I need to know why Ganondorf can't win a tourney

[:034:]

I think he does, actually. Just more G&W/IC's.

Why are we even having this discussion, anyway? Falcon is right, you are all wrong. Ganondorf is not tourney-viable and probably never will be.

Also, Gimpy was the one who always went all over people saying that Bowser really ****ing sucked. And he never really won often. In fact, I don't think he ever won major tourney's.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Why are we even having this discussion, anyway? Falcon is right, you are all wrong.

Uh..uhm...can I give you a hug?

But seriously, I am AMAZED he mentioned Gimpy. That has been destroyed so many times. I was feeling like some old man remembering that kind of ****. Seriously, he placed in the top 10 or so because HE WAS THAT GOOD. Not because his character was good, if he used good characters, he'd ****.

Well, I dun think he plays Brawl anymore, but Bowser is so good now, lol.

 

[:034:]

Uh..uhm...can I give you a hug?

Sure thing, pal.

But seriously, I am AMAZED he mentioned Gimpy. That has been destroyed so many times. I was feeling like some old man remembering that kind of ****. Seriously, he placed in the top 10 or so because HE WAS THAT GOOD. Not because his character was good, if he used good characters, he'd ****.

Well, I dun think he plays Brawl anymore, but Bowser is so good now, lol.

Not anymore, but when he did he played Meta Knight. Which is why he got a enormous winning streak... Which probably bored the **** out of him.

 

[Sgt. Baker]

It wasn't a big tournament that I went to. Just a small one with about 30 people or so at a local Gizmo's gaming shop. Not many people there can be considered really good or anything but when I watched those guys play as the Meta Knights, the Snake, and the Lucario I knew that Ganondorf just wouldn't be able to win. I almost lost my match beforehand agaisnt a guy using R.O.B. but he made mistakes that cost him two stocks which made me lucky. I don't think I would have won that match either.

So yeah I know Ganondorf won't win tournaments (unless there ones with just me and my friends lol), but I'm going to keep trying to get him as high as he can go (before meeting a Meta Knight hah). Still though, I've been playing as DK as an alternate just incase for the next tourney I go to.

 

[Alus]

i do not think its his slow speed or learning curve (he is very easy to learn.) i think that it has to do with the fact that (as a opponent) you can predict his moves almost a full second and a half before they happen... and
then there is lag afterwards... then there is like a 70% chance that you get landing lag afterwards anyway...

thats like almost 2 seconds of lag every attack!

 

[Meian]

Far too much bashing going on

It has occured to me that if you aren't using "top tier" (based on tourny results purely) you aren't going to win a tourny unless you are better than them in skill (by a larger margin) OR you are using a "top tier" yourself (which leads to a yawn clone fest fight where its whoever uses them better; I usually don't watch clone fights), which is the arguement here with Ganondorf.

Ganondorf may never win a tourny unless your skill is on a much higher calibur than the rest, but winning isn't everything to me. I love my underrated characters (Ness and Ganondorf as an example) and just the fact I can beat people with them is satisfying to show them to not underestimate those characters so easily.

As for the op's second question about vs. Marth, it still goes back on to my original idea. Marth was a character I loathed because of the lack of intelligence needed to play (I mean seriously, I even randomed with him and can win on occasion) "compared to most other characters (solely my opinion)." Takes more skill to counter this guy than it is to play him. Ganondorf is at a disadvantage so it becomes more of a mind game and skill match. Most Marth users tend to stick to 1 pattern so I have an opening to win.

An amazing Ike user I know picked up Marth and his predictibility is a bit harder since he uses 2-3 patterns that is harder to guess which is coming. I can beat him a third of the time or half if I am on a good day, but this guy goes to tournies and such and we don't have too many of those in Georgia :\

 

[LinkSceptile333]

I think Falcon is full of himself, hence the qouting of himself in his sig <__<

Anyways, if you think you're gonna lose in a tournament soley because you're Ganondorf, obviously you are going to lose. But it's still possible for a Ganondorf to win a tournament.

