Idaho's Ban on Metaknight

[Tbagz]

10amazingmks

 

[Nic64]

lmfao at the OOS rule, and I thought I lived in the *** backwards land of no tournament significance, at least I'm not in Idaho -_-

 

[SothE700k]

Scratch being a dictatorship, Idaho is now the new Confederate States of America! Led by Jefferson Davis himself!

UNION! WE MUST SQUASH THE TRAITOROUS *******S! CALL GRANT AND LINCOLN!

 

[Crizthakidd]

lol so what guys they still have snake, falco, ddd, get good with them instead.

but you will NOT win anything OOS like that. still at least they wanna try and experiment so no flames

 

[ndayday]

Good job Idaho players, the only thing left to see is how it will turn out. If it works wonderfully, then all these players will be sorry they ever said anything against it. If not, then that just justifies whatever has been said.

(666th post)

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Good job Idaho players, the only thing left to see is how it will turn out. If it works wonderfully, then all these players will be sorry they ever said anything against it. If not, then that just justifies whatever has been said.

(666th post)

Not only will this "experiment" suffer from an exorbitant amount of confirmation bias, but if people sill think Brawl is fun with MK banned that wouldn't prove anything. If "to make the game more fun" is your only criterion for determining if we should have a rule or not (which your argument ostensibly is), then you just get people arguing over whose "fun" is "better." That's why rules are designed to make a game competitive, and to test skills, which is certainly less subjective than "fun."

 

[Johnny Pteran]

Doesn't this kind of say something about MetaKnight though?

If a state and its residents don't use MetaKnight, everyone's saying they're going to get *****.

... Doesn't that mean MetaKnight is, in fact, broken? According to everyones' logic.

 

[scarykid78]

I like how every once in a while we get someone who is like NICE JOB GUYZ!

woot.

 

[Nic64]

Doesn't this kind of say something about MetaKnight though?

If a state and its residents don't use MetaKnight, everyone's saying they're going to get *****.

... Doesn't that mean MetaKnight is, in fact, broken? According to everyones' logic.

same would be true of snake or falco or any other great character, matchup experience is always key. even more mediocre characters can enjoy a lot of success if you face people who don't have any idea what the hell to do against them.

 

[Oracle]

Lol they're forcing idaho players to be scrubs.

 

[knuttz45]

If "to make the game more fun" is your only criterion for determining if we should have a rule or not (which your argument ostensibly is), then you just get people arguing over whose "fun" is "better." That's why rules are designed to make a game competitive, and to test skills, which is certainly less subjective than "fun."

You are exactly right. This is why its NOT an experiment. Again, it clearly states MK is broken because he ruins the metagame itself. Banning MK is making the game competitive vs. more fun.


The argument here should be whether MK is broken, unbeatable, and eventually will be the only character that will be played to really compete vs. MK is not broken, but just top tier. (like marth/fox/falco/sheik). Idaho believes he is, in a VERY condensed document. To really effectively do this is to look at movesets of all characters, and compare on a programming level as well.

Doesn't this kind of say something about MetaKnight though?

If a state and its residents don't use MetaKnight, everyone's saying they're going to get *****.

... Doesn't that mean MetaKnight is, in fact, broken? According to everyones' logic.

No. The actual logic coming from this is that the experience against the character will be lacking, which will THEN make anyone who plays the character effectively will beat them(us). I can give several personal experiences if you don't believe me.

 

[8AngeL8]

What's the best way to deal with meta-knight? Have no experience against him and hope that out of state players are nice enough to not use him, apparently.

Idaho is stupid for implementing this, and they deserve all the MK **** they're going to get.

 

[SothE700k]

Doesn't this kind of say something about MetaKnight though?

If a state and its residents don't use MetaKnight, everyone's saying they're going to get *****.

... Doesn't that mean MetaKnight is, in fact, broken? According to everyones' logic.

No, because now you're out of any chance to have experience against an MK which in turn, will end up making Idaho players absolutely atrocious against him WHICH IN TURN OF THAT, would cause everyone in Idaho to think MK is broken.

Because they don't know how to beat him, they ban him. That's the trick that's played in their heads.

 

[Pierce7d]

I don't understand why everyone is insulting Idaho because they think they might be able to salvage their fleeting community if they ban MK. There won't be any Idaho community to even compete with OOS if everyone goes MK out of desperation, and then thereafter quits of boredom and not winning. You aren't there, you don't know how things are, keep your rude comments to yourself.

 

[SothE700k]

I don't understand why everyone is insulting Idaho because they think they might be able to salvage their fleeting community if they ban MK. There won't be any Idaho community to even compete with OOS if everyone goes MK out of desperation, and then thereafter quits of boredom and not winning. You aren't there, you don't know how things are, keep your rude comments to yourself.

That's what the White Rose is for.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

The argument here should be whether MK is broken, unbeatable, and eventually will be the only character that will be played to really compete vs. MK is not broken, but just top tier. (like marth/fox/falco/sheik). Idaho believes he is, in a VERY condensed document.

Which I've dismantled.

