How would be Smash Bros.' future without Sakurai (at least as Director) ?

[Toon612Link]

Knowing Nintendo they would replace him with someone worse... I do think this is the last SSB sakurai will make though.

 

[J04KlM]

Sakurai said himself that he wouldn't bother with a character if they offer nothing for SSB, and Mewtwo really doesn't have anything with his Melee moveset.

Yet, you praise Dark Pit's inclusion?

Huh... imagine that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yet, you praise Dark Pit's inclusion?

Huh... imagine that.

I'm sure you've realized by now that every "clone"(Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, Lucina) were extremely late additions and took very little work to make, right? Sakurai even said so that they were decided upon later anyway and were promoted Alts. Not comparable to characters you can't port a moveset over for.

 

[the8thark]

I'm sure you've realized by now that every "clone"(Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, Lucina) were extremely late additions and took very little work to make, right? Sakurai even said so that they were decided upon later anyway and were promoted Alts. Not comparable to characters you can't port a moveset over for.

Is a clone better than no character (ie not promoting the skin to a clone)? I think that is the question. My gut feeling is no. But I'm not sure.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Is a clone better than no character (ie not promoting the skin to a clone)? I think that is the question. My gut feeling is no. But I'm not sure.

Definitely is better. Especially when at least one of them required more effort as a costume than as a clone, strangely enough. For Dr. Mario, you have to remodel his B(for sound effect and general animation), Side B(for unique colors), and Down B(to make it look like a Doctor tool), and probably Up B(since his effects are electric, not just coins), and most definitely his Smash A(to look like electricity). Notably, there's enough Air Down A drill kicks to modify the damage but use a new animation based upon Luigi's model, and it took less time to do the Doctor Tornado then the variant model of FLUDD.

If Dark Pit and Lucina weren't chosen, we'd probably just get Alph instead and nobody else, as no other Alts exist.

 

[J04KlM]

I'm sure you've realized by now that every "clone"(Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, Lucina) were extremely late additions and took very little work to make, right? Sakurai even said so that they were decided upon later anyway and were promoted Alts. Not comparable to characters you can't port a moveset over for.

Implying i didn't know this.

What i was getting at is that LancerStaff bashes on Mewtwo for "not bringing anything to the game" with his Melee moveset, yet he praises a clone that was added at the last second of development which brings even less to the game, just stacks up the roster quantity, that's it.

Seems hypocritical.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Implying i didn't know this.

What i was getting at is that LancerStaff bashes on Mewtwo for "not bringing anything to the game" with his Melee moveset, yet he praises a clone that was added at the last second of development which brings even less to the game, just stacks up the roster quantity, that's it.

Seems hypocritical.

I can't disagree with that. But I've seen weird stuff like calling Shield Rolling, a beyond common and well-known hyper easy technique an "Advanced Tech", so with all due respect to him, I don't get his thought process at all. I will admit I have said hypocritical things before, though. Maybe there's something he considers Dark Pit to be unique about that we're not seeing? Not counting his Final Smash, he's pretty much a slight variation of Pit, so I don't get how he can be praised for being unique at all moveset-wise, yet Mewtwo is the most unique cut we ever experienced.

Also, back to Dr. Mario a bit, his weight and jump and even strength makes me feel like they took Metal Mario from 64 and reinvented him. Albeit, with a Melee Mario moveset and Megavitamins, but considering Dr. Mario wasn't that heavy in Melee, well...

 

[TroperCase]

Better with him, but the series can still improve from game to game without him, depending on who takes his place. With each game, he's laid better-and-better groundwork (hate on Brawl aside, it clearly has a better foundation than Melee). I would hope Nintendo has paid him enough salary that he could retire comfortably if he so chose.

 

[Frostwraith]

I can't disagree with that. But I've seen weird stuff like calling Shield Rolling, a beyond common and well-known hyper easy technique an "Advanced Tech", so with all due respect to him, I don't get his thought process at all. I will admit I have said hypocritical things before, though. Maybe there's something he considers Dark Pit to be unique about that we're not seeing? Not counting his Final Smash, he's pretty much a slight variation of Pit, so I don't get how he can be praised for being unique at all moveset-wise, yet Mewtwo is the most unique cut we ever experienced.

Also, back to Dr. Mario a bit, his weight and jump and even strength makes me feel like they took Metal Mario from 64 and reinvented him. Albeit, with a Melee Mario moveset and Megavitamins, but considering Dr. Mario wasn't that heavy in Melee, well...

