lil cj
Smash Lord
Ive seen some of Mekos vids he has some mad skills
I think he is one of our best Lucas mains.
We can learn alot from him.
If only he had a smash boards account
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I jus saw that Lucas is Low Tier:(
- Thread starter lil cj
- Start date
I think he is one of our best Lucas mains.
We can learn alot from him.
If only he had a smash boards account
I'm actually really good. I just owned this guy (pikachu) without even movingIve seen some of Mekos vids he has some mad skills
I think he is one of our best Lucas mains.
We can learn alot from him.
If only he had a smash boards account
You can check out my combo video if you'd like...and tell me what you think.
lil cj
Smash Lord
OkI'm actually really good. I just owned this guy (pikachu) without even moving
You can check out my combo video if you'd like...and tell me what you think.
I'll check it out
Oh, I'll be putting the pikachu part in the next vid.Ok
I'll check it out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKep3Lyyk78
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
Lucas > Ness.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Is that so?
Prove it.
I actually hate his grab the most because it has the lag of a tether but the range is BARELY longer, if at all, than Charizard's. I do a lot of running grabs and shield-grabbing, and when people push me back with powerful attacks, I can't grab them with Lucas. It is way too laggy. His throws are solid, but they aren't exceptional. I guess "solid" is good enough.
PSI Magnet is pretty good... but it also negates most of the twig's reflection ability. Absorb > reflect. I would only reflect boomerangs and the gyro.
His up smash is mediocre at best. The insane killing power and crazy disjointed attack compensates a little for everything else about it. His Dsmash is ok, but a good (or even just a decent) timed roll takes care of it, and generally speaking, Dsmash on characters is best for punishing rolls. The behind hitbox is stupidly small. Only ZSS hits on one side with Lucas, and that one is far better than Lucas's.
Recovery is good, and so is the tether. Freezing is a slight bonus.
All in all, he's a decent character, but he is not amazing at anything but pestering. Underplayed for sure (and that counts for his low ranking), but he isn't amazing by any stretch.
Prove it.
"Great aerials" is giving that too much credit. They're ok, but not great. Anyone can combo on walls, so that isn't saying anything. Projectiles are ok.
I actually hate his grab the most because it has the lag of a tether but the range is BARELY longer, if at all, than Charizard's. I do a lot of running grabs and shield-grabbing, and when people push me back with powerful attacks, I can't grab them with Lucas. It is way too laggy. His throws are solid, but they aren't exceptional. I guess "solid" is good enough.
PSI Magnet is pretty good... but it also negates most of the twig's reflection ability. Absorb > reflect. I would only reflect boomerangs and the gyro.
His up smash is mediocre at best. The insane killing power and crazy disjointed attack compensates a little for everything else about it. His Dsmash is ok, but a good (or even just a decent) timed roll takes care of it, and generally speaking, Dsmash on characters is best for punishing rolls. The behind hitbox is stupidly small. Only ZSS hits on one side with Lucas, and that one is far better than Lucas's.
Recovery is good, and so is the tether. Freezing is a slight bonus.
All in all, he's a decent character, but he is not amazing at anything but pestering. Underplayed for sure (and that counts for his low ranking), but he isn't amazing by any stretch.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
... That is what EVERYONE says about their non-top/high tier characters.
Lucas is deadly
Mr.E
Smash Lord
And my personal opinion is the opposite. The whole grab-release thing isn't nearly as devastating to him as, say, Yoshi's simple inability to do anything out-of-shield against anybody at any time... or even just Ness having the same issue on a more severe scale. ;/ Beyond the whole Marth infinite thing (Lucas would otherwise be a good choice against him then, unlike Ness), he doesn't have any real bad matchups and has a solid all-around game. Low tier, though possible, is really pushing it.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
I don't see why Yoshi's horrible shield is that much worse than grab-releases, considering it is easier to not shield than it is to not get grabbed.
Ness having more problems with grab-releases obviously does not impede him as much, because he's still ranking higher than Lucas. Could be due to popularity... but there's definitely something bigger involved here.
Lucas does have bad match-ups, or at least they're unfavorable. Game and Watch. Sheik. Marth. Falco. Metaknight. Snake. Mario. Others that aren't coming to mind immediately. Lucas's "solid all-around game" doesn't take him anywhere because everyone else has a solid all-around game. Name one character who is totally one-sided and isn't already placed at the bottom of the pile. Then there's the fact that he does not have any match-ups beyond 6:4 that aren't on some utterly terrible character. There is nothing truly exceptional about him. Being an all-around character does not cut it when your distinctive abilities don't take you above the rest.
I'm not trying to put him down, but I am saying that he's nothing special.
