I question the developers testing regarding Zelda.

[BJN39]

Well, I hardly think this spells the defeat of FW elevator. As noted by Phenomiracle, if you're reaction has been well-tuned, it can be easy to just angle down and not whiff with terribad landing, OR you can theoretically angle accordingly and still KO them.

 

[Nairo]

I fell off the stage when I did the FW on dabuz in the end of g2 he did not fully DI it had I not fell offstage it would of landed im sure. Instead of Zelda going ^ she went > ^ (if it wasn't going to hit the sweetspot it was still going to at least his rosalina and I would of landed back on stage fine and have stage position and so on so it was kinda unfortunate but now I know). It is possible to DI it left or right so zelda can miss if she goes straight up but its also possible to react to their DI and go the direction they go.

 

[Smashfan61]

Elevator. Dabuz DIed Nairo's first hit well enough to miss the reappearance's hitbox. Had he landed it, Nairo would have won and the set would have gone to a Game 3. Zelda taking a game off of Rosalina in any competitive set is worth watching and studying (then again, Nairo's Zelda is worth studying regardless).

Something still tells me that DI could be reacted to in time to land the second hit. I'm going to try this with my fiancee later this week.

I love seeing Nairo's Zelda in action!

 

[Smashfan61]

Elevator. Dabuz DIed Nairo's first hit well enough to miss the reappearance's hitbox. Had he landed it, Nairo would have won and the set would have gone to a Game 3. Zelda taking a game off of Rosalina in any competitive set is worth watching and studying (then again, Nairo's Zelda is worth studying regardless).

Something still tells me that DI could be reacted to in time to land the second hit. I'm going to try this with my fiancee later this week.

I love seeing Nairo's Zelda in action!

 

[Meru.]

I fell off the stage when I did the FW on dabuz in the end of g2 he did not fully DI it had I not fell offstage it would of landed im sure. Instead of Zelda going ^ she went > ^ (if it wasn't going to hit the sweetspot it was still going to at least his rosalina and I would of landed back on stage fine and have stage position and so on so it was kinda unfortunate but now I know). It is possible to DI it left or right so zelda can miss if she goes straight up but its also possible to react to their DI and go the direction they go.

Oh, I can see it now, Zelda does indeed fall off the stage before UpB'ing! Thanks, this gives me back some hope.

I actually didn't get the point you were trying to make with this vid, (It didn't load up to a time, if it was supposed to?) lol. Mind elaborating on what move you meant?

Strange, the time stamp works on my computer. It's 5:42 anyway.

 

[Mericus]

Honestly now, idk if there was a legit Q&A team.
Just look @ the 3DS's bugs and the nonsense that went on for pre-Wii U ( and Wii U still is ugh.. at times ).

Alot needs to be tidied up, and even tho I understand they want to wait for patches,
the 3DS's prior release felt like we were Beta testing the game for them

 

[Tino]

She does feel way worse than she was in Brawl when I first picked her up as a secondary. She's just not the same in this game.

 

[Hylian Shadow]

Overall I think Zelda is better off in this game, simply due to the game's engine suiting the character more. Things like Farore Elevator help too. I don't understand anyone who thinks Zelda is worse off than she was in Melee or Brawl - but I agree she's not that well off in this game. Losing the option to Down B and turn into a better character was crippling, lol.

 

[Brinzy]

While I think she's overall better in this game, many of her buffs were met with plenty of nerfs and basically left her more or less in the same position.

I never thought they could make Din's worse, and I never thought Usmash would be one of her worst moves.

 

[Phenomiracle]

I say it's still too far early to say she's better by new physics alone.

Give the meta some time, and we might just see a handful of her bad MUs turn practically unwinnable. It'll be Brawl all over again.

 

[Brinzy]

This goes back to something I have said before.

Zelda needs either a true rework or significant buffs. A partial rework with partial buffs would be nice.

