"I don't care how strong you are. It's not strong enough!" Roy Match Up Thread

[Fenrir VII]

Anybody else think that the marth matchup might be even or in Roy's favor?

Been playing around with it, and it seems like they can combo each other well, but Roy's combos all seem to lead into a kill move. Marth has more range, but Roy has some really good safe pokes to keep Marth from grabbing him.
Essentially, Marth has a slight advantage in the neutral, but if Roy can avoid gimps (which I think is possible), Roy kills Marth like 50% earlier than vice versa on average... That's a pretty big equalizer.

Also worth noting that Roy kind of out-Marth's Marth, as far as stages go. I think Roy benefits from the small stages (BF, yoshis, FoD, etc) more than even Marth...

Idk, just my 2 cents

 

[Commander]

Anybody else think that the marth matchup might be even or in Roy's favor?

Been playing around with it, and it seems like they can combo each other well, but Roy's combos all seem to lead into a kill move. Marth has more range, but Roy has some really good safe pokes to keep Marth from grabbing him.
Essentially, Marth has a slight advantage in the neutral, but if Roy can avoid gimps (which I think is possible), Roy kills Marth like 50% earlier than vice versa on average... That's a pretty big equalizer.

Also worth noting that Roy kind of out-Marth's Marth, as far as stages go. I think Roy benefits from the small stages (BF, yoshis, FoD, etc) more than even Marth...

Idk, just my 2 cents

You are dead wrong in everything in that post. I'm not even sure about where to begin. Essentially all of Marth's match ups go in one way: the first person who commits to anything loses, and when Roy uses any of his attacks, there is more than enough lag for Marth to do anything to destroy him. Range does not keep you safe from grabs because you do not get grabbed when you are close(especially when fighting Marth) , you get grabbed when you miss something or do something dumb and get stuck in lag. When you get stuck in lag is also when you get hit by things like Marth's fsmash and Roy has a lot of lag on everything. Roy also cannot evade gimps against a smart and experienced Marth. The very second Roy is off stage he has two options: sweet spot or recover above stage. If the Marth ledge hogs he has one option that leaves him in horrendous lag. The other thing the Marth can do is just go down and hit Roy with anything once and that would gimp him. The most humiliating thing the Marth can do is if the Roy does not sweetspot he can simply use counter for a free gimp. Roy also does not benefit from small stage anywhere near as much as Marth does and large stages like FD are bad for a fast faller like Roy. When Roy is on a small stage with close platforms, when he tries to hit an opponent through the platform he is often using the weakest part of his attacks while Marth would be using the strongest.

Anyone who thinks anything is even about the Roy-Marth match up is even or in Roy's favor is delusional.

 

[Kapapanerp]

Anyone have any experience with the Diddy MU?

 

[BertEast]

Anyone have any experience with the Diddy MU?

Firstly use his bananas against him.





That is all I got, sorry

 

[Fenrir VII]

You are dead wrong in everything in that post. I'm not even sure about where to begin. Essentially all of Marth's match ups go in one way: the first person who commits to anything loses, and when Roy uses any of his attacks, there is more than enough lag for Marth to do anything to destroy him. Range does not keep you safe from grabs because you do not get grabbed when you are close(especially when fighting Marth) , you get grabbed when you miss something or do something dumb and get stuck in lag. When you get stuck in lag is also when you get hit by things like Marth's fsmash and Roy has a lot of lag on everything. Roy also cannot evade gimps against a smart and experienced Marth. The very second Roy is off stage he has two options: sweet spot or recover above stage. If the Marth ledge hogs he has one option that leaves him in horrendous lag. The other thing the Marth can do is just go down and hit Roy with anything once and that would gimp him. The most humiliating thing the Marth can do is if the Roy does not sweetspot he can simply use counter for a free gimp. Roy also does not benefit from small stage anywhere near as much as Marth does and large stages like FD are bad for a fast faller like Roy. When Roy is on a small stage with close platforms, when he tries to hit an opponent through the platform he is often using the weakest part of his attacks while Marth would be using the strongest.

Anyone who thinks anything is even about the Roy-Marth match up is even or in Roy's favor is delusional.

Don't be so close-minded. I understand I might be wrong here, but you seem to be coming from the "Roy is bad" way of thinking from Melee. I think he does much better in the matchup than you give him credit for.

