How would be Smash Bros.' future without Sakurai (at least as Director) ?

[1TheBlueWii1]

Melee Mewtwo still isn't as unique as DP,

...Mewtwo isn't a clone though...

EDIT:
Define unique, btw. What part of Mewtwo isn't "unique"?

 

[Crocovile]

Are you serious? Dark Pit is more unique than Mewtwo? What the h*** man. One's a clone, the other's a completely unique character, and you know darn well which one's which.

 

[LancerStaff]

...Mewtwo isn't a clone though...

Techically he is though.

He doesn't offer anything unique, so he isn't unique. If Megaman just had Samus's charge shot, Link's bombs, Falco's laser, and Sonic's spring disguised as Megaman equivalents, he wouldn't exactly be unique, would he?

Edit: Sorry, didn't see the edit. He just doesn't do anything another fighter can't, and isn't unique as a result.

 

[Wintropy]

Guys, be civil. This is not the thread for that.

 

[J04KlM]

...Mewtwo isn't a clone though...

EDIT:
Define unique, btw. What part of Mewtwo isn't "unique"?

Are you serious? Dark Pit is more unique than Mewtwo? What the h*** man. One's a clone, the other's a completely unique character, and you know darn well which one's which.

Oh come on you guys, Dark Pit's Electroshock is obviously more unique than a character with his own standalone moveset. It's not like CancerStaff is being a biased fanboy or anything.

 

[LancerStaff]

Oh come on you guys, Dark Pit's Electroshock is obviously more unique than a character with his own standalone moveset. It's not like CancerStaff is being a biased fanboy or anything.

Right after Wintropy said to be civil, too...

Remove the visual that is Mewtwo. Remove the animations. We're talking strictly gameplay, here. Gameplay wise, Mewtwo does not have a niche. Dark Pit does. Thus, DP is more unique then Mewtwo. What part do you not understand? A couple different hitboxes, KB and damage on moves is a pretty poor difference. Whereas DP has a move with it's own unique time and place to use it. How is that not more unique then Mewtwo?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Gameplay-wise, nobody can perform the same moveset as Mewtwo. That makes him more unique.

Every character has "tiny bits" from someone else. That means nobody would be unique and thus, nobody every brought one unique thing to the table. One slightly different move than another character's does not make Dark Pit anywhere close to unique. He was never unique. He was "slightly different to a beyond low degree". Look, there's a reason every single person is telling you Dark Pit isn't as unique as Mewtwo. It's because he seriously is not. His single move is a variant of another. Nothing more.

Tell me one character that can use Disable exactly how it is or almost identical in regular gameplay. Wario Man is a Final Smash and it's not a "regular" move. He doesn't count. Mewtwo brings a 100% unique move and did most stuff first that others didn't. Dark Pit slightly varied one move, but otherwise brings nothing to the table. He just had a slight difference with Pit and his sole inclusion revolves more around popularity, as it was him or Alph at that point. He had almost no different moves, while everything but Mewtwo freakin' Jump patterns were completely unique. Now only two of his moves were copied, Teleport and Confusion. And only Confusion was copied to a slight degree. Disable and Shadow Ball are still entirely unique moves, which means he brings more than Dark Pit does even if you think his slight variant move is "unique" enough. Mewtwo pretty clearly wins with a 2 moves over 1. No, Aura Sphere is not like Shadow Ball beyond the ability to charge and its shape. It has a different pattern, and it increases in power depending on Lucario's damage. The properties are highly different, to the point they're extremely different moves.

 

[Joe73191]

Im not a fan of Sakurai's philosophy about smash's design choices after Melee. I didn't like what he did with Brawl that much, so if we get a new person to lead Smash back even closer to the direction Melee gave us, I would be all for that.

 

[LancerStaff]

Gameplay-wise, nobody can perform the same moveset as Mewtwo. That makes him more unique.

Every character has "tiny bits" from someone else. That means nobody would be unique and thus, nobody every brought one unique thing to the table. One slightly different move than another character's does not make Dark Pit anywhere close to unique. He was never unique. He was "slightly different to a beyond low degree". Look, there's a reason every single person is telling you Dark Pit isn't as unique as Mewtwo. It's because he seriously is not. His single move is a variant of another. Nothing more.

Tell me one character that can use Disable exactly how it is or almost identical in regular gameplay. Wario Man is a Final Smash and it's not a "regular" move. He doesn't count. Mewtwo brings a 100% unique move and did most stuff first that others didn't. Dark Pit slightly varied one move, but otherwise brings nothing to the table. He just had a slight difference with Pit and his sole inclusion revolves more around popularity, as it was him or Alph at that point. He had almost no different moves, while everything but Mewtwo freakin' Jump patterns were completely unique. Now only two of his moves were copied, Teleport and Confusion. And only Confusion was copied to a slight degree. Disable and Shadow Ball are still entirely unique moves, which means he brings more than Dark Pit does even if you think his slight variant move is "unique" enough. Mewtwo pretty clearly wins with a 2 moves over 1. No, Aura Sphere is not like Shadow Ball beyond the ability to charge and its shape. It has a different pattern, and it increases in power depending on Lucario's damage. The properties are highly different, to the point they're extremely different moves.

