I Will Believe In Myself: Miles "Tails" Prower Support Thread

[2BITfoxy]

So I was watching this video made by Nintendo Life and around at 14:46, Alex mentioned Tails. He said that Tails 'was a whiny brat' and that he had no moveset potential.
I admit I didn't like what they did with Tails in Forces, but he isn't THAT unlikable. Elise from Sonic 06 was way worse. At least Tails in Forces did something useful.
And also this man has clearly not played Tails Skypatrol, Tails Adventure, Battle or Advance 3. Hell, he could even use his Mech from Adventure 2 as a fighter, for some weird reason. Despite claiming he's played Adventure 2, he doesn't clearly remember the Mech levels. It's bad enough he put down my boy Sora in a previous video and now Tails.

Alex needs to be put in his place, man. Argh, this s**t is exactly why I swore off youtube, the environment there is utterly toxic and just full of people needlessly mudslinging at each other, bringing one another down just for liking things.
Putting down Sora and Tails? I'm tempted to pop back over to Youtube JUST to dislike his video.

In what way is Tails even whiny? Or a brat? That is utter ignorant BS, Tails is about the sweetest character I know in fiction, only a few being as likeable.

And f*** any arguments over moveset after a Piranha Plant got in the game, come the f*** on! And Isabelle, too, seriously people! You're just trolling when you say "no moveset." Sakurai could give a bloody Tetris block a moveset if he wanted to, he can do anything. And Tails literally has 26 years of history to pull from, running side by side with Sonic, building machines, spinning those Tails, flying his plane, competing against freaking Mario in the Olympics, using his own Super Form... No moveset?! NO MOVESET??!

Yeaaaah... I don't foresee me returning to Youtube anytime soon, really...

 

[TailsFoxie]

I seen a few comments about this Sonic Forces portraying tails thing,
That game was NOT gonna make me feel any different about Tails!
In fact nothing ever will.
At least he's there, not missed a game in 8years[Sonic4 episode1]

 

[The Snitch Studio]

Let's talk about the Tails Spirit, and what match will it be like, Sonic and Fox (with extra jumps) vs Dr Mario? There's alot of possibilitys on what Tails' Even match could end up being.

 

[SonicMario]

Let's talk about the Tails Spirit, and what match will it be like, Sonic and Fox (with extra jumps) vs Dr Mario? There's alot of possibilitys on what Tails' Even match could end up being.

I've mentioned it before. But my guess is the Mii costume like with Lip.

 

[TailsFoxie]

Alex needs to be put in his place, man. Argh, this s**t is exactly why I swore off youtube, the environment there is utterly toxic and just full of people needlessly mudslinging at each other, bringing one another down just for liking things.
Putting down Sora and Tails? I'm tempted to pop back over to Youtube JUST to dislike his video.

In what way is Tails even whiny? Or a brat? That is utter ignorant BS, Tails is about the sweetest character I know in fiction, only a few being as likeable.

And f*** any arguments over moveset after a Piranha Plant got in the game, come the f*** on! And Isabelle, too, seriously people! You're just trolling when you say "no moveset." Sakurai could give a bloody Tetris block a moveset if he wanted to, he can do anything. And Tails literally has 26 years of history to pull from, running side by side with Sonic, building machines, spinning those Tails, flying his plane, competing against freaking Mario in the Olympics, using his own Super Form... No moveset?! NO MOVESET??!

Yeaaaah... I don't foresee me returning to Youtube anytime soon, really...

So This guy[in the video] says Tails has no moveset huh?
Ok *Ehem*

Tails has been in Two Fighting games[Sonic The Fighters and Sonic Battle]
PLENTY of things to base off of in those games!
Not to mention the Adventure Series, in the first one
There's his rhythm badge where he does Multiple Tail Attacks at once.

I'd argue Tails could be the most unique character in the game cuz his Potential
is pretty much Endless, ESPECIALLY his final smash!

How Bout Matchup Potential, Sonic And Tails Vs Mario and Luigi would be awesome!
BUT also Sonic VS Tails too[a callback to that one comic issue "House Of Cards"]

 

[fogbadge]

hang people had problem with tails in forces? cause he was broken over the apparent death of his best friend?

 

[2BITfoxy]

hang people had problem with tails in forces? cause he was broken over the apparent death of his best friend?

I know, right? And how broken could he be if he survived 6 months on his own in Eggman's world. The way I see it, he's still pretty badass in Forces...just, only off-camera :/ (Curse that Chaos scene...)

 

[RineYFD]

Alex needs to be put in his place, man. Argh, this s**t is exactly why I swore off youtube, the environment there is utterly toxic and just full of people needlessly mudslinging at each other, bringing one another down just for liking things.
Putting down Sora and Tails? I'm tempted to pop back over to Youtube JUST to dislike his video.

In what way is Tails even whiny? Or a brat? That is utter ignorant BS, Tails is about the sweetest character I know in fiction, only a few being as likeable.

And f*** any arguments over moveset after a Piranha Plant got in the game, come the f*** on! And Isabelle, too, seriously people! You're just trolling when you say "no moveset." Sakurai could give a bloody Tetris block a moveset if he wanted to, he can do anything. And Tails literally has 26 years of history to pull from, running side by side with Sonic, building machines, spinning those Tails, flying his plane, competing against freaking Mario in the Olympics, using his own Super Form... No moveset?! NO MOVESET??!

Yeaaaah... I don't foresee me returning to Youtube anytime soon, really...

Yep. He put Sora in his '25 character who will never join Smash' list, because he's owned by Disney( though CEO of Disney Japan, Justin Scarphone said they'd totally be onboardon with Sora in Smash) along with Phoenix Wright(No moveset potential apparently either. Yeah clearly this guy hasn't played MvC3 or Project X Zone) and Maxwell from Scribblenauts(Apparently a 'faceless' character).

 

[MainJPW]

I'm not saying that Forces should overshadow Tails' character altogether, I just bring it up since after that game everyone's been ripping at Tails because of how he appeared in Forces.

I wasn’t talking about you specifically, I meant just in general.

I can see Tails working as a clone or semi-clone. Though really, at this point I'll take what I can get at this point.

