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I don't understand PMBR

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The_NZA

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Messages
1,979
Put back Fox, Falco, and Wolf Shine INVINCIBILITY and lasers back to melee....Why was this made in the first place? If I SHINE and grab wins that should NOT ever work.... first off all... in any fighting game ANY ATTACK BEATS GRABS ALWAYS but in smash its the only one that this doesn't make sense, it's already bad that this is how this game is but if SHINE Doesn't' beat a grab then then whats the point of L- Canceling to a Shine or any attack if Grab is TOP TIER MOVE if timed correctly Grab Will ALWAYS WIN. Also if that's the case then give Fox his original lasers like in ssb64 aka Falco Lasers now for some dumb reason he has it. I wouldn't mind the 1% or worst the 0% the farther it gets but at least let it be used as an approach like Falco has it. Let me melee veterans as they were and if you want... just buff the people that need it.... But DON'T Nerf the original cast.... Hell just buff everyone. This is suppose to be melee game play with brawl people right?

For Fox, Falco, and Wolf Shine or Reflector here's a thought if he reflects the projectile he can wavedash out of reflecting the projectile kinda like waveshining a projectile and go on the offense so he is NOT stuck reflecting the projectile. Example if Mario uses fireball projectile and Fox Reflects it then he can wavedash as soon as he reflects the Fireball so he can keep the pressure going and attack back at Mario same thing goes with if Falco Short Hop Lasers ect.

Also let Wario Air shoulder bash longer like in the ground and also move at an angle upward and downward angle like exaggerate it more.. I know you can already move it up or down but its barely shown and it barely moves upward or downward at the angle it should be. So he can recover with it besides Up - B. Also let Shoulder Bash beat all projectiles ground or in the Shoulder Bash in the air since he has no projectiles so Wario can get in and NOT be projectile spammed. Great job on the Wario Bite and Forward tilts as the longer you hold it the stronger it gets which is good... I don't mind that you shorten the down smash range that's fine I suppose... I think you should make the down air NOT a hit or die tho or if he misses he is able to Up-B recover instantly so he doesn't die but that's just me....

Also Shorten Ivysaurs razor leaf length it is way to long it can cover final destination from end to end, that is way to long....


Now Mario Cape hit box should only cape from the front not from the bottom of the cape.... example: Fox tries to recover with Firefox angles from final destination to the edge and mario's cape should not make Fox turn around unless he hits the cape from the front of the cape... Not if Fox is still Firefox angles to the stage still.
Mario air Fireball recovery is way to fast. I've had a Level 9 and a Mario Main shoot 4 fireballs from the end of Final Destination to the other side which I was on I couldn't dodge them all I was so shocked at how many he can do before reaching me on the other side of Final D.


Also Mario should Not have the ability to wall jump from an Up- B. Only wall jump if you jump to the wall. If that is the case then everyone that has a Up- B recovery or who ever has that recovery should also Wall Jump out of Up- B.... example if I'm Fox and I FireFox to the side of a stage like a wall then Fox should then Wall Jump and FireFox again or same thing with Fox Illusion vice versa ... see that doesn't make sense does it? Well maybe the Fox Illusion, if you Fox Illusion to the wall and then wall jump then Fox Illusion again or maybe FireFox to the stage. whatever..

Next is Bowser with too much armor and the earthquake from like the Down- B and Down- Air .... REALLY WHATS WITH THE EARTHQUAKE? Any Multiple attack should stop any armor because it's a Multiple hit more than 1 hit which would stop the armor...

Like for Bowser's Down Smash or anyone with a multiple attack I think if you block a multiple hit attack that you should be able to just block the one hit with the shield and release the shield and counter afterwards because if you blocked it once you shouldn't have to block the rest of the hits and just be stuck blocking or maybe if you perfect shield it you can just block it once and be able to counter while the opponent is stuck still attacking the multiple hit. It's like a reward for timing the perfect shield and Rewarding for you to attack back and punish the opponent. Example if I perfect shield Zelda Neutral B or forward smash or Bowser Down Smash or Down Air just block it the first hit then counter attack while they are stuck in those multiple hit animations. There is more if you want me to give more suggestions. Fix in 3.0 or whenever the next update is...hell just make 2.6C

And you didn't even read the thread to change your post so it's applicable in the discourse, or tone down your obvious disrespectful and entitled choice of tone. This is a lovely and supportive community, but as a new user you need to "learn the lay of the land" before you toss your **** everywhere.
 

