If Brawl Doesnt get Competitive

[Mic_128]

Or maybe they just like Brawl and relish the fact that we have a new game to play for a good number of years instead of playing the same game for another 6-7 years.

 

[Zema]

Melee WILL die. No games last forever, and that goes for Brawl. No matter how competitive it was, it will NEVER stay alive for a (very) long time.

We had a long time, and should be greatful for that.

People need to move on to Brawl and find out new techniques which will make it more competitive instead of whining over which game is better..

 

[BlackPanther]

Or maybe they just like Brawl and relish the fact that we have a new game to play for a good number of years instead of playing the same game for another 6-7 years.

Nope, it's definitely 'cause they want a shot at fame.

 

[FalconPunch]

Or because it's easier.

 

[BlackPanther]

Or because it's easier.

That too lol =).

 

[Tyr_03]

Brawl blows. The only reason I ever play it is because no one around me seems to be playing Melee competitively at all. But since it takes all of about a week to learn Brawl I figure I'll hit a few tournaments with it anyway. Hopefully sooner or later people will realize Brawl's inferiority and return to Melee. Maybe with a new crowd even. *prays*

 

[Zema]

Brawl is bad because no one wants to discover cool new techniques.

Who knows? Maybe there might be another way to wavedash that you guys havent discovered in brawl. Melee was like this to begin with- No one knew about wavedashing, l-cancelling or shffling.

Stop making the game seem worse than it isn't.

 

[Reese]

Brawl is bad because no one wants to discover cool new techniques.

Who knows? Maybe there might be another way to wavedash that you guys havent discovered in brawl. Melee was like this to begin with- No one knew about wavedashing, l-cancelling or shffling.

Stop making the game seem worse than it isn't.

Actually L-cancelling was in smash 64 too, and I am guessing people discovered L-cancelling was in melee right after they purchased it.

 

[Snakeyes]

I'm pretty sure a fair number of people who went from 64 to SSBM knew about l-canceling, at least indirectly. I discovered that Link's Dair could be canceled back in the first game and began using this in SSBM as soon as I started playing it. Of course, I only used it to chase an opponent more effectively, and wasn't able to exploit the tech's full potential until much later, when I randomly stumbled on a page full of tourney vids.

Of course, new stuff could be discovered in Brawl in the future, but keep in mind that this time we have the efforts of a huge community (that has experience with the past titles) that was already frantically hunting for techs since the japanese release. Under these conditions, discovering gamebreaking techs should take MUCH less time than during the 64-SSBM jump. I still haven't seen anything promising yet (besides better chaingrabbing tactics, oh joy!).

 

[leafgreen386]

Stop making the game seem worse than it isn't.

So we're making it sound better than it is? Eh, probably true.

And people playing brawl are desperately looking for new techs. Don't kid yourself. They're just not finding anything. To suggest a competitive player wouldn't want to find "cool new techniques" has got to be some of the most backwards logic I've heard on these boards.

 

[Zema]

So we're making it sound better than it is? Eh, probably true.

And people playing brawl are desperately looking for new techs. Don't kid yourself. They're just not finding anything. To suggest a competitive player wouldn't want to find "cool new techniques" has got to be some of the most backwards logic I've heard on these boards.

Most techniques in melee took years to find -.-

 

[NES n00b]

Most techniques in melee took years to find -.-

The game was made so that it would be as simple as possible to play. Not only that, it was designed so that it would be restrictive as possible in what players could find. How to stop combos? Make it so there is no hitstun so it is impossible. How to stop broken sheild pressuring tatics? Make it so sheild is godly. It is obvious they wanted to dumb down the game and make it so nobody can find anything. Everyday, the new things found are either a. Useless or b. Make the game gayer.

I also say Brawl was shoddly programmed and horribly play tested. Especially for a game that had lots of development time. Marth infinite on Lucas and Ness and Dedede chaingrabs on lots of characters including infinites? How could anyone miss those? All the various glitches that are in the game but do not make it more fun at least usually don't get in the way, but man does it make the game even worse.

Come back to me when the game becomes magically better by wizards. Only way I can see the game becoming good.

 

[leafgreen386]

Come back to me when the game becomes magically better by wizards. Only way I can see the game becoming good.

Wizards: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165363

 

[Zema]

The game was made so that it would be as simple as possible to play. Not only that, it was designed so that it would be restrictive as possible in what players could find. How to stop combos? Make it so there is no hitstun so it is impossible. How to stop broken sheild pressuring tatics? Make it so sheild is godly. It is obvious they wanted to dumb down the game and make it so nobody can find anything. Everyday, the new things found are either a. Useless or b. Make the game gayer.