I don't know about anyone else here, but it's getting pretty tiring having an aerial that is completely and totally outclassed by that same exact aerial. I think they should just significantly buff fair's sourspot damage and knockback, seeing how its sweetspot is already inferior to bair. It wouldn't make for a good approach, but it would give Zelda an option when you can't nair your target. You know those times when you know you can get a hit on someone, but you know you can't actually sweetspot fair and they're too far to nair? Yeah...

Also speaking on aerials, why did they nerf nair's damage? 11% for hitting with the back isn't too bad. 7% for hitting with the front part of it is horrible, considering sourspot kicks do like 4%. It did 14% in Brawl if you hit the whole thing, and it's good at catching airdodges, so you don't always see that damage. Bring it back. As for uair, why they decided to gut the killing power on that is totally beyond me. It only does 15% now, which I'm ok with, but I think it kills at least 30% later now, if not 40%. If it was too strong, I still say letting it kill 20% earlier wouldn't be bad.

Ftilt was bad in Brawl and Melee, but at least at low %s they were usable with the launch direction. Right now, the only reason you should use ftilt is to angle it upward for approaches, and that's only because Fsmash is absurdly unreliable. If Fsmash actually 100% of the time hit opponents properly, I would call it a pretty solid attack... but it isn't! So that unintentionally gives ftilt a purpose. Her ftilt is like a strictly worse version of Ike's ftilt. They need to either:

1) give it the old launching angle but significantly adjust the knockback on it so she can combo with Usmash/bair/nair at low to mid %s (while letting her follow up at high %s - but giving the opponents a chance to escape), or

2) completely delete it and give her something else entirely, preferably something that covers her more laterally.

Speaking of Usmash, it's horrific. It was pretty crazy in Brawl, yeah. They need to bring some part of it back. Either increase the range, increase the damage, and/or increase the knockback a little (like... killing 10% sooner). Personally I would rather get the range and knockback returned. With uair being gutted and her other flaws, Zelda really isn't scary to be above anymore.

The phantom needs to be able to be charged up and held. Let it work the way it does now, and if you don't release it after the full duration, she stores it instead. Din's is going to be hopelessly bad forever, unless they rework it like PM. I am not going to touch on ideas for that, because anything would be better.

Jab still kinda sucks but it isn't the worst move. Her grab & pummel, Dtilt, utilt, Dsmash, Nayru's, and Farore's are fine.

Let either B-throw or U-throw kill at a legitimate %. Not talking Ness B-throw level, but say... 130% middle of Battlefield, let either of these kill. I will gladly take a damage nerf on her throws just to have this. I feel she has strong throws because magic/force characters in general (Ness, Robin, probably Mewtwo... Lucas in Brawl) tend to have strong throws, so I don't see why she can't have a kill throw.

Give her a bit more speed on the ground and in the air. Just a little more. I get being slow is a legitimate weakness. I still think she needs just a little more to feel like a full character.

... That's all I've got for now.

 

[Meek Moths]

This goes back to something I have said before.

Zelda needs either a true rework or significant buffs. A partial rework with partial buffs would be nice.

I don't know about anyone else here, but it's getting pretty tiring having an aerial that is completely and totally outclassed by that same exact aerial. I think they should just significantly buff fair's sourspot damage and knockback, seeing how its sweetspot is already inferior to bair. It wouldn't make for a good approach, but it would give Zelda an option when you can't nair your target. You know those times when you know you can get a hit on someone, but you know you can't actually sweetspot fair and they're too far to nair? Yeah...

Also speaking on aerials, why did they nerf nair's damage? 11% for hitting with the back isn't too bad. 7% for hitting with the front part of it is horrible, considering sourspot kicks do like 4%. It did 14% in Brawl if you hit the whole thing, and it's good at catching airdodges, so you don't always see that damage. Bring it back. As for uair, why they decided to gut the killing power on that is totally beyond me. It only does 15% now, which I'm ok with, but I think it kills at least 30% later now, if not 40%. If it was too strong, I still say letting it kill 20% earlier wouldn't be bad.

