"I don't care how strong you are. It's not strong enough!" Roy Match Up Thread

[GunBlaze]

3.1 vs 3.2. Not too much of a difference data-wise, but JESUS during gameplay.

 

[Vicas]

Wolf is the fastest faller in the game iirc

Ayup. Spacies have almost a neat log curve going for them, in weight vs fall speed

 

[ShadowGanon]

Wait, Captain Falcon falls faster than Fox?!?!?!

 

[Ghetto Blush]

how do you guys approach match-ups that involve heavy zoning and space control (diddy, snake, zelda, link)?

 

[Shokio]

Vs. Link: Run and duck as you close the distance. You'll either duck right under the boomerang or arrow or at least crouch cancel them. Up close though, Link will slap you with the boomerang toss, so be careful with your distance. Empty jumps > Grab is also very effective as most Link's automatically shield if they see you jump over a rang.

Vs. Diddy: Stop what you're doing for a split sec and watch/read the Diddy. You can't play too fast against Diddy as you could easily fall right into a trap. What I like to do is stay at mid distance and wait for a banana toss, catch it, throw it back, and used the converted banana to approach. You have to kinda play hot-cold against Diddy, and use his own tools against him.

Vs. Zelda: Stay at mid distance and wait till you see them use Din's. Once you see Zelda pull her arm back, jump in and punish. The move has enough startup and endlag to where it's easily punishable at mid distance. Also dash dance or wavedash back and forth at close-ish distances and try to bait out a dash attack. Whenever Zelda is in the air SHIELD, as most try to teleport ON you. Punish the second you see her Up-B hit your shield.

Vs. Snake: Snake's are grabby. Get ready to read grabs so you can spot dodge or WD backwards and grab him yourself and throw him into his mine. Don't charge in when he's holding a grenade whether he's on the ground or in the air. Wait till you see it blow up and then attack immediately afterward. Like when a Snake is coming back on-stage with a grenade - wait, let it blow up, then hit him with an ariel Flare Blade.

These are things that work for me.

 

[FlamingForce]

Need some tips for sheik cos that ***** bopped me the other day.

Feel like the moment she much as nicks you with a move you get autocombo'd and die.

 

[Sethlon]

Her nicks don't amount to much if you crouch cancel. I used to beat Melee sheiks all the time by just wavedashing around, waiting in crouch, and then CC dtilting them for tons more damage than they would hit me with. Just gotta watch out for dash attacks aimed at interrupting your movement and grabs.

 

[Deleted member]

sheik vs roy is actually pretty fun in pm now that roy is a character with real moves. As long as you put sheik in the air/above you, you're probably going to feel pretty good. Also yeah CCing stuff and having good spacing is also important.

 

[mimgrim]

This seems like the best place to ask this, since it involves Roy against a certain character.

Anyways. Is Roy able to CG Fthrow Sonic more then he does other characters? I was goofing around with Roy in training mode try to test out combos he can do on different character and testing on Sonic, no matter how the computer DI'd when it decided to DI, couldn't seem to escape being Fthrowed for a good while, I was able to still Fthrow chain him past 70%. Or is this something already known? Or what?

Just curious.

 

[Deleted member]

"when he decided to DI"
bingo. He's just not DIing out of it at all lol. Try it vs a real person

 

[mimgrim]

"when he decided to DI"
bingo. He's just not DIing out of it at all lol. Try it vs a real person

I don't get to play against people as often as I would like.

Next time a Smashfest gets hosted, at a reasonable time for me, and if our Sonic mains shows up I'll definitely try it.

I'm rather limited on when I can try things against people >_>.

 

[Deleted member]

If you have a second controller, just hold left or right using your foot (controlling sonic) and f throw with roy

 

[mimgrim]

I've tried that before on other things I wanted to test out.... Didn't work out so good as I would somehow revert back to neutral by doing that. But I suppose I could try doing that method again.