It's not a slight difference, it completely turns matchups around. Had the move been given to any other character and disguised with a different animation you'd be saying it's unique.

The problem being that Mewtwo is entirely "tiny bits."

ZSS's stun gun. Slightly slower startup, tons more reach, works in the air... Basically an all-around better disable. If you're looking for things that only work on the ground, we have just about every move that burries people and sing. If the Electroshock is somehow a variant, then Disable most certainly is.

How is Shadow Ball unique? It pushes him back? Pretty sure Lucario has a custom for that. It zigzags? Basically the same thing as making it bigger, which Lucario can also do. Don't tell me it's just the lack of the aura mechanic...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's not a slight difference, it completely turns matchups around. Had the move been given to any other character and disguised with a different animation you'd be saying it's unique.

The problem being that Mewtwo is entirely "tiny bits."

ZSS's stun gun. Slightly slower startup, tons more reach, works in the air... Basically an all-around better disable. If you're looking for things that only work on the ground, we have just about every move that burries people and sing. If the Electroshock is somehow a variant, then Disable most certainly is.

How is Shadow Ball unique? It pushes him back? Pretty sure Lucario has a custom for that. It zigzags? Basically the same thing as making it bigger, which Lucario can also do. Don't tell me it's just the lack of the aura mechanic...

Lucario has no move anywhere close to how Shadow Ball works beyond the basic "can damage someone while charging" and "it's a ball". All of his specials are different. Not hard to see why, because Shadow Ball probably will return. Honestly, that's like calling Mario and Luigi's Fireballs "similar". Customs may give them slightly similar property changes, but that's about it. Aura Sphere is a variant of Shadow Ball, but to a very small degree. We know for a fact Shadow Ball zigzags, which a Lucario player outright told me Lucario doesn't have that kind of custom move. We know it cannot gain power outside of the simple charge. Lucario's Aura Sphere increases based upon the charge and his aura mechanic. They're highly different moves that share quite literally two animations(ball design, charge design). They just aren't that similar. I do agree that both Teleports from Palutena and Mewtwo are similar, but Palutena also is used differently from most characters. She had supremely unique customs to change up her playstyle. She still can't be a stun player from the moves I saw, though, not to Mewtwo's degree, so she's clearly no replacement(plus, it's confirmed she doesn't really replace him anyway, since he's coming back). I think one of the Mii Fighters has a Deflector move, but it might've been a Super Cape remake. If that's the case, Confusion is entirely unique as well or basically not copied. That's 3 specials that only Mewtwo can do, Disable, Confusion, and Shadow Ball.

Stun Gun =/= Disable. They are nothing alike by design besides the fact the player is kept in place. Disable puts them in a dizzy state. This is a very specific thing that only happens when your shield breaks. Zero Suit Samus forcefully keeps them in place while damaging them and makes them twitch around. Regardless of similarities, it is not a variant whatsoever. They have widely different properties. One has far more range and works no matter what direction the opponent is in, and there's a current unbreakable combo against Robin ZSS can do with her Stun attack. Mewtwo uses his only at this point to set up for a Smash attack. Keep in mind ZSS is still in the middle of doing the move before it ends. Mewtwo meanwhile does not. They have completely different applications in 1 VS 1. ZSS does rack up damage, but once the move is over, they're no longer stunned at all. This means you can't hold them in place or keep them there so your partner can deal damage/use a major smash attack. Meanwhile, Mewtwo's Disable can set it up for a very powerful charge attack.

Mewtwo is built as a support partner. That's his whole style. Zero Suit Samus is built as a one-woman wrecking crew. They're nothing alike. I'd like to remind you that having a few characters with a move or two of someone else will never stop the other character from being unique. Mewtwo himself still stands as a unique character. You know who plays like him? No one. Because nobody can be used in a similar way to him. Even if they have one of his skills, they apply it very differently and even go so far as play entirely differently regardless. Also, the fact he's coming back proves you beyond wrong that "he doesn't bring anything unique to the table". Clearly, he does. We can't say exactly what Sakurai thinks his current unique move is, but if he comes back with nothing but buffs and no completely different moves, he was clearly still unique enough.

I don't really see how one character having a single move from Mewtwo suddenly stops him from being unique. If you seriously want to go by that logic, then the only unique character is... no one. Every damn character shares a move with someone else. You know, I don't remember if you replied to that point. I honestly did skim a lot of it while admittedly facedesking because I was bewildered by what I saw. Do you know why people were so pissed off at his Brawl cut? Two reasons; He was completely unique as a moveset(which still stands as of now, as you will find zero characters that can be used in anywhere close to a similar way to him. They all apply their moves too different overall), and he was one of the most popular. There was a 3rd reason, of course; "How the hell is Jigglypuff more important than him?!" Which obviously seems to be a Sakurai opinion anyway.

