echos
Smash Journeyman
excuse me? who the **** are you again? close minded people like you lack the mental capacity to ever be anything more then a scrub. Your just a no name wannabe who've iv never heard of... step your game up
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I need to know why Ganondorf can't win a tourney
- Thread starter xXZeroXx
- Start date
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Last time I checked, scrubs scream as loud as they can that "tires don exits", etc. etc. You're not even giving Ganon a good defense, so quit with the personal insults before a mod gets on.
echos
Smash Journeyman
i wrote a paragraph like 4 or 5 posts back..... but thats besides the point. The only thing you can do if your meta knight, snake, dedede, falco or any of the other high tier chars is do you best to imitate other peoples playing styles in hopes of trying to be as good as the people that refined that character but truth be you or I probably never will be as good as those people. Why not refine your own character like in my case Ganon. If anything you at an advantage for using someone people have no idea what its like fighting. I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but don't say "this thread lacks intelligence" just because you feel like your opinion is somehow better then ours.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Uh huh....
So I should hope everyone at tourneys has no idea how to handle terrible characters. Um, no thanks. That point has been raised and shot down countless times.
Only noobs cant deal with underused characters. >.>
echos
Smash Journeyman
and you think copying someone else's playing style and doing the same things that have been done over and over again with the same 4 or 5 characters isn't just as easy to handle? Hey its MK hes gonna try to bum rush me and try to shuttle loop me somewhere down the line. O it's snake hes gonna lay nades when even i run at him then u-tilt me when he gets the chance. It's dedede hes gonna try to chain grab me. It's falco hes gonna try to chain grab me as well. O **** it's ganon i just got warlocked punched in mid air and lost all 3 of my stocks all at once somehow then my controller blew up in my hands.
:034:
Smash Hero
LOL, even though Falcon is right, this comment is too good.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Despite the fact that a lot of his posts can seem brash, I agree with him, and just because he's playing a top tier character doesn't mean he's blind to the fact that people can be good with low tiers, though the rest of you should know that Ganon isn't the greatest, and he'll never be. It doesn't matter if YOU know how to use a character good or if a low/bottom tier can beat a top tier - the fact of the matter is that there are several reasons as to why certain characters are underused in Brawl.
Zelda is probably underused because of her rep in Melee and because of Sheik. Zelda isn't unpopular, so it's safe to say that Melee is the clear reason. She has picked up popularity, but she's still woefully underused. However, it is clear to everyone that she's much better this time around, and so the main reason I would say she's underused is because of her Melee rep, and not because of her raw abilities, as she's a good character in general.
Ganondorf, on the other hand, stands out from the crowd anyway just by being who he is. People know who this character is, and they're probably more interested in him than, say, R.O.B. Yet he's probably just as underused as, if not more than, Zelda. Why do you think this is? He was good in Melee, and that means he's not despised as a character because of the previous game. He's a known character of the Zelda series. So there's some other factor here that makes people not want to play him? Do you know what that is?
He's not a good fighter. You CAN be good with him, but the bottom line is that he is not good. If Ganon was about as fast as his Melee counterpart, he would shoot up as a fighter. The Ganoncide and his other buffs didn't keep him from losing popularity as a fighter. The simple fact is that people see that he's not a very good character (and don't even state the learning curve crap, if anyone reading this was ready to throw that out), and therefore he's not going to do well. You have to PROVE to people that he doesn't get beaten up by a huge chunk of the cast, yet it's clear to us that he does get beaten up, and nobody who is playing to win is going to take that huge risk with Ganondorf.
So, Falcon is correct. Anyone who acknowledges that Ganondorf, pound for pound, isn't that good is correct. Anyone who believes that good Ganon players can beat good MKs, Marths, Dededes, etc. is correct... so long as they realize that Ganon doesn't have the best chances out there. Anyone who takes that, "Oh, _____ is good, but people just don't know it yet and they don't know how to fight him" mentality is just in denial.
echos
Smash Journeyman
Brawl is a much more defensive game then melee was every defensive maneuver can be spamed to a certain degree. Every character can play a solid defense in brawl so if your a safe player your really not at a huge disadvantage. Ganon also has the ability to kill other characters in 4 hits. At 0% a auto canceled dair into a up-smash into a up air dose 53% a forward smash or forward tilt can kill after that if your near the edge of a stage. That alone makes him un****ty in my opinion. Not to mention once the dair hits its pretty much impossible not to get hit by the next two hits that follow.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
I think now is a good time to mention I main Kirby, Ike, DDD, Bowser, and MK. 2 out of those 5 characters are used often in tourneys. Go figure.