EDIT - Yea. I got a bit over zealous. Normal DI away doesn't stop it. But DI down and away does allow him to escape it. I got overzealous. >_>

 

[TFerg]

Ways I deal with Zelda is to stay right outside of her range and make grounded approaches based on baiting laggy moves all while getting a feel upon how she reacts. Ideally you're fishing for smashes or Din's Fire at mid range in which can be punished with a full on approach with whatever if she throws one a little far and a solid F-tilt if she tries to throw one close trick you. Properly spaced, the f-tilt should destroy the projectile and hit her all the same. I'm not entirely sure but I think keeping a low profile also helps deal with lightning kicks assuming she isn't fastfalling to do so to hit low. CC d-smash and also u-tilt may deal with canceling farore's wind in front of your face to trick you as well.

Try not to jump in this matchup unless you just got a solid dtilt for a follow up. Spaced flare blade usually is a really safe option.

Pressure Zelda as much as you can to get her off stage to force her to recover. Flare blade or Fsmash should trade with the hitbox on FW if you get hit with it. Otherwise there's lag on her recovery that you can punish. Or if you think she's going straight for the ledge, grab it.

I personally feel this isn't tough for Roy you just have to play a bit differently. "Smart aggression".

This was REALLY helpful to me thank you!

 

[TFerg]

This isn't really matchup specific but one of the things I struggle with just in general is against characters with great grab speeds because I tend to overextend my spacing. Particularly against floaties like Mewtwo/Zelda, I have problems because I can't easily pull of combos on them like I'd like, and so I end up fishing for neutral game wins and get shield grabbed a lot.

Instead of jumping at someone with my fairs, should I just space with them a lot by jumping straight up? Wavedash and be patient with Dtilts? I just find that if I ever get bopped by someone it's because I'm trying to be too aggressive.

 

[bassem6]

Need some advice vs Kirby. Can't grab him when he crouches and I find it hard to find any openings to land f smashes. I also get wrecked from down throws into up tilts and tech chases. It's also hard to be mobile while grounded due to random unpunishable dash attacks and horizontal up b's into nairs...

From what I've tried, jab is good vs him, as is full hopped flare blades when he's not expecting it. Also his roll is fairly slow and easy to punish.

 

[Remo]

Hey fellow Roys! I need some advice on two match-ups.

Sheik and Falco.

I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong but I get smashed bad by both of these characters.

 

[YaBoy]

Hey fellow Roys! I need some advice on two match-ups.

Sheik and Falco.

I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong but I get smashed bad by both of these characters.

Her nicks don't amount to much if you crouch cancel. I used to beat Melee sheiks all the time by just wavedashing around, waiting in crouch, and then CC dtilting them for tons more damage than they would hit me with. Just gotta watch out for dash attacks aimed at interrupting your movement and grabs.

seth covered it pretty well for sheik at least. the important thing to know about sheik is that her neutral game is nearly non-existant. if you force her to approach you she will either a) dash attack, b) dash grab or c) needle camp. Dash attacks can be CC'd and punished, dash grab and needle camp wil probably require a bit more mobility, so try and stay on the move and bait//punish her.

Falco is a pain in the ass cause lasers. I've found that upthrow chains help build that hard-to-get early percent because once you get him off stage its basically a stock. Others might be able to help more.

 

[Remo]

seth covered it pretty well for sheik at least. the important thing to know about sheik is that her neutral game is nearly non-existant. if you force her to approach you she will either a) dash attack, b) dash grab or c) needle camp. Dash attacks can be CC'd and punished, dash grab and needle camp wil probably require a bit more mobility, so try and stay on the move and bait//punish her.

Falco is a pain in the *** cause lasers. I've found that upthrow chains help build that hard-to-get early percent because once you get him off stage its basically a stock. Others might be able to help more.

Thanks a bunch! I can predict Falco's easier than Sheik, and you're right about that space bird off stage. Never thought about CC'ing Sheik though.

 

[C2w]

Hello all! can I get some tips on the Roy Samus match up? Also is their a video thread for Roy?

 

[Blade-Fox]

Hello all! can I get some tips on the Roy Samus match up? Also is their a video thread for Roy?

It's not stickied so you may wish to bookmark it.

http://smashboards.com/threads/flames-of-pherae-the-roy-video-thread-last-updated-on-3-18-14.343533/

Also, the first post isn't updated with all the newest videos so you'll have to read through a few posts.

