I jus saw that Lucas is Low Tier:(

[lil cj]

Yup thats right our boy Lucas is considered low tier
There is something wrong with this!!!
Lucas should at least be mid tier or high tier.
And be higher up than Ike and Donkey Kong!!
Am I right??
Can we discuss this

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183918

The H2YL Tier List
July 2008

God Tier
Metaknight

Top Tier
Snake
King Dedede
Falco

Upper Tier
Mr. Game&Watch
Marth
R.O.B.

High Tier
Kirby
Pit
Wario
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Peach

Mid Tier
Olimar
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Zelda
Ike
Pikachu
Fox
Toon Link

Low Tier
Samus
Ness
Bowser
Sheik
Lucas
Mario
Ganondorf
Pokemon Trainer
Sonic

Bottom Tier
Link
Yoshi
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon

 

[TechnoMonster]

Go tell H2YL that they are a bunch of scrubs! Freakin scrubs!

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Yup thats right our boy Lucas is considered low tier
There is something wrong with this!!!
Lucas should at least be mid tier or high tier.
And be higher up than Ike and Donkey Kong!!
Am I right??
Can we discuss this

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183918

yeah he should definitely be at least mid tier along with ness. higher than ike: yes, higher than donkey kong: noooooo. donkey kong is really good now. i do wonder why TL is so low and Samus and Ike are that high??? Wario seems like he should be a little higher. otherwise it's a pretty solid list.

 

[Uffe]

Where does this teir stuff come from anyway? Lucas being low? Is that how popular he is, how strong he is or what? I know what this teir ranking is, but I'm a bit confused what this is going by.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

It depends on how well people do with said characters in major tournaments.

So it seems that nobody is really using or winning with lucas much in tournaments.

Which confounds me, since Ness suffers from the chain grab problem much more than Lucas does.

Even so...Lucario high tier! *claps*

 

[Earthbound360]

Wait, this list isnt official right? Cuz I see some high oddities. Peach being that high? Samus that high? Ike that high? Whoah. Tier lists arent based solely on tournament results either. It's also based on matchup and moveset potential, and the creators said it was just based on the tourney results alone right?

And NESSBOUNDER, reason is, like I've been saying, the deathgrab is not as bad as you advertise it to be

 

[Levitas]

H2YL isn't an official tier list.

It's my personal opinion however that lucas is solidly low tier.

 

[Trozz]

I've been playing Lucas since shortly after Brawl launched, and people just picking up MK/Snake still give me trouble. Eh.

edit: Jiggly for bottom? Noooo...... x_X

 

[Seanson]

Hmm. I use lucas in tournaments exclusively and I do very well. I don't believe he is low tier, people just don't have experience with a good one.

 

[Omis]

That list is absolute bogus.
Samus that high!
Peach that high!
Ike that high!
Metaknight higher than Snake!
DDD and Snake in the same tier!

Overall dont listen to what those scrubs say.

 

[Levitas]

lol, they're not scubs. Doesn't change the fact that they're wrong.

 

[Jartravious]

tiers don't control how well you play

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Wait, this list isnt official right? Cuz I see some high oddities. Peach being that high? Samus that high? Ike that high? Whoah. Tier lists arent based solely on tournament results either. It's also based on matchup and moveset potential, and the creators said it was just based on the tourney results alone right?

And NESSBOUNDER, reason is, like I've been saying, the deathgrab is not as bad as you advertise it to be

For Ness it is.

Metaknight downsmash/up B
Snake Ftilt
Wolf Dsmash
Fox running Usmash
Falco dash cancel Usmash
Wario re-grab and Fsmash
ROB re-grab and Dsmash
Pikachu re-grab
Pit Fsmash
And so on so forth.

I just think that not too many players are aware of the things they can do to Ness from a grab release.

 

[ROOOOY!]

That list is bull****.
I've seen first posters post lists twice as good as that.
Why is this particular list being brought up anyway? Is H2YL respectable?
Cos after that he shouldn't be.

A list with Peach above Olimar and Ganon above Sonic will never have my respect.

Lucas and Ness both belong in lower mid tier.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

This list is based solely on tournament results, not character ability. At least it appears that way.

 

[lil cj]

This list is based solely on tournament results, not character ability. At least it appears that way.

What about some of our best Lucas mains out there?
Like Galeon, Levitas, etc.
Dont they win alot of tournaments with Lucas?

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Perhaps it's only counting certain tourneys?

Whatever the case, I still find it very strange that Ness is mid and Lucas is low.

Most importantly though, they can both still be used well against Dedede so...*shrugs*

 

[Levitas]

Ankoku's list counts all tournaments that meet a minimum criteria listed on that thread.

Ness is better than lucas for a variety of reasons.

I don't win stuff around here, there are better players than me in MI, and I haven't been to a tournament since May.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

So I'm too lazy to browse through the countless Lucas vs Ness threads...what are those various reasons?

Lucas always SEEMED to be better than Ness. I've always considered them fairly even, especially when you factor how bad Ness's recovery is, and how he's effected more seriously by the grab release issue.

 

[Levitas]

Ness has a far better aerial game, has a good game that sets up into an aerial game, has several good kill options, and can guarantee a kill on snake at 140%.