Ness having more problems with grab-releases obviously does not impede him as much, because he's still ranking higher than Lucas. Could be due to popularity... but there's definitely something bigger involved here.
Lucas does have bad match-ups, or at least they're unfavorable. Game and Watch. Sheik. Marth. Falco. Metaknight. Snake. Mario. Others that aren't coming to mind immediately. Lucas's "solid all-around game" doesn't take him anywhere because everyone else has a solid all-around game. Name one character who is totally one-sided and isn't already placed at the bottom of the pile. Then there's the fact that he does not have any match-ups beyond 6:4 that aren't on some utterly terrible character. There is nothing truly exceptional about him. Being an all-around character does not cut it when your distinctive abilities don't take you above the rest.
I'm not trying to put him down, but I am saying that he's nothing special.
Mr.E
Smash Lord
Zelda, though rendered half moot if Sheik really did have a substantial advantage over Lucas. (I don't see it but I'm sure it's a better matchup than Zelda at any rate.) A few unfavorable matchups, perhaps, but nothing worse than maybe 40/60 against anyone. Well, except Marth.
As long as we're into the "lol Lucas/Ness argument again" thing, Ness doesn't exactly have favorable matchups against those characters either. Heck, before the grab-release crap Marth was already a bad matchup for Ness where it would otherwise be neutral or slightly in Lucas' favor. Where is Ness ranking higher than Lucas? On one random guy's tier list and because Levitas says he's better? *shrug* Big whoop. Ness eating free tilts/smashes off most of the cast's grab-releases, most of which Lucas avoids himself, is a big enough disadvantage alone that I would personally put Lucas above him. :/ But even my opinion is just one of many.
Not to turn it into another Ness/Lucas thing, though, suffice it to say Lucas has tools for most situations. He doesn't have Ness's aerial priority but he's still largely disjointed and thus beats many other characters anyway, he's got a much better projectile defense with the faster Magnet and FSmash (Stick) as well as a pretty good keep-away game. He has range on the ground, edgeguards well, plenty of KO moves even if the Stick is the only one easily landed. Lucas doesn't suffer the grab-release problem nearly as bad as Ness and has no gaping holes in his game anywhere, that's low mid-tier at worst.
Saying "don't shield" is even dumber than saying "don't get grabbed." It's easy to work on not getting grabbed by being more careful with your spacing and whatnot or, in other words, learning to play better.
To not shield, however, is to ignore the game's primary defensive option and would be a severe impediment on anyone's game. Unfortunately, Yoshi can't do anything immediately out of his shield like anyone else; he's pretty much forced to not shield anyway since he has no options for punishment upon dropping it. What's even worse is he has arguably the worst standing grab in the game, so he can't even reliably grab out-of-shield. He's actually a decent character aside that, but this one problem of his is so devastating that he can't recover from it.
Dxt XXII
Smash Journeyman
It is true that Ness and especially Lucas are underplayed.
At the last tourny I went to I was the only Lucas and there was only one Ness out of about 40-50 people His main problem is that people see him as a character that can easily be countered, and why bother using him if you an use someone like Snake or MK who has way better matchups?
But still, Lucas is better than most people give him credit for. he has good spacing, throws, and awesome recovery.
High tier? I don't think so.
Low tier? You havn't actually played a good Lucas.
Lucas is solidly Mid-Tier.
At the last tourny I went to I was the only Lucas and there was only one Ness out of about 40-50 people His main problem is that people see him as a character that can easily be countered, and why bother using him if you an use someone like Snake or MK who has way better matchups?
But still, Lucas is better than most people give him credit for. he has good spacing, throws, and awesome recovery.
High tier? I don't think so.
Low tier? You havn't actually played a good Lucas.
Lucas is solidly Mid-Tier.
I honestly dont think tiers are that important. The only thing matters is that you can be really good with anyone, and every character has a lot of potential behind them. I think that because I know I can beat some of my friends that play a higher tier.
Don't be dissapointed if your character is a low tier, because that is how you can lose, if you are dissapointed in your character. So just do the best you can with Lucas.
Don't be dissapointed if your character is a low tier, because that is how you can lose, if you are dissapointed in your character. So just do the best you can with Lucas.
§leepy God
Smash Master
Lucas is under played, and so far the tier list is still not completed you'll have to play the game more. And another thing, when did tier list ever matter to judge people skills. =/
So true.
Lucas isn't so bad, perhaps because of his recovery some people deny to play him.
And the tier list thing, true also, but that's just the way it is, a pain, really.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
...The hell is a normal tier?
All these topics regarding Chillin's tier list are pretty much pointless.
"Hey, I disagree with him, let's ***** about it"
that's what i'd like to know
Mr.E
Smash Lord
Character matchups and skill make more of a difference than tier placement anyway. Tiers only matter if you're already a top tier player yourself.
