If this is new, we are really, REALLY bad at noticing stuff

[Squirrely]

I wouldn't doubt that I've been killed or punished numerous times due to RCO lag.
But I don't think I'm at the point where I'd notice it if these things happened less if I suddenly cared about the RCO. I think I need a lot more offline experience before I could tell the difference between normal lag and RCO lag. Or is it more online experience. I don't know.

My understanding of the matter is a bit limited and the description of the RCO lag in the stickied thread is a bit odd to me.

"RCO Lag: Recovery Carryover Lag is the extra lag you get after sweetspotting the ledge with either your UpB or Gerudo. The lag is about 16 frames and activates whenever you land. Aerial wizkick into the ground will not get rid of it. The only way to get rid of it is to use it or land another aerial. Be wary when you have this because it will start to become more annoying the better you get."

Does this lag only apply when you try to pull up a shield? Or is it 16 frames before you can do anything upon landing on the stage, excluding, I'm assuming, walking and running. Does it affect jumping?

The blurb on getting rid of it ("...use it or land another aerial.") slightly confuses me. What was the first aerial I landed? The up-b/side-b to the ledge? Do I have to land it on the ledge again or on a player or just on empty space?

Maybe I'm greatly over-thinking this.

 

[B!squick]

I wouldn't doubt that I've been killed or punished numerous times due to RCO lag.
But I don't think I'm at the point where I'd notice it if these things happened less if I suddenly cared about the RCO. I think I need a lot more offline experience before I could tell the difference between normal lag and RCO lag. Or is it more online experience. I don't know.

My understanding of the matter is a bit limited and the description of the RCO lag in the stickied thread is a bit odd to me.

"RCO Lag: Recovery Carryover Lag is the extra lag you get after sweetspotting the ledge with either your UpB or Gerudo. The lag is about 16 frames and activates whenever you land. Aerial wizkick into the ground will not get rid of it. The only way to get rid of it is to use it or land another aerial. Be wary when you have this because it will start to become more annoying the better you get."

Does this lag only apply when you try to pull up a shield? Or is it 16 frames before you can do anything upon landing on the stage, excluding, I'm assuming, walking and running. Does it affect jumping?

The blurb on getting rid of it ("...use it or land another aerial.") slightly confuses me. What was the first aerial I landed? The up-b/side-b to the ledge? Do I have to land it on the ledge again or on a player or just on empty space?

Maybe I'm greatly over-thinking this.

Don't feel bad. I thought I at least somewhat understood it too, but that description you provided just leaves me more confused like yourself. I think someone explained it too me once, but of course, I only remember that I think someone explained it.

 

[TP]

I wouldn't doubt that I've been killed or punished numerous times due to RCO lag.
But I don't think I'm at the point where I'd notice it if these things happened less if I suddenly cared about the RCO. I think I need a lot more offline experience before I could tell the difference between normal lag and RCO lag. Or is it more online experience. I don't know.

My understanding of the matter is a bit limited and the description of the RCO lag in the stickied thread is a bit odd to me.

"RCO Lag: Recovery Carryover Lag is the extra lag you get after sweetspotting the ledge with either your UpB or Gerudo. The lag is about 16 frames and activates whenever you land. Aerial wizkick into the ground will not get rid of it. The only way to get rid of it is to use it or land another aerial. Be wary when you have this because it will start to become more annoying the better you get."

Does this lag only apply when you try to pull up a shield? Or is it 16 frames before you can do anything upon landing on the stage, excluding, I'm assuming, walking and running. Does it affect jumping?

The blurb on getting rid of it ("...use it or land another aerial.") slightly confuses me. What was the first aerial I landed? The up-b/side-b to the ledge? Do I have to land it on the ledge again or on a player or just on empty space?

Maybe I'm greatly over-thinking this.

If you have the RCO lag, then you will be forced to do NOTHING (not even walk) for 16 frames next time you land. You get the RCO lag when you grab the ledge with one of our specials. If you just get up from the ledge normally or with a ledge attack, you will keep the lag with you. If you jump to get to the stage or ledge hop, the lag will be deployed next time you land. Either way, you are forced to have 16 (or 12 now) frames in which you are completely vulnerable.

Maybe someone should make a video explaining everything, because there is no easy way to explain it with words.

 

[Squirrely]

Does this only apply to ganon?
And there's no way to get rid of it besides letting it ride out?
What about the landing of more aerials indicated in the mini-guide.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Does this only apply to ganon?

No, this also applies to Mario and Captain Falcon as well.

And there's no way to get rid of it besides letting it ride out?
What about the landing of more aerials indicated in the mini-guide.

Yes, there's no way to get rid of it besides letting it out OR replacing it with a laggy aerial.

 

[KRiMz0N]

wow, why do you ganon mains have such cool names for all your techs...

