Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Bwmat]

Marth's dtilt is so hard to get around, especially with ganon. I never really know what to do when they're spamming it.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

I know I do. He'll be snacking on my Ganon forward aerial quite soon. It'll splatter his brain, leave scattered remains of matter and stains, that'll explain how he was battered and slain.

I'm guessing you told Ace spider_sense

 

[F. Stein]

I have a puff at my school who is starting to study the book of hungrybox hardcore. So many bairs. How does the king of evil get around Bairs and get something solid going? Am I looking for pure trades? Staying grounded? I'm a bit confused until I land a hit.

 

[Swagic]

Trades are pretty much always a good thing for Ganon. They all have pretty good knockback and do decent damage. Unfortunately, the hitbox on Puff's bair is the length of Puff with her leg out. Except it starts from her leg (It's HUGE). It's biggest weakness is that it's very horizontal and barely reaches above or below her. Combine that with advice from people who have fought good Puffs.

Also, I move that we name it "suiside-B." Or we can just call it "Control stick Johns." Take your pick.

 

[-ACE-]

I will dedicate my 10,000th post to this one thing.

side-b vs marth

F*cking Gerudo Dragon Son

Use it when you predict his aerial approach when you're close to him. When you predict a nair, you have to be close in for it to work. It's a read, but with huge reward (death combo).

Use it off reaction too. If you're keeping the normal amount of good space you should vs marth, it's perfect for responding to Marth's sh early fair. React with it. Out of dash dance is fine (this baits early sh fairs).

Either way, you've hit him in mid-air, so he can kiss his precious CC goodbye, as well as his ****ing stock.

I really wanted to play the moon when he was here. This WRECKS Marth, and hardly any marths know what to do against it. With anything else, use it wisely. Slowly mess with side-b until you know when to use it safely. It's insanely good once you know how to use it.

Oh, and...

 

[Coastward]

ACE boutta do it

I'll be taking a melee break to finish school, but I'll be on the grind before GOML. Coastward you never replied to my doubles proposal, you down?

probably not entering doubles

<----- upholding the tradition of confusing people with my avatar. Thanks, Coastward I owe you one

LMAOOOOOO

 

[-ACE-]

Already reported your new avatar Joe, clearly more porn related than Bizzarro's sponsorship.

 

[tm]

<----- upholding the tradition of confusing people with my avatar. Thanks, Coastward I owe you one

oh wow
definitely thought the last couple posts were coastward

I will dedicate my 10,000th post to this one thing.

side-b vs marth

F*cking Gerudo Dragon Son

Use it when you predict his aerial approach when you're close to him. When you predict a nair, you have to be close in for it to work. It's a read, but with huge reward (death combo).

Use it off reaction too. If you're keeping the normal amount of good space you should vs marth, it's perfect for responding to Marth's sh early fair. React with it. Out of dash dance is fine (this baits early sh fairs).

Either way, you've hit him in mid-air, so he can kiss his precious CC goodbye, as well as his ****ing stock.

I really wanted to play the moon when he was here. This WRECKS Marth, and hardly any marths know what to do against it. With anything else, use it wisely. Slowly mess with side-b until you know when to use it safely. It's insanely good once you know how to use it.

Oh, and...

holy... forgot we can make posts look obnoxious. sick

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

coast the only reason i gave you **** was because you made it sound as if you were going to be playing primarily fox. i only use falco for 3 matchups. big difference.

also i forgot how to play against peach. idk what to do with myself anymore.

 

[Coastward]

just play fox.

 

[-ACE-]

just play fox.

Re

****ing

Ported.

 

[tm]

coast the only reason i gave you **** was because you made it sound as if you were going to be playing primarily fox. i only use falco for 3 matchups. big difference.

also i forgot how to play against peach. idk what to do with myself anymore.

should have written that guide back when I asked you to. Now we're all clueless here, smh

 

[tm]

Made a quick excel sheet to gauge follow-up viability after dthrow based on percent.

