If this is new, we are really, REALLY bad at noticing stuff

[TP]

Aerudo has less RCO lag frames than Dark Dive. Always regrab with Aerudo. I thought this only applied to a ledge-to-stage Aerudo, but it applies to all RCO lag. I estimate that this saves us 4 frames of RCO lag. Every little bit helps.

 

[Zerxion]

I have known this, I think it was in DAD's ledge thread.

 

[Teronist09]

Someone made a thread about this months ago iirc >_>

 

[TP]

Someone made a thread about this months ago iirc >_>

I remember a thread doing this to reduce the lag of your next Aerudo, not all landings, and this is not in Gleam's thread.

 

[Zerxion]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204534 Here's the thread, and it is in the OP.

 

[TP]

That was what I was referring to. This is not in there.

 

[CluelessBTD]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204534 Here's the thread, and it is in the OP.

I posted a couple of threads before that one.

Here is the REAL original
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203668

And then another thing I posted regarding Recovery Lag
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172829

Are either of these what you are talking about?

 

[PK-ow!]

Aerudo has less RCO lag frames than Dark Dive. Always regrab with Aerudo. I thought this only applied to a ledge-to-stage Aerudo, but it applies to all RCO lag. I estimate that this saves us 4 frames of RCO lag. Every little bit helps.

We knew this.

What we need is for someone to confirm it, so that DAD can take my Finite State Automaton specification from the original thread and just put it up in his thread as the explanation.

.... and actually I should be able to confirm this right now, but it's the last thing I can do tonight. I won't have vid proof, just me. I guess I could save a replay, but I don't even own an SD card.
Going to a tourney. ...

 

[TP]

Are either of these what you are talking about?

Here's what was in yours:

...if you use a B move to grab the ledge, everybody knows that you will get 16 frames of lag when you land on the ground next.

Here's mine:

Aerudo has less RCO lag frames than Dark Dive.

That's why I'm posting this.

What we need is for someone to confirm it, so that DAD can take my Finite State Automaton specification from the original thread and just put it up in his thread as the explanation

 

[MoblinMan]

****, but people already expect you to Side B sweet spot the ledge already.



One time I was just fallin past the ledge to sweetspot it with the up B, and like half my opponents go "WHOA SPEEDHUG cuz i kno ur gonna side B LOLOLOLOLOLOL" , and then I electric **** them. :/

 

[Squirrely]

Half of your opponents did it that one time? How many people did you hax into that fight.

Also, I almost never side-b the edge, it's too easy for people to hog it.

 

[B!squick]

I don't know... it IS 4 frames. And if you smell a edge hog just Dark Dive then.

 

[-Mars-]

Has anyone noticed that you can gerudo off of a platform and have very little lag?

 

[MoblinMan]

Half of your opponents did it that one time? How many people did you hax into that fight.

Also, I almost never side-b the edge, it's too easy for people to hog it.

like 9,000

 

[Z1GMA]

Honestly, I didn't know about the 4-frames-difference.

 

[hyperstation]

This needs confirmation. So far the only evidence that this is true is that TP "estimates" about 4 frames less RCO lag. 4 frames (almost 1/20 of a second, mind you) is d*mn hard to estimate as far as I'm concerned, so until someone proves this, I'm not buying into it. Aerial Gerudo regrabbing is not the most consistently safe technique, and I believe we have way better options in things like iDJ -> DAir. I use this all the time now and it covers my *** during RCO lag because the opponent is either bouncing in the air or still in hit stun.

Now, obviously, if this turns out to be true, then great. That means any ledge -> stage aerial can suffer just a little less lag (approx 12 instead of 16 frames).

 

[Ray_Kalm]

This needs confirmation. So far the only evidence that this is true is that TP "estimates" about 4 frames less RCO lag. 4 frames (almost 1/20 of a second, mind you) is d*mn hard to estimate as far as I'm concerned, so until someone proves this, I'm not buying into it. Aerial Gerudo regrabbing is not the most consistently safe technique, and I believe we have way better options in things like iDJ -> DAir. I use this all the time now and it covers my *** during RCO lag because the opponent is either bouncing in the air or still in hit stun.

