I think Sakurai directly lied about this game's characters being remade from scratch.

[SuperMii3D]

I


Uh easily. If you submit one paper two years ago, and are asked to submit a new one, if you re typed your old paper you have not created anything new and have just re used your old work. Weather you re created your old paper by re typing it up or copy and pasting the end result is that it's the exact same thing.

Thats not plagiarizing. Thats just being stupid and cheating. Plagiarizing is when you take someone elses work and not credit them for it. This is Sakurais Smash, so its impossible for him to plagiarize himself

There's also no official proof he didn't lie, and look, he didn't on some characters, Bowser, Pit, etc. However, I don't think "almost" means leaving a few characters untouched aside from a few speed buffs.

Ok, so youre mad that Sakurai said that he made characters from scratch but yet they look the same. I think he was talking about character attributes and strengths and stuff, not models. I mean, how many characters have actually changed idle animations, besides those that have gotten a stance change?

 

[Petrichor]

There's also no official proof he didn't lie, and look, he didn't on some characters, Bowser, Pit, etc. However, I don't think "almost" means leaving a few characters untouched aside from a few speed buffs.

You're the one making the original accusation. The burden is on you to provide solid evidence of your claims, which you've completely failed to do. You haven't offered any proof, only arguments which have already been countered.

 

[StarLight42]

You're the one making the original accusation. The burden is on you to provide solid evidence of your claims, which you've completely failed to do. You haven't offered any proof, only arguments which have already been countered.

Because I keep getting the same replies. I'm sorry, but the word "almost" doesn't make up for the fact that Mario was nearly unchanged from his Brawl incarnation, as well as some other characters, like Ganondorf (so far). To be fair, I haven't played the game yet, so I can't judge fully, but still, the footage makes it look pretty certain that some characters didn't have a lot changed in Smash 4 which makes me question this whole "from scratch" thing.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

I'm sorry but why is this even a topic? Who honestly cares. I feel like this thread is just another attempt at bashing the hard work Sakurai has put in so far. So what if he used the Brawl models as a base line. He still had to rework all the characters in some form.

-Adding the "Cutting through the Air" effect on all the characters
-Frames the attacks come out for each character
-Customization animation added for the characters (Using a baseline for the original attack is probably the smartest thing a person working on a sequel could do)
-Knock back properties on different attacks and of course balancing overall

And then it comes down to this. Would you have liked him to start completely from scratch and have the game release date be pushed back a couple years? This is really just nitpicking and honestly feels more like an argument than a conversational topic.

 

[Booster]

Agreed, Falcondorf sucks, as a joke someone should put Captain Falcon into Hyrule Warriors with a Ganondorf moveset.

 

[Petrichor]

Because I keep getting the same replies. I'm sorry, but the word "almost" doesn't make up for the fact that Mario was nearly unchanged from his Brawl incarnation, as well as some other characters, like Ganondorf (so far). To be fair, I haven't played the game yet, so I can't judge fully, but still, the footage makes it look pretty certain that some characters didn't have a lot changed in Smash 4 which makes me question this whole "from scratch" thing.

That's not what I mean when I say people have countered your arguments, though it is a valid point. Your arguments have been:

• That they couldn't possibly have recreated entire animations frame by frame. This is despite the fact that Sakurai and his team are known for their insane attention to detail. People have also proposed that they could have used the old models as a guide, which makes perfect sense, but you dismissed the argument out of hand on no real grounds.
• That Mario's idle animations have changed in previous games, but not this one. Several people pointed out (quite rightly) that there's no real need to change his idle animation anymore because it isn't subject to the same limitations as it was on the 64 and GCN. You dismissed this as well, your argument being:
• That Yoshi received a change but Mario didn't. Several people pointed out that there was actually a major overhaul that could be made to Yoshi to make him more accurate to recent games (as well as pointing out that YNI happened well into Smash 4's development, a good point you didn't respond to at all), but you ultimately dismissed this as well, again with no logical grounds for doing so.

Every real argument that you've made has been countered. You have no evidence that Sakurai has lied about anything. You even admit that you can't make a full judgment because you haven't yet bought the game. But you continually persist in calling Sakurai a liar. Over something you've admitted you aren't even really bothered by. Because you apparently just hate liars. Hating liars is fine, but hanging that label on someone with no evidence or decisive arguments to prove that they are one isn't.

