Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

Bwmat

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Did ****ty again, at a weekly this time. Same **** with starting off by losing 3-0 to 'someone I should beat' (arrogance maybe), followed by immediately losing 3-1 to someone I was just 3 stocking in friendlies like an hour earlier (he started ******** about meeting me in loser's r1 as he saw me sit down rolf), I was beating the first guy too for that matter. The negative emotions associated with this are killing my enjoyment of tournaments lately :/

I went and lost 3-0 right after that to someone in a 64 tourney which was running concurrently which I then 3-0'd in losers after mellowing out a bit . The effects even span across games lol

Edit: also yeah, I don't think f-tilting side b on reaction is really feasible unfortunately. Jab and dash-attack are the only things that really are while grounded, at least for me.

... Wait, does Ganon's side-b beat spacies'?
 
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Swagic

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Did ****ty again, at a weekly this time. Same **** with starting off by losing 3-0 to 'someone I should beat' (arrogance maybe), followed by immediately losing 3-1 to someone I was just 3 stocking in friendlies like an hour earlier (he started ******** about meeting me in loser's r1 as he saw me sit down rolf), I was beating the first guy too for that matter. The negative emotions associated with this are killing my enjoyment of tournaments lately :/

I went and lost 3-0 right after that to someone in a 64 tourney which was running concurrently which I then 3-0'd in losers after mellowing out a bit . The effects even span across games lol

Edit: also yeah, I don't think f-tilting side b on reaction is really feasible unfortunately. Jab and dash-attack are the only things that really are while grounded, at least for me.

... Wait, does Ganon's side-b beat spacies'?
My immediate thought- DON'T TRY IT. Miss, and you're dead.

Unless of course you're godlike with your spacing and can get those edgecancels every time.
 

Divinokage

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It sounds just as hard as doing a srk anti air in SF. If you are ready for it then you should be able to get it. Also after years of xp things like that should be 2nd nature.
 

tm

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It's one thing to do it in a situation when it's very likely to happen, but that's not truly reacting when you would just whiff had they done something else. It may be feasible to ftilt falco's with audio tho, it would just require someone really damn fast with a lot of practice. Will report back once I can do it vs fox lol.
 

F. Stein

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Got 9th at a bigger town's weekly ^^ progress lol.

Also, it's very reactable, I'm bad and I can ftilt falco's side b, though I have to have a plan for what to do if he drops down too far. Basically within a given window of his approach to ledge I'm just mentally ready to ftilt, though I'm bad and focus in on it too much and forget where that window ends and I should follow him differently. Point is, I was taught to react to it with audio, and if I'm in a position where I know I can't ftilt him for some reason I just CC the side b.
 

Bwmat

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By 'on reaction' in this sense, I mean where he's still above the ledge, you're thinking he's going to try and either sweetspot side b or up b, and he just side b's right into you instead.

I can cover it with f tilt if I'm ready for it, and he goes at the height I predict
 

tm

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Hit the lab pretty hard today studying grab follow-ups on falcon. I will be good at this MU someday.
 

Bl@ckChris

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well boys i did it again. i'm still ass at the fox ditto so i switch to the dark one and reverse 3-0'd him (lost the first yoshi's cp)

i beat the guy in winners as all fox, but after game one of losers i said screw it, i was getting shined too much. guys name was hoogie if any of you florida heads recognize him. said he was just on his way to school in virginia.

i hate that this character is a crutch for me, since i want to get to the level that's supposed to invalidate him, but damned if he doesn't come in handy sometimes lol
 
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-ACE-

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well boys i did it again. i'm still *** at the fox ditto so i switch to the dark one and reverse 3-0'd him (lost the first yoshi's cp)

i beat the guy in winners as all fox, but after game one of losers i said screw it, i was getting shined too much. guys name was hoogie if any of you florida heads recognize him. said he was just on his way to school in virginia.

i hate that this character is a crutch for me, since i want to get to the level that's supposed to invalidate him, but damned if he doesn't come in handy sometimes lol
It's not that your fox skill is lacking, it's the fact that Ganon > fox.