He’s been both so it works either way.

Also, I did mention Tails Adventure.

I thought it said “Sonic Adventure”...even though I quoted that part of the comment.

Where was that version of Tails in the modern games, though? Imagine what Forces could've been like. Tails could've replaced the Custom Avatar.

At the very least Tails would be playable, don’t know if that would help the games overall quality or lack there of.

Tails has been in Two Fighting games[Sonic The Fighters and Sonic Battle]

Technically 3 if you count Fighting Vipers:

This is what sparked the idea to develop Sonic The Fighters:

is pretty much Endless, ESPECIALLY his final smash!

Have an idea for his Final Smash? I think the perfect FS for Tails would involve using the Tornado similarly to Arwing Strike from Fox. The Tornado is pretty iconic part of Tails’ character. He’s always in the thing even in D.A. Garden in CD:

And when he cameos in Chaotix:

Spoiler: He uses it in many, many games.

• Sonic the Hedgehog CD
• Sonic the Hedgehog Spinball(16-bit)
• Sonic the Hedgehog Spinball(8-bit)
• Sonic the Hedgehog 3
• Sonic & Knuckles
• Sonic the Hedgehog Triple Trouble
• Knuckles' Chaotix
• Sonic the Fighters
• Sonic Adventure
• Sonic the Hedgehog Pocket Adventure
• Sonic Advance
• Sonic Rush Adventure
• Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood
• Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II
• Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode Metal
• Sonic Lost World
• Sonic Runners
• Sonic Runners Adventure
• Sonic Mania

For his FS he basically summons the Tornado-1 ( also known as Tornado 03; it combines the design of Tornado 1 and 2 from SA1 and X-shape transformation from Tornado 2 with the upgrades from the Cyclone from SA2 ) that he uses in Unleashed and Generations:

Spoiler: Until Lost World

Lost World uses a new model closer to the original Tornado.

However, the Tornado-1 makes a cameo in Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games so whatever.

Transforming into the X-shape for greater speed:

And finally firing off the homing missiles.

And this type of Final Smash makes sense in canon if you consider that in Heroes it’s shown that Tails can just leave the Tornado whenever he wants, suggesting that it’s in autopilot until he needs it again.

hang people had problem with tails in forces? cause he was broken over the apparent death of his best friend?

It’s also because all he does when Sonic is being attacked is play on his device instead of helping Sonic fight. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to see Tails physically fight since let’s be honest, he’s mostly just a non-action exposition Machine since Unleashed.

 

[YoshiandToad]

hang people had problem with tails in forces? cause he was broken over the apparent death of his best friend?

What's this? Believable character reactions in my video game? Emotions aside from snarkiness or saying "Hmph" to everything like you don't give a **** about the events going on around you? EW. I DON'T WANT TO PLAY AS THE WEAK BABY LOSER WHO GETS UPSET BECAUSE HIS BIG BROTHER FIGURE/BEST FRIEND/CLOSEST THING TO A FAMILY MEMBER DIED.

I swear it's a good thing these fans aren't in charge of writing any kind of story, they don't seem to understand how people behave when bad things happen.

Just popping in to say whilst I'm not going out my way to support any third party for DLC, Tails is the only exception I'd be thrilled to see. Great character, one of my top five video game characters of all time, and he'd be the most hype character outside of the second half of my username for me.

C'mooon Tails!

 

[MainJPW]

What's this? Believable character reactions in my video game? Emotions aside from snarkiness or saying "Hmph" to everything like you don't give a **** about the events going on around you? EW. I DON'T WANT TO PLAY AS THE WEAK BABY LOSER WHO GETS UPSET BECAUSE HIS BIG BROTHER FIGURE/BEST FRIEND/CLOSEST THING TO A FAMILY MEMBER DIED.

I swear it's a good thing these fans aren't in charge of writing any kind of story, they don't seem to understand how people behave when bad things happen.

But that’s also ignoring Tails' development in SA1 and SA2.

Tails literally thinks he sees Sonic die in SA2 and a few seconds later he's firing everything he has into Eggman's vicinity. He also fought Chaos 4 in Adventure but doesn’t dare lift a finger against Chaos 0 in Forces. He saves an entire city despite being alone and thinking he’s the only one who can take Eggman down; he’s even clearly frightened but still fights him.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say that Tails should be some unemotional, fearless badass since...he’s still a kid after all, but the difference between Tails in SA1/SA2 and Forces is that in those games he actually tries his best even in the face of adversity while in the other he doesn’t even try to help Sonic when he’s being ganged up on and just gives up without putting up a fight. It’s bad enough that since Unleashed he’s been reduced to an exposition machine that gets less and less chances to be in the action and has to do all the tech-work, but his portrayal in Forces really soured everyone’s taste.

Have you seen Mania Adventures? He actually helps Sonic fight instead of just being the tech guy.

 

[BravadoMan_13]

While Dr. Eggman is my most wanted Sonic character, Tails is someone I can't ignore. He is my second wanted Sonic character. It would be fun to have him in next to Sonic. He has many possibilities for moveset potential. I support.

 

[fogbadge]

But that’s also ignoring Tails' development in SA1 and SA2.

Tails literally thinks he sees Sonic die in SA2 and a few seconds later he's firing everything he has into Eggman's vicinity. He also fought Chaos 4 in Adventure but doesn’t dare lift a finger against Chaos 0 in Forces. He saves an entire city despite being alone and thinking he’s the only one who can take Eggman down; he’s even clearly frightened but still fights him.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say that Tails should be some unemotional, fearless badass since...he’s still a kid after all, but the difference between Tails in SA1/SA2 and Forces is that in those games he actually tries his best even in the face of adversity while in the other he doesn’t even try to help Sonic when he’s being ganged up on and just gives up without putting up a fight. It’s bad enough that since Unleashed he’s been reduced to an exposition machine that gets less and less chances to be in the action and has to do all the tech-work, but his portrayal in Forces really soured everyone’s taste.