Ftilt was bad in Brawl and Melee, but at least at low %s they were usable with the launch direction. Right now, the only reason you should use ftilt is to angle it upward for approaches, and that's only because Fsmash is absurdly unreliable. If Fsmash actually 100% of the time hit opponents properly, I would call it a pretty solid attack... but it isn't! So that unintentionally gives ftilt a purpose. Her ftilt is like a strictly worse version of Ike's ftilt. They need to either:

1) give it the old launching angle but significantly adjust the knockback on it so she can combo with Usmash/bair/nair at low to mid %s (while letting her follow up at high %s - but giving the opponents a chance to escape), or

2) completely delete it and give her something else entirely, preferably something that covers her more laterally.

Speaking of Usmash, it's horrific. It was pretty crazy in Brawl, yeah. They need to bring some part of it back. Either increase the range, increase the damage, and/or increase the knockback a little (like... killing 10% sooner). Personally I would rather get the range and knockback returned. With uair being gutted and her other flaws, Zelda really isn't scary to be above anymore.

The phantom needs to be able to be charged up and held. Let it work the way it does now, and if you don't release it after the full duration, she stores it instead. Din's is going to be hopelessly bad forever, unless they rework it like PM. I am not going to touch on ideas for that, because anything would be better.

Jab still kinda sucks but it isn't the worst move. Her grab & pummel, Dtilt, utilt, Dsmash, Nayru's, and Farore's are fine.

Let either B-throw or U-throw kill at a legitimate %. Not talking Ness B-throw level, but say... 130% middle of Battlefield, let either of these kill. I will gladly take a damage nerf on her throws just to have this. I feel she has strong throws because magic/force characters in general (Ness, Robin, probably Mewtwo... Lucas in Brawl) tend to have strong throws, so I don't see why she can't have a kill throw.

Give her a bit more speed on the ground and in the air. Just a little more. I get being slow is a legitimate weakness. I still think she needs just a little more to feel like a full character.

... That's all I've got for now.

oh boy

i agree with fair buff and sourspot kick buff

i guess the less damage nair deals, the better it is for combo, as it wont lainch that far...but that questionable

uair's range was buffed like 2.5 times all around. the nerf is sad but it still kills

usmash nerf is disappointing as well, but i guess it would be "too good" by zelda standards with the new airdodge mechanics.

the phantom...yeah it's a letdown

her jab is the slowest jab of all...but it has some good follow ups so thats nice

her throws...nintendo stated that psychic using characters have stronger throws...and aside from the general damage of her throws and a good dthrow, her other throw knockback is not that strong, but they deal good damage at least. poor marth, getting only 4-5 percent for his throws... i feel like uthrow needs more utility

she needs better moves to deal with SH aerials, i find that her biggest weakness, not having many good moves to hit opponents near the ground..

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

I only wish for a safer Din's Fire (not free fall for starters) and perhaps give the Phantom a windbox so he can push at least. Storing charged Phantom would be awesome too, but Im not sure how far they want to go as changing moves mechanics.
Or give Zelda Diddy's ability to chain Dthrow to Uair at almost any % for teh giggles.

 

[Gay Ginger]

she needs better moves to deal with SH aerials, i find that her biggest weakness, not having many good moves to hit opponents anywhere

Fixed

 

[Meek Moths]

Fixed

 

[mountain_tiger]

I don't know about anyone else here, but it's getting pretty tiring having an aerial that is completely and totally outclassed by that same exact aerial. I think they should just significantly buff fair's sourspot damage and knockback, seeing how its sweetspot is already inferior to bair. It wouldn't make for a good approach, but it would give Zelda an option when you can't nair your target. You know those times when you know you can get a hit on someone, but you know you can't actually sweetspot fair and they're too far to nair? Yeah...