I also say Brawl was shoddly programmed and horribly play tested. Especially for a game that had lots of development time. Marth infinite on Lucas and Ness and Dedede chaingrabs on lots of characters including infinites? How could anyone miss those? All the various glitches that are in the game but do not make it more fun at least usually don't get in the way, but man does it make the game even worse.

Come back to me when the game becomes magically better by wizards. Only way I can see the game becoming good.

You are so negative. Besides, Melee had a bunch of 'gay' descoveries as well.

If you think that there won't be techniques that Melee didnt have, you sir are wrong on all scales.

 

[TheGlitchMaster]

i play brawl...Why?
because i win....in....it.

 

[BlackPanther]

Most techniques in melee took years to find -.-

You know why it took years? Because noone gave a rats *** about Melee starting out. When Brawl came out everyone was anxious to look for new at's to find. Melee didn't have that but once people started caring more, then at's were being discovered left and right, why can't people understand that? What you see in Brawl right now is what you're gonna get in the future there's no escapin it. If you like what you see now then good for you keep playin, but if you want change don't expect it later because that's how shallow the game is.

 

[TheGlitchMaster]

wow....people are mad at a game...
look people, Brawl might not be the perfect game with the perfect chacters!
heck, who cares about Jiggly anymore?

 

[Ørion]

People should honestly give brawl more of a chance. Personally, I think that it is partly a psychological thing. You knew about tripping, and that there was no more wavedashing and l canceling, so you went in with an attitude that you would not like it nearly as much. Guess what? you do not like it as much. Wavedashing took years to find, and you seemed keen to play melee even without that. Why so dead set against brawl? Give it some time for the meta-game to develop, let people find new advanced techniques (by the way, there are already many discovered, just not any as game-changing as wavedashing as of yet) and get used to it, play more, and if in a year or so you still hate it, then don't play it.

 

[BlackPanther]

Just to let you know, most of us here can play without wavedashing and l canceling, those two weren't just the only things that made up Melee. Only dumb people use those two to try to get into people heads thinkin that's the ONLY reason they played Melee. But just to let you know again, I would rather play with l canceling and wavedashing because it opened up a lot more opportunities rather than just rolling around on the ground or a gay dash dance that might trip you flailin around in the air like some pixie. I gave Brawl a chance, a good solid month and I didn't play Melee at all. For that whole month I knew everything there is to know about the game(everything that matters). I was whoopin on my friend who would jack me in Melee for the most part so when I won in Brawl i wasn't satisfied because I knew that there wasn't as much skill involved. And on top of that all the tech skill I worked so hard for in Melee was gone. Do you understand how ****in dumb that is, no you do not. I'd much rather put work into somethin that to just have it or have it spoon fed to me that's just me though, I do not have to do the same thing with Brawl my grandma with arthritis can pick up the game and still have a chance at beating me. Sakurai did what he could to put us competitors on the same level with casuals and for the most part it worked, do you not understand how dumb that is? Casuals are casuals for a reason and competitors are competitors for a reason and that enough is a reason for me not to play a game with a motive like that backing it up. Plus I'm not down for sucking **** like everyone else is doin with Brawl. Brawl's probably got a 20 inch ***** now from all the swelling and suction and whatnot.

 

[NES n00b]

LOL that made me laugh.

BlackPanther, friendlies at GA? ^_^

PS. I gave it a chance. There were times I thought it was getting better at some points, but they were very short lived. The game is actually getting worse by the day.

 

[BIG C]

Melee WILL die. No games last forever, and that goes for Brawl. No matter how competitive it was, it will NEVER stay alive for a (very) long time.

We had a long time, and should be greatful for that.

People need to move on to Brawl and find out new techniques which will make it more competitive instead of whining over which game is better..

um street fighter 2 ur argument is done

 

[BlackPanther]

LOL that made me laugh.

BlackPanther, friendlies at GA? ^_^

PS. I gave it a chance. There were times I thought it was getting better at some points, but they were very short lived. The game is actually getting worse by the day.

Lol I felt the same way. That month I played Brawl I really got into it since it is Smash, but the more I played it, the more I realized how much of a travesty it is compared to the other Smash titles. But **** yeah I'm down for some friendlies, what about a mm lolz =)?

Edit:

um street fighter 2 ur argument is done

Quoted for truth.

 

[pupuduh]

Melee is cool.

 

[Wind Owl]

Wizards: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165363

Holy **** that's awesome.

 

[Superstar]

I never played Melee competitively and I know that Melee > Brawl. Of course, I did want to play Melee competitively and practiced it against my little brother, him working at improving as well, but I couldn't go to a tournament due to my age/restrictions so I had to wait for Brawl, and I was more or less disappointed. I actually don't really care about any of the techs in Melee anymore, I just want my precious hitstun back. I want more than Fox's drill 2 hit comboing.