 

[LancerStaff]

Lucario has no move anywhere close to how Shadow Ball works beyond the basic "can damage someone while charging" and "it's a ball". All of his specials are different. Not hard to see why, because Shadow Ball probably will return. Honestly, that's like calling Mario and Luigi's Fireballs "similar". Customs may give them slightly similar property changes, but that's about it. Aura Sphere is a variant of Shadow Ball, but to a very small degree. We know for a fact Shadow Ball zigzags, which a Lucario player outright told me Lucario doesn't have that kind of custom move. We know it cannot gain power outside of the simple charge. Lucario's Aura Sphere increases based upon the charge and his aura mechanic. They're highly different moves that share quite literally two animations(ball design, charge design). They just aren't that similar. I do agree that both Teleports from Palutena and Mewtwo are similar, but Palutena also is used differently from most characters. She had supremely unique customs to change up her playstyle. She still can't be a stun player from the moves I saw, though, not to Mewtwo's degree, so she's clearly no replacement(plus, it's confirmed she doesn't really replace him anyway, since he's coming back). I think one of the Mii Fighters has a Deflector move, but it might've been a Super Cape remake. If that's the case, Confusion is entirely unique as well or basically not copied. That's 3 specials that only Mewtwo can do, Disable, Confusion, and Shadow Ball.

Stun Gun =/= Disable. They are nothing alike by design besides the fact the player is kept in place. Disable puts them in a dizzy state. This is a very specific thing that only happens when your shield breaks. Zero Suit Samus forcefully keeps them in place while damaging them and makes them twitch around. Regardless of similarities, it is not a variant whatsoever. They have widely different properties. One has far more range and works no matter what direction the opponent is in, and there's a current unbreakable combo against Robin ZSS can do with her Stun attack. Mewtwo uses his only at this point to set up for a Smash attack. Keep in mind ZSS is still in the middle of doing the move before it ends. Mewtwo meanwhile does not. They have completely different applications in 1 VS 1. ZSS does rack up damage, but once the move is over, they're no longer stunned at all. This means you can't hold them in place or keep them there so your partner can deal damage/use a major smash attack. Meanwhile, Mewtwo's Disable can set it up for a very powerful charge attack.

Mewtwo is built as a support partner. That's his whole style. Zero Suit Samus is built as a one-woman wrecking crew. They're nothing alike. I'd like to remind you that having a few characters with a move or two of someone else will never stop the other character from being unique. Mewtwo himself still stands as a unique character. You know who plays like him? No one. Because nobody can be used in a similar way to him. Even if they have one of his skills, they apply it very differently and even go so far as play entirely differently regardless. Also, the fact he's coming back proves you beyond wrong that "he doesn't bring anything unique to the table". Clearly, he does. We can't say exactly what Sakurai thinks his current unique move is, but if he comes back with nothing but buffs and no completely different moves, he was clearly still unique enough.

I don't really see how one character having a single move from Mewtwo suddenly stops him from being unique. If you seriously want to go by that logic, then the only unique character is... no one. Every damn character shares a move with someone else. You know, I don't remember if you replied to that point. I honestly did skim a lot of it while admittedly facedesking because I was bewildered by what I saw. Do you know why people were so pissed off at his Brawl cut? Two reasons; He was completely unique as a moveset(which still stands as of now, as you will find zero characters that can be used in anywhere close to a similar way to him. They all apply their moves too different overall), and he was one of the most popular. There was a 3rd reason, of course; "How the hell is Jigglypuff more important than him?!" Which obviously seems to be a Sakurai opinion anyway.

Shadow ball has a few, insignificant, differences. It's nothing game changing, especially compared to Aura Sphere.

Disable is effectively a worse stun gun. That tiny little difference doesn't amount to much else besides making the move worse. Since it physically does less then ZS Samus's move, it has less uses, and is less unique as a result. ZSS also has her Dsmash, which is even closer to Disable.
"Hi, I'm Mewtwo, and my gimmick is having random moves that are worse then the originals, dur." Yeah, you're totally selling me on the character.

And now we're measuring uniqueness in doubles? Natch, every unique aspect of every other character works in doubles. It's absolutely horrid game design if a character requires one specific mode, that's most certainly not the standard way of playing, to shine.

You're not paying attention again. I've been saying from the start that Melee Mewtwo has no unique aspects to him. Saying "blah blah Mewtwo got in so ur wrong" for the thousandth time won't work. Say it again and I'll just laugh.

Name one character that has absolutely no unique gimmick, besides Mewtwo. Now. Mewtwo is the only character without one.

And there's yet another reason Dark Pit is unique, ironically because of his extreme similarities. Effectively, he's a transformation that actually works the way they should of: Being able to switch to better tools for the situation without the hassle of learning another character. Let's be honest, your choice of a transformation was determined at the CSS. So the whole point of using transformations was completely moot, especially because you had to learn another character that likely didn't complement the other. With DP, not only can a Pit player learn how to use him quickly, and he doesn't clog up a move either. You're even safe picking either, since they have neutral matchups at worst. This is a completely unique advantage that DP, and only DP, offers. "Why not just give Pit his move," you say? That'd require nerfing Pit. The combination of good arrows and Electroshock would be too good for edgeguarding. He'd be able to readily punish any recovery to easily and too effectively. And let me tell you, too polarizing a character result in anger, as can attest to.