Now, obviously, if this turns out to be true, then great. That means any ledge -> stage aerial can suffer just a little less lag (approx 12 instead of 16 frames).

I agree...

 

[TP]

You guys want confirmation? Just go to training mode and test it. Don't even bother with 1/4th speed or anything. Just land and hold shield. The difference is visibly noticeable.

Also, I'm glad that this is new after all.

 

[Teronist09]

This needs confirmation. So far the only evidence that this is true is that TP "estimates" about 4 frames less RCO lag. 4 frames (almost 1/20 of a second, mind you) is d*mn hard to estimate as far as I'm concerned, so until someone proves this, I'm not buying into it. Aerial Gerudo regrabbing is not the most consistently safe technique, and I believe we have way better options in things like iDJ -> DAir. I use this all the time now and it covers my *** during RCO lag because the opponent is either bouncing in the air or still in hit stun.

Now, obviously, if this turns out to be true, then great. That means any ledge -> stage aerial can suffer just a little less lag (approx 12 instead of 16 frames).

I can get frame confirmation later tonight.

 

[Hyrus]

If you're saying that an air sideB simply has 4 frames less RCO lag than normal (still lag) with all moves... I doubt it matters. It's still extra lag, and if an enemy is ledgeguarding, you're gonna get hit/grabbed anyway. Normal lag is punishing if you miss as it is.

 

[Teronist09]

If you grab the ledge with up b and ledgedrop to regrab, does the RCO lag stay with you still?

 

[Z1GMA]

If you grab the ledge with up b and ledgedrop to regrab, does the RCO lag stay with you still?

No. (EDIT: I meant Yes)
It sticks with you like a curse..
The next time you land you will suffer it; no matter how you land or which move you used.

Find an effective way to delete the RCO lag, and you'll get a "atta boy" from a certain someone..

 

[Ray_Kalm]

No.
It sticks with you like a curse..
The next time you land you will suffer it; no matter how you land or which move you used.

Yeah, and I've just tested this out, seems like Twilight is right. This may really prove to be useful, people use to punishing Ganon's RCO lag, or even Mario's and Captain Falcon's for the matter (presuming it's the same case for them to), with slow, powerful moves, may be in for a little surprise.

 

[TP]

Yeah, and I've just tested this out, seems like Twilight is right. This may really prove to be useful, people use to punishing Ganon's RCO lag, or even Mario's and Captain Falcon's for the matter (presuming it's the same case for them to), with slow, powerful moves, may be in for a little surprise.

Yay, I was right.

No. (EDIT: I meant Yes)
It sticks with you like a curse..
The next time you land you will suffer it; no matter how you land or which move you used.

Find an effective way to delete the RCO lag, and you'll get a "atta boy" from a certain someone..

In my experimenting, I did find one way to beat RCO lag, but it is worthless. Ledgehop, then land on a platform with an Aerial Wizkick. It has no extra lag on it, but you keep the RCO lag. From there, you can eliminate the RCO lag from there by doing a grounded choke off the platform. As I said, worthless.

 

[hyperstation]

Pretty cool. Add this to the list of techniques/ledge approaches that Ganon mains should be familiar with. This certainly isn't a cure all, and I definitely don't consign to TP's idea that you should always regrab with side B. That would imply that this is always your best option, and I will say that this more often than not is NOT your best option. You have to read your opponents spacing and react accordingly. Sometimes, for instance, a get up attack is the best option. Then once you get your opponent out of range, hop, land, and kill yr RCO.

There are so many options for managing RCO effectively, and there CERTAINLY isn't one "best" option. You have to know how to read your opponents and react.

