If tourneys approved hacks?

[zxeon]

I'm not challenging what you said zxeon, I am just having trouble understanding what side of the argument you are on. You aren't making much sense.

Just look at all the posts I have made or If you are not in the mood to do that look at my join date.

I remember what the smashboards where like before Brawl and it's boors showed up. Does anyone else here rember that?

 

[mariofanpm12]

Well with the SSBM Air Dodge code you can use the slight delay between the time your air dodge finishes and the time you go into helpless state to actually air dodge again. Fairly cheap, and makes it similar to Brawl in that foes can't be easily punished.

I really don't care either way, though.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Zxeon, your join date really does not mean much to me considering your post count.

What's the point of being a jerk when you can just explain your point of view?

 

[Pikaville]

For the people who are saying "Go play melee,this is brawl"

You guys need to get it through you thick skulls that there might be some people out there that would have just wanted melee with the new characters and stages instead of brawl,and this is what they are achieving.

Get over it......enjoy losing to metaknight and tripping losing you matches.You gonna have to get used to it.

We'll stay out of your way and enjoy our new ways around (as we the pro-hack people see it) brawls detrimental flaws/s**tness.

 

[zxeon]

Zxeon, your join date really does not mean much to me considering your post count.

What's the point of being a jerk when you can just explain your point of view?

I'm all for hacking brawl. I never had to post before brawl came out. And didn't you see my signature? Look down.

 

[zxeon]

Well with the SSBM Air Dodge code you can use the slight delay between the time your air dodge finishes and the time you go into helpless state to actually air dodge again. Fairly cheap, and makes it similar to Brawl in that foes can't be easily punished.

I really don't care either way, though.

You are using an old code. Get the new one. Lurk more

 

[unwelc0med]

TOO BAD SBR IS AGAINST THIS

/caps

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

For the people who are saying "Go play melee,this is brawl"

You guys need to get it through you thick skulls that there might be some people out there that would have just wanted melee with the new characters and stages instead of brawl,and this is what they are achieving.

Get over it......enjoy losing to metaknight and tripping losing you matches.You gonna have to get used to it.

We'll stay out of your way and enjoy our new ways around (as we the pro-hack people see it) brawls detrimental flaws/s**tness.

This thread is not a discussion about hacking in general. This thread is asking if the mainstream Brawl tournament scene will accept "Melee 2.0".

I have said that I support hacking, I just don't think you can change a game and still call it the original version.

 

[zxeon]

TOO BAD SBR IS AGAINST THIS

/caps

It's too bad I don't give a ****.

/apostrophes

 

[SmashBro99]

No, because Brawl is not melee, melee is not brawl. If you REALLY want brawl to be melee 2.0, then go make it yourself. Though I'm sure wavedashing and L cancleing in brawl is fun, its just not for tournaments.

Smart dude right here.

Nty.

 

[br4n]

im so sick of the 'GO PLAY MELEE RESPONSES' to this subject, the fact is brawl is a failed game (competitively) if we have the ability to fix it, WHY NOT?

 

[zxeon]

Smart dude right here.

Nty.

There's a scrub right there

im so sick of the 'GO PLAY MELEE RESPONSES' to this subject, the fact is brawl is a failed game (competitively) if we have the ability to fix it, WHY NOT?

This is the guy you are looking for.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Who is saying to "go play Melee"? We are just saying that Brawl is Brawl and by changing it, it will not be Brawl. How can you have a Brawl tournament without Brawl?

 

[zxeon]

Who is saying to "go play Melee"? We are just saying that Brawl is Brawl and by changing it, it will not be Brawl. How can you have a Brawl tournament without Brawl?

Don't you mean your definition of Brawl?

 

[br4n]

Who is saying to "go play Melee"? We are just saying that Brawl is Brawl and by changing it, it will not be Brawl. How can you have a Brawl tournament without Brawl?

i want to falcon punch you.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Don't you mean your definition of Brawl?

That doesn't even make sense. The game was programmed to be a certain way. I am not against hacking the game, but it is simply wrong to say that a game that has been modified from it's original design is the same as the original version.

What about that doesn't make sense to you?

 

[IWuvGeno]

This community is so held back by illogical arguments. Some of the most competitive games of our time have been mods (modified games). Use your brains.

For instance: Counter-strike. A couple people modified the SDK of Half-Life and made something that trumped the Half-Life multiplayer 100 times over. Without a doubt, this is the most popular competitive game of all time. The world of gaming would be a much worse place if community projects like this weren't created.

There is nothing preventing a portion of the community from playing competitively with a modified game. It's a huge hassle, but if it makes Brawl better than melee, it's worth the time.