First off, "when Roy uses any of his attacks, there is more than enough lag for Marth to do anything to destroy him" is just plain false. A spaced dtilt, Nair, etc is safe on shield and in general, and doesn't have enough lag for Marth to punish. Roy actually does have a good, safe pressure game... a point that was brought up in the Link discussion.

"you get grabbed when you miss something or do something dumb and get stuck in lag". Roy has enough non-laggy attacks that this shouldn't apply. "Roy has a lot of lag on everything" is just false again

RE: recovery. First off, Marth's recovery is pretty bad too (albeit somewhat better than Roy's), so nearly everything you just said ALSO applies vice versa. I'll get back to that.
There are ways to get around gimps through clever upB use, as most Roys have experienced. admittedly, nothing is foolproof, but you can make Marth commit to one edgeguard strategy and then get around that with good play. Specifically, if Marth edgehogs, and you land on stage, he's not guaranteed much of a punish... revers upB, grab > nothing, uair > combo (can be DI'ed away), or weak fsmash are essentially his only punishment options from jumping off the ledge, so you won't likely get killed from that scenario. Now in the reverse scenario, if Roy edgehogs and Marth lands on stage, Roy is guaranteed a strong fsmash punish... big difference. Main point here is that Roy offstage vs. Marth is only a slightly worse situation than Marth offstage vs. Roy, so it's mostly a wash to me.

Now stages... clipping platforms with strong/weak attacks is mostly irrelevant to what I was saying. Smaller blast zones = kills are easier = gimps are less of a factor = Roy's benefit. In addition to that, Roy's utilt and uair both cover ENTIRE platforms and lead to nice juggle setups, which can usually end in a fsmash or dsmash, or even neutral B (which, again, will kill Marth on smaller stages). Roy's platform play is pretty close to Marth's, imo... sure, you don't get the clipped fsmashes (although you can get clipped NeutralB's), but you do get entire platform cover with faster jumps and good kill setups.

 

[Commander]

Don't be so close-minded. I understand I might be wrong here, but you seem to be coming from the "Roy is bad" way of thinking from Melee. I think he does much better in the matchup than you give him credit for.

First off, "when Roy uses any of his attacks, there is more than enough lag for Marth to do anything to destroy him" is just plain false. A spaced dtilt, Nair, etc is safe on shield and in general, and doesn't have enough lag for Marth to punish. Roy actually does have a good, safe pressure game... a point that was brought up in the Link discussion.

"you get grabbed when you miss something or do something dumb and get stuck in lag". Roy has enough non-laggy attacks that this shouldn't apply. "Roy has a lot of lag on everything" is just false again

RE: recovery. First off, Marth's recovery is pretty bad too (albeit somewhat better than Roy's), so nearly everything you just said ALSO applies vice versa. I'll get back to that.
There are ways to get around gimps through clever upB use, as most Roys have experienced. admittedly, nothing is foolproof, but you can make Marth commit to one edgeguard strategy and then get around that with good play. Specifically, if Marth edgehogs, and you land on stage, he's not guaranteed much of a punish... revers upB, grab > nothing, uair > combo (can be DI'ed away), or weak fsmash are essentially his only punishment options from jumping off the ledge, so you won't likely get killed from that scenario. Now in the reverse scenario, if Roy edgehogs and Marth lands on stage, Roy is guaranteed a strong fsmash punish... big difference. Main point here is that Roy offstage vs. Marth is only a slightly worse situation than Marth offstage vs. Roy, so it's mostly a wash to me.

Now stages... clipping platforms with strong/weak attacks is mostly irrelevant to what I was saying. Smaller blast zones = kills are easier = gimps are less of a factor = Roy's benefit. In addition to that, Roy's utilt and uair both cover ENTIRE platforms and lead to nice juggle setups, which can usually end in a fsmash or dsmash, or even neutral B (which, again, will kill Marth on smaller stages). Roy's platform play is pretty close to Marth's, imo... sure, you don't get the clipped fsmashes (although you can get clipped NeutralB's), but you do get entire platform cover with faster jumps and good kill setups.

Roy has more than enough lag on his moves to get grabbed by Marth and then immediately be comboed by him. Safe on shield means nothing in the Marth matchup because Marth should never be in shield in the first place, just dash dancing and wavedashing till openings come up. Other than dtilt what moves does Roy even have that aren't laggy enough to not get grabbed?

