Noraa
Smash Lord
Its ok NKB, as long you like flcl then everything is ok =]
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Ice Climbers Matchup Thread*Closed*
- Thread starter NinjaFoxX
- Start date
- Status
Nikwadtkhil
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2008
- Messages
- 32
I suggest the grabbing(lol) since he's cake to B-throw>D-Throw chaingrab
just play the spacing game with random blizzards Ice blocks to force the tilts and then a blizzard
run under the aerials to provoke a dair then grab em and stay just outside of his easy to read smash range
stay away from the turtle by spacing yourselves too far away for the last hit or count all 6 hits on your shield and wait it out, for a punishment on the lag if they mis space.
Also get behind him when he's on the ground, it works wonders even with the hammers
IMO
just play the spacing game with random blizzards Ice blocks to force the tilts and then a blizzard
run under the aerials to provoke a dair then grab em and stay just outside of his easy to read smash range
stay away from the turtle by spacing yourselves too far away for the last hit or count all 6 hits on your shield and wait it out, for a punishment on the lag if they mis space.
Also get behind him when he's on the ground, it works wonders even with the hammers
IMO
lain
Smash Master
Uhhh...
well first of all have you SEEN me vs NOJ?
jkjk
desynced blizzard outrange anything he can do, so the G&W will try to dair into you. you can have popo or nana short hop and uair if they try. If you can roll behind them during their bair you can get a free grab usually, ALWAYS try to powershield his dair cause that's a free grab son.
Uhhh... yeah always make sure to win the neutral (you should). he'll counter something gay so you'll either have to change or invariably lose (but maybe win if they suck at cp'ing). then cp the according neutral stage. you have to REALLY think about which neutral stage will be best when cp'ing it, because it matters. Playing DDD on BF would be a ******** cp because he can dair camp on platforms ALL day and you can't do **** about it if they are smart. Little things like that, so just DON'T pick a stage that gives the other character any sort of mobile advantage or advantage from the different platform layouts.
Uhh... at a high level IMHO 6.5:3.5. It's teetering on 7:3 though.
well first of all have you SEEN me vs NOJ?
jkjk
desynced blizzard outrange anything he can do, so the G&W will try to dair into you. you can have popo or nana short hop and uair if they try. If you can roll behind them during their bair you can get a free grab usually, ALWAYS try to powershield his dair cause that's a free grab son.
Uhhh... yeah always make sure to win the neutral (you should). he'll counter something gay so you'll either have to change or invariably lose (but maybe win if they suck at cp'ing). then cp the according neutral stage. you have to REALLY think about which neutral stage will be best when cp'ing it, because it matters. Playing DDD on BF would be a ******** cp because he can dair camp on platforms ALL day and you can't do **** about it if they are smart. Little things like that, so just DON'T pick a stage that gives the other character any sort of mobile advantage or advantage from the different platform layouts.
Uhh... at a high level IMHO 6.5:3.5. It's teetering on 7:3 though.
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
all his aeriels can split the IC very far.
ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
You conterpick with Lucas?
Doesn't he get ***** even harder than the ICs??
LOL
10bucketsofrecovery
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I agree with lain for the most part. G&W can't outspace the ICs nearly as well as one might think he could at first glance.
JustNoOne
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,537
It's not that bad and it sounds lmao :3
JustNoOne
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,537
Hit him with a Uair, if he's too high wait from him to come down with or without a Dair. It's not like Dair to UpB and repeat is effective... Or is it 0.o
Bnzaaa
Smash Ace
Game and Watch has insane priority on his moves. His aerials can be very annoying. Game and Watch users love to use their Turtle (B-Air) to approach. Not only is it Multi-Hit, but it easily shield pokes, and has a landing hitbox that pops the opponent into the air. Powershielding the first possible hit will help to keep your shield up. Also keep your shield up before the landing hitbox connects. If you get caught in the B-Air, DI out as best as you can. It is possible to escape the hitbox and land before Game and Watch does. This may be common knowledge by now, but I've seen a few people not do anything when they get caught by B-Air, so I think it's worth mentioning.
