I don't understand PMBR

[Kink-Link5]

Eli raged so damn hard. XD

At least Kinky got half of what he wanted for spacie nerfs.

I don't even care about astroid foxes.

 

[trash?]

jesus christ now I'm bothering to read all of that and I forgot how much of a legitimately smug prick sveet is when people want to talk to him

are all spacie players like that when people discuss changes about them

 

[Kink-Link5]

jesus christ now I'm bothering to read all of that and I forgot how much of a legitimately smug prick sveet is when people want to talk to him

are all spacie players like that when people discuss changes about them

Sveet is the only one I know of other than non-space animal dedicated Melee Purists.

 

[trash?]

I just... will not ever understand people so vehemently against change. even if you think, in some special world where fox isn't considered the absolute best character in the game, he's balanced, he's still absolutely awfully designed around a select few overbearing moves.

I've said the same thing with falcon; he doesn't need nerfs, he needs a full-on redesign so people can actually be creative with what they do.

 

[DMG]

Falcon... redesigned?

Where are your anatomical testes?

 

[trash?]

look, I ain't asking for much. just make it so people can't spam uair all day, and then give his ground moves some actual god damn use

falcon's real dumb. my opinions on that aren't kink-link seething rage level, but he's still pretty fuggin dumb

 

[Kink-Link5]

Fox doesn't revolve around a few moves. You can nairplane to victory against poorer players because it's such a powerful punishment and range option, but Fox more accurately revolves around

Laser Attrition
Nair spacing
U-tilt stuffing
Shine gimps
Setting up into U-smash
Uair
and Bair kills

That may not look like much, but compare to a character like Jigglypuff, who revolves around Bair spacing, rest setups, and carryoff setups, or DK, who revolves around tech punishing with Down-B, Cargo combos, and Fair setups. Falcon revolves around "Can I dash dance and win Y/N? Can I uair and win Y/N? **** it double stomp fair."

Fox more accurately revolves around SEVERAL overbearing moves that are all above par at what they do.

 

[ELI-mination]

is this a real thread or an attempt to troll me

 

[trash?]

eli's just waiting

for the one opportunity from a mid-level melee purist to show up in the thread

he is the night. and also the fair. def the fair

 

[DMG]

Who's Fair?

I nominate Eli to be Sheik's Fair. Straight forward, deadly, and you can't challenge it.

 

[trash?]

luigi's fair

it's a silly looking chop, but on the other hand you're dead and he's not so THERE


look it's just that we've had threads about spacies balances before and at no point has it been reasonable or really anything other than a devolving into "you can't discuss because YOU'RE NOT AS COOL AS ME MM ME SCRUB" followed by shadic sighing a thousand sighs
can we just. have our dumb jokes. pls

 

[Tlock]

Meh I'll leave it at that but I'm not downloading 2.6b. Nope

So you have been playing 2.6 for a month with this change, had no idea the change was actually in the game, complained about the change when you read about it in the change log, and refuse to download 2.6b because you thought the change was only in 2.6b but have really played with the change for the past month?

Ok. Have fun with that.

 

[foxygrandpa]

The big thing that I want to know is why Fox and Falco deserve to stay exactly like they were when characters like Sheik and Meta Knight do not?

Im not trying to disagree with anyone, because I can see both sides of the argument. but I think that the reason fox and falco were kept the same was an attempt to bring back the more technical gameplay of melee, compared to brawl. Meta was changed not because it was supposed to be a total nerf, but it fit the style of project m better so that it would be more technical than brawls slower play style. The whole point of project melee is to try to bring back melees gameplay.
I think design overall is the priority of PMBR, at least at this stage of developing.
I guess I'm kinda biased though, because I'm a huge melee fan. Brawl had new aspects to it that were cool, like new characters and stages, but melee is agreed to be more of a technical game. Not that brawl didnt take skill to play, but it was a huge change from melee.
Even if a character is better or worse than fox or falco, I think if the character is designed well, it should be implemented into the game.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Im not trying to disagree with anyone, because I can see both sides of the argument. but I think that the reason fox and falco were kept the same was an attempt to bring back the more technical gameplay of melee, compared to brawl. Meta was changed not because it was supposed to be a total nerf, but it fit the style of project m better so that it would be more technical than brawls slower play style. The whole point of project melee is to try to bring back melees gameplay.
I think design overall is the priority of PMBR, at least at this stage of developing.
I guess I'm kinda biased though, because I'm a huge melee fan. Brawl had new aspects to it that were cool, like new characters and stages, but melee is agreed to be more of a technical game. Not that brawl didnt take skill to play, but it was a huge change from melee.
Even if a character is better or worse than fox or falco, I think if the character is designed well, it should be implemented into the game.

I prefer Melee as well. My main gripe is this idea that any character is untouchable, and the simple minded rigidity that it enforces. It's true that Fox and Falco are highly technical characters, but that doesn't necessarily mean that their designs are set in stone while everyone else is up for change.

 

[ELI-mination]

By the way, who ever brought up the idea that these characters are untouchable?