Have you seen Mania Adventures? He actually helps Sonic fight instead of just being the tech guy.

to be fair sonic isnt a series for canon, look at the moon

What's this? Believable character reactions in my video game? Emotions aside from snarkiness or saying "Hmph" to everything like you don't give a **** about the events going on around you? EW. I DON'T WANT TO PLAY AS THE WEAK BABY LOSER WHO GETS UPSET BECAUSE HIS BIG BROTHER FIGURE/BEST FRIEND/CLOSEST THING TO A FAMILY MEMBER DIED.

I swear it's a good thing these fans aren't in charge of writing any kind of story, they don't seem to understand how people behave when bad things happen.

Just popping in to say whilst I'm not going out my way to support any third party for DLC, Tails is the only exception I'd be thrilled to see. Great character, one of my top five video game characters of all time, and he'd be the most hype character outside of the second half of my username for me.

C'mooon Tails!

youre a person after my own heart

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Wait though, Jigglypuff more popular than Mewtwo?? o_O As a Pokemon fan, I gotta cry foul on that implication. (Plus, I am of the mindset that Jigglypuff never deserved to be on the roster. RIP Meowth, screwed over worse than Waluigi)

But I'm not denying this pattern, it's something I have long clung to as a Tails fan, it's always been my main argument against Shadow or any other Sonic rep. Just in fairness, based on how all the other franchises got sidekicks and secondary protagonists first, it really should be Tails.

Mewtwo is definitely more popular in the USA and probably in Europe as well. But in Japan, Jigglypuff is or was the 2nd most popular pokemon after Pikachu and that's probably why she got in before him. Mewtwo was planned to be in Smash 64, but didn't make the cut due to time. Jigglypuff got higher prority over Mewtwo to have made the cut over him in both 64 and Brawl.

 

[2BITfoxy]

Hoo boy, I have a lot of work to do here. Well, best get started...

I swear it's a good thing these fans aren't in charge of writing any kind of story, they don't seem to understand how people behave when bad things happen.

Fans would give more attention to canon than Sega currently is. I mean, fans made Mania and it's full of references...they even bothered to sprite Nack, Bean and Bark for an incredibly minor cameo! You'd never catch Sega proper going to such dedicated lengths just to put a smile on people's faces.

What's this? Believable character reactions in my video game? Emotions aside from snarkiness or saying "Hmph" to everything like you don't give a **** about the events going on around you? EW. I DON'T WANT TO PLAY AS THE WEAK BABY LOSER WHO GETS UPSET BECAUSE HIS BIG BROTHER FIGURE/BEST FRIEND/CLOSEST THING TO A FAMILY MEMBER DIED.

But that’s also ignoring Tails' development in SA1 and SA2.

Tails literally thinks he sees Sonic die in SA2 and a few seconds later he's firing everything he has into Eggman's vicinity. He also fought Chaos 4 in Adventure but doesn’t dare lift a finger against Chaos 0 in Forces. He saves an entire city despite being alone and thinking he’s the only one who can take Eggman down; he’s even clearly frightened but still fights him.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say that Tails should be some unemotional, fearless badass since...he’s still a kid after all, but the difference between Tails in SA1/SA2 and Forces is that in those games he actually tries his best even in the face of adversity while in the other he doesn’t even try to help Sonic when he’s being ganged up on and just gives up without putting up a fight. It’s bad enough that since Unleashed he’s been reduced to an exposition machine that gets less and less chances to be in the action and has to do all the tech-work, but his portrayal in Forces really soured everyone’s taste.

Have you seen Mania Adventures? He actually helps Sonic fight instead of just being the tech guy.

to be fair sonic isnt a series for canon, look at the moon

Now, the big thing... Forces... Look, it isn't that it's necessarily wrong for Tails to exhibit an emotional response to losing Sonic. No one's saying that. But Sega didn't handle it well at all. A lot of what MainJPW says is right on the money; Way back when Sega actually DID allow us to regularly play as him, Tails wasn't one to back down or quit just because things got hard. He'd run right beside Sonic, fighting alongside him. And when Sonic "died" in both SA2 AND Sonic 06, Tails carried on the fight in his stead. But in Forces? He didn't even try to stop Eggman from capturing Sonic. The fact is, we were robbed of even seeing how he got away, left to assume he fled in a cowardly manner (though I choose to believe he DID try to save Sonic and failed, and that Eggman just left him behind to spread the word that Sonic had fallen.)

But my point is, this quitter is not the Tails that fans came to know and love. It's not the Tails we are accustomed to playing as. He can be sad, he can second-guess himself for failing...but to just put his head between his knees and await death when Chaos attacks him? That scene utterly undermines his character in every sense. And it represents the latest step in the total destruction of his character over the past decade, as Sega has been writing him as nothing more than Sonic's wimpy, cowardly, and non-playable tech support. Because they are too cheap and lazy to give us anything other than, well, Echo Characters, like Shadow and Classic Sonic. When was the last time Sega proper gave us other characters to play as in a core Sonic game, huh?

I'm just saying, there had to be a better way to write his scenes in that game... There were probably better ways to write the whole game, honestly. (Why is Classic Sonic from another dimension now? WTF?) They could have at LEAST shown Tails hit something during the big battle at the end, when EVERYONE including Charmy was hitting enemies! That was straight-up disrespectful to exclude him. This is a video game, not a novel. While I agree with YoshiandToad to a point, that Tails should definitely be upset in losing Sonic, that doesn't mean he should fail to fulfil his role as a character in an action-oriented video game. When every single other character gets a moment to fight in this great battle, so too should he. He's not Vanilla or Marine, he knows how to fight...and by the end of the game Sonic isn't dead anymore. Mourning time is over!

Ultimately, infighting among the fans is just a bad look on us though. It's Sega that failed us with Sonic Forces, they are the ones that have to learn their lesson in the end...

EDIT: I was gonna work in something about the canon in here, sorry for quoting you for nothing, fogbadge. Ehh, I'll quick say it. SA1-Shadow the Hedgehog. Filled with canon. Best arc in the series. Sega should write more like that again. (well, not so much Shadow...)