IMPORTANT EDIT: Killer sig, Z1gma.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Pretty cool. Add this to the list of techniques/ledge approaches that Ganon mains should be familiar with. This certainly isn't a cure all, and I definitely don't consign to TP's idea that you should always regrab with side B. That would imply that this is always your best option, and I will say that this more often than not is NOT your best option. You have to read your opponents spacing and react accordingly. Sometimes, for instance, a get up attack is the best option. Then once you get your opponent out of range, hop, land, and kill yr RCO.

There are so many options for managing RCO effectively, and there CERTAINLY isn't one "best" option. You have to know how to read your opponents and react.

IMPORTANT EDIT: Killer sig, Z1gma.

I'm sure anyone would've figured that out, Dad.

 

[hyperstation]

I'm sure anyone would've figured that out, Dad.

Masses of videos of people playing Ganon and ineffectively managing their RCO say otherwise. Ganons as a whole SUCK at managing their RCO, so I wrote it out plain in black and white. So no, I'd say you shouldn't be so sure that anyone would've figured that out, because months and months after exhaustive RCO write-ups by multiple different members on multiple occasions, people still don't know wtf to do with their lag.

Find an effective way to delete the RCO lag, and you'll get a "atta boy" from a certain someone..

I LOLed.

 

[TP]

Pretty cool. Add this to the list of techniques/ledge approaches that Ganon mains should be familiar with. This certainly isn't a cure all, and I definitely don't consign to TP's idea that you should always regrab with side B. That would imply that this is always your best option, and I will say that this more often than not is NOT your best option. You have to read your opponents spacing and react accordingly. Sometimes, for instance, a get up attack is the best option. Then once you get your opponent out of range, hop, land, and kill yr RCO.

There are so many options for managing RCO effectively, and there CERTAINLY isn't one "best" option. You have to know how to read your opponents and react.

IMPORTANT EDIT: Killer sig, Z1gma.

Sorry, I didn't mean exactly what I put. I agree with you, and I meant that you should only do this when the opponent is far away.

 

[Z1GMA]

IMPORTANT EDIT: Killer sig, Z1gma.

Thx ;]
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤

I just messed around with this and found something interesting (thanks to TP & Clueless)

The RCO lag takes priority of [Aerudo ledgegrab] over [Dark dive ledgegrab]

Example:

Up+b -> ledgegrab = Full RCO lag when landing
side+b -> ledgegrab = -4 lag when landing

Up+b -> ledgegrab -> drop -> side+b -> ledgegrab = -4 lag
side+b -> ledgegrab -> drop -> Up+b -> ledgegrab = still -4 lag

So if the game remembers that you used at least one Aerudo ledgegrab in your whole
recovering-process, it'll automaticly cut the RCO by -4 lag.

EDIT: Oh, and you don't get any RCO lag at all if you grab with Wizkick : D

Aerudo RCO priority >>>> Dark dive RCO priority >>>> Wizkick grab/Normal grab RCO priority

 

[CluelessBTD]

Here's what was in yours:

Here's mine:


That's why I'm posting this.

You didn't even read the whole thing you goof. Here is the next sentence which explains the exact thing that you are saying. Go back to the thread and read the whole thing, I even elaborate on it more.

However, if you grab the ledge using Side-B and then land on the ground from Up-B or Side-B, their original lag is actually notably reduced.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Thx ;]
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤

I just messed around with this and found something interesting (thanks to TP)

The RCO lag takes priority in [Aerudo ledgegrab] over [Dark dive ledgegrab]

Example:

Up+b -> ledgegrab = Full RCO lag when landing
side+b -> ledgegrab = -4 lag when landing

Up+b -> ledgegrab -> drop -> side+b -> ledgegrab = -4 lag
side+b -> ledgegrab -> drop -> Up+b -> ledgegrab = still -4 lag

So if the game remembers that you used at least one Aerudo ledgegrab in your whole
recovering-process, it'll automaticly cut the RCO by -4 lag.