 

[9bit]

Bitter Fox and Falco mains probably

 

[DMG]

Bro, Brah, Broheim, Brosefs of the land











SHINE... is untouchable don't you dare touch it you filthy casuals. Go play a REAL game AKA Melee which is the only good thing God put on his Green Earth. Along with your Mom OH BURN! Follow me on Twitter, I'm the best trash talker in the Halo community I bet you could tell how awesome I am already. I hope you all quit this plebeian attempt at a game, you pitiable, pathetic serfs of Smash ur Dongs 2.6^3.1415 nerf city version

 

[Alex Night]

I come from a videogame background in MMOs and FPSs, and I've seen both sides of balance responses.

MMO players are so used to seeing things buffed and nerfed that while they dislike changes that hurt their characters and will complain about them, they are the first to "get over it", as in the first players to adapt and move on. They know that when their thing is broken, its going to get fixed and they need to move past it to succeed.

FPS players (specifically CS players) despise even the slightest change to anything at all. The slightest change to pistol damage or AK reload time, or the movement of a window two inches to the left (all of which have an admittedly large impact on high level gameplay) is reacted to with heavy backlash, and that backlash has gone so far as to fracture the CS community between the three games.

I have a point here. My point is that you can chose which of those players to be, and when you are playing a Demo, it's greatly to your advantage to be like the MMO player. When your character gets changed, think about it not as "Did my character deserve this change? It's negative and i don't want nerfs to my character" but instead as "Did the play style of my character get changed?" If it didn't, then it's a simple matter of adapting to the change (and in theory, you're playing your character because you like how he plays and NOT because he's good) and if your playstyle HAS changed (as in, Sonic 2.5 -> 2.6) then you have a right to question the validity of the decision and reevaluate your decision to play that character or that game.

I'm going to take the liberty of assuming you like Fox for his playstyle and not because he's good. That being the case, you should be glad that he plays exactly the same in 2.6 as in 2.5, and instead you can use your time to pitty Oracle who lost his ROB playstyle or Kink who is still mourning the change to 2.1 Zard Nair.

That... That actually is a very good explanation of how to react to balancing. Considering I am a Sonic main, I am currently reevaluating my decision to keep him as my main in 2.6. Putting that aside as this is a topic about Fox, this is a very good explanation of how Fox is still fine in Project M 2.6. Fox is still Fox. Now, I shall question my existence as the salt flows through me.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

By the way, who ever brought up the idea that these characters are untouchable?

No idea who the exact source of this shared belief was, but it seems like a poisonous thing to their enjoyment or ability to improve at this fantastic game.

 

[ELI-mination]

No idea who the exact source of this shared belief was, but it seems like a poisonous thing to their enjoyment or ability to improve at this fantastic game.

Agreed.
I also think its widely used as a strawman argument. Like anybody who is in favor of a spacies design change is unfairly lumped together into this category when they don't deserve to be, as they've advocated no such belief.

 

[trash?]

maybe you should get good scrubface nerdlord

mm me so my fragile and brittle ego feels satisfied and I don't have to admit differing opinions shirtduck scruburcs

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

maybe you should get good scrubface nerdlord

mm me so my fragile and brittle ego feels satisfied and I don't have to admit differing opinions shirtduck scruburcs

You just reminded me of Duckman. Thanks a lot.

 

[trash?]

get wrecked, buttdonk flurdhead

 

[Strong Badam]

Bitter Fox and Falco mains probably

It's like losing when you're outplayed is a foreign concept to some people.

 

[JOE!]

Bro, Brah, Broheim, Brosefs of the land











SHINE... is untouchable don't you dare touch it you filthy casuals. Go play a REAL game AKA Melee which is the only good thing God put on his Green Earth. Along with your Mom OH BURN! Follow me on Twitter, I'm the best trash talker in the Halo community I bet you could tell how awesome I am already. I hope you all quit this plebeian attempt at a game, you pitiable, pathetic serfs of Smash ur Dongs 2.6^3.1415 nerf city version

 

[Mewter]

What? They removed the invincibility window in Project M from Fox? I only ever used fox, because he's fun -- and let's face it -- good.
Most of the people in this thread: Get over yourselves and off your high horse of ignorance. If a person wants to hate a demo because they disagree when the P:M backroom unexpectedly makes an (agreeably) massive change to someone's favorite smashbro, let them. It's not your business, so don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

Heck, they changed Link, Sonic and Bowser just as much in the last patch. There goes my support for 2.6 too, PMBR.

 

[ItalianStallion]

Couple things:

1. Charizard 2.6 nair > 2.1 nair. 2.1 nair did not have as much utility as 2.6 nair.
2. Falcon is not dumb. Just because some players spam uairs and dash dancing doesn't mean that's how everyone plays the character. My style of Falcon utilizes all of his specials and all of his ground moves.
3. The "nerfs" Fox and Falco got in 2.6 were extremely minor. And this is coming from someone who would like to see Fox and Falco stay close to their Melee counterparts.
4. 2.6 Sonic is still extremely good and is super powerful in the hands of a technical player with good reaction times.
5. I just played a game of Magic: The Gathering with my girlfriend. It's a good night.