The rundown:
Change weight in the corner depending on the target character (ex: 1.00 for mario / luigi / doc, 0.75 for fox, 0.87 for marth, etc)
Throw stuff is currently set to ganondorfs dthrow, but you can change it to anyone else's if you want
Then a ton of numbers with colors are listed.
Black circle = no dice, they can DJ out (assuming the jump avoids the hit, or shine out, or whatever)
Red circle = 1 frame window to hit (requires frame perfection, no turnaround)
Yellow circle = 2 frame window OR 1 frame window + turnaround
Green circle = 2+ frame window regardless of turnaround

This is assuming that you are in the lower numbered port compared to your victim. If this is the other way around, then add 1 frame to every window (I like to be prepared for the worst case scenario)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/n38j42ggmi9dnnb/dthrow_followups.xlsx

edit: no idea if this works in any non excel program

also note that this doesn't necessarily mean you can REACH them and hit them. Just if you can get the hitbox out safely
but it still shows the frame windows, so you can use that too see how long you can spend jumping towards them and then aerial (against samus, for example)

 

[-ACE-]

also i forgot how to play against peach. idk what to do with myself anymore.

Neutral game decisions and reactions. Re-examine. The only way out is profit for someone at your level. Sometimes you have to throw out the hitbox immediately, sometimes you have to flat out wd away or dash away. Take a closer look at certain situations and do what you know is right.

tl;dr bair wrecks peach.

 

[-ACE-]

I remember when playing Ganon wasn't a math equation LOL

https://youtu.be/-Mw_VY7O0JQ?t=14s

 

[F. Stein]

Ganon has some gnarly turnip combos too, lol.

 

[tm]

I remember when playing Ganon wasn't a math equation LOL

https://youtu.be/-Mw_VY7O0JQ?t=14s

whatever duuuuuude, you probably remember when ganon wasn't a$$ too lol
just doing what I can to learn as fast as possible with the least amount of effort

 

[-ACE-]

whatever duuuuuude, you probably remember when ganon wasn't a$$ too lol
just doing what I can to learn as fast as possible with the least amount of effort

Yo, you like my links.

And I'm not talking about the green cub scouts with toy swords.

 

[Divinokage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kunBMwk3lrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOETb0sBtVo

Last 2 sets from the Texas Tournament I went to. Mojo is really good! I was using a bit of Linguini strats in that set where you stomp to call out full hops or DJs in neutral lol. Though that usually happens when they throw out a laggy move then you bait their movement afterwards.

 

[-ACE-]

Mojo is the homie too. Always good to see him at nationals

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Good sets. You've really improved your edge guarding too

 

[Swagic]

Just so everyone is aware, SWFL finally has a Melee recording setup. Which means I have may actually have footage of some modern RockCrock play.

 

[-ACE-]

Just so everyone is aware, SWFL finally has a Melee recording setup. Which means I have may actually have footage of some modern RockCrock play.

This is great news.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

tm That sheet would be especially useful for Samus and the other fmts. I think it's really easy to mess up dthrow followups against those characters unless you know what you're doing

 

[Divinokage]

Good sets. You've really improved your edge guarding too

After losing to Camilo in the way i did i had to improve it lol. I also got a new controller so i get much less possible flubs. I can actually pivot very well with it. Just need shield dropping down now.

 

[-ACE-]

After losing to Camilo in the way i did i had to improve it lol. I also got a new controller so i get much less possible flubs. I can actually pivot very well with it. Just need shield dropping down now.

What kind of controller did you get? It's crazy how many people don't realize their controller can be holding them back. Me included. When you find the perfect one that caters to your natural tendencies, it's awesome.

You'll get shield dropping, just grind it. Get that perfect speed down from notch to notch. It takes finesse but after a while, second nature.

 

[tm]

Reverse ledge dash frame data

1st number = jump x frames after letting go of ledge
2nd number = frame window for the RLD

this assumes that you hold in as soon as you double jump, and that you hold away at the same time that you airdodge.
For the ones with the 1 frame waveland windows, you can afford to hold away 1 frame sooner than you press the trigger button, but no sooner. For the rest, you can hold away 3 or more frames sooner. You can also generally get away with double jumping 1, 2, or more frames before you hold in on the way up, so the joystick shouldn't be causing too many problems unless you're holding away while starting the double jump or not holding away when you press L or R.