You know, I reckon it'd be quite interesting to have Fair reverted back similar to how it was in Melee, whilst keeping Bair as it is now (or, ideally, how it was in Brawl!). Have landing lag at 10-12 frames, and add hitboxes similar to Samus' Bair - 10% and low knockback if sourspotted (but not so low that it's unsafe on hit), 14% and moderate knockback if sweetspotted.

Having two identical aerials really is annoying...

Also speaking on aerials, why did they nerf nair's damage? 11% for hitting with the back isn't too bad. 7% for hitting with the front part of it is horrible, considering sourspot kicks do like 4%. It did 14% in Brawl if you hit the whole thing, and it's good at catching airdodges, so you don't always see that damage. Bring it back. As for uair, why they decided to gut the killing power on that is totally beyond me. It only does 15% now, which I'm ok with, but I think it kills at least 30% later now, if not 40%. If it was too strong, I still say letting it kill 20% earlier wouldn't be bad.

Agreed on all of this.

Ftilt was bad in Brawl and Melee, but at least at low %s they were usable with the launch direction. Right now, the only reason you should use ftilt is to angle it upward for approaches, and that's only because Fsmash is absurdly unreliable. If Fsmash actually 100% of the time hit opponents properly, I would call it a pretty solid attack... but it isn't! So that unintentionally gives ftilt a purpose. Her ftilt is like a strictly worse version of Ike's ftilt. They need to either:

1) give it the old launching angle but significantly adjust the knockback on it so she can combo with Usmash/bair/nair at low to mid %s (while letting her follow up at high %s - but giving the opponents a chance to escape), or

2) completely delete it and give her something else entirely, preferably something that covers her more laterally.

FTilt isn't so bad - they just need to get rid of that darn blindspot it has! Though your first idea is pretty cool too - FTilt into USmash would be awesome.

Speaking of Usmash, it's horrific. It was pretty crazy in Brawl, yeah. They need to bring some part of it back. Either increase the range, increase the damage, and/or increase the knockback a little (like... killing 10% sooner). Personally I would rather get the range and knockback returned. With uair being gutted and her other flaws, Zelda really isn't scary to be above anymore.

I'd argue USmash wasn't all that scary in Brawl either, but yeah, the range being nerfed was pointless.

The phantom needs to be able to be charged up and held. Let it work the way it does now, and if you don't release it after the full duration, she stores it instead. Din's is going to be hopelessly bad forever, unless they rework it like PM. I am not going to touch on ideas for that, because anything would be better.

Chargeable Phantom would be great as well.

As for Din's Fire, how about something similar to Palutena's Autoreticle, where the pre-blast appears where the opponent currently is, and goes off half a second later?

Jab still kinda sucks but it isn't the worst move. Her grab & pummel, Dtilt, utilt, Dsmash, Nayru's, and Farore's are fine.

Jab would be fine if Zelda had some other move that replicated its function... the problem is that she doesn't. :/ A small damage buff would be nice though (maybe 3% per blast rather than 2%?)

Let either B-throw or U-throw kill at a legitimate %. Not talking Ness B-throw level, but say... 130% middle of Battlefield, let either of these kill. I will gladly take a damage nerf on her throws just to have this. I feel she has strong throws because magic/force characters in general (Ness, Robin, probably Mewtwo... Lucas in Brawl) tend to have strong throws, so I don't see why she can't have a kill throw.

100% agreed. BThrow seems like the best candidate IMO.

Give her a bit more speed on the ground and in the air. Just a little more. I get being slow is a legitimate weakness. I still think she needs just a little more to feel like a full character.

... That's all I've got for now.

TBF, I'm pretty sure that covers most of the changes that would make Zelda decent.