I don't have a link, but in the interview where he talked about the three clones, his reasoning for Dark Pit was primarily to give him some different weapons from Pit. Do mind that there are 108 different weapons in Kid Icarus: Uprising, each with their own proprieties and gameplay. On top of that, you can have multiple of each weapon with individual bonuses and stats, making for almost endless possibilities.

Dark Pit's Final Smash has him use the Dark Pit Staff instead of the Three Sacred Treasures.

His side B has him use an Electroshock Arm instead of an Upperdash Arm. The change here is the launch angle and the former has electrical damage.

He uses a Silver Bow instead of a Palutena Bow. The Silver Bow is stated to be a prototype of the Palutena Bow and looks identical except in color. In Smash, Silver Bow's arrows have less curvature and range but more power compared to Palutena Bow. Silver Bow is Dark Pit's weapon of choice throughout most of Uprising's story. Whenever playable, he can use any weapon, just like Pit.

In a way, it's a reasoning similar to Dr. Mario, who uses Megavitamins instead of fireballs, has electrical proprieties instead of fiery proprieties and doesn't use FLUDD. Likewise, Dark Pit uses his own weapons instead of Pit's arsenal.

I'd say it's Sakurai being nitpicky with both Dr. Mario and Dark Pit when it comes to certain moves.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't have a link, but in the interview where he talked about the three clones, his reasoning for Dark Pit was primarily to give him some different weapons from Pit. Do mind that there are 108 different weapons in Kid Icarus: Uprising, each with their own proprieties and gameplay. On top of that, you can have multiple of each weapon with individual bonuses and stats, making for almost endless possibilities.

Dark Pit's Final Smash has him use the Dark Pit Staff instead of the Three Sacred Treasures.

His side B has him use an Electroshock Arm instead of an Upperdash Arm. The change here is the launch angle and the former has electrical damage.

He uses a Silver Bow instead of a Palutena Bow. The Silver Bow is stated to be a prototype of the Palutena Bow and looks identical except in color. In Smash, Silver Bow's arrows have less curvature and range but more power compared to Palutena Bow. Silver Bow is Dark Pit's weapon of choice throughout most of Uprising's story. Whenever playable, he can use any weapon, just like Pit.

In a way, it's a reasoning similar to Dr. Mario, who uses Megavitamins instead of fireballs, has electrical proprieties instead of fiery proprieties and doesn't use FLUDD. Likewise, Dark Pit uses his own weapons instead of Pit's arsenal.

I'd say it's Sakurai being nitpicky with both Dr. Mario and Dark Pit when it comes to certain moves.

Huh, I don't remember the weapons bit, but it makes perfect sense to me. Of course, he didn't have time to heavily implement this stuff, so a near direct same moveset was all he could do.

Also, a small theory: What if he made most of the trailers before the clones got promoted? Could this be why Dark Pit wasn't named directly onscreen? Or maybe he wanted to let us find out ourselves. It's an interesting thing to think about. Now, obviously Robin's Trailer happened or was edited after he considered Lucina ready to promote. We already know, as pointed out before by the timing of the ERSB leak, that Lucina was actually a full character with a slot before Robin and Palutena's trailer was put up. Palutena's trailer might've been finished and too hard to edit decently regardless of Dark Pit's promotion, which would easily explain why he wasn't told was playable despite being playable by the time of the trailer's release.

Unrelated, I hope that Dr. Mario appears in one of the trailers, if Bowser Jr. gets his own. I also would love, if he had any more characters planned for the Wii U, like say a quick clone he made(or a returning vet he had enough time to do between both versions) would show up in Duck Hunt's trailer. Keep in mind they'd be available for the 3DS soon enough. I'm not counting on this, but I can say it has a remote chance of possibility due to the time taken for revamping, say, Wolf, would not be that long anyway.

I expect DLC later instead character-wise. It's cool we got day 1 DLC for a Mode, but that wasn't much hype-worthy. It proved DLC exists by default(just like what Mario Kart 8 got), but it doesn't mean we will get any more notable DLC. I do have a good feeling about it, though.(I'm not including gameplay patches/error fixes for the type of DLC I want. Those are a given since he already did that too)

 

[LancerStaff]

When did I say every character that will come in will be unique? Sakurai never said that either. They're more likely to get in. If you actually read his interview, you know that it's a set of guidelines and not a strict formula. Honestly? I think Mewtwo is pretty much guaranteed back unless zero DLC characters happen, despite evidence showing the game is well prepared to accept them.