Lucas has a harder time killing, lower priority, worse approaches, and his attacks do a worse job of chainging into each other. He has a better recovery, but that is currently offset by his weak points.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

But what about Ness eating Snake ftilts, Wolf down smashes, Shuttle loops, Wario re-grabs and fsmashes, Pit fsmashes and other such crap out of a grab release? Lucas doesn't suffer from nearly as much as this. I'm pleased that Ness is doing OK, but I thought he'd end up lower than low because of this...

Sucks for me, since I prefer Lucas. Oh well.

 

[Onxy]

Someone mentioned Samus being too high.. Why is that? She is a million times better than characters like Link, while people put Link above her.

 

[Snowstalker]

God Tier
Metaknight

Okay.

Top Tier
Snake
King Dedede
Falco

Falco and Dedede are a bit high. Snake should be in God Tier.

Upper Tier
Mr. Game&Watch
Marth
R.O.B.

Move GaW into Top. Otherwise, fine.

High Tier
Kirby
Pit
Wario
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Peach

Kirby sohuld move a couple slots down, and Peach shouldn't be higher than the middle of Mid.

Mid Tier
Olimar
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Zelda
Ike
Pikachu
Fox
Toon Link

Pikachu, Olimar, and Toon Link should all be moved into High. Ike should be in Low.

Low Tier
Samus
Ness
Bowser
Sheik
Lucas
Mario
Ganondorf
Pokemon Trainer
Sonic

Move Samus and Ganon into bottom, bring Ness, Mario, and Lucas into Mid, and bump up Bowser and PT a bit.

Bottom Tier
Link
Yoshi
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon

Move Link to the bottom of Low, Yoshi to the top of Low, and the tier list has been fixed.

 

[Pearl Floatzel]

But what about Ness eating Snake ftilts, Wolf down smashes, Shuttle loops, Wario re-grabs and fsmashes, Pit fsmashes and other such crap out of a grab release? Lucas doesn't suffer from nearly as much as this. I'm pleased that Ness is doing OK, but I thought he'd end up lower than low because of this...

Sucks for me, since I prefer Lucas. Oh well.

I think the reason the release isn't used as much is that if you're at the range where you can grab with those characters, you can do some of the afterwards moves or you have a better option. If you're in range for Wolf's grab, you're in the range of his dsmash, and at the percent where you can get significant damage out of the grab, you'd kill with the smash anyway. Same with MK. And Snake's ftilt. People may not think it's worth it. And Ness mainers, who know, don't want to tell everyone that it does work.
It may also be that people just don't know about it, period. They may think that Lucas is just as bad because all they know about is that Marth can infinite both of them. They could have no idea that followups were possible.

But remember that it may not just be that. If the Ice Climbers grab you, you die. This didn't guarantee them god-tier status, though. The strategy that applies against the Ice Climbers applies against everyone with Ness. Don't get grabbed.

 

[dawgbowl]

instead of talking about why we think they are wrong... why don't we look for more techniques to make lucas a better character and thus make them change it.

 

[lil cj]

instead of talking about why we think they are wrong... why don't we look for more techniques to make lucas a better character and thus make them change it.

Thats a good idea
Lets get to work Lucas mains

 

[AkaMaruChan]

tier lists are dumb. It makes me smile when I go to a tournament and people are using characters they like to play. Like Link or Yoshi instead of people who have an easier time winning, like MK or snake. I'm hoping in the near future, tier lists will change as people begin to see weaknesses in top tier characters and exploit them. Not like in melee where Fox, Sheik, and marth were like kings of melee....that's it. brawl is so fun =)

 

[Uffe]

I think Samus should be placed in high teir. But I feel this is only due to popularity. After all I've come across and seen a lot of good Samus players. Her attacks are quick and she has annoying projectile. Not to mention that zair.

 

[al-x_clip]

woah!
lucas is not fcking low tier!
he's mid or high fo sho
them scrubs just afraid too many people will main himh
and own
<3

 

[al-x_clip]

Thats a good idea
Lets get to work Lucas mains

lets get to work fo sho!
let show them who's the best in the game

 

[Onomanic]

I made a thread like this on the Link boards.

It got closed.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

sonic=mid and Lucas=high IMO

 

[Froth]

Lucas has everything

great aerials
fast jabs and ftilt
can combo on wall
great projectiles
good grab range
awesome throws
psi magnet for healing against spammers and whatnot
reflect projectiles with twig
2nd or 3rd best usmash in the game?
powerful smashes
a great jump, plus a tether
and he can also freeze people

he has EVERYTHING!
how can he be low? >:O

 

[Seanson]

i agree with those points, minus the good upsmash and freeze people part.

 

[Mic_128]

There isn't a tier for him to be low on.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

What's your tier list?

 

[Froth]

i agree with those points, minus the good upsmash and freeze people part.

you don't like it that he has one of the best usmashes? :embarrass

 

[Trozz]

Uh. Strong doesn't mean best. U-smash is hilariously situational.

 

[Ballistaboy]

I agree with Trozz, And some of VGamerJoe's points. I think that Lucas is low tier because he doesnt win enough tournament because he isnt played widely enough.

I play some Gamebattles and I only know of 3 Lucas's on there. He is a mid tier IMO i dont think he is high, he doesnt have enough aerial priority for that which is a main issue i think.

 

[Froth]

Mekos was #1 on gamebattles for a while. he mains lucas....