 

[xXZeroXx]

I must disagree with you Meian. Marth is not so easy to figth with, it's obvious you don't play with him often, coz there's not only ONE patern, every player uses Marth as they like, although some can't go farther than Fairing...

So why is it possible for a Ganondorf to win a tourney Link? Any proofs or is just your believe?. Don't talk nonsense. As I said, I know why HE CAN'T win, but you are not explaining (none of you "he can win a tourney" claimers) why he can apart from saying you must be WAAAAY more skilled than your opponent.

I remember a tourney where I was surprised by a Ganondorf (Melee) and I thought "ey, even a slow character like Ganon can win" but, as I see it, this is not going to be repeated, not in a near future, and maybe never in Brawl. Is obvious that not every character can win a tourney, and Bowser and Ganon are some of those.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I think Falcon is full of himself, hence the qouting of himself in his sig <__<

Anyways, if you think you're gonna lose in a tournament solely because you're Ganondorf, obviously you are going to lose. But it's still possible for a Ganondorf to win a tournament.

More or less joking, I never really voice my opinion unless I know I'm 100% right, lol.


Well, here's the thing about tourneys. There are winners, and there are people who can take you pretty far, and then, there are the guys who suck. (Not players, the characters, lol.)

A good player uses the former two, mainly to stay perfect. For instance, DDD has some counters all over the roster, so it's not a bad idea to have someone who may not necessarily be uber win material but can help against certain counters. I myself play Kirby and DDD, and only use MK when I feel like neither of them could possibly get the job done.

Now if we look at Ganon, he has very few good match ups from what I understand, as most characters that aren't top/high tier can still juggle the hell out of him. There's a reason we're putting him around low or bottom, because he is just that bad. If Ganon is to win a tourney, the opponent being faced in the finals has to be using someone that doesn't counter the crap out of him, which is something that is just stupid as hell to count on.

 

[:034:]

I remember a tourney where I was surprised by a Ganondorf (Melee) and I thought "ey, even a slow character like Ganon can win" but, as I see it, this is not going to be repeated, not in a near future, and maybe never in Brawl. Is obvious that not every character can win a tourney, and Bowser and Ganon are some of those.

Melee =/= Brawl.

In Melee, the hole between Top and Mid is way smaller than it is now. Assuming that the list would go something like this...

Top:
Snake
Meta

Upper/High/Mid/Low/Lower etc.

Ganondorf would be Lower or Bottom. Most tier lists just go from Low to Bottom though, which sometimes puts him in Low..

But, y'see, a Mid tier character IN BRAWL already doesn't have a lot of chance against a Top/Upper character, unless you have a specific counterpick. While Ganon is a good character, he's no counterpick for anybody. Ganondorf is good, it's just that everybody else is so much better he's just overshadowed and useless (actually he's still bad but since you guys just won't face facts..).

In Melee, the gap between Top-Mid was a lot smaller, and with L-cancelling and wavedashing, a 'slow' character like Ganondorf could still win. Hence why you still saw plenty of Falcon/Dr/Ganondorf players, because they could still win. It's just that most people played it safe and went Fox/Falco/Shiek/Marth (which is a good choice).

You all have to realize that when playing competitively, you're playing to win. You want to win, you want that prize money! If you're already a good enough player, you should really consider picking a better character, which will help you immensely. Remember that you don't have to pick Snake or Meta Knight if you want to. Game & Watch, King Dedede, R.O.B., Marth, Falco and some others are all tourney viable characters, so there's gotta be at least one that's right for you.

Now can a mod please close this thread?

 

[E.M.]

But but but..........a good player can win! YAY Ganon!!

Seriously, Ganon is lacking.......alot. Slow characters always suck. Slow characters with bad air game, delay and lag in most attacks, and no ranged/projectile attacks are going to suck.