 

[Macchiato]

My Dream Zelda

Jab: imo doesn't need changes
Utilt: Increase Hitstun
Ftilt: Make it kill 20% earlier
Dtilt: Make it Brawl Dtilt
Dash Attack: Make the sweetspot bigger
Dsmash: Give her Brawl Dsmash
Usmash: Give her Brawl Usmash
Fsmash: Make it impossible to fall out of
Nair: Increase the damage
Fair/Bair: Increase the sourspot damage
Dair: Doesn't need changes
Uair: Make It faster on startup
Grab: faster startup
Uthrow: Doesn't need changes
Bthrow: Make it kill 20% earlier
Fthrow: Let it combo into fair
Dthrow: Doesn't Need changes
Nayru's Love: Less Endlag
Farore's Wind: Doesn't need changes
Phantom Slash: Make it Chargeable
Din's Fire: Make it explode faster on release and make it travel faster

If this happens my life will be complete

 

[evmaxy54]

Jab needs a 0.7% damage buff

 

[Meek Moths]

Jab needs a 0.7% damage buff

whoa there, we dont want zelda to become the next meta knight

 

[Lil Puddin]

The more I use Zelda, the more I notice people are mentioning the things that don't hold Zelda back. Some just differently used when compared to the vast majority of the roster.

Her design based problems imo:
Smash connectivity Usmash and Fsmash
HELPLESS STATE AFTER DIN'S FIRE WHAT
HUGE delay after midair can can dropkicks
Phantom without storage/cancellation
EZ dodge and roll mechanics

Ftilt defense: It has kill potential now and is speedy. The range justifies its very small dead zone. Zelda is a keep away character, not ezmode bum-rush like Falcon. So space space space. She needs all that personal space to store her faboolissness. She ain't got no time for losers all up in her grill tryin to get her digits and cramp her style. Naaah gurl. They just don't know bout my homegirl Zeldoo.

Utilt defense: Went from a very good kill move with defensive qualities to a combo starting move with defensive qualities. Makes sense. A tilt being that good is unfair. Especially in an aerial-game heavy fight.

Dtilt defense: Dtilt is what you use to poke at people who do not respect your space and maybe follow up. Jab is also an option. Using them back to back is not the Zeldoo way. Who is she supposed to be? Sheik?! Oh wait...

FW elevator defense: it kills at 60%-70% and FW1 is very fast. It better be easily escaped from. But you should only use it to punish people who are helplessly falling... Since they're holding down.

Uair defense: its basically x2 bigger and has a suction effect. A 20%-30% more damage requirement is fair. It is a better punishment tool for aerial jugglers who whiff an attack below you. Or fastfall and use Usmash... One of it's very limited uses.

Nair defense: very strong catcher, made to collect targets while moving. It being weaker is only fair since that means you can pretend to be Ness and chain one aerial into another. Also adding 11%-14% damage while using a very safe spammy move is 2Diddy4Zeldoo2handle.

Bair/Fair defense: Technically speaking... Her Bair is a mule kick and her Fair is a spin kick both done in her own way while wearing a fabooliss dress. Dropkicks/Mule Kicks hurt more than a spin kick that hits you from the front and not the side. Also, she is more vulnerable and lacking in options from behind. So landing a hit is more crucial with Bair being her only keep away option. Fair/Easy Nair for forward options.

Grab defense: srsly gurl dey r perfict. WFT on the other hand is lmao worthy.

Jab defense: fast panic button option. Surprisingly good at keeping Zeldoo safe if someone is close and moving closer still. You use jabs to rack up damage as a direct fighter. As a keep away fighter, jab is supposed to be a push away move or disrupter that's hard to punish.

I'm not saying any opinions are invalid, because Zeldoo could most def be better. I'm just trying to point out why things may make sense from a different perspective.

BTW, balance in this game is based on the main modes FFA, Team, and 1v1. Zeldoo has top-of-low-tier status, but her multitasking game is just as scary as it is sparkly. She can carry teams and score absurd KOs. She is the official princess of FFA and 2v2. R U MAD THO PEACH???

 

[Gay Ginger]

FW elevator defense: it kills at 60%-70% and FW1 is very fast. It better be easily escaped from.

I'd be fine with the Elevator being easily DIable if they hadn't nerfed the rest of her kill moves.

Cause when the Elevator fails, she doesn't have enough to fall back on in my opinion.