Nguz95

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
1,419
Location
Washington, DC
Put back Fox, Falco, and Wolf Shine INVINCIBILITY and lasers back to melee....Why was this made in the first place? If I SHINE and grab wins that should NOT ever work.... first off all... in any fighting game ANY ATTACK BEATS GRABS ALWAYS but in smash its the only one that this doesn't make sense, it's already bad that this is how this game is but if SHINE Doesn't' beat a grab then then whats the point of L- Canceling to a Shine or any attack if Grab is TOP TIER MOVE if timed correctly Grab Will ALWAYS WIN. Also if that's the case then give Fox his original lasers like in ssb64 aka Falco Lasers now for some dumb reason he has it. I wouldn't mind the 1% or worst the 0% the farther it gets but at least let it be used as an approach like Falco has it. Let me melee veterans as they were and if you want... just buff the people that need it.... But DON'T Nerf the original cast.... Hell just buff everyone. This is suppose to be melee game play with brawl people right?

For Fox, Falco, and Wolf Shine or Reflector here's a thought if he reflects the projectile he can wavedash out of reflecting the projectile kinda like waveshining a projectile and go on the offense so he is NOT stuck reflecting the projectile. Example if Mario uses fireball projectile and Fox Reflects it then he can wavedash as soon as he reflects the Fireball so he can keep the pressure going and attack back at Mario same thing goes with if Falco Short Hop Lasers ect.

Also let Wario Air shoulder bash longer like in the ground and also move at an angle upward and downward angle like exaggerate it more.. I know you can already move it up or down but its barely shown and it barely moves upward or downward at the angle it should be. So he can recover with it besides Up - B. Also let Shoulder Bash beat all projectiles ground or in the Shoulder Bash in the air since he has no projectiles so Wario can get in and NOT be projectile spammed. Great job on the Wario Bite and Forward tilts as the longer you hold it the stronger it gets which is good... I don't mind that you shorten the down smash range that's fine I suppose... I think you should make the down air NOT a hit or die tho or if he misses he is able to Up-B recover instantly so he doesn't die but that's just me....

Also Shorten Ivysaurs razor leaf length it is way to long it can cover final destination from end to end, that is way to long....


Now Mario Cape hit box should only cape from the front not from the bottom of the cape.... example: Fox tries to recover with Firefox angles from final destination to the edge and mario's cape should not make Fox turn around unless he hits the cape from the front of the cape... Not if Fox is still Firefox angles to the stage still.
Mario air Fireball recovery is way to fast. I've had a Level 9 and a Mario Main shoot 4 fireballs from the end of Final Destination to the other side which I was on I couldn't dodge them all I was so shocked at how many he can do before reaching me on the other side of Final D.


Also Mario should Not have the ability to wall jump from an Up- B. Only wall jump if you jump to the wall. If that is the case then everyone that has a Up- B recovery or who ever has that recovery should also Wall Jump out of Up- B.... example if I'm Fox and I FireFox to the side of a stage like a wall then Fox should then Wall Jump and FireFox again or same thing with Fox Illusion vice versa ... see that doesn't make sense does it? Well maybe the Fox Illusion, if you Fox Illusion to the wall and then wall jump then Fox Illusion again or maybe FireFox to the stage. whatever..

Next is Bowser with too much armor and the earthquake from like the Down- B and Down- Air .... REALLY WHATS WITH THE EARTHQUAKE? Any Multiple attack should stop any armor because it's a Multiple hit more than 1 hit which would stop the armor...

Like for Bowser's Down Smash or anyone with a multiple attack I think if you block a multiple hit attack that you should be able to just block the one hit with the shield and release the shield and counter afterwards because if you blocked it once you shouldn't have to block the rest of the hits and just be stuck blocking or maybe if you perfect shield it you can just block it once and be able to counter while the opponent is stuck still attacking the multiple hit. It's like a reward for timing the perfect shield and Rewarding for you to attack back and punish the opponent. Example if I perfect shield Zelda Neutral B or forward smash or Bowser Down Smash or Down Air just block it the first hit then counter attack while they are stuck in those multiple hit animations. There is more if you want me to give more suggestions. Fix in 3.0 or whenever the next update is...hell just make 2.6C
What? This is all non-sequitur and completely incomprehensible.
 

MysteryRevengerson

IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
3,029
Location
VA baby whe' you at
I'm surprised he's more okay with a nerf to Wario (Loss of range on D-smash isn't that bad [like losing frame one invincibility for a frame], but it's still a nerf) and wants to nerf Bowser (Who was also already nerfed a little) but as soon as you make a change to one of the best characters in the game...

Wario's good but he's no Fox.