Now please, read it in full instead of coming up with another lame excuse as to why you "skimmed." If your argument is sound, then you should be able to counter every one of my points with ease.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So you're telling me a character who plays 99% the same as another(give or take a percent, but the idea is the same) is more unique than a character who plays like nobody else whatsoever(since you don't seem to really get it, it's the playstyle that matters, not one move only. Sakurai actually tries to make everyone feel as different from other characters as possible. You know for a fact no single character has a move that no other character shares overall. Every character has at least literally one move that at least another character can use, with the only difference being at best the models used. Shadow Ball and Disable have zero equivalents that work exactly like them. That immediately and factually makes them unique moves)? If that's your premise(which is exactly what you're saying), then this conversation is over. It's a thought pattern that nobody shares cause it doesn't make any bloody sense. Oh, and fyi, Mewtwo's Confusion has a very specific glitch called Soul Breaker. That nobody can perform. If that's not severely unique, I don't know what is. -_-

I'm done. I'm going to stick to facepalming, since that's the only response I can muster now from the bullcrap comparisons I keep reading.

 

[LancerStaff]

So you're telling me a character who plays 99% the same as another(give or take a percent, but the idea is the same) is more unique than a character who plays like nobody else whatsoever(since you don't seem to really get it, it's the playstyle that matters, not one move only. Sakurai actually tries to make everyone feel as different from other characters as possible. You know for a fact no single character has a move that no other character shares overall. Every character has at least literally one move that at least another character can use, with the only difference being at best the models used. Shadow Ball and Disable have zero equivalents that work exactly like them. That immediately and factually makes them unique moves)? If that's your premise(which is exactly what you're saying), then this conversation is over. It's a thought pattern that nobody shares cause it doesn't make any bloody sense. Oh, and fyi, Mewtwo's Confusion has a very specific glitch called Soul Breaker. That nobody can perform. If that's not severely unique, I don't know what is. -_-

I'm done. I'm going to stick to facepalming, since that's the only response I can muster now from the bullcrap comparisons I keep reading.

Okay, that helps your argument, how? Are you going to leave this ridiculousness unchecked?

 

[Crocovile]

I'd like for someone else to be in charge of the next smash, or at least Sakurai not having as much creative control as he does at the moment.

 

[Wintropy]

I wonder -

I mean, I actually genuinely physically wonder -

If Sakurai wasn't the director, would we have things like eight-player Smash and Smash Tour?

He's insane, but my word, is it a beautiful genius of insanity.

 

[The_Intruder]

I'd like for someone else to be in charge of the next smash, or at least Sakurai not having as much creative control as he does at the moment.

I agree it's time for a new director, yesterday after the direct I feel Super Smash Bros has changed for a Super Party Bros! Every single player modes feel just like vs mode with different rules, nothing more... And the main mode it's like mario party, I don't play smash for a Mario Party Game but a mix between Fighting/Adventure/party/Platform game, and this one has only Fighting/party game... Jeez even the event match are for beginner with the possibility to choose the difficulty of them, Sakurai didn't say this one is for the real players of smash? I'm honnestly dead inside of me after all of this, time for me to move on and follow developpers who have never disapointed me: Platinum Games.

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

No Sakurai should stay the director, the game will flop harder than a fish out of water without him.The game may be good without him but not as great. The director may **** everything up and only pick popular characters than what unique, it will be like the Kirby game of to day still good game but not as great when Sakurai was making them. I don't a game that mostly Mario and Pokemon characters and I feel that what the new director will give us and all the stress Sakurai go though to makes this game I think the new director wouldn't be able to that the heat and destroy the game. Sakurai makes smash what it is today and some new guy with no history of smash will ruin it.

 

[Metaboss]

Without him the games wouldn't be the same anymore.

 

[Skyblade12]

It's just an honest question. And really, what argument did I lose? Melee Mewtwo still isn't as unique as DP, and we still don't know if Mewtwo will retain his Melee moveset.

So, what character can use Disable? Because that alone was more unique than all of Dark Pit's changes put together. There's also Mewtwo's throwing game, which was one of the best in the series, and functioned differently both mechanically and aesthetically from everyone else's.

There's also Confusion. While of very questionable utility, it is certainly unique. Again, more so than Dark Pit's changes.

 

[Gamingboy]

Even if he leaves, Smash will continue. As it must continue. The ride never ends.

 

[SS-bros14]

Are we SERIOUSLY having an argument about DP being more unique than Mewtwo? Wow...

Funny, I remember saying that, but I don't remember about what. Care to remind me?