:denzel:
 

Divinokage

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well boys i did it again. i'm still *** at the fox ditto so i switch to the dark one and reverse 3-0'd him (lost the first yoshi's cp)

i beat the guy in winners as all fox, but after game one of losers i said screw it, i was getting shined too much. guys name was hoogie if any of you florida heads recognize him. said he was just on his way to school in virginia.

i hate that this character is a crutch for me, since i want to get to the level that's supposed to invalidate him, but damned if he doesn't come in handy sometimes lol
Unfortunately it's not possible to break the game that way even though sometimes it looks like the Ganondorf can cheese the Fox pretty hard while getting one CC grab into destruction lol
 

X WaNtEd X

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Yo my pool was released for Shine. I need to beat Dunk to stay in winners. Anyone have experience against the man? I know Bizzarroflame and n0ne do, but neither are very active here unfortunately.
 

tm

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Day 2 of falcon grab follow-up labbing. **** is taking forever. Will post raw data and personal conclusions when I'm done, and I'd like to see what everyone else thinks as well (esp Eikelmann)

Yo my pool was released for Shine. I need to beat Dunk to stay in winners. Anyone have experience against the man? I know Bizzarroflame and n0ne do, but neither are very active here unfortunately.
Never played him. GL tho
 

X WaNtEd X

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Dunk is doable, how often do you see smuckers? Just get that high level falcon practice and book his flight...




...to Gotem City.
Never unfortunately. The last time I had high level Falcon practice regularly was when I lived in Ithaca and played with Gravy a lot. But I'm housing Kage so I might be able to get a little bit of high level Falcon practice in.

In the mean time I'd like to be studying Dunk. But the twitch archive on n0ne's stream containing about three hours of him, Bizz, Dunk, and Dip playing is no longer available. I would have gotten to study a lot of footage of Dunk vs. two styles of Ganon...oh well. I'm just gonna brush up on the matchup as much as I can in the next few days.
 
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RedmanSSBM

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Dunk is really inconsistent. Some days he plays like totally butt and loses to the most random of players, while other days he just suddenly plays really well and actually beats some pretty decent people. He's pretty bread-and-butter from what I've seen him play, and he's not really trying to get that much better at the game so I think he's still playing the same way he has been for years now, but I haven't seen him play recently so what do I know lol.
 

Divinokage

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Never unfortunately. The last time I had high level Falcon practice regularly was when I lived in Ithaca and played with Gravy a lot. But I'm housing Kage so I might be able to get a little bit of high level Falcon practice in.

In the mean time I'd like to be studying Dunk. But the twitch archive on n0ne's stream containing about three hours of him, Bizz, Dunk, and Dip playing is no longer available. I would have gotten to study a lot of footage of Dunk vs. two styles of Ganon...oh well. I'm just gonna brush up on the matchup as much as I can in the next few days.
Oh ya, lots of high level Falcon! =D
 

Linguini

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Went to an Orlando tourney this past weekend. Played decent and ended up getting sheik'd in loser's semis. I woulda played fox but my hands were hurting me quite a bit( cuz i've been working out a lot). Almost beat colbol lol, sd'd the last stock game 5 unfortunately I think I coulda had it otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arQsuXytshI,

Also, since we were talking about the marth matchup recently, this marth barraca is really good against ganon since he plays rockrock all the time and he abuses aexactly what we were talking about in that he's very patient and dd camps to grab---> techase---> edgeguard. He beat me last tourney 2-0 but this time around I adapted. A pretty good example of how to counter this style of marth. Wd oos, jabs, tilts, and instant uair oos work wonders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nosDgxr8VwU

Gotta train up my fox for sheik more....cept my damn hands been sore from going ham in the gym lol I grip wayyy too hard
 

Swagic

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Went to an Orlando tourney this past weekend. Played decent and ended up getting sheik'd in loser's semis. I woulda played fox but my hands were hurting me quite a bit( cuz i've been working out a lot). Almost beat colbol lol, sd'd the last stock game 5 unfortunately I think I coulda had it otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arQsuXytshI,

Also, since we were talking about the marth matchup recently, this marth barraca is really good against ganon since he plays rockrock all the time and he abuses aexactly what we were talking about in that he's very patient and dd camps to grab---> techase---> edgeguard. He beat me last tourney 2-0 but this time around I adapted. A pretty good example of how to counter this style of marth. Wd oos, jabs, tilts, and instant uair oos work wonders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nosDgxr8VwU

Gotta train up my fox for sheik more....cept my damn hands been sore from going ham in the gym lol I grip wayyy too hard
Dude Barraca has taken me out so many times...
 

RedmanSSBM

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Hell yeah more Linguini vids! It really seems like Colbol v Linguini is one of those rivalries that stands the test of time. You guys sure do play each other in tournament a lot. I imagine the total lifetime score between you two is 28 - 4 or something like that hahaha.

I don't recall what sets you beat colbol in L Linguini , but I'd like to imagine that you at least took a few sets off of Colin in the time that you played vs him. Probably some not even recorded as well. I'm pretty sure I've seen some on youtube as well, at least in the early days.
 