To really effectively do this is to look at movesets of all characters, and compare on a programming level as well.

Again, no, it's totally futile to try to ban based on the paramaters of the game and theorycraft. Fox is theoretically UNTOUCHABLE in Melee, but wouldn't you know, he's tied with Marth for top tier and far from "broken." The only thing that MATTERS is WHAT HAPPENS IN TOURNEYS. If some character has a really good moveset but he doesn't take the majority of the top spots in tourneys, what the heck does it matter that he has a good moveset? So where is the tourney data? I've already shown you that the only data available suggests that he isn't even better than Marth in Melee! We never even DREAMED of banning Marth, so MK should have to be WAY better than Marth in Melee in order to warrant a ban. If you want to do your OWN analysis and challenge that result, be my guest. Until then, there is no reason to respect the assertion that MK is "broken."

 

[Yuna]

I love it how "True Idaho Smashers" face suspension if they play MK against other "True Idaho Smashers" in out of state tournaments.

I didn't care about Idaho before. At least now it brings me amusement.,

 

[Anonymous.]

Two things:

Metaknight is not impossible to punish. Difficult to punish at times, yes. A good character with good matchups, yes. Unarguably the best character in the game at this point, yes. However, he is NOT impossible to punish and that's a fact. Decent predicting skills with virtually any character will allow you to punish Metaknights for even spammy moves like tornado and perhaps even Dsmash (though admittedly, that move is a tough one to punish). The fact remains that MK has startup frames and he has lag frames after (some) moves. Patience and concentration is all that's required to effectively punish Metaknight. This statement is untrue and is hurting your premises pretty bad.

Also saying he takes "no skill" is a bit untrue as there are certain aspects of all characters that take a bit of "skill," so Metaknight does take a bit of "skill" (Brawl sense of the word "skill" at least).


I'll touch more on this later, but to add....

Your last bit about the state of Idaho keeping a good metagame is a bad, bad induction. If your whole state is not playing Metaknights in tournament in your own state for cash and only a few of you travel, no ones getting good with him in your state (ie: not playing him in person, under pressure or trying tricks with him to win in tournament), he will be a HUGE weakness to your ENTIRE state if you ever want to leave or if any MK players come to your tournaments (for example me). You might have a "good" metagame (your sense of "good") as far as individual

And this is especially apparent because right now you consider Metaknight so broken he is being banned, meaning no one can play against him correctly in your state at this moment, lol. Imagine not playing against Metaknight in tournament and then leaving your state and playing some in tournament - it will be pathetic. You guys would be forced into further isolation from the rest of the community!

I guess if you guys want to isolate yourself from the rest of the country in competitive Brawl that's cool with me, but I suggest you at least WAIT on a Metaknight ban, like the rest of the community is doing. Go read M2k's thread with all of those tips on Metaknight and apply them, it might be a good idea for your whole state to as well.

/end thread

anybody who bans MK is an instant scrub.

 

[knuttz45]

Again, no, it's totally futile to try to ban based on the paramaters of the game and theorycraft. Fox is theoretically UNTOUCHABLE in Melee, but wouldn't you know, he's tied with Marth for top tier and far from "broken." The only thing that MATTERS is WHAT HAPPENS IN TOURNEYS. If some character has a really good moveset but he doesn't take the majority of the top spots in tourneys, what the heck does it matter that he has a good moveset? So where is the tourney data? I've already shown you that the only data available suggests that he isn't even better than Marth in Melee! We never even DREAMED of banning Marth, so MK should have to be WAY better than Marth in Melee in order to warrant a ban. If you want to do your OWN analysis and challenge that result, be my guest. Until then, there is no reason to respect the assertion that MK is "broken."

Sorry for the very late response. I do know that fox is THEORETICALLY The best character of the game, but because of the limitations of people, he can't ever be played to his THEORETICAL best where MK can get close. But comparing the theory of playing ANY Melee character is nothing like comparing the theory on how to play ANY Brawl character. But that's off subject.

I do recall the numbers. I can't remember the exact ration numbers, but MK was less than Marth. But, I don't recall any samples on any of the data, and what was the time frame? , Doing more research on tournament results, the trend of MK is going down. Remember MK Was banned 3 months ago, when looking at almost every tournament result, MK was a top placer. These two arguments obviously can contradict my own argument, but still doing more research.

 

[Teran]

Playing against Meta Knight is one of the most exhilarating experiences in the game. Why deprive people of that? Why deprive your Smashers of MK exp?
I hope you guys have good Snakes, Falcos and Diddys.
Breaking News! Idaho bans Snake, Falco and Diddy Kong!

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

ID sux big brawls

 

[brinboy789]

read the last few pages. it seems that you've banned MK because...he is apparently "unfun"

i find versing diddy unfun. ban? no wait, olimar to. ban him too! wait, what about snake? cant forget about him!

and he breaks the whole metagame is pure BS

 

[SothE700k]

Are you kidding!? Meta Knight is one of THE most fun characters to play as! And yes, even against. Gives it a good challenge...

Oh wait, I forgot. People don't like challenges in Brawl.

Scratch this post.