You see, I like ganon, and CF, even though they're some of the worst in game. But I'm not going to deny it. If you're trying to win tournies where money is involved, there are many characters that are far better choices.

 

[Hoboparty]

Anybody wonder where ganons chin is?

I can't find it

 

[lax guy5]

He can! You just gotta play really defensively! He's really underrated.

 

[Dragmire]

I think this counts too

1. snake
2. ganon (me)
3. metaknight
4. r.o.b
5. marth
5. toon link
7. snake
7. metaknight

I'm scary awesome

seriously though it's hard for him to win because he's got poor matchups, is too slow, and is just not great with either defensive or offensive play

 

[Hawks go Caw]

It's sort of a catch-22. Ganon's not popular so not many people will use him, which just means mathematically, there's very low chances that a Ganon will win a tournament. And the less Ganon wins, the less people will want to use him, making him increasingly unpopular.

 

[Tenki]

Bah, I tried looking up a vid of Vex.K, but it's like 4 months old.

He's got a beastly Dedede now, way better than that vid. `.`;

 

[Griffard]

I think this counts too

1. snake
2. ganon (me)
3. metaknight
4. r.o.b
5. marth
5. toon link
7. snake
7. metaknight

I'm scary awesome

seriously though it's hard for him to win because he's got poor matchups, is too slow, and is just not great with either defensive or offensive play

did you post that in character rankings list? if everyone posted their results, Ganon would be getting a huge boost and we wouldn't be so looked down upon

 

[Dragmire]

no I should but I don't have all the info from the tourney

 

[dobee]

............................

 

[noobslayer]

Slow characters always suck.

It has come to my attention that DK and D3 are often placed in the 'high' bracket of tier lists.
Good day sir.

 

[E.M.]

"It has come to my attention that DK and D3 are often placed in the 'high' bracket of tier lists."

No **** sherlock because they have other attributes that overcompensate. Did you even read the whole post?

Ganon is slow as hell, but he also has no range to compensate, has a bad air game, and has punishable delay and lag in many of his moves.

There's not many play styles that can work with Ganon. He's ultra defense, that's it. You want to play good with Ganon you play ultra defensive. You wait for a mistake and then punish. Oh wait too bad that sucks for Ganon because he probably will only get off one hit or murder choke to tech chase because brawl has no hitstun so no combos. All that work for one lousy poke. Ganon is a bad character, period.

 

[Gleam]

"It has come to my attention that DK and D3 are often placed in the 'high' bracket of tier lists."

No **** sherlock because they have other attributes that overcompensate. Did you even read the whole post?

Ganon is slow as hell, but he also has no range to compensate, has a bad air game, and has punishable delay and lag in many of his moves.

There's not many play styles that can work with Ganon. He's ultra defense, that's it. You want to play good with Ganon you play ultra defensive. You wait for a mistake and then punish. Oh wait too bad that sucks for Ganon because he probably will only get off one hit or murder choke to tech chase because brawl has no hitstun so no combos. All that work for one lousy poke. Ganon is a bad character, period.

Few things I must disagree on.

For one, Ganondorfdoes not have bad range. In fact for a nonweapon wielding character I would easily say Ganondorf has the second best reach in the game. Next to Donkey Kong and perhaps Olimar. Ganon may not be Ike, but he can space himself accordingly.

His air game is bad, I would agree on that, but his air attacks kick ***. Autocanceled Dair, Bair, Uair, (Nair to an extent.) RAR Bair. Thunderstorming to Usmash.The attacks are quickly executed and have the knockback of his Ftilt. If he could approach in the air, he'd be wicked.

Every hit for Ganondorf counts. Get hit by Falcon's Ftilt and you get a few bits of damage and your ready for a counter attack. Get hit by Ganon's Ftilt and you could be halfway off the stage. Ganondorf isnt' meant to be a combo character bringing in barrages of attacks. He's meant to have strong single hitting attacks that get the job done.