N-Air is also an annoying attack. It's Multi-Hit, and when fresh does 17 damage. It's also a good juggling move, that can link into other attacks.
The Key (D-Air) is usually used high from above. Game and Watch has the ability to Dive or slow down on command. If they use it from directly above and you feel like attacking, Up-Tilt beats it and Up-Air can beat it or clash with it. This move also has a landing hitbox, so be careful when trying to attack/grab him right out of his landing lag.
Up-Air can be hard to deal with. It has an invisible hitbox that pushes opponents upward, and is really good for replenishing his moves. The Ice Climbers are susceptible to this due to their floaty nature, and their slow horizontal speed. You do not want to be above Game and Watch when you are in free fall.
On the ground he has many powerful attacks. Most of which have crazy Inturrupted as Soon as frames. His Jab can be DI'd out of pretty eaisly, and can hit from behind if you are standing right next to him. F-Tilt is rarely used, but has decent knockback and is a decent spacing tool. Up-Tilt is situational, but can juggle at low percents, and can set up for other moves. D-Tilt is a better spacing tool than F-Tilt, comes out on Frame 6, and has no coooldown frames, so they can use any move they want right after. It's a good move for stoping approaches, as it has a pretty big hitbox.
All of his smashes have Inturrupted as Soon as frames. All of his smashes are also not that quick, and can be blocked on reaction. They're also absurdly powerful, and have the ability to kill around 100. Up-Smash has ridiculous priority and is Game and Watch's strongest smash attack. Forward-Smash has a lingering hitbox. You can still get hit by the Flame when it's out. You can get hit by the stick also (extremely rare) and has good knockback too. D-Smash will probably be his best move for killing. It hits on both sides simultaneously, so rolling behind him is never a good idea. It has 2 separate hitboxes. The sweetspot will send you upwards, and can kill very early. The non-sweetspot is also powerful, and sends you at a odd angle. When separated, getting hit by the non-sweetspot will make it extremely difficult to recover. Due to the hitboxes, this has the ability to split the Climbers up as well.
His specials are situational. Chef (Neutral-B) has the ability to semi-spike when it connects up close, and is a decent zoning tool due to the random trajectories of the food. Side-B is also used rarely due to it's lack of speed, and randomness. All the numbers have different effects and uses. The Bucket (Down-B) probably won't be used in this matchup. While it is possible to bucket Blizzard, they have to wait until after 100 before they can kill with it. By then it's pretty useless. Also it's extremely punishable when the Climbers are dysynched.
Up-B is and awesome move. It allows Game and Watch to get out of many situations. He has invinciblity frames on his Up-B, and can attack out of it. The sides of Up-B can launch you in the air on startup if you are right next to him or in the air. If he does an attack out of his Up-B before the parachute appears, he will automatically fastfall, with the attack, which can allow for a quick attack. If he uses his Up-B on the Ground, he still has the ability to use his second jump.
Due to Game and Watch's recovery, he can come off the stage to gimp us if he wants. All of his aerials can knock us out of Side-B. His Up-B can be used as a finisher off stage as well. He can also wait on the stage and use Chef/Down-Tilt to knock us back off the stage. If you Up-B, be careful of him dropping down to attack you.
Game and Watch can't afford to grab us because all of his throws are slow. This ruins his techcase game, but killing for him isn't really that big a of problem due to his arsenal of powerful attacks.
Game and Watch can easily make Nana a non-factor once separated. Game and Watch does pretty well against SoPo. Getting grabbed isn't a good thing when SoPo. Down-Throw leads to a tech chase. It's possible to tech his Down-Throw. Up-Throw leads to Up-Air. If you can avoid getting hit by his smashes or grabbed, he may have trouble finishing you.
The one move we have that outprioritizes Game and Watch is Blizzard. It also outranges anything Game and Watch can do. Trying to force him to approach with Ice Blocks may not work well here, as D-Tilt is good at blocking enemy projectiles. Powershielding is very important in this matchup, as it makes it eaiser to get a grab in or punish him. Juggling also works decently, as he can't really D-Air through our attacks.