Mewtwo is definitely more popular in the USA and probably in Europe as well. But in Japan, Jigglypuff is or was the 2nd most popular pokemon after Pikachu and that's probably why she got in before him. Mewtwo was planned to be in Smash 64, but didn't make the cut due to time. Jigglypuff got higher prority over Mewtwo to have made the cut over him in both 64 and Brawl.

I always heard Jigglypuff was just an easy clone of Kirby, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you're right. The Japanese, um... Seem to have a fixation on round characters... Just calling it like I see it >.> (They love Rowlet over there, too...)

 

[fogbadge]

I always heard Jigglypuff was just an easy clone of Kirby, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you're right. The Japanese, um... Seem to have a fixation on round characters... Just calling it like I see it >.> (They love Rowlet over there, too...)

no jigglypuff was put in as reworked kirby regardless of popularity

as for tails in forces it was odd that he did nothing in that scene, really it would have made more sense if sonic had been on his own and the others couldnt get to him in time

 

[YoshiandToad]

Snip

Snip

Yeah, I concede these points are actually pretty fair, I just usually hear people giving Tails **** because he isn't Shadow and Shadow's an archetype I personally cannot stand.

I don't really mind Tails occasionally having to fulfill the role of damsel due to his age and seemingly being the most important person in Sonic's life bar none, but it does seem Sega often forgets that Tails is a capable and seasoned fighter, with or without tech.

And you're right; I did notice with the Sonic Mania shorts. I was stunned to see Tails fight again. Which shouldn't really be a shock. I'm not surprised when Luigi gets involved in the action after all, but Sega has somehow managed to make the second player of Sonic actually doing something seem so rare he's usually the last one to see any combat in todays modern Sonic games.

Those shorts showed Tails as every bit as capable as Sonic, even being pivotal of multiple occasions to taking down Eggman and Metal Sonic. I don't hate the techie side of Tails, but whenever they focus on that side of him they seem to forget he's also combat ready.

Part of me thinks said techie sidelining is because Tails is actually a little more capable than Sonic most the games where they're both playable: example Sonic Advance where he can run almost as fast(or just as fast? I'm really not sure on these ones) plus fly and swim to safety. You can't have your hero be upstaged by the sidekick in the story(unless it's to show the hero isn't as cool as he thinks he is) so Tails seems to get pushed to the side or worse; nerfed to heck as he was in Sonic 06 for his playable segments.

 

[magiciandude]

So apparently, this Hitagi fellow doesn't believe Spirits have a chance of being DLC. With that and the possible leaked DLC being characters I couldn't care less about, I think I'm skipping this game until mods are possible. Sorry, but only having two new unique characters intrigued me isn't enough for me to justify this game.

 

[SonicMario]

So while we'd all like Tails to be a full fledged semi-clone and even among the 5 fighters in the fighter pass. I would like to bring up the possibility of an alternate option. Where somewhere down the line, they decide to pop-in more echo fighters as DLC with Tails as a possibility as one of them. But at the very least, we'd be promised that Tails would be more so a Ken-like echo.

Up Special: Still uses a spring but also has the tails activated once the spring animation ends and can recover more horizontally. Perhaps the Spring may not launch as high as Sonic to compensate for this

Neutral Special: Homing attack may remain generally the same (Tails used homing attack in Sonic heroes. And if you still want to complain about it well, even the Knuckles assist uses Homing attack)

Side and Down Special: Tails may retain the two spin dashes (Reminder that the North american manual implies Tails did the Spin Dash before Sonic did), though they may have different enough properties.

Perhaps the two tails that you see when Tails is in a ball retains a hit box that is able to hit foes for minor damage even if they try to move just behind Tails’ spin dash moves

Throws: Ken had a different back throw from Ryu. So you could change Tails’ up throw since the spikes one doesn’t make sense for Tails

Attributes: Tails would also be slightly slower then Sonic as a Ken style echo so that Sonic retains his title. But being only slightly slower then Sonic will still make him pretty damn fast all things considered.

As for everything else, I guess we have the reminder that in Sonic the Fighters. Tails borrows many of the same moves, and we should also recall that much of Sonic's non-special moves were based on Sonic the Fighters. So in some ways, Tails was very much the Ken in Sonic the Fighters. Body shape is still a bit of an issue. But I'm sure we'd take this over nothing if echoes happen later. I for now am taking Sakurai at his word that there may be no Echo fighters in DLC. But it's vague enough that he may have only been talking about no echoes in the fighter pass. While echoes could come individually at a cheaper price.

The Snitch Studio May I suggest placing Tails as a Ken-style echo as an alternate possibility on whatever endeavors you've been doing? If you made that Tails Fighters pass image. I may suggest making another image with this as another possibility. And might even be the more likelier path of the two. Since they wouldn't need to add a stage and music with Tails in this scenario

 

[The Snitch Studio]

So while we'd all like Tails to be a full fledged semi-clone and even among the 5 fighters in the fighter pass. I would like to bring up the possibility of an alternate option. Where somewhere down the line, they decide to pop-in more echo fighters as DLC with Tails as a possibility as one of them. But at the very least, we'd be promised that Tails would be more so a Ken-like echo.

Up Special: Still uses a spring but also has the tails activated once the spring animation ends and can recover more horizontally. Perhaps the Spring may not launch as high as Sonic to compensate for this

Neutral Special: Homing attack may remain generally the same (Tails used homing attack in Sonic heroes. And if you still want to complain about it well, even the Knuckles assist uses Homing attack)

Side and Down Special: Tails may retain the two spin dashes (Reminder that the North american manual implies Tails did the Spin Dash before Sonic did), though they may have different enough properties.

Perhaps the two tails that you see when Tails is in a ball retains a hit box that is able to hit foes for minor damage even if they try to move just behind Tails’ spin dash moves

Throws: Ken had a different back throw from Ryu. So you could change Tails’ up throw since the spikes one doesn’t make sense for Tails

Attributes: Tails would also be slightly slower then Sonic as a Ken style echo so that Sonic retains his title. But being only slightly slower then Sonic will still make him pretty damn fast all things considered.

