-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
LOL missed this earlier. I actually do that **** all the time. Like, regardless of percent. Being up 2 to 1 is better than 3 to 2 or 4 to 3.
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
Divinokage
Smash Legend
He could've just downaired him before doing reverse uair, it's guaranteed death without you dying. >_< If it got meteor canceled, you can rejump grab the edge into Eikeldrop. I'd reverse the move choice here.
What Qlex did would be amazing if he did it on Fox last stock.
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X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
I think he also could have just grabbed ledge into eikeldrop or the bair version and gotten away with the kill.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Dave, I mean theoretically I'll do it same stock if I have equal or higher %, or basically if I'm up a stock, unless I'm at, like, 0% and they're over 100% on yoshi's or something.
Yea dude hindawg is ****ing hilarious lol, he's a funny ass troll. Did you ever hear any of his commentary from Rubicons and things like that? Legitimately had me cracking up for hours. Chat had no idea what to think.
Kage, you're completely right. I didn't even think of that lmao. That would definitely be the correct sequence of moves in this scenario, but the point I was trying to make is that ganons should consider suicide KO's more, especially against fox.
Yea dude hindawg is ****ing hilarious lol, he's a funny ass troll. Did you ever hear any of his commentary from Rubicons and things like that? Legitimately had me cracking up for hours. Chat had no idea what to think.
Kage, you're completely right. I didn't even think of that lmao. That would definitely be the correct sequence of moves in this scenario, but the point I was trying to make is that ganons should consider suicide KO's more, especially against fox.
Glennwood
Smash Cadet
I've got a tech skill question. After sitting down in the lab for hours and improving my tech a lot more I still cannot for the life of me get ledge dashing any wheres near consistent. I almost always just air dodge into the ledge and when I do get enough height I just land on the edge of the ledge getting no dash. Am I doing something wrong or am I just bad and need to sit down. My inputs would be I hold away, then I've been either holding towards and pressing Y or holding toward diagonally up, then attempting the air dodge. Only stage I can get it to work on somewhat is Yoshi's due to the slope. Most of me hopes I'm just missing something but I honestly just think it's just me being bad right now.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Probably not jumping frame perfect. My jump timing is so tight that when I mess up I usually tournament winner. A lot of people use away but I can't. I use down, which makes the jump timing more crucial but I've had it down for years. Using down also allows you to NIL a frame sooner of a ledgehop if you allow a frame or 2 to pass before you jump (not sure but I think by 3 frames you've fallen too far from the fastfall).
Glennwood
Smash Cadet
That's what I figured. So I want to jump as soon as I let go of ledge? I attempt to but it wouldn't shock me if I'm off. I saw some people use a method with the C stick but I feels so unnatural to me. Like I thought, I just need to keep doing it more till I can do it on command. Also is there any good way to practice ledge tech, sdi so I don't get muckled by marth's who only use fsmash to edge guard?
Diosama
Stand User
I'll use this image to explain, assume you're on the right ledge
As you can see, you don't need to tilt the stick back or all the way down. You want to tilt it down slowly, the same kind of tempo as if you wanted to uptilt without jumping, then quickly jump and perform the rest of the quarter circle motion.
Another thing that helps is thinking of "initiating" the dash. See yourself at the ledge and tell yourself as you drop "ledgedash" or "NIL" if you wanna do other stuff. I like to do this with stalling too. I tell myself "stall" any number of times and then "ledgedash" when I wanna do it.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
True but I think you want to ff to NIL asap
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Also a lot of times you have an opening to ledgedash immediately. As in, read that you'll grab ledge and fp ledgedash. Lots of people are ready for you to stall 2-4 times then ledgedash. But of course you can ledgehop or stall more.
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The important thing to remember with all of Ganon's ledge tech is that the ECB (environmental collision box, what actually determines what you are "touching") is a diamond shape. When Ganon double jumps, it contracts a lot. When you airdodge, it instantly snaps to its shape during the airdodge, which frequently causes it to collide with a platform below you, leading you to waveland. During a fp ledgedash, you are doublejumping until the bottom point of the ECB is above the stage and airdodging on that frame. Airdodging before then results in the point extending down beside the stage and you being pushed away, and waiting too long causes you to NIL onstage.
This is the mechanical reason why you can't airdodge sideways for a late waveland the way you can with diagonal airdodges; you are either above a platform and snap to it instantly, or you are next to one and your ECB collides with it (ledge) or the bottom point passes beneath it (platform).
For reference, here is the dj ECB and the first frame airdodge ECB on top of each other. The distance between their bottom points is equal to the height above a platform you can be while airdodging, and that distance divided by Ganon's ff speed is the number of frames you have to press l/r for the perfect wl out of a ff dj. The same image for Ganon's normal sh/fh and backwards sh/fh demonstrate pretty well how much more difficult those are to perfect wl out of.
For reference, debug displays the current ECB as a yellow diamond, the previous frame ECB as orange. The white outline diamond is the "predicted" ECB, based on extrapolation from the previous frames, ignoring collision. I added the lines showing the past frame ECB behind the current ECB; the black line shows the distance between the lower points.
Also, I'm no Kadano; these are edited in MS Paint and could probably be a lot better/come with numbers instead of vague low res images.
This is the mechanical reason why you can't airdodge sideways for a late waveland the way you can with diagonal airdodges; you are either above a platform and snap to it instantly, or you are next to one and your ECB collides with it (ledge) or the bottom point passes beneath it (platform).
For reference, here is the dj ECB and the first frame airdodge ECB on top of each other. The distance between their bottom points is equal to the height above a platform you can be while airdodging, and that distance divided by Ganon's ff speed is the number of frames you have to press l/r for the perfect wl out of a ff dj. The same image for Ganon's normal sh/fh and backwards sh/fh demonstrate pretty well how much more difficult those are to perfect wl out of.