Not sure if this was answered, but you said it about the clones.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

I can't believe someone truly and foolishly believes a recolor of Pitt is more unique than a Melee veteran that had HIS moves taken and put onto other characters. Shadow Ball is to Aura Sphere like Mario's Fire Ball is to Luigi's Fire Ball.

Wait, yes I can. I remember arguing with this guy about Dark Pit in another thread. Same guy that said Smash wouldn't have DLC...

Seriously, @ LancerStaff ... I know you're a Kid Icarus/Dark Pitt fan but let be reasonable here. NO ONE in Melee plays like Mewtwo. Hell, NO ONE in ANY Smash game plays just like Mewtwo.

Other than that.... Nintendo is FULL of talented game developers just wanting to get their hands on a franchise passed down from a big wig developer. Remember when Miyamoto handed over the Legend of Zelda franchise? Mario Kart? Donkey Kong? I'm sure Sakurai has a pupil or two to pass on the torch. Personally don't think he's as great a man as Miyamoto but...eh. But I guess that stems from the fact I never disagreed with anything Miyamoto has done where as I occasionally question Sakurai's direct. (Tripping in Brawl still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth)

Still, I take nothing from Sakurai. His a great developer and he does know what it takes to make a fun game. I think he knows what the mass market wants. Only thing is, I enjoy the competitive side of Smash and that side of Smash is the minority so it's obvious that his design decisions are going to carter to the majority and not the minority that most of us come from.

If I had my way SSB3DS would be a separate entity entirely and in no way of hindered SSBWii U but hey, that's not the reality of things. He wanted them to be released next to each other and have few character differences. He wanted the game play to be fun and accessible more than deep and engaging. Not to say that it's not the ladder but the focus is obviously to be fun and accessible. And that's fine. Fun is how video games sell to the masses. At the same time, if I had my way I wouldn't have conceived so many interesting features like 8 man smash and the board game or Smash run. There is a lot in both version I thought "Wow, that's cool. Never would of thought of that" because he's the pro and I am not.

But at the end of the day it still irks me Lucina and Dark Pit are clones, Dr. Mario and Dark Pit are not costumes, Mario has a sprinkler for a special, Metriod, F-Zero, The Legend of Zelda, and Donkey Kong didn't get any new reps but Kid Icarus got 2, and Kid Icarus has 3 games and 3 reps. The SSB3DS is a great game and I am positive SSBWii U will be two but I'm just bothered by that and I would hope next console generation the game is created by someone who considered character representation and balance more thoroughly.

 

[WhiteCane]

It would lose all around detail and a bt of randomness in favor of a type fighter feeling. One specific thing I see happening is training lab missions to try and help promote "true" combos, that kinda stuff actually makes me nervous when I told "Do this to advance."

 

[Cammed Z28]

Sakurai =/= George Lucas

 

[LancerStaff]

So, what character can use Disable? Because that alone was more unique than all of Dark Pit's changes put together. There's also Mewtwo's throwing game, which was one of the best in the series, and functioned differently both mechanically and aesthetically from everyone else's.

There's also Confusion. While of very questionable utility, it is certainly unique. Again, more so than Dark Pit's changes.

Why use disable when you have twenty ways that are just flat out better?

What's special about his throws?

And as I've said before, having a move perform the function of two, rather poorly I may add, doesn't set him apart at all from those that do it separately.

Are we SERIOUSLY having an argument about DP being more unique than Mewtwo? Wow...

Not sure if this was answered, but you said it about the clones.

Ah, that's right. Thanks, er, I guess...

I can't believe someone truly and foolishly believes a recolor of Pitt is more unique than a Melee veteran that had HIS moves taken and put onto other characters. Shadow Ball is to Aura Sphere like Mario's Fire Ball is to Luigi's Fire Ball.

Wait, yes I can. I remember arguing with this guy about Dark Pit in another thread. Same guy that said Smash wouldn't have DLC...

Seriously, @ LancerStaff ... I know you're a Kid Icarus/Dark Pitt fan but let be reasonable here. NO ONE in Melee plays like Mewtwo. Hell, NO ONE in ANY Smash game plays just like Mewtwo.

Butt at the end of the day it still irks me Lucina and Dark Pit are clones, Dr. Mario and Dark Pit are not costumes, Mario has a sprinkler for a special, Metriod, F-Zero, The Legend of Zelda, and Donkey Kong didn't get any new reps but Kid Icarus got 2, and Kid Icarus has 3 games and 3 reps. The SSB3DS is a great game and I am positive SSBWii U will be two but I'm just bothered by that and I would hope next console generation the game is created by someone who considered character representation and balance more thoroughly.

"Melee Mewtwo isn't unique, especially now." But hey, at least you'll admit Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere are the same thing.

DLC? Ahem, sig. A healthy amount of pessimism goes a long way.

No SSB developer will ever go for balanced representation. That's not what SSB is about. It's not about fan wants, it's about making an interesting roster.

 

[DeiSakuChris]

I wouldn't buy a Smash Bros game not made by Sakurai.

The roster decisions will be bad without him, if it's made by Nintendo they will focus only on relevant characters / mainstream ones and popular ones.