The best way to kill him is up I think. Game and Watch has a technique called Bucket Braking, which allows him to stop his aerial momentum, and survive for longer. Killing him off the top makes it more difficult for him to Bucket Brake. You can spike him off the edge too, but his Up-B will usually get him back to the stage. Chaingrabbing him shouldn't be too difficult.
I believe it is the stages that make this matchup even more difficult then it should be. Game and Watch can platform camp you all day, and can use the platforms to their advantage more than we can. Stages with ledges also give him a humongous advantage, because his ledge game is very good. Moving stages are good for him due to his mobility and Air Game. Avoid stages like Norfair and Rainbow Cruise. Game and Watch does very well on these stages and the Ice Climbers don't do well on either stage. Flat stages like Final Destination work well here.
I also agree with everything Lain said
.
N-Air is also an annoying attack. It's Multi-Hit, and when fresh does 17 damage. It's also a good juggling move, that can link into other attacks.
The Key (D-Air) is usually used high from above. Game and Watch has the ability to Dive or slow down on command. If they use it from directly above and you feel like attacking, Up-Tilt beats it and Up-Air can beat it or clash with it. This move also has a landing hitbox, so be careful when trying to attack/grab him right out of his landing lag.
Up-Air can be hard to deal with. It has an invisible hitbox that pushes opponents upward, and is really good for replenishing his moves. The Ice Climbers are susceptible to this due to their floaty nature, and their slow horizontal speed. You do not want to be above Game and Watch when you are in free fall.
On the ground he has many powerful attacks. Most of which have crazy Inturrupted as Soon as frames. His Jab can be DI'd out of pretty eaisly, and can hit from behind if you are standing right next to him. F-Tilt is rarely used, but has decent knockback and is a decent spacing tool. Up-Tilt is situational, but can juggle at low percents, and can set up for other moves. D-Tilt is a better spacing tool than F-Tilt, comes out on Frame 6, and has no coooldown frames, so they can use any move they want right after. It's a good move for stoping approaches, as it has a pretty big hitbox.
All of his smashes have Inturrupted as Soon as frames. All of his smashes are also not that quick, and can be blocked on reaction. They're also absurdly powerful, and have the ability to kill around 100. Up-Smash has ridiculous priority and is Game and Watch's strongest smash attack. Forward-Smash has a lingering hitbox. You can still get hit by the Flame when it's out. You can get hit by the stick also (extremely rare) and has good knockback too. D-Smash will probably be his best move for killing. It hits on both sides simultaneously, so rolling behind him is never a good idea. It has 2 separate hitboxes. The sweetspot will send you upwards, and can kill very early. The non-sweetspot is also powerful, and sends you at a odd angle. When separated, getting hit by the non-sweetspot will make it extremely difficult to recover. Due to the hitboxes, this has the ability to split the Climbers up as well.
His specials are situational. Chef (Neutral-B) has the ability to semi-spike when it connects up close, and is a decent zoning tool due to the random trajectories of the food. Side-B is also used rarely due to it's lack of speed, and randomness. All the numbers have different effects and uses. The Bucket (Down-B) probably won't be used in this matchup. While it is possible to bucket Blizzard, they have to wait until after 100 before they can kill with it. By then it's pretty useless. Also it's extremely punishable when the Climbers are dysynched.
Up-B is and awesome move. It allows Game and Watch to get out of many situations. He has invinciblity frames on his Up-B, and can attack out of it. The sides of Up-B can launch you in the air on startup if you are right next to him or in the air. If he does an attack out of his Up-B before the parachute appears, he will automatically fastfall, with the attack, which can allow for a quick attack. If he uses his Up-B on the Ground, he still has the ability to use his second jump.
Due to Game and Watch's recovery, he can come off the stage to gimp us if he wants. All of his aerials can knock us out of Side-B. His Up-B can be used as a finisher off stage as well. He can also wait on the stage and use Chef/Down-Tilt to knock us back off the stage. If you Up-B, be careful of him dropping down to attack you.