Mr. Salt Factory, please give a look through this thread some and read up reasoning from the fine folks of Smashboards and stop complaining about such a small and insignificant change. I can promise you Fox is still retardedly good.
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
"Fox should be able to walljump out of recovery"

 

Pwnz0rz Man

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
1,862
Location
Nowhere, Kansas
3DS FC
1950-9089-5761
Shine should beat every character's attack, including grab. Grabs are overpowered and stupid because they don't function like they do in games like Street Fighter. Don't Nerf the Melee cast, just make sure that Brawl vets aren't as good as Melee.

Fox should be able to shine through everything and BS his way across the stage through projectiles with no risk involved to himself.

Wario shouldn't be punished for missing his dair and he should be able to automatically recover from it, removing all the risk/reward and just making it reward. While we're at it, let's make him beat all projectiles with one move too because characters with projectiles are stupid.

Ivysaur's razor leaf range is too far. I hate projectiles that can punish me at a distance.

Mario's cape should only have a small hitbox in the front and shouldn't fully protect him where the cape moves.

Mario shouldn't be able to walljump out of UpB, even though he could do it in Melee, and if Mario can do it, every other character should be able to, making something special about Mario into something that everyone can do.

Bowser is too hard and any fast attack should be able to tap him out of armor ala Street Fighter IV and their Focus Attacks. Bowser's DownB shouldn't be improved ever, it should be a linear attack with no range on the sides that forces you to be punished extra hard if you miss.

Powershielding should not only block every hit of a multiple hit attack, but it should render every hit after the first completely inert so that the multiple hit nature becomes completely pointless and they stay where they are so I can punish them with no risk at all to myself.

The PMBR doesn't know very much about Smash apparently, if you want me to give you idiots pointers, invite me to the PMBR and put me in charge.
Real....great ideas there champ?
 

trash?

witty/pretty
Premium
Joined
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Location
vancouver bc
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????
Eli got to ask questions, so I have one for everyone:

Can you see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
is it because they can jump frame 1 out of their cinnamon-flavored shine?
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
That's not correct you ****in casual omg everyone knows you can't jump cancel Shine that quick



This GIF is crazy and is not relevant to anything I just said in the past 2000 posts
 

turtletank

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
498
That's not correct you ****in casual omg everyone knows you can't jump cancel Shine that quick
This GIF is crazy and is not relevant to anything I just said in the past 2000 posts
My parents were behind me when I saw this. Unfortunately I had no explanation as it was not relevant to anything in this discussion.
Thanks for that.
 

SmashBeatsALLFGC

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
5
You know whats funny is the people responding back probably are not even good as they think they are (unless they are backroom but sometimes it makes me wonder with this decision). I may have a new name here (which I just made up) but as of knowing this game and others that have had updates on games (yeah there are other fighting games) All I was trying to say is instead of nerfing veteran melee characters to keep it balanced just buff everyone to be up to par with the rest of the group. I understand sheik had a infinite grab and that's those things that need to be fixed because those are more obvious things because it's something you can not escape which is understandable.

That's been the bad side of always updating any fighting game from street fighter 2 up to street fighter 4 version 2012 and now again with Ultra SSF4 coming soon. Just don't be like dumb@$$ NetherRealm where they were always trying to fix Mortal Kombat every week and guess what... that died out with all the fixing because they heard what people said but didn't listen and only kept updating and fixing bugs and glitches and Not fixing the characters strength and weaknesses to balance it out. And same mistake they are making with Injustice now, I guess they never learn. Look at the MetaKnight Glitch on 2.6. Then was found later after it's release. Who ever your playtesters are should be more in detail with things like that before the release. I know my team looks for these things before any release of a game. Find every way possible to those little minor details. It's all about the details to prevent little things like this from happening.

Although there are exception to some of these (example like wavedashing ending up useful) I know I came out as like I was mad ranting person. But if this game is suppose to be like Melee, then keep it Melee because just like melee had a Pal version and others they did the changes in that version and kept what they thought was good to leave and keep in the game and nerf some others that were that bad. But they kept the invincibility on spacies shine and lasers for a reason and the others changed to keep up with the others.

Another thing is I could make this game and make it the way I wanted it to be. I could make it more incredible and keep the melee feel and put more depth in the game with all the knowledge of other fighting game experience I have under my belt. Since I'm an all around with fighting game designer and know specifically on fighting games and also know what works and what doesn't.... it's not just playing the game but seeing what else could be better, it's the details. I know if I wanted to just pay PMBR a salary or Sponsor a company for this game only since I do have the connections. But if they feel this is the route that is best why would I show this to others that would feel same way as I do that know more about Fighting Games. Too bad this game doesn't make any money what so ever. (At least get paid to do all this hard work) I would make it the way I would envision it and bring my team to fix it the way Project M should be, and it would be more popular all over and probably make everyone from the Melee scene move to PM and never look back.
 