I just recently played Melee again. At first its unsettling and Brawl looks better at first due to the coating, but once you play it the game grows back on you. The feel of combos is just too good. I really hope the tournament scene stays more or less active, once I'm able to drive I'd like to finally attend one. I should really be studying for my license. I want to get throughtly ***** rather than the crap of often having like a 50% shot at winning. Most matches are too close for my liking in Brawl.

I still play Brawl, but that's because I have nothing else to play. I don't fully hate the game yet, its mildly pleasurable, but I know that once I enter a Brawl tournament I'll be pissed, I'll have gone over the top. At least I know of some holes in my playstyle so I'm not done with the game yet, but I'm closing in to the point where there is nothing more to learn. Maybe the fact that I wasn't big in Melee means I'm not seeing the downsides of Brawl as quickly.

The Gecko thing looks purty, I'd dig that.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

There have been other fighting franchises that have stuck with older games besides Street Fighter too. I believe that Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 is still the most played MK game competetively and there have been about 6 or 7 new games since then. If the community wills it then Melee can become standard again. Sadly though, I don't see that happening.

The reason is that Smash has always been noob friendly, not in the sense that its easy and they can just jump in, but because its a friendly little nintendo game. Most people who started playing melee started it for fun as kids, so they could watch Mario fight Link. They evolved into competetive players from that. This is what prevents new players from coming into Melee, because they can have that same experience in Brawl. So really smash might not get that same chance SF and MK did.

However, I would like to see it happen as it is a much better game. I have spent quite a bit of time on Brawl, and while I do find it fun, it just isn't competetive. I tried out a lot of characters trying to find a main, and in the end I just decided I didn't like any of them. Sure some of them are fun, but they lack the skill requirements of my favorite Melee characters.

So anyway, I don't see Melee coming back into standard, but I would say it will at least "hang around" for quite a while longer though. Regardless of what happens though, you can believe that if there is a Melee tourney anywhere in Kentucky I'll be the first person in line.

 

[Tyr_03]

I wish I could believe that that USB Gecko thing actually could become the standard for Brawl but I seriously doubt that it ever will. It's too much work. Would mean that anyone who wanted to play competitively would have to buy one and set it to the proper settings just to practice. Yeah it'd be cool and all but I doubt the majority of people would be willing to go through that much trouble.

Either way Melee is going to be better if you ask me. It's just a wonderfully made game. And even if the competitive scene does die down I'll still play it with my friends because it's just plain more fun.

 

[orintemple]

I wish I could believe that that USB Gecko thing actually could become the standard for Brawl but I seriously doubt that it ever will. It's too much work. Would mean that anyone who wanted to play competitively would have to buy one and set it to the proper settings just to practice. Yeah it'd be cool and all but I doubt the majority of people would be willing to go through that much trouble.

Either way Melee is going to be better if you ask me. It's just a wonderfully made game. And even if the competitive scene does die down I'll still play it with my friends because it's just plain more fun.

Yea I agree that USB Gecko thing seems too complicated. It would make the competitive scene pretty small, to HAVE to buy an attachment for Brawl just to play it "correctly". I am not sure most people would be up for that.

 

[Fletch]

Yea I agree that USB Gecko thing seems too complicated. It would make the competitive scene pretty small, to HAVE to buy an attachment for Brawl just to play it "correctly". I am not sure most people would be up for that.

If it makes this game tolerable? I'd certainly spend the money on it, I'm sure plenty of others would as well. I mean, with all the traveling and money spent on tournaments throughout the years, you really think competitive players won't pay a little extra for a peripheral that could give Brawl infinitely more competitive value?

 

[Tyr_03]

lol wouldn't it be easier to just go back to Melee?

Either way it's going to be a long time before the settings could be perfected. It's basically creating an entirely new game. Even small errors in hitstun or lag cancels could drastically effect the balance and make it worthless. I'd love it if it worked it just seems pretty unrealistic to hope for them to basically recreate the game and then expect everyone to buy it all over again.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

That usb gecko started a flame war only I could top in the brawl forums.

 

[Zema]

You know why it took years? Because noone gave a rats *** about Melee starting out. When Brawl came out everyone was anxious to look for new at's to find. Melee didn't have that but once people started caring more, then at's were being discovered left and right, why can't people understand that? What you see in Brawl right now is what you're gonna get in the future there's no escapin it. If you like what you see now then good for you keep playin, but if you want change don't expect it later because that's how shallow the game is.

Answer me this question: Who in the HELL jumps low and air-dodges onto the ground to discover a technique?

You dont know what Brawl's future holds, so stop thinking you do. It might be like this after two years, but then again it might turn out to be more competitive than Melee. Only time will tell.

And don't say brawl hasn't got the slightest chance of becoming competitive.