Regarding recovery: this is still very much Marth's game. Marth's recovery not being spectacular isn't a problem in this match up like it is in others because Roy can't actually do anything to effectively edgeguard him other than edgehog and that doesn't have the same power if Marth stalls with his side special. I don't understand how you can say Marth doesn't have much of a punish when edgehogging and then include grab. Have you ever even seen a Marth? Here is M2K almost getting a zero to death on Sethlon off of a single grab: http://youtu.be/_6msKCpYHEI?t=2m34s. Getting grabbed by Marth a any point is literally the worst thing you can ever do in any Marth match up, even a ditto. Also in the same amount of time Marth would go for that weak fsmash you mentioned he could instead go for reverse dolphin slash which is one of the strongest horizontal killers in the game and even if the blast lines were large and Roy didn't hit them, he would be way too far to be able to recover.

Regarding small stages: Small stags help Marth more so. Marth's problem is getting kills, and with small blast lines even weak fsmashes kill. The fact that Marth gets the better platform game to as a result of hitting with the strongest part of his attacks also puts those stages strongly in Marth's favor. Also gimping is always present on any stage. Just watch Marth vs Falco on Yoshi's Story. The size has little bearing n whether or not you get gimped.

 

[Kapapanerp]

Firstly use his bananas against him.





That is all I got, sorry

using his bananas against him or at least throwing them off stage is important to do regardless, specifically I was looking for advice on safe approaches and ways to escape some of the pressure he puts on Roy.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Roy has more than enough lag on his moves to get grabbed by Marth and then immediately be comboed by him. Safe on shield means nothing in the Marth matchup because Marth should never be in shield in the first place, just dash dancing and wavedashing till openings come up. Other than dtilt what moves does Roy even have that aren't laggy enough to not get grabbed?

Regarding recovery: this is still very much Marth's game. Marth's recovery not being spectacular isn't a problem in this match up like it is in others because Roy can't actually do anything to effectively edgeguard him other than edgehog and that doesn't have the same power if Marth stalls with his side special. I don't understand how you can say Marth doesn't have much of a punish when edgehogging and then include grab. Have you ever even seen a Marth? Here is M2K almost getting a zero to death on Sethlon off of a single grab: http://youtu.be/_6msKCpYHEI?t=2m34s. Getting grabbed by Marth a any point is literally the worst thing you can ever do in any Marth match up, even a ditto. Also in the same amount of time Marth would go for that weak fsmash you mentioned he could instead go for reverse dolphin slash which is one of the strongest horizontal killers in the game and even if the blast lines were large and Roy didn't hit them, he would be way too far to be able to recover.

Regarding small stages: Small stags help Marth more so. Marth's problem is getting kills, and with small blast lines even weak fsmashes kill. The fact that Marth gets the better platform game to as a result of hitting with the strongest part of his attacks also puts those stages strongly in Marth's favor. Also gimping is always present on any stage. Just watch Marth vs Falco on Yoshi's Story. The size has little bearing n whether or not you get gimped.

Gotta say, I really think you're off base here, and I'd like to hear from other Roy players on this, so I'm going to try to keep this brief and only hit the main points.
-with proper spacing, most of Roy's moves are not laggy enough to get grabbed. I'm not sure why you think differently, honestly.. Nair, dtilt, dair, DED first hit, fair, etc are all pretty safe if used correctly (not to even mention Roy's grab game) Also running shield is a common Marth approach. That's why "safe on shield" matters.
-Roy can edgeguard Marth pretty well, onstage and off, depending on situation. Once he gets the edgehog, he can dj stall a side b stall, so he forces Marth to upB, similarly to how CF edgeguards Marth. You're discrediting him there.
-I'm making the assumption that you're at fairly high % if Marth is edgeguarding you... Hence how grab works at 0% is irrelevant. DI down-away doesn't let Marth have anything other than a tech chase at best, which is definitely nothing guaranteed. And I mentioned the reverse upB... But it sends Roy cross-stage, so doesn't even give another edgeguard at low to mid %s
-I'll take your stage example. Falco does better against Marth on yoshis than on dreamland. This is because Falco can get easier kills to offset the gimps. The same concept applies to Roy... If Roy can kill Marth at 50-70%, gimps matter a lot less. I don't see why you're not getting this.