 

[Alus]

because every move can have up to 3 seconds of lag..

 

[Falconv1.0]

I think this counts too

1. snake
2. ganon (me)
3. metaknight
4. r.o.b
5. marth
5. toon link
7. snake
7. metaknight

I'm scary awesome

seriously though it's hard for him to win because he's got poor matchups, is too slow, and is just not great with either defensive or offensive play

7 people at a tourney?

Online? I mean, seriously, what kind of real life tourney is that? You are either on par with Sliq, which I'm certain you are not, or you were playing total noobs.

Griffard, you need a 16 man irl tourney for it to count on the rankings, since people in those tourneys shouldn't be sucking ***. And trust me, Ganon will always be looked down on. Always.

 

[Dragmire]

that's 8 first of all 2nd that's top 8 ranking at the tourney and 3rd there were 50 and the only one to beat me was tapion in 1st

and no it was in real life not online

 

[Griffard]

7 people at a tourney?

Online? I mean, seriously, what kind of real life tourney is that? You are either on par with Sliq, which I'm certain you are not, or you were playing total noobs.

Griffard, you need a 16 man irl tourney for it to count on the rankings, since people in those tourneys shouldn't be sucking ***. And trust me, Ganon will always be looked down on. Always.

A. when posting rankings you just post the top 8
B. you need 13 people for it to count in the rankings.

check it. plus his tournament had more than 8 people

 

[echos]

Ganon can be used in tourney play just know your match ups, if your in a serious tourney don't use Ganon against characters you know your gonna be at a serious disadvantage with. It's simple **** have a second character you main, if you play with ganon first in a set and win change your character cause your opponent has the choice to counter pick and they can screw you over pretty hard by picking any of Ganon's terrible match ups. If your gonna use Ganon you need to know when not to use him just as well as when to.

 

[Finns7]

I also think you have to be the smarter player.

 

[Ace55]

I also think you have to be the smarter player.

No.....really....?

 

[E.M.]

"I also think you have to be the smarter player."

Everybody can be the "smarter player". But if the opponent is equally as smart but are using Snake, guess who's most likely to win.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Oddly though I actually use Ganondorf as a Snake counter of sorts...

 

[Tujex]

Dk is a counter to all top tier and most high tier characters.....Dedede can chain grab pretty much everyone no prob.

Ganon is good, very good, but he requires a lot of "talent" to use correctly. Big characters own in Brawl.

 

[Griffard]

my first tourney i didn't do so well, i'm going to learn G&W as a second

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Is Ganon Tourney viable? Does he have the potential to win a tournament? Can he win a tourney?

I've two answers, yes and no. If you're at a big tournament with a huge winning payment, filled with people who have done traveled to get to that tourney, You'll wined up losing playing as ganon 8 times out of 10. But by all means if ganon is you're main and more importantly he's the character you enjoy playing as, play as him. Just to see how well you as the ganon player can fares throughout the tourney scorewise. If you're interested in winning, i'd highly suggest playing a 'Top Tier' character, and just cheap you're way to victory. I think it would be funny seeing a ganon as top 8 or something in a tourney of 100's people lol

If you're at some small time gamestore tournament, or any small type of scene. Go for it. You'l probably win with Ganondorf. And enjoy every minute of mouthpiecing all the idiots telling you "Ganondorf?" You about to get owned & pawned for even thinking of picking him. Low tier garbage.

Personally. If I were to play as a Top tiered character in a big money tourney i'd still lose. I'm good, but i'm no great at the game. And I don't plan on dedicating hours upon hours to being one. I play it for fun and entertainment. It would be nice winning 5k or whatever at a brawl tourney on brawrl, of course. But I doubt very seriously i'd win. Let alone travel to one. If there ever was a big one in my area, i'd enter just to see how well I fare with my favorite character.

