"I'd Telegraph That!" - Little Mac Video Thread

[Solreth]

Thoughts ongoing as I watch^

Watching video now: :" And troy is outta there! THAT WAS A SLOBBERKNOCKER!". Had to put down the drink for that. "TROY YOU SUCK" laughed out loud. Enjoying the match so far. Headsup, even if you dont want to commit to hard wave dances, its still faster to dash in fox trot than to dash normally. (it also lets you commit to boost grabs from mid dash)

Round 2: Diddy kong counterpicks to a stage thats better for mac... I am shocked. Enjoyed the use of banana, wondering where true combo down-tilt to up-b is, its true, relatively safe, and kills at 75% on this stage (hence why this is macs best). Stage gives way to a sweet neutral a to forward tilt. Nice. Match is over,not one up-b kill off the top... thats a shame. My local diddy players have started banning this stage vs mac, and I think for good reason.

:"Troy is really bad at mario. I think he's really bad at most characters". I think we know who your local community villain is Venks ;'P

Round3:" You picked battlefield. Respect for that. Banana to up-smash, nothing left but the crying. Nice one mac. "Venks thinks this matchup is even" Hey man, me too. Glad Im not the only mac out there with that opinion. Solid catch on the Ko Punch.

Round 4: Diddy brings you to town and city, macs 3rd best stage. Getting the feeling he really misunderstands this matchup, but then again I have yet to see any of the true combo - up-b options from you, so maybe the lower ceiling is still better for him here. 0 grabs in four matches, this diddy should start applying more shield... Caught the roll with that hard up-smash. Loved it. This diddy has a real problem with fear rolling as a ledge option... you punish with the down smash he's offsides again.... He fear rolls again, you seal it. Good adaptation to your opponent.

Final thoughts: Very strong fundamentals, I see you lacking a couple of true combos that are fantastic with mac. Down-tilt to side-b, down-tilt to up-b,up-tilt or down-tilt to perfect pivot-uptilt to up smash... Very conventional play, but solid. Start spreading out, you missed a few gimp opportunities charging smash on ledge like that. I liked it a lot venks! Where are your locals? what state?

 

[earla]

good job venks. nice to see you play again

 

[inconspikuous]

Not the best quality video, but here's the Winner Finals set from one of the recent tournaments I went to. I play against this player on an almost weekly basis so I might do a few things that look odd, but it's more than likely I'm trying to make a hard read.

awesome. i like seeing the current mac meta in tourney. good stuff man. do you have tourney vids against a sheik? that commentary made it seem like you know how to deal with the mac vs. sheik matchup, unless i misunderstood.

 

[Dyz]

Good afternoon Mac players, i sadly dont have a capture card and im trying to improve the quality as much as i can, heres a video with a few matches with my Mac, again apologies for the quality, but thanks in advance if you watch :D!

https://youtu.be/iHGqnjOPTNA

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Good afternoon Mac players, i sadly dont have a capture card and im trying to improve the quality as much as i can, heres a video with a few matches with my Mac, there is some interesting Tech in the first match im not sure if its well known but on a mac mirror match, you can Up B out of the last hit of the Jab combo, take a look!

https://youtu.be/iHGqnjOPTNA

It depends on damage and the opponent's Rage; some moves have gaps between hits. Yes, it's well-known.

 

[Dyz]

It depends on damage and the opponent's Rage; some moves have gaps between hits. Yes, it's well-known.

i see, well thats why i said "im not sure if its well-known" because i got a youtube comment of someone who didnt knew, but thanks for mentioning it then, but either way still posting some vids to show some Mac support, and to the thread

 

[inconspikuous]

i know part of this was already posted somewhere, but here's alphicans' mac vs. pikachu in GF:

...*sigh* if this is a sign of the future meta for smash 4, i'm worried. although there are some incredibly hype moments, there's a lot of 'nothing' happening in these matches. the stage-sized-gap-footsies kind of reminds me of brawl planking, except not on the ledge.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

i know part of this was already posted somewhere, but here's alphicans' mac vs. pikachu in GF:

...*sigh* if this is a sign of the future meta for smash 4, i'm worried. although there are some incredibly hype moments, there's a lot of 'nothing' happening in these matches. the stage-sized-gap-footsies kind of reminds me of brawl planking, except not on the ledge.