 

[Commander]

Gotta say, I really think you're off base here, and I'd like to hear from other Roy players on this, so I'm going to try to keep this brief and only hit the main points.
-with proper spacing, most of Roy's moves are not laggy enough to get grabbed. I'm not sure why you think differently, honestly.. Nair, dtilt, dair, DED first hit, fair, etc are all pretty safe if used correctly (not to even mention Roy's grab game) Also running shield is a common Marth approach. That's why "safe on shield" matters.
-Roy can edgeguard Marth pretty well, onstage and off, depending on situation. Once he gets the edgehog, he can dj stall a side b stall, so he forces Marth to upB, similarly to how CF edgeguards Marth. You're discrediting him there.
-I'm making the assumption that you're at fairly high % if Marth is edgeguarding you... Hence how grab works at 0% is irrelevant. DI down-away doesn't let Marth have anything other than a tech chase at best, which is definitely nothing guaranteed. And I mentioned the reverse upB... But it sends Roy cross-stage, so doesn't even give another edgeguard at low to mid %s
-I'll take your stage example. Falco does better against Marth on yoshis than on dreamland. This is because Falco can get easier kills to offset the gimps. The same concept applies to Roy... If Roy can kill Marth at 50-70%, gimps matter a lot less. I don't see why you're not getting this.

-A Marth with proper spacing would just be outside the hitbox and he wold have enough time to JC grab. I've never seen running into a shield in a match ever. Maybe that's a Brawl tactic but that wouldn't work in Melee/P:M.
-Roy cannot stall as long as Marth does. Roy cannot go very low to edge guard because he cannot make it back. Roy does not have that much flexibility with edge guarding.
-Watch the video again, but from the beginning of the match instead. Not even 10 seconds in and M2K had Sethlon off stage and almost gimped him but the spacing was a little off. If you do the reverse up -b right by getting be hind them it sends to the blast zone.
-Marth kills at 50% on Yoshi's too so I don't get were Roy's power helps him when Marth is added jut as much if not more. Also Falco does beter on Yoshi's than dream land not because a lack of gimps(you can watch countless videos of Falco's getting gimped to hell and back on Yoshi's) but because it is easier for him to chase and combo his opponents. Since Falco's combos go up and down, the closer platforms give him another area to hit his opponent from. Gimps certainly mater and have just as much power on Yoshi's as they do on any other stage. I don't think you understand how good Marth is at gimping everyone. Trying to stall below the ledge? Jumps down for sideb>reverse upb. Trying to sweetspot? Dtilt. No matter what stage you are on, there will be a point you have to recover and Marth can get you right there better than any other character. The smaller stages only help Marth with fsmash, sideb, and upb kills, so Roy ends up enjoying no advantage.

 

[BertEast]

Here is my two cents on the matchup whether or not you guys agree is up to you.

Against Marth, here are some of the pro's I noticed.
-Roy is a very quick character who can get up close to Marth relatively easily, as we know, marth doesn't do a good job when overwhelmed
-Roy is a great Juggler, and marth has a very hard time defending or getting away from it.
-Roy has several good moves for getting marth up in the air, such as dtilt, uthrow, and more
-Roy can get and keep Marth off the stage very well
-Roy can chain grab Marth pretty decently

Here are some Cons
-Marth can outspace Roy(Except for ftilt) and gets rewarded more for doing so
-Marth can combo Roy relatively well
-Marth can handle Roy's recovery as well, although I personally believe Roy does a better job edgeguarding
-Marth outspeeds Roy
-Marth has a better overall recovery
-Marth can juggle Roy, yet not to the same extent IMO

These are some of the things I've noticed in the matchup, I personally believe the matchup is in Marth's favor, but only slightly

Also, regarding the video
Don't look to it as definite proof that Marth destroys Roy. Lets remember that M2K has invested A LOT of time playing Marth, and has been around a lot longer. Marth is also way more developed than Roy. M2K is better at the game overall than Sethlon, although Sethlon is a really good player.

 

[Sethlon]

Honestly, I think Roy v Marth is pretty much even in PM. Marth does space him out fairly well and get better rewards off of it, but Roy ftilt can invade his space and Marth is a great weight for Roy combos. Marth shouldn't ever be able to JC grab punish anything Roy does, unless you space/time something poorly...dtilt spaces too far away from it, and stuff like falling fair/nair have little enough lag that you could just jab him as he's coming at you. On a read he could possibly grab you, sure, but unless you're chucking out bad tilts or missing l-cancels or something you shouldn't ever be getting truly punished with JC grab.