Don't listen to all these people still stuck on Sakurai's Brawl. If you want it, do it to it baby. yayuhz

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

I am not saying CS isn't a great game. But it would have been crazy for the people who made CS to have called it Half-Life.

Mod Brawl as much as possible, make Melee 2.0, but do not try to call it Brawl when it clearly isn't.

 

[BEES]

I have no problems with hacked Brawl tournaments, although I suspect no tripping is the only hack that will ever see widespread tournament use.

 

[jehonaker]

Mod Brawl as much as possible, make Melee 2.0, but do not try to call it Brawl when it clearly isn't.

I agree wholly with this.

I understand the side of the Melee stalwarts, having gone back to Melee for a few reasons. It seemed that, in an effort to be more inclusive, the development team overlooked the people that made the game's predecessor as popular as it is. They did literally spit in the face of the Melee players.

At the same time, Melee is Melee, and Brawl is Brawl. You simply can't slap a coat of paint on an eel and call it a snake, and modding Brawl to be "Melee v.2" is doing that. (Brawl the eel, Melee the snake.)
Brawl has more problems than L-canceling and the general overhaul of the physics engine...character balance comes to mind.
No matter how much one tweaked it, it wouldn't be Melee...but it wouldn't be Brawl, either.

I usually can't stand modding, but I understand the why in this case. I wouldn't play a hacked version of Brawl, but I don't care if others decide to do so.
I just hope it's not tournament legal. It would be analogous to hacking another game without the "baggage" and using that as tourney legal...it's wrong.

 

[zxeon]

No one is trying to make it into Melee 2.0 or anything like Melee at all. It will never be like Melee. We are just trying to make it better by Increasing the amount of skill it takes to win from picking Meta Knight to something meaningful. By the way we like to call it Brawl+.

 

[JLynn943]

ok, if tourneys start approving hacks, smashers are going to be much more seperated in ability than they currently are.

Generally, most competitive Brawl players have been here since the beginning of Brawl. The current competitive Brawl scene is a fairly even playing field player-wise, as everyone is still trying to figure out a still very new game.

If we see all of the Melee 2.0 hacks approved, the smashers who have been competitive since Melee are going to immediately become much better than the newer competitive smashers who didn't get the chance to learn (and the experience with) the ATs and everything from Melee.

I'm not saying (if hacks are approved) that it isn't fair that the newer people should have to learn everything from Melee that the older people spent so much time perfecting. Instead, I'm saying that it's a serious hindrance to the development of Brawl's metagame. If we have all these people trying to catch up with smashers who already know everything from Melee, there are a lot less people trying develop Brawl.

Even if hacks aren't approved for Brawl, hacking still hurts Brawl's development. Very good players would just be playing the same old thing they've been playing for years, instead of working on a game that still has a lot of promise.

 

[kupo15]

I know for me, all I want is proper l canceling, hitstun and no tripping...aka basic fundamentals of super smash bros (last time I checked this is a smash game) Im cool with the new air dodge system and the different metagame. (ie. I dont support hacking the game to bring back shine canceling and other melee specific things)

 

[IWuvGeno]

JLyn, it really is less about making Melee 2.0 than you think. Most people just want the game to play well. The game could take a few hints from Melee, perhaps not as much as you think.

But, this discussion is getting too far off topic.

 

[zxeon]

Hey JLyn, cry me a river. People with previous experience tend to do better at things thats how the world works. Being skilled is not a right you have to earn it. If people happen to be better than you at any time it is your responsibility alone to level out the playing field don't expect to have your hand held.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

I am not saying CS isn't a great game. But it would have been crazy for the people who made CS to have called it Half-Life.

Mod Brawl as much as possible, make Melee 2.0, but do not try to call it Brawl when it clearly isn't.

if anyone hasnt understood what he means by now they should leave this thread

out hack would need a good name,this is more than Melee 2.0,but somthing far greater,therefore it needs a better name

Hey JLyn, cry me a river. People with previous experience tend to do better at things thats how the world works. Being skilled is not a right you have to earn it. If people happen to be better than you at any time it is your responsibility alone to level out the playing field don't expect to have your hand held.

IE: learn what they already know,then learn more,then beat them

 

[The Real Inferno]

Don't we already have an official thread for the discussion of hacks?

 

[Wind Owl]

We have like six.

 

[The Real Inferno]

Then I beg the question of why I'm sitting here reading another one instead of this being in one of those.

 

[MBlaze]

I want the people here at Smashboards or anyone else to view all the points brought up why this should be done because this would do a world of good for competitive Brawl (Except Waveshining) and balance Brawl so much more. Seriously, this needs to be considered.