 

[Erik Aldereguia]

I was wondering if someone could clear something up for me

i get a lot of practice against an ike, but ive noticed something that im not quite sure how to react to. obviously ike likes to approach with quickdraw, and i generally try to CC it to dtilt it. however, on occasion, ill get knocked down. it doens't seem to matter much what % i am at, however i suppose i could be wrong. not sure if its a sweetspot sorta thing, or if its how much quickdraw has been charged.

if its the latter, what should i do to a low charge as opposed to a high charge quickdraw? since i dont want to shield because thats just asking to get jc grabbed out of quickdraw.

 

[Azureflames]

This has been brought up before i'm sure, but how do you guys approach the Roy vs. Marth MU? I've been trying to learn how to deal with Marth but he gives me so much trouble. My gameplan is usually try not to get grabbed, stay mobile to space away from random Fsmashes and either fish for Dtilt openings or Fthrow grab combos>tech chases. My biggest thing is trying to get back to neutral once marth gets momentum going in a stock or when i get forced to the edge of the stage. Resetting the flow of the match seems impossible sometimes, for me at least.

Also a random fundamental's side note...I'm really new to the whole SDI thing. Would there be anything to consider specifically for applying SDI in this matchup? (my thoughts were for attempted dair spikes right at the ledge and Marths Fthrow? That low% Fthrow chain throw combo's so hard to deal with)

 

[AthleticNerd93]

Is Roy a good MU for a Mario? I heard Marth is but I would rather play a Roy. Advice?

 

[Azureflames]

Roy suffers more in my experience at getting past the pill wall than marth. Marth with his floatiness gives him more leeway with swating pills or jumping over and maneuvering in that sense. Roy's weight and fall speed also make him combo food at certain percents for mario as well. However, I think that once Roy gets in on Mario he can do some serious combo damage, possibly more-so than Marth. I think its all about just playing the standard Roy game of Fthrow, tech chase, get them off the edge and pressure hard. These are from my experiences at least

 

[CyberZixx]

I would assume Roy loses even harder in neutral than Marth but has a better punish game. Roy probably can't even think about Edguarding. Roy certainly don't do great vs Mario.

 

[FlashingFire]

Need some advice vs Kirby. Can't grab him when he crouches and I find it hard to find any openings to land f smashes. I also get wrecked from down throws into up tilts and tech chases. It's also hard to be mobile while grounded due to random unpunishable dash attacks and horizontal up b's into nairs...

From what I've tried, jab is good vs him, as is full hopped flare blades when he's not expecting it. Also his roll is fairly slow and easy to punish.

Sup Bassem! I haven't played much Roy/Kirby, but I'll throw some theorycraft your way. Who knows, it might actually work.

One thing you could try in neutral is empty hopping towards Kirby, gradually gaining stage control, until he commits to something like a Dash Attack or a jump in. Fair is quick enough that you can react to pretty much any of Kirby's approaches.

For most characters, Roy likes to be underneath them, but Kirby's buffed Down-B makes this less than desirable. If you can position yourself below and a bit to one side of Kirby though, you have all kinds of hitboxes to work with while Kirby's linear attacks are rendered mostly useless.

Now, as for crouching. This is a royal pain - Roy would prefer that Kirby be in the air like I mentioned, but as you well know, the crouch makes him hard to grab and Kirby has a very fast CC Dtilt. Feel free to play Marth for a bit and space Kirby out with the max range of your sword until you feel comfortable breaking the puffball's CC with Dtilt or Dsmash.

For KO options, Fair > Fsmash can work at mid-high percents, Uair > Bair does well, lost of stuff combos into Flare Blade, and Fthrow > DACUS is a thing.

Hope that helps!

 

[bassem6]

Sup Bassem! I haven't played much Roy/Kirby, but I'll throw some theorycraft your way. Who knows, it might actually work.

One thing you could try in neutral is empty hopping towards Kirby, gradually gaining stage control, until he commits to something like a Dash Attack or a jump in. Fair is quick enough that you can react to pretty much any of Kirby's approaches.

For most characters, Roy likes to be underneath them, but Kirby's buffed Down-B makes this less than desirable. If you can position yourself below and a bit to one side of Kirby though, you have all kinds of hitboxes to work with while Kirby's linear attacks are rendered mostly useless.