Dash in shield is a technique I see used fairly often. Its nice for getting deep into someone's space when you're not sure you can challenge their attacks. (You're spacing with a short hop fair? Well, that would be safe, if I hadn't dashed in and shielded, putting you within shield grab range!)

Against Marth's grab DIing away and down will save you from any fthrow followups, but Roy can still get comboed off of Marth's upthrow. Upthrow -> uptilt can lead to some nasty combos (as you can see in my Apex set vs M2k). Marth is actually a good weight for Roy throw combos though; if you anticipate which way they will DI your throw, you can do the opposite throw (fthrow for DIing in, dthrow for DIing away) and get a regrab until around 45%ish, with obvious followups if you want to end the sequence early.

Roy can edgeguard Marth fairly well IMO. The huge arc of flareblade cuts through his sideB stalls easily, and even just fairing him can often push him out far enough for a simple edgehog to finish him off. Marth can drop super low where Roy can't chase him, but if he does he puts himself at risk of getting edgehogged and losing an entire stock. Marth has better tools for edgeguarding in his bair and spike, but Roy's upB is much better for intercepting an opponent who's trying to chase you off stage.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Thanks, sethlon... Glad to hear I may not be crazy...

 

[Sliq Nasty]

Anyone have a lot of experience with the DK match up? A new DK player just moved to Chicago and he three stocked my Roy twice in our last weekly. It seems like it's tough to really go in on him without getting jab-grabbed, shield grabbed, or out ranged by things like f-tilt or dtilt. Normally I'm the one with the ridiculous grab range but DK's is just stupid, and Roy has a hard time coming down with all those up-air chains out of cargo uthrow.

Plus DK is really tough to KO because most of my kill options are off the side, and DK is supet heavy AND has good horizontal recovery. Sometimes I feel like only good mix up I have is a lucky counter during an up air chain or reading a roll with a downsmash. Help plz, I want some new tricks for the next weekly on Saturday.

 

[Azureflames]

You are dead wrong in everything in that post. I'm not even sure about where to begin. Essentially all of Marth's match ups go in one way: the first person who commits to anything loses, and when Roy uses any of his attacks, there is more than enough lag for Marth to do anything to destroy him. Range does not keep you safe from grabs because you do not get grabbed when you are close(especially when fighting Marth) , you get grabbed when you miss something or do something dumb and get stuck in lag. When you get stuck in lag is also when you get hit by things like Marth's fsmash and Roy has a lot of lag on everything. Roy also cannot evade gimps against a smart and experienced Marth. The very second Roy is off stage he has two options: sweet spot or recover above stage. If the Marth ledge hogs he has one option that leaves him in horrendous lag. The other thing the Marth can do is just go down and hit Roy with anything once and that would gimp him. The most humiliating thing the Marth can do is if the Roy does not sweetspot he can simply use counter for a free gimp. Roy also does not benefit from small stage anywhere near as much as Marth does and large stages like FD are bad for a fast faller like Roy. When Roy is on a small stage with close platforms, when he tries to hit an opponent through the platform he is often using the weakest part of his attacks while Marth would be using the strongest.

Anyone who thinks anything is even about the Roy-Marth match up is even or in Roy's favor is delusional.

• This is all very true from my experiences. Roy has an incredibly tough time against an experienced marth. As Roy you literally cant mess up anything, you have to play a perfect spacing game and you cannot get grabbed under any circumstance. If you get grabbed and comboed you will most likely be behind unless the marth messes up really bad. If he gets you offstage and knows how to space your recovery you're gonn have such a hard time. All the marth needs to do is space and predict if youre gonna try to jump high or roll/drop recover with an aerial. In the first case he can just uptilt you or Fair you since Roys jump is so short. If you roll on stage or aerial onto the stage he can easily dash and shield grab you. Marth has an incredible edgeguarding pressure game against Roy.
• You mention stage picks as well, and IMO there is no option for Roy vs Marth that is better for roy than marth. The best bet i always have is picking bigger stages with medium or high platforms so i can escape and stay mobile. FD is a nightmare and yoshis island/Fountain of dreams can be a difficult stage since marth can zone just as well as roy in most cases.
• Overall i think Roy is at a disadvantage but the matchup is doable, but it's very very sensitive to go into marths favor quickly if you mess up

 

[BertEast]

Also, how do you guys feel about toon link MU?