Oh, and fyi? Young Link, Falco, Luigi(till Melee no less), Roy, Dr. Mario, and Ganondorf did not bring anything truly unique to their debuts, not any more than Mewtwo did. Falco was just essentially Smash 64 Fox. Young Link was just a weaker Link with better jumping skills. Ooh, a fire projectile is sooooo "unique". Ganondorf didn't bring any darkness attacks, Mewtwo did so first. Power moves? DK and Bowser covers that fairy well, with Falcon somewhat too. Many characters attacked with fire before Roy, and all his moves were basically the same as Marth except his Flare Blade which just a chargeable Falcon Punch at that point. Dr. Mario was the same as Mario, with slightly varied properties. Luigi was barely different from Mario in the first game. I wouldn't call a damage taunt all that unique either. Not when it barely did much till Melee, when it could meteor smash someone. Pichu is the only clone to bring something unique, and that's damaging himself as a major mechanic. Lucario later turns "being damaged" into a severely helpful mechanic instead, the good version of it. Note how not all of these are solely because of the clone factor. That should you tell you something about how uniqueness can be applied.

So no, being ununique isn't as relevant as you spout it out to be. Mewtwo was intended to be in the first game, you know. He didn't get in due to the time constraints. Jigglypuff could be partially cloned from Kirby, which is why she was in the first game. Her high popularity in Japan also helped overall(and she was pretty good in that game too).

So you want to talk about unique cuts? Mewtwo(was worked on, Sonic came in and Jigglypuff was considered more important respectively. Not hard to grasp why he's not playable in Brawl. We know why he couldn't easily be playable right away in Smash 4), Squirtle, Ivysaur(these pair were most notable with Pokemon Trainer, lacked popularity, thus were easily lower priority), Ice Climbers(officially and only because they couldn't work on the 3DS properly), Wolf(less relevant now than Falco, time constraints), Lucas(Mother series is dead, his specials could be thrown onto Ness, his A moves were somewhat combined with Ness to a few degrees to make him less relevant but there in spirit), and Snake(nobody plays like him at all, just like Mewtwo, but we don't know any real reason he was cut).

And as a person who has played Mewtwo? Nobody has a combination of Darkness, Disabling, and Electrical attacks in that unique combinations anywhere close to like he does. In fact, he did bring something unique, darkness and a projectile that waves around, something nobody else has. There's your answer. He also had the first non-damaging Teleport move. The first deflector move that coud not damage or take control of an item. He's the only one that ever floated still to this day. Nobody can actually disable a person like he can. Putting them to sleep is an entirely different status effect, and breaking a shield is too difficult and everybody could do it regardless, not counting only he can put Jigglypuff in a disabled state reliably, since her shield breaking means she'll get KO'd in most courses.

I expect him back later in Smash 4. Do I want him back? Not as much as some. Should he? Yes. Will he? Can't see a good reason he won't come back with DLC inevitably coming.

The only characters the rules don't apply to are clones, and even then, the clones Brawl onwards were plenty unique.

Sakurai never said they are strict rules. He also never said they are not. Do you really think he'd come out and say that?

It simply doesn't matter how he has a unique set of gimmicks. He just devalues others in a game about having unique playable characters.

DLC? Plenty of games get DLC slots but no DLC. Arrows? Could be for the custom characters and stages. It isn't confirmed, nor inevitable.

Yet, you praise Dark Pit's inclusion?

Huh... imagine that.

Offers more then Mewtwo. DP's Electroshock Arm is a very powerful edgeguarding tool, since it has super armor and powerful knockback at a diagonal angle. Little risk too, since it doesn't put you into outright helplessness. No other character possesses edgeguarding like DP, not even Pit with customs.

Anyway, this isn't me bashing a character. This is me trying to be realistic. And when a clone with literally only four different moves offers more then a "unique" character, you know something is wrong.

I can't disagree with that. But I've seen weird stuff like calling Shield Rolling, a beyond common and well-known hyper easy technique an "Advanced Tech", so with all due respect to him, I don't get his thought process at all. I will admit I have said hypocritical things before, though. Maybe there's something he considers Dark Pit to be unique about that we're not seeing? Not counting his Final Smash, he's pretty much a slight variation of Pit, so I don't get how he can be praised for being unique at all moveset-wise, yet Mewtwo is the most unique cut we ever experienced.