PseudoTurtle

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Went to an Orlando tourney this past weekend. Played decent and ended up getting sheik'd in loser's semis. I woulda played fox but my hands were hurting me quite a bit( cuz i've been working out a lot). Almost beat colbol lol, sd'd the last stock game 5 unfortunately I think I coulda had it otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arQsuXytshI,

Also, since we were talking about the marth matchup recently, this marth barraca is really good against ganon since he plays rockrock all the time and he abuses aexactly what we were talking about in that he's very patient and dd camps to grab---> techase---> edgeguard. He beat me last tourney 2-0 but this time around I adapted. A pretty good example of how to counter this style of marth. Wd oos, jabs, tilts, and instant uair oos work wonders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nosDgxr8VwU

Gotta train up my fox for sheik more....cept my damn hands been sore from going ham in the gym lol I grip wayyy too hard
Barraca plays a lot like Vro (Chicago marth). Spaces well, dd grab, pretty lame with an aggressive combo game. I'm really curious as to how you vs. Vro would end up. The things you mentioned above, wd oos --> jab / tilt, instant up air oos work wonders vs vro. He likes to space nair and NOT cross you up, just like barraca was doing. Wd oos is great here.

And that dtilt --> dash away pressure too. Feels like I'm looking at vro's long lost twin lol. I really like to see that wd oos --> jab to break that up.

Good **** vs colbol, a few less tech skill flubs and I think you could've had him. ****ing fox lol, you mess one thing up and you die. Game three though.

Watched your sheik set - **** that ****, but we all know sheik is a ****. As tipman said, fox has heavy advantage over ganon. Sheik vs. ganon is a "GOD STOP THAT BlTCH" matchup lol. Why dreamland counterpick though? Bo5 right, so yoshi's was on the table, no?
 
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PseudoTurtle

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Also, chillindude, m2k, and milkman were in town for the weekend. I played with them a very little bit (the gaming venue near me had a day of friendlies and setups were scarce). M2k is a ****ing trip to play against lol, he really is the robot. Everything he does is extremely calculated and if he touches you, you die, end of story.

He also got 4 phantom hits on me in ~10 matches. WTF DUDE

Played a little bit vs chillin and milkman. Bodied chillin's drunken falco, then he beat me up with fox lol. Both good players. Some of it was streamed.

Cool combo I got on milkman (friendlies). This is why I love dsmash so much.
 
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tm

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Went to an Orlando tourney this past weekend. Played decent and ended up getting sheik'd in loser's semis. I woulda played fox but my hands were hurting me quite a bit( cuz i've been working out a lot). Almost beat colbol lol, sd'd the last stock game 5 unfortunately I think I coulda had it otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arQsuXytshI,

Also, since we were talking about the marth matchup recently, this marth barraca is really good against ganon since he plays rockrock all the time and he abuses aexactly what we were talking about in that he's very patient and dd camps to grab---> techase---> edgeguard. He beat me last tourney 2-0 but this time around I adapted. A pretty good example of how to counter this style of marth. Wd oos, jabs, tilts, and instant uair oos work wonders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nosDgxr8VwU

Gotta train up my fox for sheik more....cept my damn hands been sore from going ham in the gym lol I grip wayyy too hard
awesome! thanks for posting those links.

unrelated, I finished labbing falcon throw %s. Haven't had time to analyze results, so I'll post everything when I have.
 

Linguini

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Hell yeah more Linguini vids! It really seems like Colbol v Linguini is one of those rivalries that stands the test of time. You guys sure do play each other in tournament a lot. I imagine the total lifetime score between you two is 28 - 4 or something like that hahaha.

I don't recall what sets you beat colbol in L Linguini , but I'd like to imagine that you at least took a few sets off of Colin in the time that you played vs him. Probably some not even recorded as well. I'm pretty sure I've seen some on youtube as well, at least in the early days.
LOL that's actually pretty close although I think it's something more like 15-3. We always have good matches even though the end result looks quite skewed. Love colin, he's one of my good friends...easiest player to root for in the whole smash community. Such a stand up cat. We're teaming I think for the smash house invitational which is kinda like a summit thing next month for the south region. We used to be the best team in the south undisputedly back in 2011-2012 and we got beast chemistry so i'm pretty hype. Here's a link for that event. Should be toight: http://polarity.gg/thesmashhouse/

Barraca plays a lot like Vro (Chicago marth). Spaces well, dd grab, pretty lame with an aggressive combo game. I'm really curious as to how you vs. Vro would end up. The things you mentioned above, wd oos --> jab / tilt, instant up air oos work wonders vs vro. He likes to space nair and NOT cross you up, just like barraca was doing. Wd oos is great here.