 

[BertEast]

• This is all very true from my experiences. Roy has an incredibly tough time against an experienced marth. As Roy you literally cant mess up anything, you have to play a perfect spacing game and you cannot get grabbed under any circumstance. If you get grabbed and comboed you will most likely be behind unless the marth messes up really bad. If he gets you offstage and knows how to space your recovery you're gonn have such a hard time. All the marth needs to do is space and predict if youre gonna try to jump high or roll/drop recover with an aerial. In the first case he can just uptilt you or Fair you since Roys jump is so short. If you roll on stage or aerial onto the stage he can easily dash and shield grab you. Marth has an incredible edgeguarding pressure game against Roy.
• You mention stage picks as well, and IMO there is no option for Roy vs Marth that is better for roy than marth. The best bet i always have is picking bigger stages with medium or high platforms so i can escape and stay mobile. FD is a nightmare and yoshis island/Fountain of dreams can be a difficult stage since marth can zone just as well as roy in most cases.
• Overall i think Roy is at a disadvantage but the matchup is doable, but it's very very sensitive to go into marths favor quickly if you mess up

Most of the things you mentions as tools marth has, roy also has. Hard punishes, strong grab combos, and ect ect. Also, skyworld Is a good stage from my experience

 

[Azureflames]

Most of the things you mentions as tools marth has, roy also has. Hard punishes, strong grab combos, and ect ect. Also, skyworld Is a good stage from my experience

• Roy does have similar tools yes, but the outcome isnt always the same for rewards. I think the defining thing is that marth can gimp Roy and has a spike. He also has tipper over Roy. Roy has a harder time killing at low percentages and taking early stocks, marth can get easy gimps by being able to bair low from ledgegrab without dying or even chain grab from 0% to Dairdumpster with Fthrow.
• On the flipside Roy has a lot of the same options in essence but can't gimp as easily or at as low of a percent that marth could. The trick to winning is that you HAVE to rack up damage before you can take stocks (which is how it goes for the majority) as opposed to some of the stronger gimps/spikes that others have (marth Dair, Fox shinespike, Falco Dair, falcon Dair/SideB, Ganon Dair, etc). This alone is a defining disadvantage to Roy in the roy vs marth MU.
• Note that you can compare jump speed/fall speed/character weight. Roy is medium around same weight as marth, but hes way easier to juggle due to his fall speed, and because of his fall speed his jump speed can suffer. This shows most if you're on a stage like battlefield with platforms and marth is edgeguarding roy, theres a spot where Roy has an impossible time just trying to jump off ledge and jump over marth; marth doesnt really need to try a Fair, he can just Tipper Fsmash or uptilt and get you off the edge again. Now flipflop the situation; Marth due to his floatiness and jump height/speed can jump high enough to avoid Grounded moves or even SH Fair in some cases (or at least bait out the Fair and retaliate with his own Fair). The only correct response is to full hop Fair/Nair and continue pressuring on edge.
• I want to clarify my opinion in that i think it's somewhat close and can teeder to either players favor. Most every situation has a counter action that can be done and theres no one huge thing that i think puts marth over the edge in terms of having advantage. Rather, it's a multitude of smaller strengths that when added all together, can give marth a slight advantage that can make the match much easier for him in comparison to Roy.
• Granted it could be that he just really knows how my brain ticks and counters my play well.

 

[Hatianhalf]

Hey, uh... Threads broke. :/ I really wanted to read the mu with mewtwo.

 

[Sliq Nasty]

But like seriously, does anyone have tips for dealing with Donkey Kong? I feel like if I can beat this guy I have chance at top 2 at this weekly.

 

[G13_Flux]

on DK: DK is tough because simple shielding and CCs have the potential to take away so many of roys options. In DKs case, he has the range on grabs and his dtilt to make that a reality. you really have to work to space attacks here and keep DK on his toes. be very mindful of trying not to get shield grabbed and stay as unpredictable as you can, so its harder for him to land a successful grab or be able CC as effectively. do your best to get him in the air. you are definitely going to have to be nimble with roy and play it very smart in neutral. CCing works well in your favor too, as dtilt is such a good set up. spaced ftilts can help counter the range on his tilts. if you have matches recorded of when you played him, or remember what happened, think back to the ways he started punishes on you. were they grabs because you ran in trying to pressure? or maybe you were too defensive and he had plenty of time to slide in with a JC grab. either way, take what you know about how he punished you, and start trying to make reads as to what hes going to do. roy definitely doesnt win it in neutral vs DK, so you have to mix up your strategies a lot and focus on thinking about what hes thinking.