I love it when I talk like I know things, people start making even more personal accusations.
And there is no sense in mastering a crap character just for originality, and originality alone. Your points are horrible, "Oh, Falco can chain grab, how generic, lets not mention his amazing aerials, projectile spam, and everything else going for him."
You don't even know what you're talking bout. There are good underused characters, Ganon is not one of them, get over it.
I love it when I talk like I know things, people start making even more personal accusations.
And there is no sense in mastering a crap character just for originality, and originality alone. Your points are horrible, "Oh, Falco can chain grab, how generic, lets not mention his amazing aerials, projectile spam, and everything else going for him."
You don't even know what you're talking bout. There are good underused characters, Ganon is not one of them, get over it.
echos
Smash Journeyman
whoa man go get yourself a tampon. Do you think dedede would be where he is at on the tier list with out his chain grab? Because if you do id have to call you an idiot. Falco is the same way yeah no **** he has other **** going for him but gay things like chain grabs deffinaly help bumb him a couple spots. O and relax man your gonna get yourself all worked up.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Yes, anyone who plays a good defense generally stands a much better chance.
The problem with Ganon is that he pretty much HAS to play defensively, or else he'll get hurt. It's good that he can kill things in a few hits, but really, what is he going to do if his opponent plays defensively? No character can stay purely on the defensive unless they're facing someone who doesn't know how to make up a strategy to approach. Also, comparatively, he's very limited on his approaches. If he wants to make a good approach, he's going to have to get his opponent to make an error for him. Even here, Ganon can't create openings for himself, and he still has to rely on his opponent's actions to safely approach. It doesn't help that he lacks a (good) projectile and doesn't have special abilities like Counter or a reflecting/absorbing ability. No, he doesn't have any of that. All of his B moves can place him in danger of just about anything.
I don't hate Ganon or anything, but honestly, his future is looking pretty bleak to me.
Also, yeah, we know that stuff like chaingrabs affect where characters are. If the ICs didn't have their grabbing abilities, they'd be very piss poor characters. If Dedede didn't have a chaingrab, then his matchups would generally start looking more against him. The opposite also remains true: if characters like Ness didn't have severe issues with grab-release and other type of infinites, they would, naturally, become better. However, I must ask, what does this mean for Ganon?
The problem with Ganon is that he pretty much HAS to play defensively, or else he'll get hurt. It's good that he can kill things in a few hits, but really, what is he going to do if his opponent plays defensively? No character can stay purely on the defensive unless they're facing someone who doesn't know how to make up a strategy to approach. Also, comparatively, he's very limited on his approaches. If he wants to make a good approach, he's going to have to get his opponent to make an error for him. Even here, Ganon can't create openings for himself, and he still has to rely on his opponent's actions to safely approach. It doesn't help that he lacks a (good) projectile and doesn't have special abilities like Counter or a reflecting/absorbing ability. No, he doesn't have any of that. All of his B moves can place him in danger of just about anything.
I don't hate Ganon or anything, but honestly, his future is looking pretty bleak to me.
Also, yeah, we know that stuff like chaingrabs affect where characters are. If the ICs didn't have their grabbing abilities, they'd be very piss poor characters. If Dedede didn't have a chaingrab, then his matchups would generally start looking more against him. The opposite also remains true: if characters like Ness didn't have severe issues with grab-release and other type of infinites, they would, naturally, become better. However, I must ask, what does this mean for Ganon?
echos
Smash Journeyman
The problem with Ganon is that he pretty much HAS to play defensively, or else he'll get hurt. It's good that he can kill things in a few hits, but really, what is he going to do if his opponent plays defensively?
you make it sound like Ganon cant hurt in return, not all of ganons moves have crappy lag. If your opponent is all over you and feel overwhelmed neutral a jab out of a power shield it's quick and it stuns, from there a good plethra of options are open to you with the space you make from that. I'm just giving you an example of how you can use your defense to play into your offense.
what is he going to do if his opponent plays defensively?
what happens in any situation where two people are playing the same strategy? The better player will win in that case.
Also, comparatively, he's very limited on his approaches. If he wants to make a good approach, he's going to have to get his opponent to make an error for him
How so? ganons dash attack has hardly any lag on the end and with about 3 of them you can cover all of final destination. If you facing a projectile spamer just power shield your *** over to them. Timing your forward b and your down b on the ground is a great way to get inside your opponents comfort zone as well.