And that dtilt --> dash away pressure too. Feels like I'm looking at vro's long lost twin lol. I really like to see that wd oos --> jab to break that up.

Good **** vs colbol, a few less tech skill flubs and I think you could've had him. ****ing fox lol, you mess one thing up and you die. Game three though.

Watched your sheik set - **** that ****, but we all know sheik is a ****. As tipman said, fox has heavy advantage over ganon. Sheik vs. ganon is a "GOD STOP THAT BlTCH" matchup lol. Why dreamland counterpick though? Bo5 right, so yoshi's was on the table, no?
Pretty sure I could take most marths down. Especially in a bo5 when I have time to adapt. Yeah, def was flubbing hard techwise vs colin lol, we both were tho so no johns.

Yeah it's kind of ridiculous; the sheik matchup that is lmao. Brokenyew is pretty good but no offense i'm a much better player. AND he doesn't even know the matchup that well and I still lost, lol never again. I'd rather go fox and lose knowing it was my fault rather than lose to the matchup itself.
 
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Bwmat

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I'd rather lose because my opponent was good, rather than because I ****ing killed myself again, or missed a Waveland and mid air dodge, or fail to fall through the platform and fsmash for the umpteenth time, or go full ****** when they're recovering and miss edge guard after free edge guard.

But alas, seems like that wasn't meant to be

Holy **** this game makes me mad
 
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F. Stein

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Went to a weekly tonight, like 40 entrants. Climbed up to 13 and beat the #8 on their PR. Did pretty well actually and met a shiek that was brand new to the matchup... I told him what to do after we were done lol. What exactly are we supposed to do when Falco Dairs us? Am I supposed to slam the stick a certain direction in orientation to him or waht? I feel like I'm better than the Falco's i'm losing to but I don't know what to do exactly. So... what's my course of action after getting hit with Dair or shine?
 

-ACE-

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Went to a weekly tonight, like 40 entrants. Climbed up to 13 and beat the #8 on their PR. Did pretty well actually and met a shiek that was brand new to the matchup... I told him what to do after we were done lol. What exactly are we supposed to do when Falco Dairs us? Am I supposed to slam the stick a certain direction in orientation to him or waht? I feel like I'm better than the Falco's i'm losing to but I don't know what to do exactly. So... what's my course of action after getting hit with Dair or shine?
Good **** taking down a PR'd player! 20GT

Against Falco the micro-spacing is super important. You want to CC, ASDI, SDI, or shield + Shield DI depending on the situation. Everyone preaches that overuse of shield is bad, and that's absolutely correct, but vs Falco it's a great last resort to have. What's he going to do, shine grab you? Then what? Lol. If he's definitely going to land a dair and you can't shield, if the spacing is right you can SDI out of his shine range. Worth a try. But be ready to SDI the shine also.
 
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PseudoTurtle

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Not ganon related, but I've been going apartment hunting in the city. I saw one that I like and I'm considering leasing it. The street it's on is called:

Waveland avenue. ****ing waveland LOL.

Of course a ganon main would live on ****ing Waveland avenue. Not that I've signed the lease yet of course, but damn.
 
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Bwmat

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It's a sign

Edit: phone corrected to "is a sign", and then failed to post because of the 10 char limit. That luck
 
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ForTheLulz

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Went to a weekly tonight, like 40 entrants. Climbed up to 13 and beat the #8 on their PR. Did pretty well actually and met a shiek that was brand new to the matchup... I told him what to do after we were done lol. What exactly are we supposed to do when Falco Dairs us? Am I supposed to slam the stick a certain direction in orientation to him or waht? I feel like I'm better than the Falco's i'm losing to but I don't know what to do exactly. So... what's my course of action after getting hit with Dair or shine?
Not many people know this, but if you jump into Falco's dair before knockdown percentage, you should be actionable before falco and you can get a free jab

I could be completely mistaken off something someone said on skype :rotfl:

Of course, in the long run falco would adapt (approach with nair and shine and stuff) and then ACE's general advice is better than mine
 

-ACE-

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Not many people know this, but if you jump into Falco's dair before knockdown percentage, you should be actionable before falco and you can get a free jab
Yeah that's cool, it's almost like getting hit by fox's shine while airborne, you can grab his waveshine guaranteed.
 
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