EDIT: Oh, and you don't get any RCO lag at all if you grab with Wizkick : D

Aerudo RCO priority >>>> Dark dive RCO priority >>>> Wizkick grab/Normal grab RCO priority

That's some smart knowledge there, Z1GMA.

 

[TP]

You didn't even read the whole thing you goof. Here is the next sentence which explains the exact thing that you are saying. Go back to the thread and read the whole thing, I even elaborate on it more.

Noooooooooooooo.......

You are talking about getting back on stage using one of the specials. I am talking about jumping back to the stage. I remember when your thread was first made. It was very helpful. This is different.

 

[CluelessBTD]

Noooooooooooooo.......

You are talking about getting back on stage using one of the specials. I am talking about jumping back to the stage. I remember when your thread was first made. It was very helpful. This is different.

Sounds like the same concept to me. I don't know I guess.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Sounds like the same concept to me. I don't know I guess.

It's quite different actually.

To summarize what you found out:
Originally, grabbing the ledge with Dark Dive would cause the original 16 frames of RCO lag. But, grabbing the ledge with Aerudo, and even re-grabbing the ledge with Aerudo, would cause the original lag of "ANOTHER" Aerudo or Dark Dive to be reduced.

To summarize what Twilight found out:
Re-grabbing/grabbing the ledge with Aerudo would cause the lag of RCO itself to be reduced.

You actually found this concept out first, but didn't know (or explained) it to us properly. It was hiding in your discovery. If grabbing the ledge with Aerudo reduced the lag from a Aerudo and Dark Dive on stage, it obviously would've reduced the RCO lag itself, from any other moves.

So, in conculsion, we were all dumb enough to not figure this out when you informed us.

 

[PK-ow!]

**** it. Everyone beat me to the testing.
Well, to the posting. I really tested right after that other post but didn't come back on.

Lame.


What amazes me is that you actually improve your situation going to a Gerudo ledgegrab rather than just grabbing the ledge.
Again, I must wonder, what data is being shipped internally that could make this happen. Is it a "-4" internally... or is it a reference to a constant?

Somewhere, in knowing what the mechanics are, the trick to beating it may exist.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hmmm, one more reason to edgecamp with Forward-B. Sorta.

 

[@HomE]

Hmmm, one more reason to edgecamp with Forward-B. Sorta.

I dont know how many Epic fails i have trying to re-grabing the ledge a couple times with Side-B and end up costing myself a stock...

but then again.. I suck, haha

 

[Squirrely]

I wouldn't say not noticing a 4 frames (1/15th of a second) difference qualifies anyone as "really, REALLY bad at noticing stuff."

And maybe I'm just too nooby of a ganon but RCO lag has never once factored into my gameplay.
My only playing online might be a factor since everything is lagged anyways.

Anyways, reducing four frames of lag seems like a risky trade-off for re-choking a ledge. I've been gimped, spiked, and otherwise killed too many times doing that.

Interesting find but I don't think it'll affect me ever >.>

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I wouldn't say not noticing a 4 frames (1/15th of a second) difference qualifies anyone as "really, REALLY bad at noticing stuff."

And maybe I'm just too nooby of a ganon but RCO lag has never once factored into my gameplay.
My only playing online might be a factor since everything is lagged anyways.

Anyways, reducing four frames of lag seems like a risky trade-off for re-choking a ledge. I've been gimped, spiked, and otherwise killed too many times doing that.

Interesting find but I don't think it'll affect me ever >.>

It doesn't seem risky at all, if you ask me. If the opponent interferes, while you're re-choking the ledge, it'll just result in a Ganoncide. So you might want to peek at your HP before using this method.

and..at RCO never factoring into your game play..just a small "wow".

 

[TP]

Uhhh.... Squirrely? In my games with you I think I killed you once because I knew you were carrying RCO lag, so I just sat there charging an Fsmash and you went right in front of me expecting to block it but couldn't. It is definitely something to look out for.