As for everything else, I guess we have the reminder that in Sonic the Fighters. Tails borrows many of the same moves, and we should also recall that much of Sonic's non-special moves were based on Sonic the Fighters. So in some ways, Tails was very much the Ken in Sonic the Fighters. Body shape is still a bit of an issue. But I'm sure we'd take this over nothing if echoes happen later. I for now am taking Sakurai at his word that there may be no Echo fighters in DLC. But it's vague enough that he may have only been talking about no echoes in the fighter pass. While echoes could come individually at a cheaper price.

The Snitch Studio May I suggest placing Tails as a Ken-style echo as an alternate possibility on whatever endeavors you've been doing? If you made that Tails Fighters pass image. I may suggest making another image with this as another possibility. And might even be the more likelier path of the two. Since they wouldn't need to add a stage and music with Tails in this scenario

Okay, I'll see what I can do, but I'm wondering how he'd be an Echo, I thorght he would just be Unique due to Echo having to be the same looking as the original fighter, like Samus-Dark Samus or Ryu-Ken?

I thought that stopped him being a Echo, or have I completely missed something, I am a slow learner.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Okay, I'll see what I can do, but I'm wondering how he'd be an Echo, I thorght he would just be Unique due to Echo having to be the same looking as the original fighter, like Samus-Dark Samus or Ryu-Ken?

I thought that stopped him being a Echo, or have I completely missed something, I am a slow learner.

‘Echo’ evidently means whatever it needs to. Daisy has very few differences, but Ken is basically Isabelle level.

As such, Tails would totally work as an echo. Realistically, he wouldn’t get free flight - even the winged characters don’t, and Tails didn’t have any flight ability in his earliest games when he was the playable.

The thing standing in his way now is that there are only 5 confirmed slots, and they’ve already been decided - making it unlikely that they’d include even a spirit of an inbound character. Now if they decided to throw in some bonis characters and then pick Tails...that’s the chance.

 

[The Snitch Studio]

Here are some Smash Fighter Pass Displays.

This one is for Uniques, which most people expect Tails to be, it includes the Smash Fighter Pass logo which I had to recreate, and the series symbol and logo.

And here is a Echo Version, which includes the Number with the symbol including a transparent version of the original Fighter behind the Echo.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Do y'all remember that Tails splash screen art I said I was gonna make? Well, I made it! Here! (sorry if the quality is somewhat rusty in some areas lol)

 

[RileyXY1]

So apparently, this Hitagi fellow doesn't believe Spirits have a chance of being DLC. With that and the possible leaked DLC being characters I couldn't care less about, I think I'm skipping this game until mods are possible. Sorry, but only having two new unique characters intrigued me isn't enough for me to justify this game.

Hitagi is not very credible. Vergeben has dismissed several of his claims (including his claim of Katalina from GranBlue Fantasy).

 

[The Snitch Studio]

Do y'all remember that Tails splash screen art I said I was gonna make? Well, I made it! Here! (sorry if the quality is somewhat rusty in some areas lol)

View attachment 177111

That's really awesome! Better drawing than I can do, well, on paper, I also like the 'Joins the battle' Spin, awesome dude!

 

[SonicMario]

Yeah, the more I think about it. I feel like Tails' only hope for Ultimate is if echoes come back at some point in the DLC period. So he could be a Ken-level echo.

Regardless or not if Hitagi's claims turn out true. We know at the very least a Square Enix rep is coming and maybe, just maybe Steve due to mentioning Minecraft content because of Vergeben. If one or both are true. That only leaves 3-4 spots that are unknown (Only 2 if you believe Katalina is in). And I just can't see Tails being among those, especially since he's seen as a spirit front and center while the characters have already been picked. We have to either hope for a 2nd season, or there is some possibility of more characters like Piranha Plant that are standalone. (Though Piranha Plant may only be standalone because it was free for a limited time)

If Echoes come back at any point post-game, they'd be outside of the fighter pass since Sakurai mentioned that at the very least there would be no echoes in the Fighter Pass. We don't know for sure if Echoes are being ruled out from DLC altogether. I feel like at the very least they'll sell more Mii costumes. The stages that come with the fighter pass might be it for Stage DLC, but I also wouldn't mind standalone stages. I feel like it's a little interesting that they introduce the idea of echoes just to stop at only 7 (And if you don't include the grandfathered echoes like Dark Pit and Lucina, it's only 5), which I think could be seen as Nintendo wanting to see how the reception of echoes are. And I think they're generally well received for the most part, so they get the idea of adding more as echoes eventually even if not right away.

So yes, either we have to hope for a 2nd season. Or hope we get surprise bonus stuff like echoes outside of the fighter period during the DLC period. I know I'm practically contradicting myself from post-Isabelle to prior to the November direct. But if we truly want Tails to be playable in this game. A Ken level Echo might be our only hope.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

That's really awesome! Better drawing than I can do, well, on paper, I also like the 'Joins the battle' Spin, awesome dude!

Thank you! And yeah, I mostly do traditional art! XD I'm right now trying to figure out digital!

 

[MainJPW]

Neutral Special: Homing attack may remain generally the same (Tails used homing attack in Sonic heroes. And if you still want to complain about it well, even the Knuckles assist uses Homing attack)

He can also use the Homing Attack in Sonic Rivals 2.

Part of me thinks said techie sidelining is because Tails is actually a little more capable than Sonic most the games where they're both playable:

I’ve definitely heard other people bring this to attention. It definitely makes sense and obviously there are ways around it without sidelining Tails for 10 years.

example Sonic Advance where he can run almost as fast(or just as fast?

He’s about as fast as Sonic in most of the 2D games.

In Advanced 2 and 3 like the other playable characters he can use Boost Mode which lets you shatter the sound barrier. Even in Adventure he’s pretty fast, about as fast as Knuckles if not faster IIRC.

I'm really not sure on these ones) plus fly and swim to safety. You can't have your hero be upstaged by the sidekick in the story(unless it's to show the hero isn't as cool as he thinks he is) so Tails seems to get pushed to the side or worse; nerfed to heck as he was in Sonic 06 for his playable segments.

I wouldn’t even bring up 06 since everyone was nerfed to be fair.