Game and Watch can't afford to grab us because all of his throws are slow. This ruins his techcase game, but killing for him isn't really that big a of problem due to his arsenal of powerful attacks.
Game and Watch can easily make Nana a non-factor once separated. Game and Watch does pretty well against SoPo. Getting grabbed isn't a good thing when SoPo. Down-Throw leads to a tech chase. It's possible to tech his Down-Throw. Up-Throw leads to Up-Air. If you can avoid getting hit by his smashes or grabbed, he may have trouble finishing you.
The one move we have that outprioritizes Game and Watch is Blizzard. It also outranges anything Game and Watch can do. Trying to force him to approach with Ice Blocks may not work well here, as D-Tilt is good at blocking enemy projectiles. Powershielding is very important in this matchup, as it makes it eaiser to get a grab in or punish him. Juggling also works decently, as he can't really D-Air through our attacks.
The best way to kill him is up I think. Game and Watch has a technique called Bucket Braking, which allows him to stop his aerial momentum, and survive for longer. Killing him off the top makes it more difficult for him to Bucket Brake. You can spike him off the edge too, but his Up-B will usually get him back to the stage. Chaingrabbing him shouldn't be too difficult.
I believe it is the stages that make this matchup even more difficult then it should be. Game and Watch can platform camp you all day, and can use the platforms to their advantage more than we can. Stages with ledges also give him a humongous advantage, because his ledge game is very good. Moving stages are good for him due to his mobility and Air Game. Avoid stages like Norfair and Rainbow Cruise. Game and Watch does very well on these stages and the Ice Climbers don't do well on either stage. Flat stages like Final Destination work well here.
I also agree with everything Lain said
.
meepxzero
Smash Master
6:4 lain pretty much summed up the match up. It only becomes really hard when he camps and doesnt care if the timer runs out.
Which he probably will as long as it´s play to win :/
meepxzero
Smash Master
if thats the case if your better in skill than them you will win. GaWs that play like this often throw out 1 attack out for every 5 you do. If your playing well throughout the 7-8 minutes you will win. Sadly ice climbers at the highest level will have to face this feat all the time -_-.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
Indeed, part of the reason I haven't been very active in the SoCal Brawl scene in the past month is that I don't feel like driving two hours to play long and campy matches against people who really don't want to get grabbed, lol.
Monkey Wrench
Smash Apprentice
DK is 70-30 at worst. He has too many options here to warrant an 80-20, especially with platforms.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
this week is Ganon.
easy stuff right?
easy stuff right?
JustNoOne
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,537
Ganon's moves comes out fast for a heavy person like him, but the ending lag is what kills him, he's much more harder than some people give credit for him.
Just like Captain Falcon, most to all of his apporaches can be stopped with blizzard and with is slow walking, running and aerial speed, he really can't do much but play defensively, even Ice blocks can do some damage do him if desynced properly.
His SideB is kinda werid, it has some super armor frames if he grabs a climber, his Dair is like a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick and he can gimp the ICs with it... (I did this many times to the IC computer :3)
We have the ability to stop his apporaches and really keep him at bay, we can CG him and it's hard for him to stop us apporaching? So I give this 65:35
Sparta Kick :3
At least he can kill the ICs a bit quicker than Captain Falcon. xd
Just like Captain Falcon, most to all of his apporaches can be stopped with blizzard and with is slow walking, running and aerial speed, he really can't do much but play defensively, even Ice blocks can do some damage do him if desynced properly.
His SideB is kinda werid, it has some super armor frames if he grabs a climber, his Dair is like a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick and he can gimp the ICs with it... (I did this many times to the IC computer :3)
We have the ability to stop his apporaches and really keep him at bay, we can CG him and it's hard for him to stop us apporaching? So I give this 65:35
Sparta Kick :3
At least he can kill the ICs a bit quicker than Captain Falcon. xd
lain
Smash Master
10-0 next matchup plz.
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,227
You guys are awesome. This is the first matchup thread that doesn't come out and say "CF is just crap so he's easy".
...and where have you been? You haven't been trolling us lately. So I must retrieve you.