 

[Lil Puddin]

I'd be fine with the Elevator being easily DIable if they hadn't nerfed the rest of her kill moves.

Cause when the Elevator fails, she doesn't have enough to fall back on in my opinion.

Lkick on stage
Lkick off stage
Fsmash on heavies
Usmash on tallies
Dsmash on anything
Ftilt near the edge of the stage at 60%-90%, Ftilt wherever on the stage at 120%-160%
Uair
Dair after throwing off stage or Dair into Uair/Usmash lol
Bthrow near the end of the stage
Dash attack at 100%-150%
2nd Hit FW, 70%-120%
Elevator at 50%-80%
Fully charged Phantom 2nd hit that people forget about half the time... Or it could lead to a broken shield
Din's Fire from 40%-140% depending on where/when/accumulated self-damage

She's got kill moves. The problem is they are situational depending on the MU. The ones in bold are my most frequent kill moves. At high percents, Utilt tends to put your opponent in a position to be whammed by something. It's up to you to read and act accordingly. When someone's at a high percent and they get gently swatted around, their guard drops because they think you suck so bad or heightens because they think a combo is happening. Either state can be used to your advantage because yay mindgames + triforce of wisdom all up in here. That sums up Zeldoo. Mind games... So many kill options. Which one will she use on me next? SPOOPY SPOOPY CAN'T HANDLE THIS HELP ME PLS

My personal favorite fun tip: Come at your off staged opponent at an angle that suggests you are going to Dair or Fair/Bair them to death. Then proceed to fall and Uair. It may not kill them, but it is almost always a surprise. This works for many other characters too, but Zelda has the least risk because of her recovery. Doing so will disorient your opponent and set them up to be gimped or smashed with an actual Dair/Bair/Fair... Assuming you didn't blow them sky high, anyway. This was my preferred trolly method to kill in Project M and Brawl too.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Zelda's not that bad. I think she goes even with Dedede and Ganon. Brawldorf mains would kill for her MU spread.

 

[Los4Muros]

There is some potential in Zelda. Specially in Farore's Wind. Watching Nairo play with Zelda gives me hope as he manages to use her pretty well. But at the same time, on Apex 2015, he avoided the use of Zelda because of her position on her Tier List and I honestly can't blame him. As much as I love Samus or Zelda, the best chance to win is using Zero Suit Samus or Sheik.

There's a lot that can be said about Nintendo trying to balance a game. As far as people say the game is now balanced for this Smash Bros, I think it's far from being balanced if we only get to see Fox vs Fox or Diddy Kong, vs. Diddy Kong. If Zelda had a few more kill moves, things would be a lot more easier. Maybe if taking out some lag from some of her greatest move sets, I would say there's a lot to do with her. For example, using Din's Fire in the air, causes you to be unable to do anything until to touch the ground. If this was taken away, the move would be a great option to use off stage. Farore's Wind is great for Sm4sh, but if they removed the landing lag the move comes with, Zelda would have great movility through the stage, because it's sad how good players can often predict and punish the move.

Her priority also needs to be taken in mind. Nair and Fair don't have as much priority as other Nair or Fairs would have. Dair and Uair are hits very hard to land and even if you do land Dair, the meteor effect is weak so a character with good recovery like Olimar and Villager take complete advantage of this. Her tilts seem to be decent enough, specially Dtilt which is my favorite move and I think her best move. Utilt is great for follow ups and Ftilt has great knock back. If they could remove that blind spot the Phantom Slash has, I would really appreciate it. But the real problem comes with the Smash attacks. Dsmash has no range at all. Usmash is a joke compared to Brawl and while Fsmash is decent, it doesn't feel strong enough like any other F Smash would feel.

Her attacks and movesets are good. The problem comes in the numbers. Priority, lag, damage and knockback. She needs more kill moves. Farore's Wind as a Kill move is simply too risky. Even Nairo (which I think or have seen tobe the best Zelda player) can't always land a hit, and boy do you get a punish if you miss.