Also, back to Dr. Mario a bit, his weight and jump and even strength makes me feel like they took Metal Mario from 64 and reinvented him. Albeit, with a Melee Mario moveset and Megavitamins, but considering Dr. Mario wasn't that heavy in Melee, well...

Huh? I never called rolling a tech. Sounds like you're getting a few of my rants jumbled.

But like I said, his Electroshock Arm is his main gimmick over Pit. Not that I like to brag, I wrote a combination Pit/Dark Pit guide. Damage, KO%s, a few techniques, yaknow the drill. If there's something to be known about the two, I know it. And I won't lie, there's really only four moves that are different between them, including the final smash. Still more then what Mewtwo brings.

 

[Dark Phazon]

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mewtwo will never be treated like a newcomer. Get over it. He already brought unique stuff to the table. That only means remaking his data with buffs is necessary. He's a full veteran in every way, just not one that can easily be transferred over.

Mewtwo will always be more unique than Dark Pit. Get over it. I seriously don't know how anyone can say this with a straight face. Pit and Mewtwo are equally unique. Dark Pit has literally no unique properties at all. He's a clone that used somebody else's moves. Most of Pit's and a remodeled Light ARrow. That was it. He has as much "uniqueness" as Lucina, to be frank. Dr. Mario is the only clone in Smash 4 that is fairly unique and that's it. Hell, he's practically Metal Mario with Megavitamins, different taunts, and a voice(and obviously no fire, but electricity instead). Nowhere near how Mario needs to be played. Dark Pit's metagame has been said to be next to identical of Pit's by many players. It could change, but that's the current status(if this has changed already, some actual competitive players are free to correct me). Likewise, since nobody plays anywhere close to how Mewtwo does, calling him less unique than Dark Pit, who plays almost exactly like another character(meaning they can't be unique), doesn't make any logical sense.

FYI, calling Shield Rolling "difficult" implies that it's actually an Advanced Tech. Maybe you didn't realize this. But most people will take it that way since that's really what makes them advanced, their difficulty. Which is clearly what I thought you were saying. It's obvious you didn't mean that exactly, but it's how people rate Techniques. Basic Techs require almost zero difficulty/practice. Advanced Techs requires tons of practice/difficulty. No more, no less. There are some that could go inbetween as well. Gliding and L-Cancelling are fairly easy to do at a reliable rate, but still take practice(very little), but aren't anywhere near difficult for people to perform. It's quite literally the middle ground of Beginner and Advanced. Not one clearly some like to take, but they did exist.

 

[LancerStaff]

Mewtwo will never be treated like a newcomer. Get over it. He already brought unique stuff to the table. That only means remaking his data with buffs is necessary. He's a full veteran in every way, just not one that can easily be transferred over.

Mewtwo will always be more unique than Dark Pit. Get over it. I seriously don't know how anyone can say this with a straight face. Pit and Mewtwo are equally unique. Dark Pit has literally no unique properties at all. He's a clone that used somebody else's moves. Most of Pit's and a remodeled Light ARrow. That was it. He has as much "uniqueness" as Lucina, to be frank. Dr. Mario is the only clone in Smash 4 that is fairly unique and that's it. Hell, he's practically Metal Mario with Megavitamins, different taunts, and a voice(and obviously no fire, but electricity instead). Nowhere near how Mario needs to be played. Dark Pit's metagame has been said to be next to identical of Pit's by many players. It could change, but that's the current status(if this has changed already, some actual competitive players are free to correct me). Likewise, since nobody plays anywhere close to how Mewtwo does, calling him less unique than Dark Pit, who plays almost exactly like another character(meaning they can't be unique), doesn't make any logical sense.

FYI, calling Shield Rolling "difficult" implies that it's actually an Advanced Tech. Maybe you didn't realize this. But most people will take it that way since that's really what makes them advanced, their difficulty. Which is clearly what I thought you were saying. It's obvious you didn't mean that exactly, but it's how people rate Techniques. Basic Techs require almost zero difficulty/practice. Advanced Techs requires tons of practice/difficulty. No more, no less. There are some that could go inbetween as well. Gliding and L-Cancelling are fairly easy to do at a reliable rate, but still take practice(very little), but aren't anywhere near difficult for people to perform. It's quite literally the middle ground of Beginner and Advanced. Not one clearly some like to take, but they did exist.