 

[link2702]

:| mblaze...not just no, but HELL no, play brawl the way it was programmed, or go play melee, I love melee, wavedashing, l-canceling, ect. but i DO NOT want it HACKED into brawl, learn how to improve brawls competitive scene the WAY BRAWLS ALREADY PROGRAMMED, or just go back to melee.

for the last time, BRAWL =/= MELEE, brawl is not melee, brawl will NEVER BE melee, and it should never be hacked to PLAY LIKE MELEE, brawl is brawl, and melee is melee.


if you people wanna do it for your own enjoyment, fine, go ahead, but it SHOULD NEVER EVER BE CONSIDERED TOURNY STANDARD FOR BRAWL! BRAWL SHOULD BE PLAYED THE WAY ITS PROGRAMMED FOR TOURNAMENTS, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, THEN GO TO A MELEE TOURNAMENT INSTEAD, DO NOT HACK BRAWL TO PLAY AS MELEE AND TRY TO MAKE IT TOURNY STANDARD, BRAWLS COMPETITIVE SCENE WILL NEVER IMPROVE IT YOU CONSTANTLY JUST FORCE IT TO BE MELEE, LEARN TO IMPROVE BRAWLS COMPETITIVE SCENE THE WAY BRAWL IS ALREADY PROGRAMMED!


=_=;

 

[MuBa]

I believe the only hacks that should exist in Brawl are -> L-Canceling, No Tripping, Record above 3 minutes, faster falls (Kinda like Heavy Brawl minus the reduced jumping height) and Longer hitstun (throws, tilts and aerials with knockback only).

Optional -> We could also hack Pokemon Trainer where the pokemons don't get fatigued AND also respawn the same pokemon you were using in the previous stock.

Wavedashing isn't that necessary since a lot of people like the Brawl's airdodge system.


With something simple like this in mind, I am very sure that Brawl would be a bigger success in terms of being competitive.

And this project could take MUCH less time for the SBR to complete than trying to make the game more balanced.

 

[link2702]

I believe the only hacks that should exist in Brawl are -> L-Canceling, No Tripping, Record above 3 minutes, faster falls (Kinda like Heavy Brawl minus the reduced jumping height) and Longer hitstun (throws, tilts and aerials with knockback only).

Optional -> We could also hack Pokemon Trainer where the pokemons don't get fatigued AND also respawn the same pokemon you were using in the previous stock.

Wavedashing isn't that necessary since a lot of people like the Brawl's airdodge system.


With something simple like this in mind, I am very sure that Brawl would be a bigger success in terms of being able to combo

And SBR could make a patch for that and the game would be a lot more competitive than it ever was.

we need to improve brawl competitive aspects the way its already programmed =_=; the only hack I could even SLIGHTLY approve of is the allowing of recording more then 3 minutes, because its not actually effecting the way brawl is played.

 

[MattNF]

:| mblaze...not just no, but HELL no, play brawl the way it was programmed, or go play melee, I love melee, wavedashing, l-canceling, ect. but i DO NOT want it HACKED into brawl, learn how to improve brawls competitive scene the WAY BRAWLS ALREADY PROGRAMMED, or just go back to melee.

for the last time, BRAWL =/= MELEE, brawl is not melee, brawl will NEVER BE melee, and it should never be hacked to PLAY LIKE MELEE, brawl is brawl, and melee is melee.


if you people wanna do it for your own enjoyment, fine, go ahead, but it SHOULD NEVER EVER BE CONSIDERED TOURNY STANDARD FOR BRAWL! BRAWL SHOULD BE PLAYED THE WAY ITS PROGRAMMED FOR TOURNAMENTS, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, THEN GO TO A MELEE TOURNAMENT INSTEAD, DO NOT HACK BRAWL TO PLAY AS MELEE AND TRY TO MAKE IT TOURNY STANDARD, BRAWLS COMPETITIVE SCENE WILL NEVER IMPROVE IT YOU CONSTANTLY JUST FORCE IT TO BE MELEE, LEARN TO IMPROVE BRAWLS COMPETITIVE SCENE THE WAY BRAWL IS ALREADY PROGRAMMED!


=_=;

Dude, people are allowed to play Smash however they feel like it. If they want to play it like Melee 2.0 then you have to get over it. -_-

Personally, I think having tournaments with hacked Brawl would be cool, but I don't think it will become popular enough to be tourney standard.

 

[link2702]

Dude, people are allowed to play Smash however they feel like it. If they want to play it like Melee 2.0 then you have to get over it. -_-

Personally, I think having tournaments with hacked Brawl would be cool, but I don't think it will become popular enough to be tourney standard.

I know people are allowed to play it however they want, but they're WANTING this to become tourny standard, and on that, NO, if people wanna hack brawl into "melee2.0" becasue they can't accept braw as it is, then fine, let em, force brawl into melee2.0, but they should NOT TRY TO MAKE THE HACKS TOURNY STANDARD, THAT is what has me so angry, people are wanting these hacks STANDARD for brawl! and thats just sad.

