Gun if they misspace it or telegraph it such that you can position yourself properly, while retreating NAir can stuff out Withdraw. In terms of comboing, I've found a lot of success with FThrow/BThrow/DThrow since his floatiness makes him easy to combo off of with bad DI and his horrendous tech rolls are easy to punish. DACUS is a particularly great killing option if you catch him with bad DI out of throws at 70%, so be on the lookout for opportunities if you see sloppy play. As for edgeguarding, I personally wouldn't recommend Eruption since Squirtle has relatively easy methods to counter it (double-jump Water Gun, going high, and ledge teching); walk-off FAir covers a big range if Squirtle tries to get low too predictably, while covering the edge with weak DAir -> BAir also works if they don't up+B early enough to clip you. Traditional methods like grab edge -> edgehop BAir are good too if you read a late up+B.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Even if that were true (I haven't tested it), Sheik gets combo'd pretty easily by most characters anyways. But when you compare our 3.5 Uthrow conversions to our 3.6 Uthrow conversions on floaties, we got hit preeettyyyy hard. I don't even think Nair is guaranteed anymore on floaties, such as Squirtle.

Gives us more incentive to explore Dthrow and QDJC aerial options. Sounds good for the meta overall.

 

[CyberZixx]

How does everyone here feel about the Tink and Roy match ups. Trying to figure out how I should best combat this character.

 

[Commander]

Toon Link's advantages are in his ground speed and attack speed. Toon Link's projectiles aren't that good at zoning, particularly in the Ike match up, since Ike can just nair through them. You want to try and get in and combo Ike. Same thing with Roy.

Just bait and then go for a combo.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

So I've played a couple spacies before as Ike, and I picked him up mainly because I didn't have a real spacy slayer character, and I'm actually surprisingly good at the Fox matchup only from having watched Ally play M2K. Can someone break down the matchup or give general points so that I can refine my knowledge against them? I think I'm pretty good against them but if they beat my Ike I don't think I can out spacy them as Wolf and I don't like chain grabbing as DK.

 

[Commander]

Keep your distance to be the length of Ragnell. When you can, go for a chain grab because it sets up for easy bairs and fairs to knock them off stage for edge guarding.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

That's usually what I do, chain grab and up throw stuff. Usually a bunch of nairs to try and carry them off the stage and then F smash them. I've come to the conclusion that if they recover from below that they're basically dead since F smash covers below the ledge

 

[WoolMoth]

So I just created an account because I wanted to help you guys (I've been lurking for a while). I don't know if this was discussed earlier or not but I played 12 games against a good bowser jr. and after winning 10 games (two I lost do to SD) I honestly think Ike is favored to heavily favored in the match up. Quick draw completely shuts down any sort of approach bowser jr. really has as it out prioritizes his side b as well as his dash attack. Quick draw also seems fairly safe to challenge a charging forward smash (though not 100% safe). Quick draw can also challenge when he sets up a mecha koopa if you short hop into it since you fly over the mech. As well as a cannon ball since it has so much start and end lag. Bowser Jr. really has no good way to deal with bair in the air since his aerials are so slow. Eruption and up smash are also a very reasonable ways to edge guard him recovering low as there is a certain height where if bowser jr. tries to recover from he will actually over shoot the edge, missing the sweet spot, leaving him helpless out side his clown car as he has no way to challenge you from above in that state. The player I was going up against wasn't bad either. He just really couldn't find opportunities to find openings since I covered them so well with only quick draw. I played against him with some other characters I was decent at and I got wrecked. I apologize if this was already known or discussed before. It is just a rarer match up so I thought maybe it could help.

 

[WoolMoth]

**** this is the PM thread I feel really stupid now

 

[Commander]

Welcome to the better Ike.

 

[King of Hoboz]

Welcome to the best Ike.

Correction. Hey, guys. Edgeguarding Pikachu, how to?

Seemed to me the best thing to do was grab ledge and force on stage recovery. I managed to do that and get some bairs on Pika. Then he started to overshoot onto the center of stage. I think for me to punish that I would need to work on my QD's off the ledge (which I still haven't gotten down).

 

[Jake The Preacher]

That sounds like the best assessment. maybe try and read a pattern on when he goes center stage and when he doesn't. AD is perfect for that scenario though.

 

[Commander]

The only other option would be to put a fair hit box over the ledge, but the requires precise timing. Forcing on stage recovery is always easy and a good option.

 

[NWRL]

Got knocked out of loser's finals by a GnW, kind of salty about that. How is this matchup supposed to be played?

 

[Jake The Preacher]

Number one thing is spacing I think, GW actually doesn't have a ton of range so spacing things is really important. The rest of it I'm not sure, my friend plays GW but last time I played him as Ike was before summer so I'm not much help.

 

[Deleted member]

How does everyone here feel about the Tink and Roy match ups. Trying to figure out how I should best combat this character.

i played lunchables at these 2 nights ago and an hour and a half in i started making suicidal gestures because my gargles for pity were incomprehensible.

 

[CyberZixx]

i played lunchables at these 2 nights ago and an hour and a half in i started making suicidal gestures because my gargles for pity were incomprehensible.

Umbreon translation: both are solid match ups, I just need to learn how to fight Ike better in general, and pick my character based on personal preference.

So what exactly was it he was doing that made it so frustrating for you?