Sorry off topic. Lol
lain
Smash Master
...... 10-0 next matchup plz?
lain
Smash Master
in all honesty i'll write something about the matchup within 24 hours i'm guessing.
ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
ICs outrange him. He can't tech chase his side B because there's 2 of you. Watch out for his thunder storming, even though it's range is bad. Desynched IBs can gimp his recovery due to the angle of his up B. I'm trying to think of something that Ganon has against the ICs and I got nothing... OH, HE HAS MINDGAMEZ.
I don't believe any matchup is considered unwinnable, but... Ganon just can't win.
10-0
I don't believe any matchup is considered unwinnable, but... Ganon just can't win.
10-0
lain
Smash Master
ehhh ignore the fire did it. good stuff.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
lolyeah, i also need to clean up the front page more too ;P
my internet crapped out on me all last week. + ive been trying to get yoshi some tourney results
if only teh picture wasnt sooooo blurry i would use it(sexy ganon is sexy anyways)NO NO NO!
Gangsta Ganon is bad, Sparta Ganon so KEWL!
Epic Win :3
Lawlcakes GIMP
i love your contribution to ths thread, keep it up
lawl sarcasm/
gantrain05
Smash Master
actually ganon can thunderstomp nana to hell and back, its not too hard to do, if she's hit by a single Dair ganon can kill her in like literally 5 seconds, and im sorry, but one ice climber is probably at a disadvantage to ganon......popo = single worst char in the game.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
you havent seen my sexy SoPo(trendsetter ur still a beast)
single squall r4pes hard
nuff sad
he stll beat me cuz i ididint CG him>.>
that dair thing is truth, LOL HE SPIKED THE SHlT OUTTA ME
that dair thing is truth, LOL HE SPIKED THE SHlT OUTTA ME
ChibiIceClimberz
Smash Ace
Exactly lol, that's why we have Blizzard and IceBlocks to keep him away from separating the ICs.
Wait.. so who exactly is better? Olimar with no Pikmin or SoPo Lol. Never knew SoPo would lose to Olimar when he barely has any aerials and smashes. xD
lain
Smash Master
Actually the matchup of SoPo and Ganon might be 9-1...
Anyways yeah Kawaii Bunny I'm awesome(ly lazy) and stuff. But I **** people for free so it's ok ;D
Anyways yeah Kawaii Bunny I'm awesome(ly lazy) and stuff. But I **** people for free so it's ok ;D
Kage Me
Smash Ace
9-1.
U-tilt ***** the Climbers hard, hence the 1.
U-tilt ***** the Climbers hard, hence the 1.
lain
Smash Master
oops. the coloring of the text led me to believe it was you without closer inspection.
...or maybe it was all the weed @_@
...or maybe it was all the weed @_@
Bnzaaa
Smash Ace
Ganondorf is probably armed with the most powerful moves in the game. Almost all of his moves have the ability to kill.
Ganondorf's Jab, Down-Tilt, and Forward-Tilt are suprsingly fast and are usually used as followups to Side-B and kill moves on stage. F-Smash can kill insanely early if you managed to get hit by it (especially Up-Angled,) and Up-Smash has Inturrupted as Soon As frames. It reaches through the platforms on Battlefield so keep that in mind. Down-Smash hits on both sides, but it has terrible startup lag, end lag, and is unsafe on the shield. Ganon's down smash is never used
Up-Tilt is one of the most damaging tilts in the game that can kill insanely early if it connects. It has wind properties that pull you into the attack, ***** shields, and can be a useful edgeguarding tool.
In the air, Ganondorf is known to do his thunderstomp to approach. It deals massive damage, and can lead to followups for more damage. It isn't uncommon to only be hit 4 times and be up to or over 70 damage. N-Air's first hit does more damage and has more knockback, while the second hit has sex-kick properties. F-Air is a powerful move that is still a good finisher. It comes out quick with a somewhat deceptive hitbox. It's massive landing lag makes it a situational move. B-Air and Up-Air are quick and have good range and power.