on toon link: you are faster than him for the most part. you can also swat away a lot of his projectiles with fair. you also out range him a lot, so spaced attacks will work wonders. you just need to navigate the maze of projectiles, and with any character like that, all it takes a solid read and youre in. stay safe with fairs (like i mentioned above), and when you get the chance, things like dash attack, dtilt, ftilt, or nair can help you make the jump to get in.

on marth: i agree that it could be close. i think your punishes as roy are more reliable and consistent. marth has a smaller window of opportunity where his spike punishes will work, being more dependent on your percent, and both of your positions. your combos however, work at most realistic percents and can segway into kills anywhere on the stage. you also definitely do edge guard marth a tad harder. regardless of the punish games though, its no question that i think marth has it in neutral with his better speed and overall range (except for ftilt, which is your saving grace in this MU). so its just a matter of managing to get a good punish on him from neutral.

on diddy: i think were screwed in this MU. the edge guard potential on you is real, and in neutral, well.. roy is unfortunately much slower than diddy and doesnt have a very reliable way of dealing with his bananas. if you can keep diddy constantly on edge with smart pressure it might not be as bad, but its just so hard to get through in neutral here. good reads are a must. get the naners when you can.

 

[LastArc]

Thanks everyone for the match up details against Link. It helped big time <3 Now I've come across another match up that i am having problems with. How does Roy fight Pit? I got destroyed in this match up pretty hard the other day :/

 

[Spralwers]

I really like shffl'd retreating fairs in the DK match up. DK can't punish them if performed at max range, and if you do get a hit, or you bait out an attack that you defend through shielding/WD back/DD back, it opens up an opportunity to take the offensive. I use them as a way of keeping DK from grabbing.

I also find nair to be a rather decent OoS option. All of DKs attacks have decent end lag. So by keeping his opportunities to grab at a minimum, you'll force him to attack your shield more, and you can definitely punish him OoS.

That has been my experience so far, and I'll keep posting updated thoughts as my Roy gets better and Poob's DK gets better.

 

[Azureflames]

I really like shffl'd retreating fairs in the DK match up. DK can't punish them if performed at max range, and if you do get a hit, or you bait out an attack that you defend through shielding/WD back/DD back, it opens up an opportunity to take the offensive. I use them as a way of keeping DK from grabbing.

I also find nair to be a rather decent OoS option. All of DKs attacks have decent end lag. So by keeping his opportunities to grab at a minimum, you'll force him to attack your shield more, and you can definitely punish him OoS.

That has been my experience so far, and I'll keep posting updated thoughts as my Roy gets better and Poob's DK gets better.

Seems legit to me, Nairs, spaced/campy Fairing works. I've also found Ftilt to work wonders in this matchup as well

 

[A Revelation]

The real tragedy in this whole thing is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6msKCpYHEI&feature=youtu.be&t=5m32s


Roy's Dair isn't a spike


Also I think a threat everyone is forgetting is Marth's dash attack, which can punish A LOT of things grabs cannot. Your spaced fair on maybe safe from grabs but dash attack controls the ground really really well. I would tip the match up towards Marth's favor.

Marth:
-Smoother grab combos
-Better Recovery (slightly)
-Faster ground speed (Gives him better/farther D-tilt pokes and dash attack)
-Bigger grab
-Floaty(allows for some low chasing gimps/trades)
-Shield Breaker (Makes us play without shield :'[ )


Edit: What the hell is up with smashboards editing? The more I just delete things like the collapse tag those bullets multiply by themselves. WHAT IS WRONG?!

 

[Oaty]

I have some questions for the Wolf MU.
-Is Wolf the same weight as the other spacies, or is he heavier/lighter? When I try to combo him I feel like what usually works against spacies tends to not work against him.
-Which way should I DI his shine to avoid getting styled on?
-If he is a different weight then the other space animals then what are some quick combos and finishers that work on Wolf?
-How should I space Wolf? All of his smashes have good range and he's pretty good in the air so getting in on wolf is a challenge sometimes

Also just some tips on the MU in general and opinions on it would help.

 

[jtm94]

Anyone think they could hook me up with some generalized MU ratios for the characters where MUs are kind of certain?

I am still trying to fill out my chart and I don't think I've talked to any of the Roy's on here.