Never said he'd be treated like a newcomer, just that he'd take about as much effort as one.

It's not about how the moves look, it's how they're used. How many other characters have an on and off-stage edgeguarding tool with super armor and significant KO potential? Zero, even with customs. What does Mewtwo have that nobody else can do? Nada.

Dark Pit's metagame won't be similar, it will be the same. A Pit player can, and should, switch to DP in many matchups. I'm one of the very people advocating the idea, I'm one of those competitive players you just asked for, and any decent Pit/Dark Pit player will reiterate what I've just said. They'll share a spot on the official tier list, they'll share a forum soon enough, and they'll most certainly share players. DP has very little in terms of changes, but alot in how he's used. Less is more, in this case. This wouldn't be possible if every other move had different properties like Dr. Mario or Falco.

I've had debates over what "technique" means, but nothing like this. And I have no idea why you're attempting to drag in yet another thing to argue about. I'm not here in this topic to debate definitions, you understand? Take it somewhere else.

 

[Davidreamcatcha]

Getting back on topic here, even without Sakurai, I feel as though the next Super Smash Bros should be a sort-of-reboot for the series. Something to the extent of the bare minimum change for every character is getting a Bowser-style overhaul.

Same basic gameplay, just with a lot of tweakings to speed and style. Totally wipe out the roster and start from scratch in terms of who gets picked. It'd be an interesting change of the series.

 

[3DSplayer]

Even if Sakurai one day decides not to be director of the smash series, I'd think he'd still work on the project. I have no problem with him being replaced as long as he is still working on the project one way or another.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, good thing Mewtwo is beyond likely to come back anyway. And no amount of bullcrap or troll arguments that hold zero water regardless will stop it. DLC is beyond inevitable, and I'll just hold my glass up as he's announced. Since unlike with Brawl, where he didn't come up because they couldn't patch Brawl at all, that doesn't apply here. If DLC characters happen, there's no way he'll be left out again(really, nobody's buying that he's "not unique" when somehow Dark Pit is. I mean, seriously, dude? Do you honestly think that's a legitimate argument that anybody seriously buys?). Hell, I'd say every veteran except Snake, Young Link, and Roy are very likely to come back, some more than others.(and obviously Ice Climbers)

And since this is Sakurai, who doesn't like cutting people, and has zero issues with doing DLC(just specific kinds he's not a fan of), I'll just wait to see more than two DLC moments he's done. A Mode and a online fix patch for Peach. I can't wait myself.

 

[LancerStaff]

Well, good thing Mewtwo is beyond likely to come back anyway. And no amount of bullcrap or troll arguments that hold zero water regardless will stop it. DLC is beyond inevitable, and I'll just hold my glass up as he's announced. Since unlike with Brawl, where he didn't come up because they couldn't patch Brawl at all, that doesn't apply here. If DLC characters happen, there's no way he'll be left out again(really, nobody's buying that he's "not unique" when somehow Dark Pit is. I mean, seriously, dude? Do you honestly think that's a legitimate argument that anybody seriously buys?). Hell, I'd say every veteran except Snake, Young Link, and Roy are very likely to come back, some more than others.(and obviously Ice Climbers)

And since this is Sakurai, who doesn't like cutting people, and has zero issues with doing DLC(just specific kinds he's not a fan of), I'll just wait to see more than two DLC moments he's done. A Mode and a online fix patch for Peach. I can't wait myself.

Now it's to insults and dredging up old arguments?

 

[Frostwraith]

Let's not fool ourselves. Dark Pit hardly brings anything new to the gameplay.

Mewtwo can bring something new, especially if he's revamped. He had a unique moveset. That itself is more than what Dark Pit can bring.

I like both characters. I'm happy that Dark Pit is in, but I'll hope for Mewtwo as DLC.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Let's not fool ourselves. Dark Pit hardly brings anything new to the gameplay.

Mewtwo can bring something new, especially if he's revamped. He had a unique moveset. That itself is more than what Dark Pit can bring.

I like both characters. I'm happy that Dark Pit is in, but I'll hope for Mewtwo as DLC.

He brings the greatest animation for a gunshot-like Final Smash ever.

...I just wish he actually brought more beyond that. Okay, two slightly different specials, but eh.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

There would probably be less misleading teasing. Which would be a good thing.