 

[Zerxion]

Does anyone know how much lag you get with shorthop RCO? It seems to be the same with side and upb.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

So basically always grab the ledge with an Aerudo no matter what?

Thanks for the tip, I never knew that. :D

 

[Z1GMA]

I soo wish Ganon could pass over the RCO lag to his opponent.. lulz
Planting a little surprise on them ^^

Oh!! wait! Maybe he can... With a Gerudo! *Runs to wii*

.

.

.

>_>'

 

[PK-ow!]

I soo wish Ganon could pass over the RCO lag to his opponent.. lulz
Planting a little surprise on them ^^

Oh!! wait! Maybe he can... With a Gerudo! *Runs to wii*

.

.

.

>_>'

..... actually.... that would be a cool game mechanic.

Try this: Intercept an opponent's up-B, like Falcon's. Then see if they have RCO on their next jump.

Try it on Ganon and Mario too.

 

[:034:]

ಠ__ಠ

c'mon, really?

 

[Z1GMA]

Try this: Intercept an opponent's up-B, like Falcon's. Then see if they have RCO on their next jump.

Have you tried it?

 

[stRIP]

Sry for this rly fkin stupid question but

what is RCO lag? q.q

 

[Luigi player]

"RCO Lag: Recovery Carryover Lag is the extra lag you get after sweetspotting the ledge with either your UpB or Gerudo. The lag is about 16 frames and activates whenever you land. Aerial wizkick into the ground will not get rid of it. The only way to get rid of it is to use it or land another aerial. Be wary when you have this because it will start to become more annoying the better you get."

 

[PK-ow!]

Have you tried it?

No. I don't think it's happened accidentally, either, since I don't intercept Up-Bs above the stage often.

Also, I don't have my Wii. For long stretches of time with little bits sprinkled in the middle, since I'm at university where somehow NO ONE ****ING PLAYS THIS GAME OTHER THAN ME.

I go into tournaments four weeks cold or colder from a controller having been in my hands (and plugged in at the other end). I basically live off gameplay videos.
Actually, when I think about it, I'm pretty **** technically consistent for these conditions.

. . . I'm in god**** Toronto. WTF?

[/vent]

Oh, so also, add to the testing the case where the target sweetspots, then uses ledgejump, and then you Murder Choke them. Basically, see if hitting the ground like that "doesn't count" the way Wizard kick doesn't.

Alternatively, see if their lag on being slammed into the ground increases. <<<<< Holy ****, this.

EDIT: Come on guys, if you think this is desperate, consider our role as the mains of as-yet G-tier Ganon. High-tiers develop a meta in an intriguing dynamical system involving yomi and mindgames and ****. The low tiers meanwhile are the ones most motivated to seek out truly unknown aspects of the system.

Call it a division of labour.

 

[MoblinMan]

Well I dunno if I have the patience for that, but I hate RCO lag.

it has resulted in many many deaths.

All my friends know it exists and punishes me for it EVERY time.

I'm glad most people don't know about it/activly exploit in tournaments. G tier FTW?

booya, I'm on a posting roll lulz. These boards are dead

 

[hyperstation]

Well I dunno if I have the patience for that, but I hate RCO lag.

it has resulted in many many deaths.

All my friends know it exists and punishes me for it EVERY time.

I'm glad most people don't know about it/activly exploit in tournaments. G tier FTW?

booya, I'm on a posting roll lulz. These boards are dead

Your friends should not be killing you due to RCO lag. In fact, no one should. yes, there are certain situations into which you will put yourself that will give you little to no chance of escaping punishment of your RCO. HOWEVER, most times you should have managed it correctly with one of the seemingly endless ledge->stage options that Ganon has, thusly essentially negating the RCO lag. If it means you have to plank for a little while to get your opponent to the spacing you want, then f*cking plank. Managing RCO is not hard, you just have to know all your options.

 

[MoblinMan]

I meant they punish me for it every time that it's applicable. which is whenever I use the ledge jump option, or the next time I thunder stomp after just using the standard get-up/ get-up and attack animations.


I plank all the time.

 

[hyperstation]

I meant they punish me for it every time that it's applicable. which is whenever I use the ledge jump option, or the next time I thunder stomp after just using the standard get-up/ get-up and attack animations.


I plank all the time.

Change up your ledge jumping, and they'll pay...If you haven't seen my iDJ video, watch it. If you have seen it...watch it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5P8jyCvT4A&feature=channel_page

 

[Z1GMA]

Ledge hop airdodge -> Stage, or Flipman, gets rid of the RCO pretty effectively.
But don't use it too often. Be unpredictable!

 

[MoblinMan]

Wow I didn't realize Ganon could do that, actually!