As long as there's no significant incentive not to roll, guaranteed setups and this sort of thing are likely the future.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

I'll take this "Planking" anyday over the Brawl MK planking

 

[Masque]

i know part of this was already posted somewhere, but here's alphicans' mac vs. pikachu in GF:

...*sigh* if this is a sign of the future meta for smash 4, i'm worried. although there are some incredibly hype moments, there's a lot of 'nothing' happening in these matches. the stage-sized-gap-footsies kind of reminds me of brawl planking, except not on the ledge.

Some really impressive Mac moments, but that Pikachu player was obnoxious as hell. D:

 

[inconspikuous]

Some really impressive Mac moments, but that Pikachu player was obnoxious as hell. D:

i mean, they're both playing to win here. captain L isn't just going to walk into a disadvantaged position, so he tries to wait and bait. likewise, alphicans knows he could get gimped 'easily' if he approaches pikachu by the ledge, so he waits and baits too. it's on both of them, and i understand it -- it's just not very exciting to watch them empty hop and throw out moves from the other side of the stage. i'm sure it was tense as hell for the players, and they're both playing really smart -- it's just not as exciting to watch.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It comes with the territory of being a character who moves so quickly and hits so hard but is so awful in other aspects of his character.

 

[inconspikuous]

earl's mac vs. c. falcon in WF:

there's some cute perfect pivot>utilt tech in here. a little too much rolling for my liking and not enough dance trotting but still some solid mac play, capitalizing on jab and dtilt openings very well.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

earl's mac vs. c. falcon in WF:

there's some cute perfect pivot>utilt tech in here. a little too much rolling for my liking and not enough dance trotting but still some solid mac play, capitalizing on jab and dtilt openings very well.

The falcon keeps recovering the same way from the ledge... Ledge get up. I would have punished that hard if I was that mac. I love it when people think it's 100% safe until i Fsmash them at 50% and they die.

 

[Masque]

i mean, they're both playing to win here. captain L isn't just going to walk into a disadvantaged position, so he tries to wait and bait. likewise, alphicans knows he could get gimped 'easily' if he approaches pikachu by the ledge, so he waits and baits too. it's on both of them, and i understand it -- it's just not very exciting to watch them empty hop and throw out moves from the other side of the stage. i'm sure it was tense as hell for the players, and they're both playing really smart -- it's just not as exciting to watch.

Ah, by "obnoxious," I just meant with the constant taunting and teabagging.

 

[inconspikuous]

Ah, by "obnoxious," I just meant with the constant taunting and teabagging.

oh... sorry yeah i jumped to conclusions there. i mean, like in that 3rd game, the crowd was clearly rooting for mac and cheering for a 3-stock lol -- i guess he decided to 'answer back' with his taunting.

 

[Venks]

earl's mac vs. c. falcon in WF:

there's some cute perfect pivot>utilt tech in here. a little too much rolling for my liking and not enough dance trotting but still some solid mac play, capitalizing on jab and dtilt openings very well.

Always enjoy watching @ earla play, he's such a smart player. I feel the key to Earl's style is how infrequently he commits to anything unsafe. Through the bulk of this set he dodge rolls and spot dodges a lot, but the thing is Little Mac's dodges are really crazy good and Earl is capitalizing on that. A lot of Earl's damage comes from dodging an attack/grab and then striking back with an up-tilt or down-tilt depending on which direction he's facing. Earl then hounds after his opponent and doesn't allow Captain Falcon to land for free. A single tilt generally leads to Captain Falcon going off stage which then allows Earl to make a ledge option read for more damage.

I also really like Earl's dash attacks. When he's on the offense that was his go-to option. Even though it's a single attack Earl really mixes it up. He would either go for a normal hit, bait his opponent by whiffing just in front of him, or using the attack late so it crosses up on the other side of the opponent's shield. The cross over's usually went into up-tilt and would catch the opponent as they dropped shield. The whiffs going into either jab or down tilt. Occasionally Captain Falcon would get a perfect shield off so it would ruin Earl's pressure, but for the most part those exchanges were in Little Mac's favor.

 

[earla]

haha i cringed when i rewatched that awhile ago.. wasn't playing well.

The thinking behind the dash attacks is that often you can catch falcons during their dash animation before their grab comes out. I like dash attack as a fast tool to punish players on reaction if they move into it's range.

In that set above the main adjustment i made after losing 2 games was to focus more on stage control.. controlling and baiting players to the center of the stage. I've found great success using this approach against mario players as they gimp us so effectively.

Here's another set with the same player where i play more on the offense.. some shield pressure examples in their that may be of use to some people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4LdUn0GzI

E

 

[shinhed-echi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4LdUn0GzI

E

Sweet jeezus, this is inspiring as heck!
I wish I had it this.. well... "easy" when dealing with Falcons. I must be doing something wrong, but I'm definitely taking notes.