For reference, debug displays the current ECB as a yellow diamond, the previous frame ECB as orange. The white outline diamond is the "predicted" ECB, based on extrapolation from the previous frames, ignoring collision. I added the lines showing the past frame ECB behind the current ECB; the black line shows the distance between the lower points.
Also, I'm no Kadano; these are edited in MS Paint and could probably be a lot better/come with numbers instead of vague low res images.
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PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Fast flick away, then toward stage, jump with x/y asap, Waveland.
If you're air dodging, you're too fast (or wayyyy too slow). If you shield, you're too slow. Practice with ledge hops first and then wavelands.
That's what I do, seems to work alright for me. Some of those diagrams and fancy words just confuse me lol
If you're air dodging, you're too fast (or wayyyy too slow). If you shield, you're too slow. Practice with ledge hops first and then wavelands.
That's what I do, seems to work alright for me. Some of those diagrams and fancy words just confuse me lol
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Glennwood
Smash Cadet
Okay, I see. I need on work on finding the perfect middle, cause I'm air dodging cause I do it too soon, and when I do get high enough to land on stage I am shielding. All the info I got helped out but I figured it was my timing that was off. TO THE LAB!
Divinokage
Smash Legend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__zddfHs62I The return of Vwins. His Ganon is legit in dittos wtf. And as you can see i dont only solo Ganon anymore.
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
LOL kage he's free compared to you, you just slipped up a couple times.
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
Dude SICK beard Vwins!
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Lol ya I was surprised too. That beard is sick.
Ya in the 2nd GF set I got ****ed. It's really hard to be 100% technical and not fall into patterns. I think I could've played a little more defensive and not go in when I was in range to do so, I have to stop shielding when im too close also. Maybe a little more tomahawks too.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Kage I wish you were coming to this tourney, I wanted to play you so bad at evo, but setups were more rare than good rappers. Looks like I can make tgl, can't wait to play n0ne. I hope he'll play me with falcon too even tho he'll win.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Well I cant go to every tourney yet unfortunately, I need to probably stream a lot more in order to live more comfortably and go to more events. Though, I did manage a deal with a sponsor so that'll also help to go to more tournaments. I'd love to actually play you for a while.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Careful Kage; he beat one of the best Ganon's in SFL not too long ago...
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Lol, lost to n0ne 3-1 but neither of us were warmed up, both had dumb suicides. Gonna play more later. He's ****ing fast tho for not being warm, LOL. Matches were close except dreamland he got me good (2 stock but we both SD'd). Gotta get my revenge!
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I need to find a stream link. I missed teams and immediately went to the bar LOL. Ed said he could smell the booze lmao. Get hype for linguini/n0ne teaming, as well as spider_sense and the author (solid Falco in singles). Gravy, Colbol, Blea here too.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Just cg'd a fox 45-130 then wizkick and he DI'd the wf poorly. Not gonna lie, it felt good. LOL
:bar:
Edit: gahtzu is here!
:bar:
Edit: gahtzu is here!
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
twitch.tv/trailgamingleague
Blea, Colbol, n0ne, gravy, gahtzu, porkchops, linguini, spider_sense, tipman, etcccccc
Blea, Colbol, n0ne, gravy, gahtzu, porkchops, linguini, spider_sense, tipman, etcccccc
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
It felt good because you did it on prediction
Good ****. That many 50/50s in a row is hard
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Did any of you ganons get on stream? Gotta watch that vod
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
LOL **** you
XLAX_OVERDOSAGE
Smash Apprentice
It's sick to see Vwins back in action again. Do you know if he intends to become more active/attend more out-of-region events?
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Highly doubt it, he plays for fun probably.
Diosama
Stand User
I asked him and he said he doesn't really know. I then told him we took away his #1 PR spot and he laughed.
XLAX_OVERDOSAGE
Smash Apprentice
He will always be #1 on the montreal PR in our hearts
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Any Ganon mains going to EVO? I won't be able to make it this year. I really wanted to, but life johns. lol We're going to have a smashfest at VS with the stream running. We'll be drinking beers (in honor of Ace's departure from FL) and 420blazekins.
Diosama
Stand User
Kage and n0ne are going
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Lol try going with 6-7 tall boyz to see what ace dealt with during tournaments. Miss you guys but the change of scenery is good. I'll be back
XLAX_OVERDOSAGE
Smash Apprentice
Is it true that EVO doesn't have a large amount of friendly setups? Someone told me that and that's one of the main reasons I'm not interested in going. On the flipside, TBH6 will have 24/7 friendly stations and I'm down for that.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
LOL Nate Diaz over here.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
It blows. Like horribly
Potet
Smash Rookie
Hey guys I have a quick question about perfect wavelands.
I see a lot of ganons do quick double jumps and FF before wavelanding, but I usually do it out of a normal short hop.
I know that doing the DJ FF wavelands make the timing slightly easier, but do they go furthur? I'm watching some videos of other ganons and it looks like their WLs are faster than mine.
Is it just preference? or is there some other advantage DJ FF WLs have over SH WLs?
I see a lot of ganons do quick double jumps and FF before wavelanding, but I usually do it out of a normal short hop.
I know that doing the DJ FF wavelands make the timing slightly easier, but do they go furthur? I'm watching some videos of other ganons and it looks like their WLs are faster than mine.
Is it just preference? or is there some other advantage DJ FF WLs have over SH WLs?
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Only thing that matters is the angle of the airdodge, ganon can airdodge completely vertically and still waveland which makes them so good.