All of them are slow as **** (Sonic in Soleana Forest without the speed gem anyone?) and have really stupid attacks (Sonic’s Jump Dash and Spin Dash are useless, both Tails and Rouge with their dumb as **** bombs, Amy and Knuckles with small hit boxes on their attacks etc.).

 

[fogbadge]

Do y'all remember that Tails splash screen art I said I was gonna make? Well, I made it! Here! (sorry if the quality is somewhat rusty in some areas lol)

View attachment 177111

very nice

 

[TailsFoxie]

He can also use the Homing Attack in Sonic Rivals 2.

I’ve definitely heard other people bring this to attention. It definitely makes sense and obviously their are ways around it without sidelining Tails for 10 years.

He’s about as fast as Sonic in most of the 2D games.

In Advanced 2 and 3 like the other playable characters he can use Boost Mode which lets you shatter the sound barrier. Even in Adventure he’s pretty fast, about as fast as Knuckles if not faster IIRC.

I wouldn’t even bring up 06 since everyone was nerfed to be fair.

All of them are slow as **** (Sonic in Soleana Forest without the speed gem anyone?) and have really stupid attacks (Sonic’s Jump Dash and Spin Dash are useless, both Tails and Rouge with their dumb as **** bombs, Amy and Knuckles with small hit boxes on their attacks etc.).

"All of them are slow as ****" Except Blaze, People say She's the Best character in the game!
Often gets the most love also heh.

 

[RineYFD]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say that Tails should be some unemotional, fearless badass since...he’s still a kid after all, but the difference between Tails in SA1/SA2 and Forces is that in those games he actually tries his best even in the face of adversity while in the other he doesn’t even try to help Sonic when he’s being ganged up on and just gives up without putting up a fight. It’s bad enough that since Unleashed he’s been reduced to an exposition machine that gets less and less chances to be in the action and has to do all the tech-work, but his portrayal in Forces really soured everyone’s taste.

Have you seen Mania Adventures? He actually helps Sonic fight instead of just being the tech guy.

I actually think the reason why Tails was like he was in Forces is that he hasn't fought in a while. Like in Unleashed Tails was on the sidelines whilst Sonic travelled with Chip, In Colours It was the same as Unleashed, In Generations Sonic teamed up with his younger self, and in Lost World Sonic teamed up with Eggman out of all people. I think not being in any battles for a long time, has weakened Tails' confidence.
I'm not saying Tails would have been a total badass like Shadow, or anything like that, but would still just take part in Battles.
This I kinda why I want Tails in Smash. So maybe SEGA can look at Tails and say "Oh yeah, Tails can actually fight" or just do something with him a bit more.
Even if it was just one scene, I'd just like to see Tails fight again. To me, Tails is like the Gohan of the Sonic series, So much potential but the writers just screw them over.

Here are some Smash Fighter Pass Displays.

This one is for Uniques, which most people expect Tails to be, it includes the Smash Fighter Pass logo which I had to recreate, and the series symbol and logo.

View attachment 177106

And here is a Echo Version, which includes the Number with the symbol including a transparent version of the original Fighter behind the Echo.

View attachment 177107

Nice! I would actually like it if they did something like this for DLC fighters. It looks really good.

Do y'all remember that Tails splash screen art I said I was gonna make? Well, I made it! Here! (sorry if the quality is somewhat rusty in some areas lol)

Ah, I remember now! You did a pretty good job. I can't really notice anything off, other than a bit on one of his Tails.

Hitagi is not very credible. Vergeben has dismissed several of his claims (including his claim of Katalina from GranBlue Fantasy).

Damn, the one time I find my self, siding with Vergeban on a claim. I really hope what Hitagi is saying isn't true. That's just completely selling out. I actually take back what I said about another Fire Emblem character. I would prefer a Three Houses rep then Katalina.

He can also use the Homing Attack in Sonic Rivals 2.

I’ve definitely heard other people bring this to attention. It definitely makes sense and obviously there are ways around it without sidelining Tails for 10 years.

He’s about as fast as Sonic in most of the 2D games.

In Advanced 2 and 3 like the other playable characters he can use Boost Mode which lets you shatter the sound barrier. Even in Adventure he’s pretty fast, about as fast as Knuckles if not faster IIRC.

I wouldn’t even bring up 06 since everyone was nerfed to be fair.

All of them are slow as **** (Sonic in Soleana Forest without the speed gem anyone?) and have really stupid attacks (Sonic’s Jump Dash and Spin Dash are useless, both Tails and Rouge with their dumb as **** bombs, Amy and Knuckles with small hit boxes on their attacks etc.).

I always thought out of all the charaters, Tails, Shadow and Blaze would've all been the most easiest to transfer over to the modern gameplay.
Like in the video you linked Tails could still boost and fly but no homing attack, Shadow could play like he did in Forces but would be a bit slower, and Blaze would have the more graceful movement, would be resistant to fire and have a hover ability(Not quite as good as Tails' flight though).

 

[volbound1700]

So while we'd all like Tails to be a full fledged semi-clone and even among the 5 fighters in the fighter pass. I would like to bring up the possibility of an alternate option. Where somewhere down the line, they decide to pop-in more echo fighters as DLC with Tails as a possibility as one of them. But at the very least, we'd be promised that Tails would be more so a Ken-like echo.

Up Special: Still uses a spring but also has the tails activated once the spring animation ends and can recover more horizontally. Perhaps the Spring may not launch as high as Sonic to compensate for this

Neutral Special: Homing attack may remain generally the same (Tails used homing attack in Sonic heroes. And if you still want to complain about it well, even the Knuckles assist uses Homing attack)

Side and Down Special: Tails may retain the two spin dashes (Reminder that the North american manual implies Tails did the Spin Dash before Sonic did), though they may have different enough properties.

Perhaps the two tails that you see when Tails is in a ball retains a hit box that is able to hit foes for minor damage even if they try to move just behind Tails’ spin dash moves

Throws: Ken had a different back throw from Ryu. So you could change Tails’ up throw since the spikes one doesn’t make sense for Tails

Attributes: Tails would also be slightly slower then Sonic as a Ken style echo so that Sonic retains his title. But being only slightly slower then Sonic will still make him pretty damn fast all things considered.