PS. There's two kinds of player's. The competitive/Win at all cost, and the competitive/fun, laughs, and entertainment. Majority of these big tourney's I see on youtube, I end up reading "They split the money" Top 5 or top 2 players or whatever. So it's whatever. By the end of the day, it's just a fun comepetitive pastime. Nothing more, nothing less. Do you.

 

[Griffard]

I lost in a serious match vs. BO X7 who's hella good, but then split with an average smasher in another. I beat a lot of people in casuals with their mains. It's really all about matchups and the skill of who you're playing. I'm pretty certain that I'm going to consistently beat everyone I play against that's at a lesser skill level than I am with my Ganondorf

 

[echos]

iv been drinking but it doesn't matter. The argument i always get is me saying that ganon doesn't suck and that he is just harder to use, then the other person saying harder to use doesn't mean good it just means they suck. Like I said before a character is only as good as the person playing them. Ganon can be used in tourney play... he can, you just need to know when to use him, have a strong second. If the only thing your concerned about is a tier list then your just a slave to the other people that worship it. Use the character that gives you the most enjoyment of playing as and do your **** best to be good with them. I understand Ganon has bad match ups, bad recovery and some other things playing against him but there are things you can do to balance this out. Space yourself properly, play an excellent defense, practice power shielding, spot dodging. Utilize every trick in the book, down b canceling, murder fist recovery, thunder storming, forward b chasing. Watch combo videos for ideas, have your friends play as your counter picks so you know whats it's like to be at a disadvantage. I don't care what people say if I play you as ganon regardless of what character you are i will take you to your last stock if not win I will make you play as hard as you possibly can and iv proven that against every person iv played thus far. I will play as ganon until he is recognized as a force to be reckoned with. And on that note good night because like i said iv been drinking gnight

 

[Falconv1.0]

Ganon is good, very good, but he requires a lot of "talent" to use correctly. Big characters own in Brawl.

No, Ganon is terrible. Get that right.

Seriously, only scrubs who will never win a tourney or are never go to a serious one defend Ganon. Believe it or not, but some people who play to win enjoy the game. I don't use Ike, one of my most prominent mains, in tourney play, for a reason.


Good God the intelligence here is PATHETIC.


Ganon doesn't even have what it takes to take you that far on match ups, because his are horrid. There's a difference between characters than need counter picks (DDD, Boozer, etc. ) and just absolutely horrid characters like Ganon.

No, Ganon can not win a serious tourney, he will never do well in the character rankings, and no one will respect him in competitive play. Roy from Melee in the end will still have a better reputation that Ganon in Brawl.


That's bad. Really bad.

 

[Kyzon Xin]

its gonna take alot of mindgamez but i'm possitive ganon can win a tourney...
i've neither been to one in a while or practiced hard core with Ganon (been working on mah chozo blood to second my Triforce) but still i can **** face with him.. i'll bring good news from vegas once i learn to play smarter

 

[echos]

No, Ganon is terrible. Get that right.

Seriously, only scrubs who will never win a tourney or are never go to a serious one defend Ganon. Believe it or not, but some people who play to win enjoy the game. I don't use Ike, one of my most prominent mains, in tourney play, for a reason.


Good God the intelligence here is PATHETIC.


Ganon doesn't even have what it takes to take you that far on match ups, because his are horrid. There's a difference between characters than need counter picks (DDD, Boozer, etc. ) and just absolutely horrid characters like Ganon.

No, Ganon can not win a serious tourney, he will never do well in the character rankings, and no one will respect him in competitive play. Roy from Melee in the end will still have a better reputation that Ganon in Brawl.


That's bad. Really bad.

your an idiot with out any valid points to back your accusations.... go back to your kirby/metaknight threads noob

 

[Falconv1.0]

your an idiot with out any valid points to back your accusations.... go back to your kirby/metaknight threads noob

Wow, that totally wasn't flaming, and brought up good reasons why I'm wrong.


And my opinion is the basic consensus of good players, not yours, that makes my opinions a bit more valid, you dont'cha think?