 

[Virum]

haha i cringed when i rewatched that awhile ago.. wasn't playing well.

The thinking behind the dash attacks is that often you can catch falcons during their dash animation before their grab comes out. I like dash attack as a fast tool to punish players on reaction if they move into it's range.

In that set above the main adjustment i made after losing 2 games was to focus more on stage control.. controlling and baiting players to the center of the stage. I've found great success using this approach against mario players as they gimp us so effectively.

Here's another set with the same player where i play more on the offense.. some shield pressure examples in their that may be of use to some people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4LdUn0GzI

E

Great set. Game 3 in particular was great. The use of that perfect pivot UTilt mid combo was crisp. That commentary was painful though. So unenthusiastic and uninformative.

 

[CHOVI]

haha i cringed when i rewatched that awhile ago.. wasn't playing well.

The thinking behind the dash attacks is that often you can catch falcons during their dash animation before their grab comes out. I like dash attack as a fast tool to punish players on reaction if they move into it's range.

In that set above the main adjustment i made after losing 2 games was to focus more on stage control.. controlling and baiting players to the center of the stage. I've found great success using this approach against mario players as they gimp us so effectively.

Here's another set with the same player where i play more on the offense.. some shield pressure examples in their that may be of use to some people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4LdUn0GzI

E

Your Mac is so good!

 

[inconspikuous]

*sigh* the sheik vs. mac matchup again, in a nutshell:

i mean, it's zero, but still. it could've been nobody.

 

[Laitome]

*sigh* the sheik vs. mac matchup again, in a nutshell:

i mean, it's zero, but still. it could've been nobody.

Let me tell you, I ****ed up a TON in the match.

Edit: And for some reason they spelled my name with three capital letters for whatever reason.

 

[CHOVI]

Let me tell you, I ****ed up a TON in the match.

Edit: And for some reason they spelled my name with three capital letters for whatever reason.

I actually agree. The matchup doesn't seem unwinnable at all, but some mistakes literally cost the game in this matchup. Still, you could have done a lot better, but great job on maining Mac :3 I'm sure you'll do better next time

 

[inconspikuous]

Let me tell you, I ****ed up a TON in the match.

Edit: And for some reason they spelled my name with three capital letters for whatever reason.

well, i'm sure zero is at least partially responsible for that, but the other part is that mac has to play perfect to win against sheik. i think at the highest level of competition, saying that the matchup is 'unwinnable' vs. saying the matchup is 'winnable if you don't make mistakes' is semantics. everyone makes mistakes, even zero lol. sheik just bodies mac on his mistakes, and mac can't necessarily do the same to sheik without luck/committing.

and lol that's terrible about the name. they probably thought you were being cute with the spelling.

 

[Venks]

well, i'm sure zero is at least partially responsible for that, but the other part is that mac has to play perfect to win against sheik. i think at the highest level of competition, saying that the matchup is 'unwinnable' vs. saying the matchup is 'winnable if you don't make mistakes' is semantics. everyone makes mistakes, even zero lol. sheik just bodies mac on his mistakes, and mac can't necessarily do the same to sheik without luck/committing.

Completely agreed.

*sigh* the sheik vs. mac matchup again, in a nutshell:

i mean, it's zero, but still. it could've been nobody.

The first round was played uh. Well it's Sheik. Do we have anything we can throw out in neutral? @ Laitome gets fAired for tossing out down-tilt, which is usually our go to neutral move. There's a down smash that comes out in neutral as well. I tend to do that as habit now and then because of how fast the attack is, but yeah Sheik spends most of the time in the air.
But that dash attack into shield against Sheik sitting on ledge was like LM committing suicide. It happens though. I'm sure my composure would be gone if I was fighting Zer0 and I'd do stupid things.

In the 2nd round LM holds out his jabs and manages to beat out Sheik's fAir. How legit is this? LM does use downsmash nicely, catching Sheik as she fAirs over him, but then he down-tilts and gets caught by fAir and loses the stock. She's just so mobile. I don't think we can afford to down-tilt unless we are applying actual shield pressure.

Geesh. She's just so fast. She covers so many options with her tilts, nAir, uAir, and fAir. The platforms really mess up LM this round. Sheik does such a good job keeping LM off the ground. Perhaps Battlefield isn't a stage we should take Sheik too? I still prefer BF over Smashville, but when you have a counter-pick maybe something else? BF is one of my preferred stages with LM because I sometimes get KOs by up smashing techs/rolls on platforms, but man watching LM on that platform was painful to watch.