As for everything else, I guess we have the reminder that in Sonic the Fighters. Tails borrows many of the same moves, and we should also recall that much of Sonic's non-special moves were based on Sonic the Fighters. So in some ways, Tails was very much the Ken in Sonic the Fighters. Body shape is still a bit of an issue. But I'm sure we'd take this over nothing if echoes happen later. I for now am taking Sakurai at his word that there may be no Echo fighters in DLC. But it's vague enough that he may have only been talking about no echoes in the fighter pass. While echoes could come individually at a cheaper price.

The Snitch Studio May I suggest placing Tails as a Ken-style echo as an alternate possibility on whatever endeavors you've been doing? If you made that Tails Fighters pass image. I may suggest making another image with this as another possibility. And might even be the more likelier path of the two. Since they wouldn't need to add a stage and music with Tails in this scenario

I love the reference the comic book. Sonic 2 was the high point of the Sonic series and I loved that game so much.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Aw man, I just replayed a little bit of Sm4sh for the first time in ages, and I really want Tails. Even if he's just a Sonic clone, I could deal. I just want the little fox so much!

I hope that DLC for Ultimate isn't gonna be just 5 characters + PP. Some bonus echoes along the way would be great. I'd pay for Tails as an echo!

 

[The Snitch Studio]

Aw man, I just replayed a little bit of Sm4sh for the first time in ages, and I really want Tails. Even if he's just a Sonic clone, I could deal. I just want the little fox so much!

I hope that DLC for Ultimate isn't gonna be just 5 characters + PP. Some bonus echoes along the way would be great. I'd pay for Tails as an echo!

I actually doubt that there will only be just 5 DLC Fighters, DLC was very profitable in Smash 4, so if Nintendo wanted to make as much money as possible, they would ask Sakurai or just his team if they can do more deals with Party's and make a Season 2, because in a business standpoint, it would actually be very idiotic to only work on 5 DLC Characters, and remember, this game isn't just made by Sakurai, he can take a break, but it wouldn't be hard for him to say...

"We'll, If they can do it, then you have my permission!''

I think what they could do is have 2 Seasons of DLC, Season 1 is focusing on the 1st and 2nd Party Characters, like Bandana Waddel Dee, the Fire Emblem Rep, and stuff like that and 1 Third Party/Collaboration character like Geno.

In Season 2, it's Third Party's, with Sega, Bandai Namco getting a new Series Rep and a new character from an existing series that's been rep.

How does that sound?

 

[Scottfrankd]

So I was watching this video made by Nintendo Life and around at 14:46, Alex mentioned Tails. He said that Tails 'was a whiny brat' and that he had no moveset potential.
I admit I didn't like what they did with Tails in Forces, but he isn't THAT unlikable. Elise from Sonic 06 was way worse. At least Tails in Forces did something useful.
And also this man has clearly not played Tails Skypatrol, Tails Adventure, Battle or Advance 3. Hell, he could even use his Mech from Adventure 2 as a fighter, for some weird reason. Despite claiming he's played Adventure 2, he doesn't clearly remember the Mech levels. It's bad enough he put down my boy Sora in a previous video and now Tails.

Actually, I think the only reason Sakurai added Jigglypuff was that her structure was similar to Kirby's, so Sakurai just built off that. But yeah it is common to see sidekicks/other good guys appear before villains. Not saying it's a rulee, but a common theme at least.

This is the best fan-made splash screen I've seen yet. I like how you the Lost Hex in the background. It makes everything look really colourful. And that extra shine on the text looks nice.

You could easily make a moveset just using the classic games and Adventure 1 as a base. Use Fighters for his standard attacks like Sonic, and then make good use out of his main feature - his tails. They could easily be used for a dash attack, down smash, aerials, recovery and you could even give him a hover jump, similar to Peach. That's not even mentioning his mechanical prowess or abilities from his original games, Adventure 2, Heroes etc, and you already have a character that would be too different to be considered Sonic's echo. I don't get why people can't see his potential. Echo status suited Shadow, because that was what he was originally - evenly matched to Sonic for the darkside playthrough. For Tails, I think you would be severely limiting him if he was relegated to Echo.

Hopefully Sakurai (and Nintendo) have seen this potential, fingers crossed.

Tails being portrayed poorly in one game shouldn’t overshadow his legacy as a character, that seems a bit unfair.

Also, saying Tails has no moveset potential because you only played bloody SA2 is like saying Luigi has no moveset potential because you only played Odyssey where all he does is float around on some balloons while doing nothing at all.

Don’t forget Fighters, the game where Sonic’s moveset in Smash is from.

https://smashboards.com/threads/sma...ulation-begins.434391/page-3707#post-22363032

And in that game Tails shares a lot of Sonic’s moves:

https://smashboards.com/threads/sma...ulation-begins.434391/page-5367#post-22529304

Which would lead me to believe that Tails would be based mostly on Fighters like Sonic for ease of implementation and since...well...Tails is mostly a clone of Sonic with some differences in most games anyway.

You also forgot Tails Adventure, the game where Tails singlehandedly decimated an entire army to save an island.

Tails wouldn't even need to be a clone of Sonic - you could replace most of his aerials with tail attacks, make Tails better in the air, have a better recovery, and give him the hover/float mechanic that Peach has, so he can attack whilst stationary in the air. The only special I would maybe keep is the spin dash, you could replace the others with a ring toss, tailspin from SA1 and his ability to fly. Final Smash, have the tornado reign hell on the stage, or put him in his SA2 mech and fire a giant laser like in that game. I hope they see unique potential in him and add him as DLC.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Alex needs to be put in his place, man. Argh, this s**t is exactly why I swore off youtube, the environment there is utterly toxic and just full of people needlessly mudslinging at each other, bringing one another down just for liking things.
Putting down Sora and Tails? I'm tempted to pop back over to Youtube JUST to dislike his video.

In what way is Tails even whiny? Or a brat? That is utter ignorant BS, Tails is about the sweetest character I know in fiction, only a few being as likeable.