 

[Gay Ginger]

@ Lil Puddin

She has kill moves, but most were still nerfed from Brawl.

Fsmash is even more unreliable.

Usmash kills later, lost range and speed, and is more unreliable than in Brawl.

Dsmash kills later and lost range.

Uair kills much later.

LKs kill slightly later and have much more ending and land lag (so more unsafe)

Utilt was changed (not really a nerf but when combined with her other changes means she's lost most of her previously good vertical KO power).

In my opinion, these changes outweigh the addition of the unreliable FW Elevator...

 

[Meek Moths]

@ Lil Puddin

Usmash kills later, lost range and speed, and is more unreliable than in Brawl.

actually, the final killing hit has like twice more range than brawl

 

[BJN39]

actually, the final killing hit has like twice more range than brawl

Actually their ranges should be about equal.

 

[Meek Moths]

may be idk but i think the hitbox placement is kinda nyerked up

let's say you are facing right and there is some opponent few spaces in front of you. if you then use upsmash, zelda will end it with her arm behind her, on the left, away from the opponent, and he will not be hit by the move except the very final hit. then when you stay in the same place and just turn around, upsmash will end with zelda's hand nearby the opponent, but he will not get hit by any part of the move, thus i belive they accidentaly switched the hitbox position

 

[BJN39]

may be idk but i think the hitbox placement is kinda nyerked up

let's say you are facing right and there is some opponent few spaces in front of you. if you then use upsmash, zelda will end it with her arm behind her, on the left, away from the opponent, and he will not be hit by the move except the very final hit. then when you stay in the same place and just turn around, upsmash will end with zelda's hand nearby the opponent, but he will not get hit by any part of the move, thus i belive they accidentaly switched the hitbox position

In that situation (If I'm reading it right...) it may have to do with her central axis.

In the data, I found that both the sidemost final hit-boxes on Usmash are exactly the same distance from her central axis. BUT, her central axis may be a little off from what we see/think, causing it to possibly hit at visually different distances.

 

[Meek Moths]

conclusion: up smash is wonky :C

 

[Lil Puddin]

conclusion: up smash is wonky :C

dis. But I have been using it quite successfully as of late. It's last hit seems to kill the same as Brawl, but the hitbox has been cleaned up.

Brawl: entire area above her is active magic. Easymode Usmash.

Sm4sh: she draws out magic as she waves her hand to make up the final huge hit. Small moving majestic jazz hand glitter magic, etc.

 

[Gay Ginger]

It's last hit seems to kill the same as Brawl, but the hitbox has been cleaned up.

If only this were true....

sadly, on top of its significantly worse hitboxes, it kills about 10-15% later than it Brawl.

 

[Meek Moths]

i like it a lot as well, it's a good oos option as it has quick start. also at lower percentages i use it as brawl (chaining it into itself) and punishing airdodge after dthrow.

 

[Rickster]

Glad to see some more posters that aren't all doom and gloom with Zelda!
Speaking of Usmash, I'm beginning to think it might not be a total garbage move after all. It has its uses. You can substitute Utilt with it for more damage. It's nearly impossible to spotdodge, so if you have a read you can just run up and Usmash. It's pretty quick on startup, so its a good OoS option.
Now I'm not saying it's amazing or anything, but it's certainly not the "unusable" move that some of us think it is.
It's also still one of my favorite moves to land, even without the electrical sound effect of death, lol.

 

[BJN39]

Glad to see some more posters that aren't all doom and gloom with Zelda!
Speaking of Usmash, I'm beginning to think it might not be a total garbage move after all. It has its uses. You can substitute Utilt with it for more damage. It's nearly impossible to spotdodge, so if you have a read you can just run up and Usmash. It's pretty quick on startup, so its a good OoS option.
Now I'm not saying it's amazing or anything, but it's certainly not the "unusable" move that some of us think it is.
It's also still one of my favorite moves to land, even without the electrical sound effect of death, lol.