Ganondorf's specials are quite situational. Warlock Punch is extremely powerful, especially when reversed, but is difficult to land. His Side-B is one of his favored moves, but it's kind of limited in this matchup with two Climbers present. He can't techchase without being hit, but he gains Superarmor when he grabs a Climber with this move. Up-B has almost non-existant hitstun and little knockback when it catches a Climber. If he manages to catch a Climber with the other one not present, you can most likely N-Air him upon release. Ganondorf mains are aware of this and won't use Up-B as an offensive attack. The other Climber will hit him out of his attack most of the time. When recovering, he can uppercut you if you are close to the edge, so lookout for that.
Ganondorf's Wizard Foot (Down-B) has many uses. On the ground it can push you off the stage. He can also use it to cancel at the edge with little lag. In the air, it can spike with great power, or kill you off the top at around 100. It also has a landing hitbox.
Ganondorf is pretty good at edgeguarding. All his aerials knock you out of Squall Hammer. Down-B when used in the air can eaisly kill as well. Up-B is probably a better recovery option.
Ganondorf can **** Nana with his powerful moves if the Climbers are seperated.
Ganondorf does ok against SoPo. SoPo can chaingrab him for a while and can knock him off stage. He can knock us out pretty far with any move. His approach is still kind of limited though.
Ganondorf is the slowest character in terms of mobility on average. He also has no projectile. Blizzard stops his approaches and beats everything he has. Desynched Ice Blocks can force an approach while alternating Blizzards give him trouble up close. Squall Hammer racks up the damage. Popping him in the air for juggling works very well at low percents. He doesn't have a great recovery, so killing him at the sides works well. Spiking him also works pretty well. Getting the grab shouldn't be too difficult and chaingrabing him shouldn't be too bad either. Rising B-Air out-spaces him and should be able to hit him.
Delfino is most likely their best stage. With the water for easy spiking, and the Side-B to drag you into the water, easier Gannoncides (though he can eaisly grab the wrong Climber
) and platforms that make it easier to attack though, it is not a stage to take him lightly. Norfair is another stage to consider banning. Stages that have uneven terrain like Lylat makes it more difficult for him to perform his attacks smoothly. Flat stages like Final Destination make it extremely easy to limit him.
I think it's 95-5 in our favor. Ganondorf has power, but will struggle to get attacks in.
Ganondorf's Jab, Down-Tilt, and Forward-Tilt are suprsingly fast and are usually used as followups to Side-B and kill moves on stage. F-Smash can kill insanely early if you managed to get hit by it (especially Up-Angled,) and Up-Smash has Inturrupted as Soon As frames. It reaches through the platforms on Battlefield so keep that in mind. Down-Smash hits on both sides, but it has terrible startup lag, end lag, and is unsafe on the shield. Ganon's down smash is never used
Up-Tilt is one of the most damaging tilts in the game that can kill insanely early if it connects. It has wind properties that pull you into the attack, ***** shields, and can be a useful edgeguarding tool.
In the air, Ganondorf is known to do his thunderstomp to approach. It deals massive damage, and can lead to followups for more damage. It isn't uncommon to only be hit 4 times and be up to or over 70 damage. N-Air's first hit does more damage and has more knockback, while the second hit has sex-kick properties. F-Air is a powerful move that is still a good finisher. It comes out quick with a somewhat deceptive hitbox. It's massive landing lag makes it a situational move. B-Air and Up-Air are quick and have good range and power.
Ganondorf's specials are quite situational. Warlock Punch is extremely powerful, especially when reversed, but is difficult to land. His Side-B is one of his favored moves, but it's kind of limited in this matchup with two Climbers present. He can't techchase without being hit, but he gains Superarmor when he grabs a Climber with this move. Up-B has almost non-existant hitstun and little knockback when it catches a Climber. If he manages to catch a Climber with the other one not present, you can most likely N-Air him upon release. Ganondorf mains are aware of this and won't use Up-B as an offensive attack. The other Climber will hit him out of his attack most of the time. When recovering, he can uppercut you if you are close to the edge, so lookout for that.
Ganondorf's Wizard Foot (Down-B) has many uses. On the ground it can push you off the stage. He can also use it to cancel at the edge with little lag. In the air, it can spike with great power, or kill you off the top at around 100. It also has a landing hitbox.