The colors are basic:
Red: is really bad
Orange: kind of bad
Yellow: unfavorable
Light Green: favorable
Darker Green: good
Darkest Green: free win

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to give me a general consensus on what characters are known!

 

[BertEast]

Roy vs. Luigi is in Roy's favor at about 60:40. I've played a **** ton of this matchup, Although you can't combo him, you can outspace him and edgeguard him to hell. However, if he gets 1 hit in, prepare your anus

 

[alandaband]

Does anyone have any tips against the Jiggs MU? I know Roy is supposed to fare well against floaties but I'm having a hard time getting the spacing right against Jiggs' aerials.

Apologies if this has already been asked, but I used the search function and couldn't find anything in this thread.

 

[BertEast]

Does anyone have any tips against the Jiggs MU? I know Roy is supposed to fare well against floaties but I'm having a hard time getting the spacing right against Jiggs' aerials.

Apologies if this has already been asked, but I used the search function and couldn't find anything in this thread.

First of all, don't attempt to grab a grounded Jigglypuff. If she crouches it, you will get rested.

 

[Oaty]

Someone tell me about the Kirby MU.

 

[YaBoy]

avoid the edge. kirbkaze's are really volatile, but only really work if you try and challenge them at the edge. else tis mostly the same stuff. kirby is really light so he gets murdered by roys huge knock back, but also makes it hard to combo. compensate for this with shorter combos, maybe relying on only 1 or 2 tilts at a time to rack up damage and end with like dtilt-> nB

 

[Spralwers]

What do you guys think of Lucario? Normally as Roy, I don't have any character specific issues against anyone that needs to get in close to deal damage, even spacies. But Lucario wrecks me for some reason.

 

[BertEast]

What do you guys think of Lucario? Normally as Roy, I don't have any character specific issues against anyone that needs to get in close to deal damage, even spacies. But Lucario wrecks me for some reason.

I honestly recommend picking up a different character, since when lucario gets in, you die.
My advice is to CC and use your superior range to keep him out

 

[FlamingForce]

I dunno I've played against Mr R's lucario a decent bit and I wouldn't call it completely impossible by any stretch, Roy can score some pretty decent combos of his own.

 

[CyberZixx]

In that match up you gotta be patient in neutral and score for dtilts. Stay at a range and poke/dash dance where he can't shoot fire balls. Any other option in neutral you can CC dtilt. Wavedash back into fmash may be a good option vs Dash attack too.

Both characters combo each other deadly hard. So make sure any opening counts. Edguaring can be tricky but that is why I like stages with closer blastzones to kill early.

 

[Spralwers]

Makes sense. I handle the match up much better with Marth, mainly because I'm really patient and just keep poking at him at range. Roy I have a tendency to just go in because it's so tempting, even if I don't solidify myself in neutral. I think it's just a general habit I need to work on, and Lucario seems to punish it the hardest of any other character I face off against (2nd being Link). Thanks!

 

[ShadowGanon]

I have some questions for the Wolf MU.
-Is Wolf the same weight as the other spacies, or is he heavier/lighter? When I try to combo him I feel like what usually works against spacies tends to not work against him.
-Which way should I DI his shine to avoid getting styled on?
-If he is a different weight then the other space animals then what are some quick combos and finishers that work on Wolf?
-How should I space Wolf? All of his smashes have good range and he's pretty good in the air so getting in on wolf is a challenge sometimes

Also just some tips on the MU in general and opinions on it would help.

How on earth the people in this thread didn't notice your post is beyond me. I mean, your font was in pink. How do you miss that?

Wolf doesn't fall as fast as the other spacies, so some of the things (like up throw chain grabs) don't work as well on him.
I'd say DI down and away from his shine and be sure to tech roll away when you hit the ground.
Wolf's shine is Crouch Canceleable.
Make sure that you don't get hit by his n-airs and don't try to shield grab when he does them on shield (he'll just shine).

 

[GunBlaze]

How on earth the people in this thread didn't notice your post is beyond me. I mean, your font was in pink. How do you miss that?

Wolf doesn't fall as fast as the other spacies, so some of the things (like up throw chain grabs) don't work as well on him.

He actually falls faster than Falco

 

[ShadowGanon]

He actually falls faster than Falco

Really? For some odd reason I thought he fell slower than Falco... Hmm...

 

[FlamingForce]

Wolf is the fastest faller in the game iirc