There wouldn't be anymore surprise characters / obscure/ side ones.

I can guarantee you that if Smash 4 was made by internal Nintendo (Let's say Nintendo EAD) we wouldn't have get Shulk.

 

[GlitchyFireEmblem]

I really respect Sakurai and his hard work. I think it would still go on without him, but some of the "magic" may be missing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

"Stun Gun" is called Paralyzer and works entirely differently from Disable. Like, in every way(first, one holds them in place while the person using Paralyzer cannot do another thing, making them open to being attacked by anything. It's an unsafe move in Doubles or if any course has a hazard. The other does not leave you open for more than a tiny second and is hard to punish if you miss. Lastly, Dizzy and Paralyze are entirely different states in the game. Being paralyzed prevents you from being KO'd, while being dizzy makes you vulnerable to everything. It's beyond obvious they are not alike much at all.) Oh, and fyi? Stun is the same thing as Dizzy. It is a completely different thing from Paralyze. I did forgot ZSS' neutral Special's name at the time. That's my bad. I did not forget that they are beyond different moves with the only thing they have in common is "the opponent cannot move", yet they work extremely differently, so that's not terribly relevant. The down tilt does not, but it's also still not the same. A unique move that is better than a slightly similar unique move doesn't make either stop being unique. The fact one can only hit from the front makes it unique no matter how you slice it. One being better is not relevant at all to their unique applications and design.

Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere are barely variants of the same move. One has beyond entirely differently applications from the other. It's not better necessarily either. Shadow Ball's erratic pattern makes it severely harder to dodge compared to Aura Sphere. Aura Sphere can gain more power. This vastly separates their uses. Not even a contest either. Nobody has anything like Confusion, period. His throws are also pretty much unique. You will never find a sucessor to Mewtwo because it doesn't exist. If you can't just accept that you are entirely wrong that Mewtwo is more unique than a damn clone, then you are frankly blinded by some beyond ridiculous bias or blatantly trolling. Stop making these beyond crappy excuses and just admit you are wrong. And no, I don't care if you report me for "flaming". You clearly need help. Lots of it. You are using beyond asinine reasons to devalue Mewtwo's factual uniqueness because you clearly hate the character so much that you can't even see differences when they're in front of your face.

This isn't rocket science, dude. If they do not work the same, they are different. That's what unique means, being different from something else(the levels of difference will never be relevant to this. As long as it has a single difference, they are not the same move). I mean, really, come on. Even that cannot be denied. Unless you're too clouded by your bias to see facts as they stand. -_- Which... to be frank, it seems you really are too biased to analyze the characters properly. I'm not sure you have really analyzed Mewtwo at all either. Otherwise you could clearly see how three of his specials have never been 100% repeated. When people are constantly telling you why they are still different, maybe it's time to listen.

Mewtwo is an extremely unique character when looking at it from a reasonable logical viewpoint, and not using severe and pretty clearly illogical bias. The second you say a direct clone is more unique than a character who nobody plays as, you aren't using reasonable logic. You're ignoring every completely unique bit while citing barely unique moves. And if you really want to go that route of strict comparisons... Confusion, Disable, and Shadow Ball are unique moves. Electroshock Arm and Silver Bow are unique moves. Dark Pit Staff is not actually unique at all in gameplay. It's pretty much the least unique move in his arsenal outside of his "exactly the same as Pit" attacks. It's just Light Arrow with a different animation. This means Mewtwo has 3 moves that nobody has the exact same move of, and Dark Pit only has two moves that nobody else exactly has. Going by your strict logic and actually paying attention to the differences exactly and not ignoring them for some reason, Mewtwo is still more unique than Dark Pit. Not by much from your standards, but still is. Obviously if we got by the general consensus of what a unique moveset is, then Mewtwo wins without a shadow of a doubt. Either way, he factually wins the unique bit by your strict logic, or without it.

 

[LancerStaff]

"Stun Gun" is called Paralyzer and works entirely differently from Disable. Like, in every way(first, one holds them in place while the person using Paralyzer cannot do another thing, making them open to being attacked by anything. It's an unsafe move in Doubles or if any course has a hazard. The other does not leave you open for more than a tiny second and is hard to punish if you miss. Lastly, Dizzy and Paralyze are entirely different states in the game. Being paralyzed prevents you from being KO'd, while being dizzy makes you vulnerable to everything. It's beyond obvious they are not alike much at all.) Oh, and fyi? Stun is the same thing as Dizzy. It is a completely different thing from Paralyze. I did forgot ZSS' neutral Special's name at the time. That's my bad. I did not forget that they are beyond different moves with the only thing they have in common is "the opponent cannot move", yet they work extremely differently, so that's not terribly relevant. The down tilt does not, but it's also still not the same. A unique move that is better than a slightly similar unique move doesn't make either stop being unique. The fact one can only hit from the front makes it unique no matter how you slice it. One being better is not relevant at all to their unique applications and design.

Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere are barely variants of the same move. One has beyond entirely differently applications from the other. It's not better necessarily either. Shadow Ball's erratic pattern makes it severely harder to dodge compared to Aura Sphere. Aura Sphere can gain more power. This vastly separates their uses. Not even a contest either. Nobody has anything like Confusion, period. His throws are also pretty much unique. You will never find a sucessor to Mewtwo because it doesn't exist. If you can't just accept that you are entirely wrong that Mewtwo is more unique than a damn clone, then you are frankly blinded by some beyond ridiculous bias or blatantly trolling. Stop making these beyond crappy excuses and just admit you are wrong. And no, I don't care if you report me for "flaming". You clearly need help. Lots of it. You are using beyond asinine reasons to devalue Mewtwo's factual uniqueness because you clearly hate the character so much that you can't even see differences when they're in front of your face.

This isn't rocket science, dude. If they do not work the same, they are different. That's what unique means, being different from something else(the levels of difference will never be relevant to this. As long as it has a single difference, they are not the same move). I mean, really, come on. Even that cannot be denied. Unless you're too clouded by your bias to see facts as they stand. -_- Which... to be frank, it seems you really are too biased to analyze the characters properly. I'm not sure you have really analyzed Mewtwo at all either. Otherwise you could clearly see how three of his specials have never been 100% repeated. When people are constantly telling you why they are still different, maybe it's time to listen.

Mewtwo is an extremely unique character when looking at it from a reasonable logical viewpoint, and not using severe and pretty clearly illogical bias. The second you say a direct clone is more unique than a character who nobody plays as, you aren't using reasonable logic. You're ignoring every completely unique bit while citing barely unique moves. And if you really want to go that route of strict comparisons... Confusion, Disable, and Shadow Ball are unique moves. Electroshock Arm and Silver Bow are unique moves. Dark Pit Staff is not actually unique at all in gameplay. It's pretty much the least unique move in his arsenal outside of his "exactly the same as Pit" attacks. It's just Light Arrow with a different animation. This means Mewtwo has 3 moves that nobody has the exact same move of, and Dark Pit only has two moves that nobody else exactly has. Going by your strict logic and actually paying attention to the differences exactly and not ignoring them for some reason, Mewtwo is still more unique than Dark Pit. Not by much from your standards, but still is. Obviously if we got by the general consensus of what a unique moveset is, then Mewtwo wins without a shadow of a doubt. Either way, he factually wins the unique bit by your strict logic, or without it.

I don't care how it works, I care about how it's used. Any normal personal would call the Paralyzer an all-around better disable. Wee, he's dizzy instead of stunned. So gamechanging.

"A unique move that is better than a slightly similar unique move doesn't make either stop being unique." Sure does. Is the Mii Gunner's blaster unique because it's just a nerfed version of Fox's? Nope. There's a mind-boggling number of moves that prevent people from moving. A few slight differences that don't change how people approach the move simply isn't enough.

They're similar to the point where nearly any person will tell you Lucario took Mewtwo's move. They're used the same way, handled the same way, and the result of the move is also the same. Not unique at all.

Now you're claiming that I'm reporting you and hate Mewtwo? No and no. Never reported a single person on this site, and I just don't really care for Mewtwo in SSBM. Perhaps if he gets a decent moveset this time I'll appreciate him as a SSB character.

You act as if I'm the only person who thinks Mewtwo in Melee sucked. Compared to every other character on the SSB4 roster, M Mewtwo offers nothing special. Name a single, character defining move for Mewtwo. Can't, because he doesn't have any. Every character has something besides him. Considering you haven't named whatever move that is, it simply doesn't exist. You could of shut this entire argument down long ago with it, and yet you keep going on like it exists without presenting it. Must not exist.

He's not extremely unique by any definition besides animations. He's entirely pieces of other characters, whereas every other character has something to them. Name one SSB4 character who doesn't, that isn't Mewtwo, and you can end this argument.

Dark Pit has a move that can shut down recoveries like no other. Dark Pit also brings a completely unique counterpick mechanic for Pit players. Mewtwo's three moves have marginal differences that just don't matter. Mewtwo could have the better versions of those moves of his and be 1000 times better off for it. Having an outright weaker version of other character's moves is the laziest gimmick I've ever heard of, and giving him more powerful versions of those moves devalues the original characters, and that's something Sakurai said he wouldn't do.