Comeback Kid

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 25, 2009
Messages
2,431
Location
Parts Unknown
LOL a real wannabe game designer, stand in line bro. Put up or shut up with that garbage.

And trust me, PAL spacies would lead to even more hilarious rage that reaches salt levels not yet seen in any human being.

Also, it is fairly clear why in a game where your vertical position constantly changes and you can dash dance quickly across the stage that throws need to be strong or else they would be total garbage. That should be pretty obvious to anyone with common sense.
 

Paradoxium

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
3,019
Location
New Sand Fall
K at this point I'm pretty sure your just a troll, no one is ******** enough to constantly post **** on these forums and start saying that we are bad at the game. Look around and see how long some of these people have had their accounts for, you can assume they have been playing smash for a long time.

This thread should be locked.

And your a ****ing moron....
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
Well at least I have a gold mine of smasher quotes for the next podcast
Link me to your podcast the minute it starts.

My parents were behind me when I saw this. Unfortunately I had no explanation as it was not relevant to anything in this discussion.
Thanks for that.
Tell them HABEEB IT

SmashBeatsAll: Who's your team? The Alpha Doom Weinies of General Bull****?
 

ShuFFroom

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
10
Location
Shroom World
You know, game design is very difficult and tedious. Not to mention game balanceing.
If you could make a better game then why don't you, all the tools and recourses to do it are public. You better start now because you really have your work cut out for you.
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
What team do you have that makes games?

If you can make melee better, lets see some evidence.
 

Pwnz0rz Man

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
1,862
Location
Nowhere, Kansas
3DS FC
1950-9089-5761
Are you a troll? If not...

You know whats funny is the people responding back probably are not even good as they think they are (unless they are backroom but sometimes it makes me wonder with this decision)
Says the guy calling them out in the first place...

Look at the MetaKnight Glitch on 2.6. Then was found later after it's release. Who ever your playtesters are should be more in detail with things like that before the release. I know my team looks for these things before any release of a game. Find every way possible to those little minor details. It's all about the details to prevent little things like this from happening.
Yes, playtesters never miss anything, especially yours because as you've said already, you're omniscient. There's a reason that the game is still called a demo and there's a bug reporting forum for Project M. No matter how much work playtesters put into finding stuff, there will always be glitches or bugs that the public finds that made it past the playtesters.

Although there are exception to some of these (example like wavedashing ending up useful) I know I came out as like I was mad ranting person. But if this game is suppose to be like Melee, then keep it Melee because just like melee had a Pal version and others they did the changes in that version and kept what they thought was good to leave and keep in the game and nerf some others that were that bad. But they kept the invincibility on spacies shine and lasers for a reason and the others changed to keep up with the others.
You do come across like a mad ranting person, you also come across like you want us to think that you're special and you know exactly what you're talking about.

Another thing is I could make this game and make it the way I wanted it to be. I could make it more incredible and keep the melee feel and put more depth in the game with all the knowledge of other fighting game experience I have under my belt. Since I'm an all around with fighting game designer and know specifically on fighting games and also know what works and what doesn't.... it's not just playing the game but seeing what else could be better, it's the details. I know if I wanted to just pay PMBR a salary or Sponsor a company for this game only since I do have the connections. But if they feel this is the route that is best why would I show this to others that would feel same way as I do that know more about Fighting Games. Too bad this game doesn't make any money what so ever. (At least get paid to do all this hard work) I would make it the way I would envision it and bring my team to fix it the way Project M should be, and it would be more popular all over and probably make everyone from the Melee scene move to PM and never look back.
If you can do it all better, why not give it a shot. If you make all these boasts, show us that you aren't all talk.

Knowing about other games =/= Knowing about Smash.
Like Melee =/= Melee
Designer =/= Infallible

You clearly stated things that would not be beneficial for the game. You said you wanted characters buffed and then talked about all the nerfs that they should receive instead. You want the game to be more like Melee, and yet you wanted to take away something that Mario can do in Melee while leaving Fox alone, or even making Fox more powerful. Clearly your knowledge about what works and what doesn't, does not extend into the realm of Smash.

They're not just balancing off of knee jerk reactions. If they nerf something a little too much, they'll come back later with a better version of it. At times you may need to over-reach in design in order to find the perfect middle ground and I have little doubt that they will find that middle ground for every character in their game.

You come across like a whiner that isn't getting what they want, and therefore has to insult the work of the PMBR and those who play and love the game that they're creating. As I said, if you can do it better, do it. I'll wait.
 

trash?

witty/pretty
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shadic must feel like a disgruntled father after walking into his home and finding out that his kids had a party while he was on vacation, complete with vomit-stained rugs
 
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