 

[LancerStaff]

Let's not fool ourselves. Dark Pit hardly brings anything new to the gameplay.

Mewtwo can bring something new, especially if he's revamped. He had a unique moveset. That itself is more than what Dark Pit can bring.

I like both characters. I'm happy that Dark Pit is in, but I'll hope for Mewtwo as DLC.

That just isn't true. It doesn't matter if a character has unique animations if the moves just have the same properties. It simply isn't worthwhile to bring back a character for a couple of generic A moves.

 

[Wintropy]

That just isn't true. It doesn't matter if a character has unique animations if the moves just have the same properties. It simply isn't worthwhile to bring back a character for a couple of generic A moves.

I'm pretty sure the fans of every clone that has ever been and will ever be disagree furiously with your precise sentiment.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm pretty sure the fans of every clone that has ever been and will ever be disagree furiously with your precise sentiment.

Which part?

 

[Frostwraith]

That just isn't true. It doesn't matter if a character has unique animations if the moves just have the same properties. It simply isn't worthwhile to bring back a character for a couple of generic A moves.

Tell me, how does Dark Pit differ so much from Pit to the point he brings something new?

I mean, I'm not at all against variations of existing characters (AKA clones), unlike a good amount of people in this fanbase.

Even Lucina brings something different from Marth by removing the tipper in all of her moves.

Mewtwo in Melee may have not worked well, but that doesn't mean he should never return. By that logic, should Ganondorf have not returned from Brawl? He got buffs in this game that made him a much better character. Same for Bowser.

And the same could be done for Mewtwo. He needs a revamp like a lot of the returning characters had in this game, should he be a DLC character.

 

[Wintropy]

Which part?

That a character "isn't worth bringing back for the sake of a few generic A moves".

Most, if not all, clones are predicated on that distinction. It's a bit much to say that characters aren't worth it if they're clones. They've got fans, too, and I'm pretty sure they'd contend with such a bold statement.

 

[LancerStaff]

Tell me, how does Dark Pit differ so much from Pit to the point he brings something new?

I mean, I'm not at all against variations of existing characters (AKA clones), unlike a good amount of people in this fanbase.

Even Lucina brings something different from Marth by removing the tipper in all of her moves.

Mewtwo in Melee may have not worked well, but that doesn't mean he should never return. By that logic, should Ganondorf have not returned from Brawl? He got buffs in this game that made him a much better character. Same for Bowser.

And the same could be done for Mewtwo. He needs a revamp like a lot of the returning characters had in this game, should he be a DLC character.

Pit has his comparitively buffed arrows, while DP has the better Arm weapon. Pit can hit you at just about any point on or off the stage. DP's just about can't be redirected, and more or less function like Falco's lasers. Obviously it's not his strength. DP's Electroshock is a powerful edgeguarding tool and a KO move at the sides of the stage, like I've said. Pit's Upperdash will only just be to tack on damage until 140%, since it launches nearly straight up.

I've said that Mewtwo could of been revamped, but this argument was about Mewtwo's Melee moveset.

That a character "isn't worth bringing back for the sake of a few generic A moves".

Most, if not all, clones are predicated on that distinction. It's a bit much to say that characters aren't worth it if they're clones. They've got fans, too, and I'm pretty sure they'd contend with such a bold statement.

Like I've said earlier, the post-Melee clones have had significant gimmicks to them. Lucas has (or had, since Ness took it) his whole "magic out of his fingertips" thing, and Wolf has unique aspects on a bunch of moves. (The freeze-frame and multihit Ftilt, blaster that functions as a Melee attack, powerful yet unwieldy meteor on his Sspecial, ect.) The old clones have had obvious improvements too. And even back in Melee, Falco, Roy and Pichu had significant enough differences. Melee Mewtwo, especially now, lacks unique aspects.

I understand that the characters have fans, but as I've said before, it's not about the individual fans of X character. Let's say Robin got in as an almost exact Zelda clone. Who, besides Robin fans, would want to play as him? Give the character unique gimmicks, and even people who've never heard of the character will be interested.

 

[Wintropy]

Like I've said earlier, the post-Melee clones have had significant gimmicks to them. Lucas has (or had, since Ness took it) his whole "magic out of his fingertips" thing, and Wolf has unique aspects on a bunch of moves. (The freeze-frame and multihit Ftilt, blaster that functions as a Melee attack, powerful yet unwieldy meteor on his Sspecial, ect.) The old clones have had obvious improvements too. And even back in Melee, Falco, Roy and Pichu had significant enough differences. Melee Mewtwo, especially now, lacks unique aspects.