 

[DrizzyDrew]

we'd probably get second rate characters like...waluigi..."shiverr"

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Welp, not wasting my time on this crap anymore. You're wrong, life moves on. Because nobody can seriously argue and win that a very unique moveset that zero characters have or even close to have a similar moveset to is less unique than a moveset with almost zero differences from another. Clones are less unique than Uniquely Made characters. Not rocket science here. -_-

I get that there are moves that have partially similar properties but are better makes his contributions weaker. If a move does not function exactly the same, you cannot claim they're the same. FYI, if you're still trying to call Paralyze a better Disable, it's not. It's not anywhere like Disable since they do completely different things. If you're aguing ZSS' down tilt is superior to Disable, I agree. But they function differently. "How they're used" is not relevant when it comes to uniqueness. Since they have to be used differently if they functional differently, it already invalidates your argument about their usage. Disable is a very skillful move that you can't throw out into the open without extreme timing. This weakens its overall usage, but it still forces you to use it differently from her Down Tilt. Oh, and fyi? Shadow Ball's wavy nature makes it harder to dodge since actually figuring out what it'll hit is harder than a straight shot and it cannot be as strong as Aura Sphere. They're applied beyond differently. Confusion has never been repeated. In addition, it can be used to pull people throw platforms, making it basically an aerial throw, something nobody else has. Maybe that's the unique move you were looking for. I dunno. It's a property zero character have beyond him, so... well, if that pretty clearly super unique ability isn't going to convince you, then it's very clear you don't want to see uniqueness when it exists and just want to argue endlessly while using insane troll logic.

BTW, Dark Pit could not exist as a playable character slot, and it would not affect the metagame much at all. Mewtwo's exclusion affects the doubles metagame quite a bit, since he's the master of stunning opponents in a hard to stop way(Confusion is severely harder to dodge regardless). He's a support character. Nobody really can act like a support character in a similar way. And yes, Doubles matter. 1 on 1 is not the only metagame. I don't know why you ignored my Doubles point the last time. He brings a specific gameplay style that may be weak, but it works in a way nobody else can bring. And never has. Ice Climbers are definitely not stun-based support characters.

And I'm done. If you cannot accept he's unique, despite being the only character to be cut from melee who wasn't a damn clone and played super differently, that's your problem. He's factually unique. Either deny it despite being true, or accept it. I gave it my best by throwing out completely true information, and you've made tons of severely bad comparisons as well. Seriously, Paralyzer functions completely different from Disable. Why are you even mentioning it beyond "Okay, my bad, that was a different move and usage". The down tilt comparison was good, besides them being used and functioning actually differently overall. I do honestly question why you can't admit you're wrong about any of these things when you know you are. Calling you on it doesn't seem to work, because you're too egotistical to properly admit when you make a mistake. Oh, and lastly, being beyond pigheaded makes you impossible to debate with. It's like talking to a brick wall. Have you noticed how I'm the only one to give you the time of day now? More than one post at max, that is? It's because I respect you enough to at least try to help you understand why what you're saying isn't convincing anyone. however, it's clear you're repeating the same points that don't actually make sense while ignoring logical points entirely. You cannot say something functions and is used the same when they never were. At least not all aspects. You can only use Shadow Ball's charging hitboxes the same as Aura Sphere's. They're different otherwise. it's also clear you do research into Dark Pit. But also very clear you have not done research on these move comparisons, otherwise it's easy to recognize their differences. The thing is, of course you're not going to recognize the differences easily if you don't do research. But refusing to admit they're actually different? What on earth are you hoping to accomplish by stating false information?

Oh, and yes, I'm being a hypocrite by saying I'm done by not acting like I'm done. I admit that. Why wouldn't I? I can at least admit when I make a mistake. Why can't you?

 

[Narth]

Probably not as fun, more repetitive and less imaginative.

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.videogamer.com/wiiu/supe...he_probably_wont_make_another_smash_bros.html

Well, it looks more and more like an eventuality.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

http://www.videogamer.com/wiiu/supe...he_probably_wont_make_another_smash_bros.html

Well, it looks more and more like a eventuality.

"And he can't see his successor delivering the same level of content either"

Which is exactly why him leaving frightens me.

 

[Deleted member]

Him as a supervisor would be the best he could do.

One day or another, he has to find a heir who is worthy enough to receive all his soul and manner of how making games.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Mario, Luigi, Toad, and another Toad are the only playable characters.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Mario, Luigi, Toad, and another Toad are the only playable characters.

Oh God no, it would be a travesty if they think about removing Rosie, Peach, and Bowser for Blue and Yellow Toad.

On the other hand, my other concern with the new guy is that he might not take a look at Smash requests or support to make a roster that could be a HUGE improvement compared to Smash Wii U/3DS.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

What scares me the most about having someone new is how they handle the content for the next Smash game. Sakurai worked through holidays, vacations, and even whole weekends just to help develop all of the trophies, characters, stages, etc in each installment. He had the "This is the last game in the series, so let's go out with a bang!" mindset for each installment, and made sure there was enough content to make the games last for years to come. I feel like the new guy in charge would not be able to live up to the already high standards that Sakurai set for the series. I'm not saying the new guy should kill himself by making the game, but he's got some big shoes to fill in.

Also, there's the fear that the next Smash game winds up getting butchered into DLC packs for the sake of draining people's wallets.

 

[BobVance_]

LOL right because there's NO competent fighting developers out there, none, none whatsoever. Seriously, what an egotistical blowhard.

 

[Strofirko]

LOL right because there's NO competent fighting developers out there, none, none whatsoever. Seriously, what an egotistical blowhard.

What type of fighting game you are saying,because all of the same genre of super smash bros are dead on the moment...