A huge part of this is obviously because it was Zer0, but I'd love to get some Sheik discussion going.

 

[Laitome]

In the 2nd round LM holds out his jabs and manages to beat out Sheik's fAir. How legit is this? LM does use downsmash nicely, catching Sheik as she fAirs over him, but then he down-tilts and gets caught by fAir and loses the stock. She's just so mobile. I don't think we can afford to down-tilt unless we are applying actual shield pressure.

Not very unfortunately. Zero whiffed so I got the jab. Somehow d-tilt gets hit by falling fair, but downsmash beats it. However downsmash is a hard read though, but its wonky hurtboxes would actually make it ideal for countering fair. However it's a hard read, whiff and you get grabbed.

Geesh. She's just so fast. She covers so many options with her tilts, nAir, uAir, and fAir. The platforms really mess up LM this round. Sheik does such a good job keeping LM off the ground. Perhaps Battlefield isn't a stage we should take Sheik too? I still prefer BF over Smashville, but when you have a counter-pick maybe something else? BF is one of my preferred stages with LM because I sometimes get KOs by up smashing techs/rolls on platforms, but man watching LM on that platform was painful to watch.

I really don't know a stage that would be in Mac's favor outside of fd. Delfino we get carried the the blast zone when the stage lands, Castle is the same situation during the second part and transitions. Town and City as a counter-pick is laughable. Smashville is horrendous for Mac while great for Shiek. Which leaves us with Lylat and Duck Hunt (he banned FD and Halberd if memory serves me right), both of which I don't know enough of to favor Mac, so I pick BF cause I was most comfortable there.

 

[inconspikuous]

...I'd love to get some Sheik discussion going.

me too. but afaik sheik>mac. some points that i've come across:

1. mac can nair out of sheik's ftilt strings.
2. not ideal, but mac should opt for the more 'risky' usmash when facing a recovering sheik. it will catch bouncing fish a lot better than dsmash.
3. uptilted fsmash true combos into ko punch at 0%. abuse the super armour on a misspaced fair/ftilt.
4. spotdodge bouncing fish onstage. if you're not getting gimped, this will probably be the kill move that sheik will be fishing for.
5. from the sheik boards, DI up+into sheik to avoid sheik's fthrow>bouncing fish string.
6. pivot uptilted fsmashes work well against a committed sheik fair.
7. if you get stuck in a fair string, don't use your second jump.
8. never take sheik to smashville. the moving platform will carry you all the way to the blastzone on fair strings.
9. i think perfect pivot reverse utilts could be useful to continue mac strings because sheik is a fast faller, but i can't pull them off.
10. learn a top tier to counter sheik and play that character instead. i suggest mii brawler. similar style, except with good recovery & aerials.

EDIT: in retrospect, we probably should move this discussion to the matchup thread. and my next couple lines to the stage thread. but whatever.

as for stages, i think CS has still got the edge. i think you want to face a sheik that will actually fight you on the 2nd transformation. in my experience, they camp on the top slanted areas waiting for the transformation. sometimes the in-between transformations can throw both player's spacing off and you can get a really early kill.

i think lylat has some real potential. mac can shark all of the platforms, and if he's standing on the slanted wings facing upward, jolt will actually go pretty high through the middle platform. surprising vertical range. i think it may become an important counterpick in the future.

i'm reconsidering T&C, because it is actually fd for quite a significant amount of time. and the platforms aren't as terrible as smashville in my experience. low ceiling also helps. if you're stuck on the vertical moving middle platform and you've got a sheik fishing for sharked upairs, you could probably get an easy upB OoS kill, in theory.

 

[Zodiacx10]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtMvTfVErVI

A video of me fighting J.A.P.A.N.
i think i did pretty good in this one and i wanted to share it

 

[inconspikuous]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtMvTfVErVI

A video of me fighting J.A.P.A.N.
i think i did pretty good in this one and i wanted to share it

ohsnap, @ sirchadakiss18 called out! lol. nice strings @ Zodiacx10 , i thought that last string was pretty creative.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Little Mac vs Ness on FG! Tell me how I did.
Do note that this match is a little old and I have definitely gotten better about not throwing out as many smash or dash attacks. I also wasnt utilizing d-tilt at all.

 

[sirchadakiss18]

ohsnap, @ sirchadakiss18 called out! lol. nice strings @ Zodiacx10 , i thought that last string was pretty creative.

Lol I beat him so many times those games also I'm rusty, been busy studying, he just wants bragging rights lol, I'll let him have it.