SothE700k
Smash Lord
I'm now marking this officially as the most overused statement EVER.
Bulls*** that Lucas can be the very best.
Are you mad that sonic isn't as good as lucas?
darkserenade
Smash Ace
Really? I think Lucas is much higher than Ness. The biggest reason is probably PK Thunder 2, but that's just me. But, I still find Lucas as annonying as heck and more. Biggest reasons are probably 1.)he has no pupils 2.)he's a coward and 3.)he's stupid. Also, to SothE700k, of course lucas can't be the very best. *ahem*. Ash wants to be the very best, like no one ever was. To catch them is his real test, to train them is his cause. He will travel across the land, searching far and wide. Each pokemon, to understand, the power that's inside. Pokemon! it's you and me, he know's it destiny. Pokemon! Oh, you're my best friend, in a world we must defend. Pokemon! A heart so true their courage will pull them through! You teach him and he'll teach you! Pokemon! Gotta catch 'em all, Gotta catch 'em all! Pokemon!......Lol that I used to watch that show.
Oops, I meant mid tier. WOW! I am such a noob for doing that.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
I forgot about my reply here, so sorry for being late. Anyway:
Zelda, though rendered half moot if Sheik really did have a substantial advantage over Lucas.
Zelda is not one-sided. There are no characters who don't have an all-around decent game.
(I don't see it but I'm sure it's a better matchup than Zelda at any rate.) A few unfavorable matchups, perhaps, but nothing worse than maybe 40/60 against anyone. Well, except Marth.
My point exactly. He might not be doing horrible against anyone, but as long as he's not getting any GREAT match-ups against the top part of the cast, he'll be underused, or rather, more underused than he deserves to be, as I think he'd still stay underused.
As long as we're into the "lol Lucas/Ness argument again" thing, Ness doesn't exactly have favorable matchups against those characters either. Heck, before the grab-release crap Marth was already a bad matchup for Ness where it would otherwise be neutral or slightly in Lucas' favor.
I wasn't trying to make a Ness vs. Lucas argument. I was saying that grab-release crap against Ness isn't impeding him as much as people would like to think, as he does have better tournament standings than Lucas. This does not mean automatically that Ness is >>>> Lucas, nor does having more grab-release issues mean that Lucas >>>> Ness. I said that there's obviously something else going on here, and that something is Ness being more popular than Lucas, and therefore he's gonna rank better overall.
Where is Ness ranking higher than Lucas? On one random guy's tier list and because Levitas says he's better? *shrug* Big whoop.
I was talking tournament rankings, and at the time of my post, Ness was higher than Lucas, but now they're side by side, Lucas above.
Ness eating free tilts/smashes off most of the cast's grab-releases, most of which Lucas avoids himself, is a big enough disadvantage alone that I would personally put Lucas above him. :/ But even my opinion is just one of many.
One could say that Ness's generally better approach and his yo-yos make Lucas seem at a larger disadvantage, but that wouldn't even make sense. I wasn't even trying to compare the two in that sense. I merely said that Ness's grab-release issues aren't hurting him as much as people want to think they are.
Not to turn it into another Ness/Lucas thing, though, suffice it to say Lucas has tools for most situations. He doesn't have Ness's aerial priority but he's still largely disjointed and thus beats many other characters anyway, he's got a much better projectile defense with the faster Magnet and FSmash (Stick) as well as a pretty good keep-away game. He has range on the ground, edgeguards well, plenty of KO moves even if the Stick is the only one easily landed. Lucas doesn't suffer the grab-release problem nearly as bad as Ness and has no gaping holes in his game anywhere, that's low mid-tier at worst.
Good knowledge, but it was irrelevant to my main point, which I'll reiterate just for future clarifications: Ness's grab-release issues aren't hurting him so much that he's seen as totally inferior to Lucas, and this is apparent based off of how he's ranking compared to Lucas.
Saying "don't shield" is even dumber than saying "don't get grabbed." It's easy to work on not getting grabbed by being more careful with your spacing and whatnot or, in other words, learning to play better.
What's even worse is he has arguably the worst standing grab in the game, so he can't even reliably grab out-of-shield. He's actually a decent character aside that, but this one problem of his is so devastating that he can't recover from it.
If he's forced to not shield, isn't that saying "don't shield" in itself? Also, the statement is as ridiculous as "don't get grabbed" in the sense that both are virtually impossible to do in a match, but all you have to do is spot-dodge instead of shield in order to "not shield", whereas not getting grabbed is an entirely different thing. Anyway, point is, you can't really compare Yoshi's shield issues to Lucas's grab-release issues.