 

[StarLight42]

That's not what I mean when I say people have countered your arguments, though it is a valid point. Your arguments have been:

• That they couldn't possibly have recreated entire animations frame by frame. This is despite the fact that Sakurai and his team are known for their insane attention to detail. People have also proposed that they could have used the old models as a guide, which makes perfect sense, but you dismissed the argument out of hand on no real grounds.
• That Mario's idle animations have changed in previous games, but not this one. Several people pointed out (quite rightly) that there's no real need to change his idle animation anymore because it isn't subject to the same limitations as it was on the 64 and GCN. You dismissed this as well, your argument being:
• That Yoshi received a change but Mario didn't. Several people pointed out that there was actually a major overhaul that could be made to Yoshi to make him more accurate to recent games (as well as pointing out that YNI happened well into Smash 4's development, a good point you didn't respond to at all), but you ultimately dismissed this as well, again with no logical grounds for doing so.

Every real argument that you've made has been countered. You have no evidence that Sakurai has lied about anything. You even admit that you can't make a full judgment because you haven't yet bought the game. But you continually persist in calling Sakurai a liar. Over something you've admitted you aren't even really bothered by. Because you apparently just hate liars. Hating liars is fine, but hanging that label on someone with no evidence or decisive arguments to prove that they are one isn't.

You're literally just sitting here telling me my arguments have been countered when in my opinion, they have not, there was no reason to change Mario's idle animation from Melee to Brawl, yet there WAS a change. There shouldn't be a reason that Mario should have significant changes to his animations and movesets because it's always been a tradition.

They couldn't have copied Mario's EXACT idle animations from Brawl without using assets from it. I'm sorry, but even with a person as detailed as Sakurai, it's almost literally impossible to do something like that unless something was copied. Mario's idle animation change from Melee to Brawl is an example of Sakurai trying to re-make an idle animation and not just porting it from the previous game.

 

[SmasherP83]

All I can say is. why'd Sakurai lie about remaking everyone and maybe everything from scratch? I mean it's up to you if you still wanted expressionless characters or some actual REACTIONS that actually look well detailed.

 

[Samuel Intrater]

He didn't really specify which part of the characters were redone from scratch. It could've just been the running speeds, or the attack powers.

 

[Petrichor]

You're literally just sitting here telling me my arguments have been countered when in my opinion, they have not, there was no reason to change Mario's idle animation from Melee to Brawl, yet there WAS a change. There shouldn't be a reason that Mario should have significant changes to his animations and movesets because it's always been a tradition.

They couldn't have copied Mario's EXACT idle animations from Brawl without using assets from it. I'm sorry, but even with a person as detailed as Sakurai, it's almost literally impossible to do something like that unless something was copied. Mario's idle animation change from Melee to Brawl is an example of Sakurai trying to re-make an idle animation and not just porting it from the previous game.

You can't have an opinion on a fact. Every single argument you've made has a perfectly logical workaround which you simply refuse to acknowledge because it doesn't fit with what you want to believe.

Tradition is an awfully lofty argument to make for something that has only happened twice. You're basically saying that Mario's animation has to change because it has always changed, when it's perfectly possible that Sakurai feels that there is no reason to change it from a design perspective. Can you provide anything beyond "tradition" to suggest why it would be necessary to change Mario's idle animation?

Again, you refuse to provide evidence on why Sakurai couldn't have done it from scratch, you just say it isn't possible. Based on what experience, exactly? What makes you so knowledgeable on the subject that you get the final say what is and isn't possible? Especially when it has already been pointed out that the PM team recreated several of Mewtwo's animations from scratch, proving that it is possible to recreate animations from scratch.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

OMG HE LEID ABOHT ALMOST MAKING EVERYTHING FRON SCRACH

EVEN THO HE SAID ALMOST

ITS SUCH A BIG DEAL !

 

[SmasherP83]

OMG HE LEID ABOHT ALMOST MAKING EVERYTHING FRON SCRACH

EVEN THO HE SAID ALMOST

ITS SUCH A BIG DEAL !

This guy.

 

[stfunerds]

depends what he meant by "made from scratch." While I am normally skeptical of PR statements, this may be genuine. We won't know until the Wii U version comes out.

 

[Captain Norris]

I agree with most people here. They were not from scratch. Basically everyone has had added more facial expressions that were absent in Brawl.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I think this thread has run its course and has basically devolved into "nuh uh/uh huh" back and forth. I don't think anything more can really come out of this thread because everything that can be said on this subject has basically been said.