I must have missed it when I went over swoops' guide >.>

Flipman???

nvm. Tell me what it is and I'll try to get some recordings of me at the tournament so you guys can tell me why I suck. yeyesyesyes

 

[hyperstation]

Wow I didn't realize Ganon could do that, actually!

I must have missed it when I went over swoops' guide >.>

Flipman???

nvm. Tell me what it is and I'll try to get some recordings of me at the tournament so you guys can tell me why I suck. yeyesyesyes

If this comment is directed towards me, the reason you didn't notice it in Swoops' guide is because it was in DAD's Smash Lab. Specifically you should be abusing iDJ -> DAir if your opponent dares to come within that correct range. It's so nice. GIves 23% and bounces your opponent out of range while your RCO clears. iDJ -> BAir and FF UAir are also good, but more risky. They both push yr opponent towards the ledge into a ledge grab, but if you miss, you have the UAir landing lag as well as the RCO lag. Also, if your opponent is giving you enough space, a simple ledgedrop->airdodge onto stage works wonders. Then just get your shield up as soon as possible (16 frames to be exact...12 if you regrab with aerudo) and you're in business.

I really need to do an RCO write-up or something. It's not complicated, there's just so many options for covering yr a$s.

 

[x_Deity_x]

Deity isn't familiar with the abbreviation so he's only double-checking. RCO lag is that nasty lag Ganon gets if he uses UpB or SideB to grab the ledge, that affects his next aerial landing, right?

Or is that something else?

 

[TP]

Deity isn't familiar with the abbreviation so he's only double-checking. RCO lag is that nasty lag Ganon gets if he uses UpB or SideB to grab the ledge, that affects his next aerial landing, right?

Or is that something else?

That is correct. RCO means "Recovery Carry Over."

DAD, maybe you should make a video. That way, we can just post the link every time someone asks what RCO lag is instead of giving a long and confusing explanation.

 

[x_Deity_x]

Figured.

Deity's not too often put into a position where RCO lag hurts him. Then again he's also made a habit of doing a SH->shield after his recovery as long as his opponent isn't right there. That uses up the RCO lag without endangering his offense or his defense~

 

[hyperstation]

Figured.

Deity's not too often put into a position where RCO lag hurts him. Then again he's also made a habit of doing a SH->shield after his recovery as long as his opponent isn't right there. That uses up the RCO lag without endangering his offense or his defense~

No, you're wrong. Regarding the bold part in the quote above, I have no idea what gave you that idea. SH -> Shield is actually SH -> 16 frames of lag -> Shield. Plus shield takes a few frames to come out.

The only reason "Deity" isn't often put into a position where RCO lag hurts "him" is because your opponents aren't playing well. RCO lag is a basic game mechanic that was discovered soon after Brawl's release. It affects a select few characters with whom most players are familiar. If you're short hopping onto the stage and not getting punished for it, it's not because you're putting up your shield. It's because your opponent is unaware of your vulnerability or your spacing is such that you're able to kill yr RCO safely.

...A video seems necessary, TP, but I don't know when I'd be able to do it. I've obviously been a little more disconnected from SWF recently than I have in the past due to other obligations. I'll think on it, though.

 

[x_Deity_x]

Figured.

Deity's not too often put into a position where RCO lag hurts him. Then again he's also made a habit of doing a SH->shield after his recovery as long as his opponent isn't right there. That uses up the RCO lag without endangering his offense or his defense~

--which is why he included the bolded in the above quote. If Deity's opponents know about RCO lag they either don't capitalize or simply never mentioned it. =P

Besides, he said that he uses SH->Shield only if he has the time to - for instance, when his opponent is respawning after getting KOed near the ledge. It uses the RCO lag during a harmless moment as opposed to when he really needs to be shielding an attack.

You didn't tell Deity anything he didn't know already; you probably just misundertsood what he was getting at~

 

[hyperstation]

--which is why he included the bolded in the above quote. If Deity's opponents know about RCO lag they either don't capitalize or simply never mentioned it. =P

Besides, he said that he uses SH->Shield only if he has the time to - for instance, when his opponent is respawning after getting KOed near the ledge. It uses the RCO lag during a harmless moment as opposed to when he really needs to be shielding an attack.

You didn't tell Deity anything he didn't know already; you probably just misundertsood what he was getting at~

If you wrote normally instead of in third person, it would be easier to understand you.

 

[x_Deity_x]

Good to know~

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Good to know~

Good to know? Mind being more clear with all your posts?

 

[x_Deity_x]

@Ray_Kalm: Deity doesn't feel the need to quote somebody if nobody has posted after the person he'd otherwise be quoting. =O

He was responding to DAD (that's his handle, right?). Deity has nothing to say anymore about anyone's opinions of how he writes, but he felt ignoring the post would be rather rude~