You have very good points though my friend and i completely understand where you coming from. and i do enjoy a good debate so thank you for being as in to this as you are. Im not a ganon fan boy, i'v been playing smash competitively since melee first came out 7 years ago so im very compassionate about the game.
you make it sound like Ganon cant hurt in return, not all of ganons moves have crappy lag. If your opponent is all over you and feel overwhelmed neutral a jab out of a power shield it's quick and it stuns, from there a good plethra of options are open to you with the space you make from that. I'm just giving you an example of how you can use your defense to play into your offense.
what is he going to do if his opponent plays defensively?
what happens in any situation where two people are playing the same strategy? The better player will win in that case.
Also, comparatively, he's very limited on his approaches. If he wants to make a good approach, he's going to have to get his opponent to make an error for him
How so? ganons dash attack has hardly any lag on the end and with about 3 of them you can cover all of final destination. If you facing a projectile spamer just power shield your *** over to them. Timing your forward b and your down b on the ground is a great way to get inside your opponents comfort zone as well.
You have very good points though my friend and i completely understand where you coming from. and i do enjoy a good debate so thank you for being as in to this as you are. Im not a ganon fan boy, i'v been playing smash competitively since melee first came out 7 years ago so im very compassionate about the game.
Program
Smash Apprentice
A wise man once said, " Don't let the crappiness of a character keep you from playing them". This is true with Ganon. Ganon is not the best character. However, if you have passion for the character and the game, then who has the right to tell you not to use the character. For example, Ice Climbers. Now, I know what you are thinking. Ice Climbers? Who the **** are you saying ICs suck? See, now I would be just like the rest of you back when Melee came out. ICs were weird, you didn't know how to play them. They were just "bad". Then this guy from Northern Virginia showed up, and won a few small tourneys, EVO, MLG, Small town ****. This guys name is Chudat. Man, we all thought, another Marth mainer. Then we saw the results. Ice Climbers?! what the hell?
Yea. People who have the love for the character will take them to the next level. Its all about how much you want it. Some people think because they main characters that are given the high tier potential, that they can bash people who want to work for the satisfaction of winning with an inferior character. Who do you think you are bashing those people?
Yea. People who have the love for the character will take them to the next level. Its all about how much you want it. Some people think because they main characters that are given the high tier potential, that they can bash people who want to work for the satisfaction of winning with an inferior character. Who do you think you are bashing those people?
echos
Smash Journeyman
10epicposts
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
There's your answer right there. Falcon just accurately summed up Ganondorf's Smash Bros. career. There are some characters I will say have potential, but Ganondorf doesn't. He's slow, easily combo'd, and has the laggiest moves in the game. Sure he's strong, but what's that good for if he can't attack? I'll admit, he's good at Home Run Contest, but who cares? In a tournament, he doesn't stand a chance. Sorry, Ganondorf mainers, it had to be said.
echos
Smash Journeyman
i see ignorance is in abundance today.... go away smash child go away.
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
*bursts into flames* kk *flees*
Finns7
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2008
- Messages
- 896
With Ganon I think that you have to play offensively in certain situations. When the opponent makes a mistake they get 30+ from me easily. Ganon can kill at low percents also. If you master the thunderstomp ganon can own its like his whole bodys a hitbox and with him jumping I usually dodge melee attacks and projectile. If you go into a match not familiar with the char your playing you can get beat by someone less skilled than you.
Program
Smash Apprentice
A Smash child, talking to a Smash Journeyman?!
10lames
Anyway, Ganondorfs Smash Career? Oh no my friend, sounds like to me that you have never heard of Tipmann. Youtube the guy.
echos
Smash Journeyman
tipman is why i use ganon
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Echos, quit flaming people for valid opinions.
Ganon in Brawl is like Bowser in Melee. Gimpy was amazing with Bowser. Here's the issue-he only got in the top 10, and he himself said Bowser sucks. According to your beliefs, Gimpyfish must suck with Bowser, because every character in your eyes is viable to win. Kinda ignorant, don't ya think?
Ganon in Brawl is like Bowser in Melee. Gimpy was amazing with Bowser. Here's the issue-he only got in the top 10, and he himself said Bowser sucks. According to your beliefs, Gimpyfish must suck with Bowser, because every character in your eyes is viable to win. Kinda ignorant, don't ya think?
Griffard
Smash Ace
I agree in competitive, you have to play defensively most of the time, but it's really all about punishing mistakes. Just yesterday, i got a 72% combo off in a set because my opponent made a mistake
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
...Ummm, dude, not burst your bubble, but Ganon has like no combos, and so I have to assume your opponent sucks. A lot. Not a really good example.