 

[Solreth]

So I recall someone requesting tournament replays. This is raw and uncut so bare with me you might have to fast forward to all the mac parts. Mvg gave us an opportunity to stream through them. I wound up in 3rd, unfortunately losing to Ryo (imma get him back ) each time. Otherwise, my results were quite solid! Enjoy!

http://www.twitch.tv/mvg_league/v/5855851

 

[Zodiacx10]

So I recall someone requesting tournament replays. This is raw and uncut so bare with me you might have to fast forward to all the mac parts. Mvg gave us an opportunity to stream through them. I wound up in 3rd, unfortunately losing to Ryo (imma get him back ) each time. Otherwise, my results were quite solid! Enjoy!

http://www.twitch.tv/mvg_league/v/5855851

very entertaining to watch some of those matches. i really liked how you mixed up your recovery, you got back to stage pretty much every time. i thought you were kinda risky with mac's up b and side though. usually the up b follow up isn't worth it unless you can kill with it because it does not do a lot of damage. but pretty solid none the less though

 

[inconspikuous]

So I recall someone requesting tournament replays. This is raw and uncut so bare with me you might have to fast forward to all the mac parts. Mvg gave us an opportunity to stream through them. I wound up in 3rd, unfortunately losing to Ryo (imma get him back ) each time. Otherwise, my results were quite solid! Enjoy!

http://www.twitch.tv/mvg_league/v/5855851

slick movement @ Solreth . i liked that dashdancing and dancetrotting mixing, and the creative movement options in general. genuinely surprised at the utilt>KO. i don't know how to do that ledge jump KO punch; i've tried to lab it, i can't get it. like zodiac was saying, i disliked the huge commitment upBs, but you were landing them more often than not and you did really well despite it so i can't really say anything. that was inspiring. great showing for mac, man. keep that up.

 

[sirchadakiss18]

no johns

Starting to dislike you kid.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Here's a recent match against a DK. Tell me how I did!

 

[sirchadakiss18]

me too. but afaik sheik>mac. some points that i've come across:

1. mac can nair out of sheik's ftilt strings.
2. not ideal, but mac should opt for the more 'risky' usmash when facing a recovering sheik. it will catch bouncing fish a lot better than dsmash.
3. uptilted fsmash true combos into ko punch at 0%. abuse the super armour on a misspaced fair/ftilt.
4. spotdodge bouncing fish onstage. if you're not getting gimped, this will probably be the kill move that sheik will be fishing for.
5. from the sheik boards, DI up+into sheik to avoid sheik's fthrow>bouncing fish string.
6. pivot uptilted fsmashes work well against a committed sheik fair.
7. if you get stuck in a fair string, don't use your second jump.
8. never take sheik to smashville. the moving platform will carry you all the way to the blastzone on fair strings.
9. i think perfect pivot reverse utilts could be useful to continue mac strings because sheik is a fast faller, but i can't pull them off.
10. learn a top tier to counter sheik and play that character instead. i suggest mii brawler. similar style, except with good recovery & aerials.

EDIT: in retrospect, we probably should move this discussion to the matchup thread. and my next couple lines to the stage thread. but whatever.

as for stages, i think CS has still got the edge. i think you want to face a sheik that will actually fight you on the 2nd transformation. in my experience, they camp on the top slanted areas waiting for the transformation. sometimes the in-between transformations can throw both player's spacing off and you can get a really early kill.

i think lylat has some real potential. mac can shark all of the platforms, and if he's standing on the slanted wings facing upward, jolt will actually go pretty high through the middle platform. surprising vertical range. i think it may become an important counterpick in the future.

i'm reconsidering T&C, because it is actually fd for quite a significant amount of time. and the platforms aren't as terrible as smashville in my experience. low ceiling also helps. if you're stuck on the vertical moving middle platform and you've got a sheik fishing for sharked upairs, you could probably get an easy upB OoS kill, in theory.

Straight Lunge > All Of Sheik Moves, gg.

 

[inconspikuous]

Straight Lunge > All Of Sheik Moves, gg.

lol. neutral B is a pretty big committal though... i would love to see a match where a mac successfully uses straight lunge vs sheik more than once or twice an entire match. i'd expect a shield>backthrow>death combo lol.

 

[inconspikuous]

sorry, double post, but i feel like this is a pretty important video to post:

@ earla 's mac vs mario GF:

showcases the mac vs mario matchup really well. what earl does is very smart, and even though he gets gimped a bunch of times, he plays the matchup amazingly and shows what mac can do even when he gets gimped at low percents in a 2-stock scenario.