Ganondorf is pretty good at edgeguarding. All his aerials knock you out of Squall Hammer. Down-B when used in the air can eaisly kill as well. Up-B is probably a better recovery option.
Ganondorf can **** Nana with his powerful moves if the Climbers are seperated.
Ganondorf does ok against SoPo. SoPo can chaingrab him for a while and can knock him off stage. He can knock us out pretty far with any move. His approach is still kind of limited though.
Ganondorf is the slowest character in terms of mobility on average. He also has no projectile. Blizzard stops his approaches and beats everything he has. Desynched Ice Blocks can force an approach while alternating Blizzards give him trouble up close. Squall Hammer racks up the damage. Popping him in the air for juggling works very well at low percents. He doesn't have a great recovery, so killing him at the sides works well. Spiking him also works pretty well. Getting the grab shouldn't be too difficult and chaingrabing him shouldn't be too bad either. Rising B-Air out-spaces him and should be able to hit him.
Delfino is most likely their best stage. With the water for easy spiking, and the Side-B to drag you into the water, easier Gannoncides (though he can eaisly grab the wrong Climber
) and platforms that make it easier to attack though, it is not a stage to take him lightly. Norfair is another stage to consider banning. Stages that have uneven terrain like Lylat makes it more difficult for him to perform his attacks smoothly. Flat stages like Final Destination make it extremely easy to limit him. I think it's 95-5 in our favor. Ganondorf has power, but will struggle to get attacks in.
lain
Smash Master
And here comes Bnzaaa with a 7 page paper on another ridiculous matchup.
Detailed, but it doesn't require more then "desync blizzard or do aerials and you'll win. you don't even NEED to cg!"
i mean hell at least you're not a lazy ******* like me.
Detailed, but it doesn't require more then "desync blizzard or do aerials and you'll win. you don't even NEED to cg!"
i mean hell at least you're not a lazy ******* like me.
TP
Smash Master
Hi, I'm a Ganon main. Anyone who claims this match is 8-2 is insane. How the **** is Ganon going to win this? If we magically kill one of the climbers, Ganon can **** with Uair and Murder Choke like there is no tomorrow. However, that will NEVER happen. Call it 100-0 or 95-5. We fear this as much as we fear Sheik. All you need to do is be patient and be aware of the awesome range of Ganon's Dtilt and nothing bad will ever happen to you.
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
Just going to say, Down smash doesn't do anything. It's not used nonaccidentally, pretty much - it's never the optimal choice.
Although I'd be interested to hear if it does operate differently on your unique character.
Up-tilt is definitely more useful than Warlock Punch. Some Ganons like to talk about pawnch same as Falcon, but really, it's utilt that does the heavy lifting in the certain situations it's good for (ledge guarding, blundered returns to the ground from high, that kind of thing). Punch only shows up for really bad mistakes, like missing a Rest (or even hitting one for nonlethal damage).
Really, for all this great analysis, the game comes down to this. These things beat us. They aren't just your best moves in a one-sided match. They are unsolvable with Ganondorf's options as we know them. This you say.
95-5, man. The only way Ganon can make this begin to work is if we come up with something to beat the Blizzard, and the fact there's two of you completely stopping his Flame Choke game.
Twilight Prince, I fear this matchup more than I fear Sheik. Sheik still has limits. Sheik occupies positions and flings limbs at you to grab and murdalize, in theory. Ice Climbers wield wind and ice. And hammers. And they're the fighter game mind-blowing equivalent of quantum superposition. A character of singular powerful defense just doesn't work against that. They change the rules, and Ganon isn't able to fight without the rules that are changed.
Now, to possibly undercut everything I just said... would consistent Flight of Ganon (air dodge version) give Ganon anything useful in this match? I mean, would Ice Climbers not like to face a Ganon who could come at you by falling from above, just supposing it could happen?
Last, I noticed the systematic use of double Ns. I'll spare the link to the lecture website since these are your boards, but come on man. One N, please.
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