I understand that the characters have fans, but as I've said before, it's not about the individual fans of X character. Let's say Robin got in as an almost exact Zelda clone. Who, besides Robin fans, would want to play as him? Give the character unique gimmicks, and even people who've never heard of the character will be interested.

I don't get what this has to do with Mewtwo, though. Why are we even arguing about his Melee moveset when it's pretty distinctive in and of itself and he would almost certainly be entirely rewritten for Smash 4?

 

[LancerStaff]

I don't get what this has to do with Mewtwo, though. Why are we even arguing about his Melee moveset when it's pretty distinctive in and of itself and he would almost certainly be entirely rewritten for Smash 4?

A couple users decided to bring up how I main DP while I was saying Melee Mewtwo doesn't offer enough. And then that's just how the argument went.

And I still don't believe Melee Mewtwo has anything special. Palutena stole his Uspecial, Lucario has his Nspecial, Villager, Jigglypuff, and ZSS have his Dspecial more then covered, and then his Sspecial has no reason to be a combination of a reflector and a grab. His A moves are just blah, and his physical attributes aren't unique either.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't get what this has to do with Mewtwo, though. Why are we even arguing about his Melee moveset when it's pretty distinctive in and of itself and he would almost certainly be entirely rewritten for Smash 4?

To be clear, not exactly. It's going to be buffed and new moves probably will exist, but he'll play very similar to his old self.

Sakurai has gone on record to say he never changes any character to the point of alienating them from the fanbase. He arguably failed with Mario, but he attempted to keep most of his moveset so his intentions stayed the same.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Just PLEASE try not to have an American direct the series if Sakurai were to be replaced.That is all.

 

[RespawningJesus]

Just PLEASE try not to have an American direct the series if Sakurai were to be replaced.That is all.

Welp, time to start submitting my application to direct Smash 5 and make it the best thing since apple pie. WhIle I am at it, better submit my application to remake Other M so that we can erase that atrocity from the face of Pluto.

(Strangely enough, I had a dream that I was directing both of those games, and seeing that comment made me recall that dream. Oh, and btw, I did make some pretty awesome games in my dream.)

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly fear the day that this will happen.
I mostly fear the new director cutting fan favorite characters (like Captain Falcon or Ness for example) or the director will lose sight of what makes Smash Bros. fun.

 

[J04KlM]

@ LancerStaff

HAVE. THAT. SEAT.

 

[LancerStaff]

@ LancerStaff

HAVE. THAT. SEAT.

*ahem* My new signature:
"Dispite my pessimism for Mewtwo/DLC in general, I'm happy to see it. Don't go around with your "I told ya so"s, I never said it was impossible. It's just a reasonable doubt, and a worthy one after Ridley."

 

[TheTuninator]

So we can lay to rest the ridiculous whining that Sakurai never gives the people what they want now, right?

 

[J04KlM]

*ahem* My new signature:
"Dispite my pessimism for Mewtwo/DLC in general, I'm happy to see it. Don't go around with your "I told ya so"s, I never said it was impossible. It's just a reasonable doubt, and a worthy one after Ridley."

Oh, i'm sorry.

LancerStaff:
"If you don't mind, there's about 100 people I need to say "told you so" to."

Karma's a b*tch isn't it?

Better change your location to "Buried under 990+ i told you so's"

 

[LancerStaff]

LancerStaff:
"If you don't mind, there's about 100 people I need to say "told you so" to."

Funny, I remember saying that, but I don't remember about what. Care to remind me?

 

[J04KlM]

Funny, I remember saying that, but I don't remember about what. Care to remind me?

You are more than capable of going to your posts history and look for yourself, if your memory is really that cloudy.

But i don't think it is, you're just damage controlling yourself.

Stop embarassing yourself. You were wrong, deal with it.

 

[LancerStaff]

You are more than capable of going to your posts history and look for yourself, if your memory is really that cloudy.

But i don't think it is, you're just damage controlling yourself.

Stop embarassing yourself. You were wrong, deal with it.

It's just an honest question. And really, what argument did I lose? Melee Mewtwo still isn't as unique as DP, and we still don't know if Mewtwo will retain his Melee moveset.