 

[Deleted member]

P:M backroom unexpectedly makes an (agreeably) massive change to someone's favorite smashbro, let them.

I wouldn't call it unexpected since people have been fighting about the space animals since the dawn of time, and it was not a "massive" change. Fox still plays exactly the same. He retained all of the attributes that make him amazing. Shine is still a ridiculous, single frame, jump-cancelable move that combos and gimps like no other, but you're seriously going to complain about one of the best moves in the game?

If you don't want to play PM anymore because of this change, that's your right. It is also our right to shake our heads at you for being so irrational and closed-minded.

 

[Alex Night]

Couple things:

1. Charizard 2.6 nair > 2.1 nair. 2.1 nair did not have as much utility as 2.6 nair.
2. Falcon is not dumb. Just because some players spam uairs and dash dancing doesn't mean that's how everyone plays the character. My style of Falcon utilizes all of his specials and all of his ground moves.
3. The "nerfs" Fox and Falco got in 2.6 were extremely minor. And this is coming from someone who would like to see Fox and Falco stay close to their Melee counterparts.
4. 2.6 Sonic is still extremely good and is super powerful in the hands of a technical player with good reaction times.
5. I just played a game of Magic: The Gathering with my girlfriend. It's a good night.

That's five things in vice to a couple. I'm still a bit uncertain about Sonic in 2.6 as I looked over the changelist. I've never noticed that there was an invincibility frame for Fox's Shine for Melee or in Project M pre-2.6, so I honestly don't feel affected by this change. You either adapt and overcome or you can just stick to the old ways and never get better at Project M.

Also, this... I approve of this heavily, sir!

 

[Mewter]

I wouldn't call it unexpected since people have been fighting about the space animals since the dawn of time, and it was not a "massive" change. Fox still plays exactly the same. He retained all of the attributes that make him amazing. Shine is still a ridiculous, single frame, jump-cancelable move that combos and gimps like no other, but you're seriously going to complain about one of the best moves in the game?

If you don't want to play PM anymore because of this change, that's your right. It is also our right to shake our heads at you for being so irrational and closed-minded.

But the change is so large! How can we possibly be expected to play this game with the invincibility window that we all depend on removed from competitive play? PMBR, we're sick of your tyranny.

If you want to hate on us "for being so irrational and closed-minded," you can, but it doesn't make you any more right about its significance.

I'm a Smash Debater. Trust me, you don't want to do this.

Edit:
I could list all the reasons why you're wrong (hint: 1, look at the changelist) but it would take too long to convince you of your folly. Hence my removal from this thread for the time being. Ugh, that PMBR sure makes my blood boil!

 

[ELI-mination]

Must....not....lose.....mind.....

 

[trash?]

I'm having trouble discerning if that post is parody or not

poe's law is a hell of a concept

 

[Alex Night]

I'm having trouble discerning if that post is parody or not

poe's law is a hell of a concept

I think Mewter was trolling us. I mean, it really isn't that big of a change.

 

[CyberZixx]

Reads like heavy satire to me.

 

[trash?]

ok yes I'm just being dumb
ty for the subtle clarification with that edit, friend

(SORRY FOR THE DIRECTION THIS THREAD WENT IN SHADIC I still love you)

 

[leelue]

Can't delete a post on smashboards? wtf

 

[Mewter]

But the change is so large! How can we possibly be expected to play this game with the invincibility window that we all depend on removed from competitive play? PMBR, we're sick of your tyranny.

If you want to hate on us "for being so irrational and closed-minded," you can, but it doesn't make you any more right about its significance.

I'm a Smash Debater. Trust me, you don't want to do this.

Edit:
I could list all the reasons why you're wrong (hint: 1, look at the changelist) but it would take too long to convince you of your folly. Hence my removal from this thread for the time being. Ugh, that PMBR sure makes my blood boil!

Now look here you vitriolic fiend! This is no proper way to treat a fellow smasher! Cast aside your venomous rhetoric and listen to reason!
We must discuss the issue you have with this change to Fox. What irks thee? A smidgen of change not a mite might miss!
I strike down your claim, and will do so again and again, until an epic has been written of your defeat on grounds of wisdom! This is how much you irk me.

 

[leelue]

Go to bed Mewter










#insidejokes

 

[Alex Night]

Go home Mewter; you're drunk.

 

[Viceversa96]

So you have been playing 2.6 for a month with this change, had no idea the change was actually in the game, complained about the change when you read about it in the change log, and refuse to download 2.6b because you thought the change was only in 2.6b but have really played with the change for the past month?

Ok. Have fun with that.

Omfg did you not read this "I still have 2.5. I have backups of every demo." I waited for 2.6b instead of 2.6 to come out tried it and noticed the difference and switched to 2.5 Fox. I'm still going to play 2.6 just not 2.6 Fox. Mario is my main anyways and he got buffed so I'm not being close minded.

By the way, who ever brought up the idea that these characters are untouchable?

Idk but I definitely do not think either are untouchable. So why nerf something if it isn't a "big deal"? That's the only thing that confuses me.