 

[BlueBlood]

For all the arguing thats been done i sure have hear alot of "Brawl isnt EXACTLY the same as melee so i dont like it". So i guess giving the game more time is out of the question then? Dont get me wrong i love melee and im always up for it but demanding stuff to be found out within a few months seems a little much. This is just like how alot of peeps complained about bxr and bxb being taken out of halo. I guess some people just cant ADAPT.

 

[KosukeKGA]

For all the arguing thats been done i sure have hear alot of "Brawl isnt EXACTLY the same as melee so i dont like it". So i guess giving the game more time is out of the question then? Dont get me wrong i love melee and im always up for it but demanding stuff to be found out within a few months seems a little much. This is just like how alot of peeps complained about bxr and bxb being taken out of halo. I guess some people just cant ADAPT.

 

[BlackPanther]

Answer me this question: Who in the HELL jumps low and air-dodges onto the ground to discover a technique?

You dont know what Brawl's future holds, so stop thinking you do. It might be like this after two years, but then again it might turn out to be more competitive than Melee. Only time will tell.

And don't say brawl hasn't got the slightest chance of becoming competitive.

I do know what the future holds, it's heartache and pain. Don't be a ****ing idiot, the physics and the way the game has been built as a whole has severely limited our chances of anything exploitable or cool to be found, that's just the way it is stop suckin so much of Brawl's ****. ****ing losers have been workin on this game day and night to find somethin cool to exploit but it hasn't happened yet and it won't because what you see is what you get. Stop tryin to force every ****in thing to be competitive, that's like tryin to build up a blow job competitive scene just because someone thinks there's a few tricks to doin it. A slower and more shallow game does not appeal to me in anyway, shape, or form I'd rather work for my skill thank you.

 

[SmashBrosKing1987]

I still think SSBM is a lot more competitive in my oppinion than Brawl for many reasons is Brawl is not like melee and the characters r somewhat different.

 

[BIG C]

ROFL I love how people use adapt in the brawl vs melee adapt thing trust me melee players know what they are doing in Brawl. We just don't see it going anywhere the tech's needed to break the game have been trying to be found out since the game came out. Guess what no one has found any and we're talking like at least 3/4 of the ppl playing now on this site are probably looking for them.

It's not adapting it's just Melee was and more than likely will stay better than Brawl in the competitive aspect. People want a pretty big skill gap room for improvement because without room for vast improvement in their game it loses pretty much all replay value and reason for going to tournaments. I only play about once every week or two for Brawl but, Tink plays a good amount more than me along with our other friend and everytime I play them I still do the same stuff and get the same results. Meaning that they played and didn't improve much or at all.

Basically Brawl = a get used to the engine game as Melee was a get good at the game game. Once I got used ot movement with the chars and whatnot the game was incredibly easy and shallow. I play snake mostly and all I do is walk/run around and sheild, snakedash, upsmash, and tilts I tell people my strat all the time but guess what there isn't much you can do to it. That's pretty much what all the snake's that are winning tournies do look at DSF he uses nair and bair too i throw those in there along with C4 but it's still a real basic strat that completely works against people who know what they are doing.

This makes the game shallow the basicness of it all. Everyone seems to think you have to think of amazing strats in Brawl or something and it's just not that true you can watch any major tournament video and it's gonna be hit your opponent reset unless it's a metaknight because metaknight likes to try and follow up. Almost every other char is too slow or lacks a move to do this metaknight seems to be the only one to be able to sttempt it.

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Meta-Knight and Mario are the only decent ones I like playing.
Pretty much just spacing and fast-falling and a much more standerd combo.

 

[The Executive]

I personally won't go back to Melee full-time, but I like to switch it up every now and then. There's only so much trash talk you can take from people who you trashed in Melee who can now take gimp stocks in Brawl to their hearts' content.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Melee will die, its only a question of how long it will take. Think about it...

If brawl competitively goes sour, most people that have been playing brawl(people like Chu, Chillin, Cort, Hugs) aren't coming back. They have just been around for so long that if brawl doesn't hold their interest, they most likely won't regain interest in a game they left. The reason many of them left was they felt they hit a ceiling on their game, and brawl is not yet limited.

If brawl fails, they aren't coming back. But that isn't the real problem at all. The problem is on the other side of the spectrum. Brawl makes it virtually impossible to get new people to start playing melee. Without newbs, tournaments have fewer players to build the pot. Without a decent pot size, high level players are unmotivated to travel. Less travel means even fewer players for tournaments. Without tournaments, players don't play competitively, and the game does not progress.

You get the point. Eventually, melee will burn itself out, regardless of how good this game is. Its inevitable. The question is how long do we really have. I figure melee has a year left, 2 at best.

Time to face the music.

unfortunetly I have to agree with this guy, because it doesn't matter how good Melee is over Brawl, overtime Melee will go downhill and soon tourny's will will die out