Program
Smash Apprentice
Every good player must come to grips with their characters limitations. Please stop being so ****ing negative man.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
....Yeah...You're right...kinda what I've been saying...
>.> Gimpy did a full video thing on this on his youube, lolololololol. He thinks Bowser sucks, and he's right. Echos wont come to grips with Ganon's weaknesses, and will flame any who think Ganon isn't very good with very weak statements. I'm not being negative, I'm being ****ing honest.
And why should one refrain from being negative if they believe it's the truth, so they dont hurt your poor lil feelings? I think not.
Program
Smash Apprentice
No, Its just that your opinion is valid, and Echos is passionate about his character. What I want to know is why you still hang around here and bash on Ganon? Is it fun? Where is that getting you? Seriously, Forum arguments are lame. Is it possible to have two seperate opinions in this world? Oh yea, I forgot, This is the internets, and its serious business.
D
Deleted member
Guest
lol at this thread "u"
echoes why dont u let your tourny rankings speak for themselves as youve been doing hahaha! its just a waste of typing all of you =)
echoes why dont u let your tourny rankings speak for themselves as youve been doing hahaha! its just a waste of typing all of you =)
echos
Smash Journeyman
thanks for everyones support in this conversation. Falcon im only as defensive in my statements and opinions as you are offensive with yours. We could argue to the death about our beliefs in this game but at the end of day nothing will have changed.... I'm just gonna leave it at that
TheTomNookster
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2008
- Messages
- 152
I believe Ganondorf CAN win a tourney. The player just needs a significantly large amount of knowledge of him and know his/her enemy well. Smart fightin' and simply thinkin' quick. Like many have said above me, his slow speed and hard learning curve are what make people turn away.
echos
Smash Journeyman
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Holy ****, has my name seriously not been around for you guys to have not heard/seen already. I do it forNo, Its just that your opinion is valid, and Echos is passionate about his character. What I want to know is why you still hang around here and bash on Ganon? Is it fun? Where is that getting you? Seriously, Forum arguments are lame. Is it possible to have two seperate opinions in this world? Oh yea, I forgot, This is the internets, and its serious business.
1.) The lulz
2.)I'm bored as hell.
Anyways, Ganon in Brawl=Bowser in Melee. You can be ****ing awesome with him, great, but if people of skill even kinda close to you will **** you with MK, Falco, etc.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
Falconv1.0 is like the complete opposite of me.
He's cynical, pessimistic, and egotistical. I'm optimistic, unconcerned, and totally not ego-driven. He also thinks things through carefully, while I don't like thinking hard most of the time.
All in all that means you should listen to him.
He's cynical, pessimistic, and egotistical. I'm optimistic, unconcerned, and totally not ego-driven. He also thinks things through carefully, while I don't like thinking hard most of the time.
All in all that means you should listen to him.
Griffard
Smash Ace
I said this about 5 pages ago to you and I was flamed. way to be a hypocritical ******* dude
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
No you didn't, you said I was wrong for thinking they cant win in tourneys in equal skill competition. **** off, try again.
I just stated they wont win in equal skill competition, Gimpyfish is an amazing example of this. He is amazing, he does pretty well, but he never gets as high as the people with high tiers. You weren't flamed, you were shot down like a mofo.
You NEVER stated this, ****, you double posted so you could show us this amazing FRIENDLY of Ganon beating Falco. OMG OMG OMG PROOF RIIIIGHT? WRONG.
Sgt. Baker
Smash Ace
*Walks into thread, sees flamming arrows everywhere*
Uhhhh, I'll be at the Ike boards for a little bit. lol
Uhhhh, I'll be at the Ike boards for a little bit. lol
echos
Smash Journeyman
Ganon's like the karate kid, hes the best around and nothings gonna keep him down
Program
Smash Apprentice
LOL Ralph Macchio Warlock punch
D
Deleted member
Guest
well i think this thread is through finally =D
Meian
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2008
- Messages
- 63
You've said it best there and overall also. Falcon more or less knows this as well but is just pushing your buttons in addition (which can easily be ignored if you guys tried).
I may not win a tourny with Ganondorf but with the list that was being made about what would be a decent matchup, I'll likely use him for it just to blow some minds (especially if I somehow win). Chances are, he won't be my main and I'll have to stick with either Ness/Mario/Wario depending on how I am doing with them when the matchup isn't that great.