Now, as for crouching. This is a royal pain - Roy would prefer that Kirby be in the air like I mentioned, but as you well know, the crouch makes him hard to grab and Kirby has a very fast CC Dtilt. Feel free to play Marth for a bit and space Kirby out with the max range of your sword until you feel comfortable breaking the puffball's CC with Dtilt or Dsmash.

For KO options, Fair > Fsmash can work at mid-high percents, Uair > Bair does well, lost of stuff combos into Flare Blade, and Fthrow > DACUS is a thing.

Hope that helps!

Sup dude! Thanks for the input. Thankfully, I managed to win the last time I played him haha.

 

[Sethlon]

Dash grab reaches lower than standing grab, and will snag those pesky Jiggs/Kirbys who like to sit in crouch all day.

 

[Mooch]

Are there matchups where it is more beneficial to use roy's side b?

 

[InfinityCollision]

It's decently useful in general. Different variations rack up damage and/or KO depending on your opponent, their %, and how far you go in the sequence. Turnaround 4th hit is a nice safety option if they try to get behind you. Smart pacing, choosing the right variant, and knowing when to continue or stop will determine how much mileage you get out of it.

 

[Goobgoyle]

Not sure if this has been discussed, but how does Roy stack against smaller characters like Squirtle, Pikachu and Kirby?

 

[Azureflames]

I dont have personal experience really but i hear its a really good matchup against squirtle. As for pikachu and kirby? I can imagine you can combo decently well on both pikachu and kirby

 

[Kaysick]

I've learned that Nair copter tech chasing against Link can really mess him up. Played a ton of friendlies against a local Link player and he even noticed how good it was. Getting around his projectiles and his easy combos is the hard part. Shffl fairs are really nice to space him and get rid of that pesky boomerang.

 

[JesusTheSecondComing]

Any advice on the roy dedede matchup? Whenever I try to approach I get shield grabbed and thrown off the stage and get ftilted ledgeguarded to death. I know I suck but I don't suck that much I just have no idea what to do! what do you recommend for better approaching options and recovering from off stage?

 

[Deleted member]

don't touch his shield all that often, doing stuff like nair and d tilt on his shield obviously doesn't work so you should grab him and tech chase him. You have to outspace him, commit less, and just grab (the first 2 are hard, the third is fun)

 

[JesusTheSecondComing]

don't touch his shield all that often, doing stuff like nair and d tilt on his shield obviously doesn't work so you should grab him and tech chase him. You have to outspace him, commit less, and just grab (the first 2 are hard, the third is fun)

Grabs are definitely useful. My spacing has been improving wave dashing in and out and getting little pokes with my ftilt. Hardest part is telling myself not to approach with aerials which is something I love to do! But thanks for the advice really helpful.

 

[Charmilio]

so I just got bodied vs a ROB and had to pull out ivy to handle his down-B and lasers. is the Roy/ROB MU all about spacing? I feel like once I get in on him I should be able to make work (so far my most consistant approach has been nair), but he just nairs me back and then my approach is just gone. Any advice?

 

[Shokio]

He just nairs you back? His nair has some start-up to it, he should be able to use it like that.

The MU is all about sticking close to ROB. Don't let him keep you at bay. ROB literally has no good OoS shields options. All he can do is grab, so that's all you have to worry about when approach him. Do a Tomohawk (empty jump > grab) once you get over his laser and gyro. Or come in with a Nair, but space it so that you actually cross up his shield and you'll land behind him. Since people can't do reverse grabs OoS, ROB's only option is to RUN when you do that, meaning he will come out of his shield and be vulnerable. That's when you strike.

Fair's combo him fairly well.

Also, whenever he's air-dashing (using his horizontal Up-B do dash-dance in the air, just keep your eye soley on him and wait for the right moment to throw out a counter. Usually, ROB's will come down with Nair, that has some start-up to it. If not Nair, they'll come down with Fair, in which case you'd have to be prepared to react faster.

If you keep pressure on ROB and counter his ariel game, victory will be yours.

 

[Deleted member]

Rob is another character I don't like as roy, mainly because CC Dsmash and he shield grabs a lot of stuff.

oh and also his f tilt is like as big as ours, NO ONE CAN HAVE AN F TILT AS BIG AS OURS (shut up DDD mains)