Yeah, I've been noticing Usmash seems to be rigidly categorized now with what seems to be a type of move category I'd call "Dodge Beaters" see: Villager's Utilt. It's kind of overall small ranged and has a long hit duration. If you can read an roll or spot dodge or even an airdodge you'll be able to intercept them quite nicely.

 

[Gay Ginger]

Usmash is the result of the developers accidentally giving Zelda's taunt hitboxes.

They really should patch that out...

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Usmash is the result of the developers accidentally giving Zelda's taunt hitboxes.

They really should patch that out...

Same with Din's Fire.

 

[Lange]

As a Zelda main in brawl I'm really sad with her smash 4 changes. I'm glad about some buffs like the knock back of The Up B, but they did a lot of uneeded nerfs too with few buffs. I might be able to see it from a developer perspective in the sense of all gameplay modes but 1 v 1 the nerfs really hurt. Up smash is nearly impossible to land now with the smaller hotbox and almost always has to be used either when right against the opponent or above. In Brawl it was a good move to use from above when your opponent wasn't exactly right above you since it had more of a vortex sucking effect and on the ground good as a run in or defensive kill move kind of like foxes f smash. down smash as mentioned having worse range and knock back is a head scratcher too.

Also why on earth did they nerf the ariels? N air has horrible damage and priority and more lag on the kicks makes no sense. Basically Zelda has zero Ariel approach options now and use of ariels at all is purely situation. She needs patched to remove a lot of these nerfs because while still a limited and difficult character in Brawl I felt she had good potential with some tweaks and they went in the opposite direction this time. Also the phantom was a good idea and has proven to be a decent move so far but has flaws in itself as many have mentioned. I am afraid they won't really do any character tweaking which is sad to know and if your a Zelda player we are stuck with these struggles

 

[meleebrawler]

I don't really notice the Dsmash nerf, but even then we have Nayrus to cover that.
Usmash is definitely worse but I feel it was done because it otherwise pretty much overshadowed
Utilt. Now Utilt has the range Usmash had and combos now.

Lightning kicks are a huge dilemma from a designer standpoint, unless the game focus is on
speed like Project M. Their whole shtick is that they are low startup moves with huge damage and kill
potential. If you don't balance them out with lag somewhere I guarantee people would be spamming them
all day. It doesn't matter how hard it is to land properly, if there's no risk in trying you'll just keep
on using it until it works, and people will complain. Though I will admit that having big lag in the
air and on landing is a bit much. Personally I would just decrease the air lag, that way people would
still have to be careful not to use it too close the ground recklessly but make her scarier in an air fight.
Basically more like Falcon's knee.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I don't really notice the Dsmash nerf, but even then we have Nayrus to cover that.
Usmash is definitely worse but I feel it was done because it otherwise pretty much overshadowed
Utilt. Now Utilt has the range Usmash had and combos now.

Lightning kicks are a huge dilemma from a designer standpoint, unless the game focus is on
speed like Project M. Their whole shtick is that they are low startup moves with huge damage and kill
potential. If you don't balance them out with lag somewhere I guarantee people would be spamming them
all day. It doesn't matter how hard it is to land properly, if there's no risk in trying you'll just keep
on using it until it works, and people will complain. Though I will admit that having big lag in the
air and on landing is a bit much. Personally I would just decrease the air lag, that way people would
still have to be careful not to use it too close the ground recklessly but make her scarier in an air fight.
Basically more like Falcon's knee.

Well, usmash only overshadowed utilt imo if you didn't use it for combos. If you did do those usmash combos it might be stale by the time kill percents come around. Utilt was my favorite move for Zelda in Brawl, cuz like..nobody knew it existed lmao. It killed really early at like 110% too and was a great antiair with somewhat quick startup. I'm glad it's been changed into a combo move tho

Oh, and Lightning Kicks? Umm, just make them like Melee or Project M, except don't make them stale eachother. I'd be fine with the ending lag if they revamped them like that.