And f*** any arguments over moveset after a Piranha Plant got in the game, come the f*** on! And Isabelle, too, seriously people! You're just trolling when you say "no moveset." Sakurai could give a bloody Tetris block a moveset if he wanted to, he can do anything. And Tails literally has 26 years of history to pull from, running side by side with Sonic, building machines, spinning those Tails, flying his plane, competing against freaking Mario in the Olympics, using his own Super Form... No moveset?! NO MOVESET??!

Yeaaaah... I don't foresee me returning to Youtube anytime soon, really...

Not to mention he suggests Spyro but says Crash will never happen in another video >:o

 

[Scottfrankd]

Not to mention he suggests Spyro but says Crash will never happen in another video >:o

I'm really surprised Crash isn't mentioned more on threads - he was the original 'Sony mascot' and would make for a retro 'legacy battle' between Nintendo, Sega and Sony.

Alex needs to be put in his place, man. Argh, this s**t is exactly why I swore off youtube, the environment there is utterly toxic and just full of people needlessly mudslinging at each other, bringing one another down just for liking things.
Putting down Sora and Tails? I'm tempted to pop back over to Youtube JUST to dislike his video.

In what way is Tails even whiny? Or a brat? That is utter ignorant BS, Tails is about the sweetest character I know in fiction, only a few being as likeable.

And f*** any arguments over moveset after a Piranha Plant got in the game, come the f*** on! And Isabelle, too, seriously people! You're just trolling when you say "no moveset." Sakurai could give a bloody Tetris block a moveset if he wanted to, he can do anything. And Tails literally has 26 years of history to pull from, running side by side with Sonic, building machines, spinning those Tails, flying his plane, competing against freaking Mario in the Olympics, using his own Super Form... No moveset?! NO MOVESET??!

Yeaaaah... I don't foresee me returning to Youtube anytime soon, really...

Just see my post above, there is tons of moveset potential for Tails that would, arguably, make him more interesting than a Shadow echo - and that's just using his classic and SA1 capabilities. He wouldn't even need to be an echo. You could make him an aerial fighter and give him a float like Peach has when you hold the jump button. Then pull from all the original games (Tails Adventure, Skypatrol etc.) and THEN the modern games from SA2 onwards, and I think you'd struggle not to cut certain ideas out.

I would've loved Shadow as an echo fighter, but I think Tails not only makes sense but would give a different spin on the roster.

 

[ProP90Player]

I might as well say this seeing it's been on my mind lately. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that people legitimately say Tails is "weak" because he has used technology/weapons.

When I think about it, it's probably one of the most stupidest things I've ever heard in my entire life. Because what's different between Tails throwing bombs with one hand or shooting missiles from his mech, compared to Shadow using guns and alien weapons? It honestly hurts my brain that Tails seems to be the only character in existence to be ever called "weak" from using weapons. There's so many characters from other series' that use weapons like guns, swords, or hammers, you know, like Sonic has also used a sword before in Sonic and The Black Knight, or Amy and how she uses a hammer. I've honestly seen more people say Amy is more "manly" and "stronger" than Tails, but why is that? Is it just because the weapon she uses is melee based? Then why has nobody said that she's more "manly" and "stronger" than Shadow? But if you say it's because Shadow has expert unhanded combat knowledge unlike Amy as she has never really shown any unhanded combat knowledge ever, and when she does like in Sonic The Fighters it's very amateur, unlike Tails who has shown very expert unhanded combat knowledge since his first ever playable appearance in Sonic The Hedgehog 2 seeing he does everything Sonic can do, and nobody says that Amy is more "manly" than Sonic. So, what makes Amy better at combat than Tails? Thing is, Amy isn't even a fighter, while she can definitely defeat strong enemies with her hammer, she's more a leader type then a fighter anyway so it leaves me very confused as to why people even bring up her being "better" at combat in the first place.

Also if you had the ability to make weapons just like Tails does, honestly why wouldn't you make weapons? A gun is most definitely better then your bare hands. Do I also need to bring up that using weapons requires training and practice to use, and here we have this 8 year old two-tailed fox using them as if he's been doing it his whole life?

I don't get what makes using technology/weapons means that you are weak, or why Tails is the only character to ever receive flak for using weapons.

 

[Luigifan18]

I might as well say this seeing it's been on my mind lately. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that people legitimately say Tails is "weak" because he has used technology/weapons.

When I think about it, it's probably one of the most stupidest things I've ever heard in my entire life. Because what's different between Tails throwing bombs with one hand or shooting missiles from his mech, compared to Shadow using guns and alien weapons? It honestly hurts my brain that Tails seems to be the only character in existence to be ever called "weak" from using weapons. There's so many characters from other series' that use weapons like guns, swords, or hammers, you know, like Sonic has also used a sword before in Sonic and The Black Knight, or Amy and how she uses a hammer. I've honestly seen more people say Amy is more "manly" and "stronger" than Tails, but why is that? Is it just because the weapon she uses is melee based? Then why has nobody said that she's more "manly" and "stronger" than Shadow? But if you say it's because Shadow has expert unhanded combat knowledge unlike Amy as she has never really shown any unhanded combat knowledge ever, and when she does like in Sonic The Fighters it's very amateur, unlike Tails who has shown very expert unhanded combat knowledge since his first ever playable appearance in Sonic The Hedgehog 2 seeing he does everything Sonic can do, and nobody says that Amy is more "manly" than Sonic. So, what makes Amy better at combat than Tails? Thing is, Amy isn't even a fighter, while she can definitely defeat strong enemies with her hammer, she's more a leader type then a fighter anyway so it leaves me very confused as to why people even bring up her being "better" at combat in the first place.

Also if you had the ability to make weapons just like Tails does, honestly why wouldn't you make weapons? A gun is most definitely better then your bare hands. Do I also need to bring up that using weapons requires training and practice to use, and here we have this 8 year old two-tailed fox using them as if he's been doing it his whole life?

I don't get what makes using technology/weapons means that you are weak, or why Tails is the only character to ever receive flak for using weapons.

Um... Shadow has gotten flak for using weapons. A lot of flak...

 

[ProP90Player]

Um... Shadow has gotten flak for using weapons. A lot of flak...

I know, but I'm not talking about "Sonic with guns" kind of flak.