 

[MuBa]

we need to improve brawl competitive aspects the way its already programmed =_=; the only hack I could even SLIGHTLY approve of is the allowing of recording more then 3 minutes, because its not actually effecting the way brawl is played.

We as a whole community have seriously tried almost everything we can do and there is little to no success.

And please do not give me the whole "It took Melee 7 years to get to this" talk. The interest for Melee's competitive scene to flourish took a long time then people started finding out universal ATs that made the game so good.

Now Brawl on the other hand, people have nitpicked it left and right even before the game came out for 8 months and we're having so many issues with its limited style. I don't think Brawl needs any more time to develop the metagame.

I personally say we hack Brawl and make minimal-yet-universal changes on it like I've mentioned in the previous post.

I would love to have Brawl with a more competitive gameplay.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Being a sharker(ie a person who owns cheat devices and uses them), I can't disagree with a hacked tourney, kind of.

No tripping would be perfect. I also loved L-Cancelling, and would want it back(but I can deal without it). Wavedashing, and of course, Melee Air Dodge doesn't bother me. I would prefer that Giga Bowser last longer and Super Sonic become shorter(not rediculously short, so obviously I don't want their times switched). I also agree with Metaknight getting a bit of nerfing in his moves. Besides that, Dedede is very beatable, even by a Bowser.(I've done it myself) So he doesn't need any huge changing, from what I've seen anyway.

Recording more than 3 minutes? Yes. Some more options in Stage Editor, god yes. I'm sorry, but the Stage Editor was poorly done(worse than how badly Falcon was nerfed, and THAT'S saying something).

But I digress. I like hacks and all, but I don't want the gameplay to change too much. Small stuff is perfect for me.

 

[IWuvGeno]

I agree with Muba completely.

I think it's also important to note that there is a probably a large percentage of people who might return to Brawl if changes are implemented. The majority of people silly enough to keep playing Brawl the way it is are obviously going to be against altering the code. IMO it is one of the worst games I've played in a while, and I know there is a sizeable population of people who aren't playing it because of this fact.

Just like how Counter-Strike powered up competitive gaming, Brawl's last hope might lie in modification. The only thing left to get around is the hassle involved. If SSB4 was in the foreseeable future, I wouldn't worry about this. Melee was one of the better competitive games out there, and it sorely needs a successor.

 

[link2702]

Well, I stil hold to what I say, making these brawl hacks tourny standard would be a HORRIBLE thing to do, and It really disapoints me that people are trying to do it, if you guys wanna hold "alt" tournies with hacked wiis, fine, but tying to make these hacks tourny standard for brawl is just sad.

 

[Makkun]

To put an end to this...

We are not trying to make Melee 2.0, we are trying to make Brawl 2.0 (Or Brawl+, as we are most likely going to officially call it)

1. To any people who have made, or are currently making the argument "If you want Melee, just go play Melee" - We don't want to play Melee, we want to play Brawl, however Brawl in its current incarnation is not competitively satisfying to us. I personally, still enjoy regular Brawl, but I MUCH prefer Brawl+. Does Melee have new characters, stages, graphics, sound, and most importantly physics? No.

IF WE WANTED MELEE 2.0, WE WOULD BE HACKING MELEE, NOT BRAWL.

2. To all the people moaning and crying about Brawl+ becoming a tournament standard, we all want this to become a tournament alternate, AT MOST. Many people have already stated this.

3. To the people who say that Brawl was programmed as it is for a reason, so official Brawl+ tournaments should not exist, I really hope you have taken people's posts into consideration that talk about Counter-Strike and DOTA, which are two of the most popular competitive games ever created. These started off as variations for Half-Life and Warcraft 3. (Or at least I'm 99% sure it was WC3)

4. To the people who refuse to hack their Wii, or think that it is extremely dangerous and can brick their Wii, IT ISN'T. Stop being skeptical. It's fine if you don't want to hack your Wii, but do not think that it's dangerous. Near the beginning of this thread, somebody quoted a part of my Wii-hacking guide, which told people not to mess with .wad files unless they know what they are doing, as this could be dangerous, let alone illegal. As Falco400 has already explained, using .wad files are completely separate and unrelated to hacking your Wii in order to use Brawl+ codes.

5. Codes can't mess up your Wii. Period. There are codes that may cause data corruption, but there are so many ways to prevent this, it's unbelievable anyone would even consider using this as a point. The Brawl+ codes cannot possibly corrupt your data either way, so this again, is unrelated.

I know a lot of these points have been brought up in the thread, I am just reiterating them so hopefully people will stop arguing and start understanding what the point of hacking Brawl is.