Frame window for double jump / frame window for waveland:
1 / 2
2 / 2
3 / 2
4 / 1
5 / 1
6 / 1
7 / 1
8+ / 0

If you press DOWN to let go from ledge and hold it for MORE THAN ONE FRAME (very short, and thus you fastfall)
then the windows change:
1 / 2
2 / 1
3+ / 0

Therefore I highly recommend doing RLD with joystick away to let go of ledge (rather than down). If you use down you are requiring yourself to perform a 1-frame input (either move joystick out of fastfall range in 1 frame, or press L or R on 1 specific frame) and significantly cutting your frame windows down. For you that don't know, there is always a small (but existant) random chance that 1 frame inputs will fail. If you're a nerd and want to find out why, or if you don't believe me, you can watch here or read here.

When practicing RLDs, you should therefore aim to let go with away and jump 2 frames after you let go of ledge. This way you can be 1 frame early or 1 frame late on the jump and still have a 2 frame window to waveland. No random chance to mess up.

You can also drop with c-stick down or away. Personally I don't recommend this because if you nudge the c-stick slightly after dropping from ledge, you will perform an aerial (and probably die)

 

[-ACE-]

Do you also practice using down for when you want to ledgehop NIL?

 

[tm]

Do you also practice using down for when you want to ledgehop NIL?

Not sure what you're asking.
If there's a window to ledgedash, then you'd NIL if you don't press L or R. So you can fall for 1-7 frames and NIL if you press away to let go, but only 1 or 2 frames if you press (and hold for at least 1 more frame) down to let go.

I used to use down and roll in (hadouken method) but switched to away (dash dance method) a few months or so ago. Now I'm pleased that I did, and my increase in consistency makes a lot of sense

 

[-ACE-]

I mean for INV. Don't you land sooner when the peak of your dj barely makes it onstage? Or no?

Edit: I ask because when I jump fp after drop, I'm waiting for Ganon's dj animation to end while he's onstage, whereas when I use down to drop he seems to truly NIL, or at least NIL sooner. I seem to jab/grab noticeably sooner.

BTW, you guys that use c-stick for away are technical GODS if you use X to jump. Lol so hard to think about. Tipman recommended c-away to drop around 6 years ago, I just can't do it. I always use down, and landed the pseudo dash again today. Gotta stick with what works.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I used to use down until I discovered what tms talking about. The only thing I can't do is the pseudodash. One day...

 

[-ACE-]

I used to use down until I discovered what tms talking about. The only thing I can't do is the pseudodash. One day...

At first I thought his method was better in every way but I don't know if it will NIL as fast as using down.... No idea tbh.

And I'm sure most people that use c-away use up to jump, but it's just too awkward for me I suck lol.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

control stick x master race

 

[tm]

I mean for INV. Don't you land sooner when the peak of your dj barely makes it onstage? Or no?

Edit: I ask because when I jump fp after drop, I'm waiting for Ganon's dj animation to end while he's onstage, whereas when I use down to drop he seems to truly NIL, or at least NIL sooner. I seem to jab/grab noticeably sooner.

BTW, you guys that use c-stick for away are technical GODS if you use X to jump. Lol so hard to think about. Tipman recommended c-away to drop around 6 years ago, I just can't do it. I always use down, and landed the pseudo dash again today. Gotta stick with what works.

OH. Good question. I'll test that rn...

Frame to jump on / NIL frame (starting from letting go of the ledge):
no fastfall:
1 / 20
2 / 21
3 / 22
4 / 22
5 / 23
6 / 23
7 / 24

fastfall:
1 / 20
2 / 19

So -ACE- yeah fastfall is faster but it's a 1 frame window. If you are early it's the same, and if you are late you'll regrab ledge. That might actually be a good thing though

 

[-ACE-]

tm word. Thanks

Good to know since ledgehop grab must be fp for INV

 

[ForTheLulz]

tm , how do you feel fighting Zgetto this weekend at Pound? Will you make it out of pools?

 

[tm]

Should be fun. Idk if he knows the matchup, but I couldn't find him vs any ganon on youtube. Regardless, I can win if I play well, so I'm looking forward to it.

I should make it out regardless unless I'm playing terribly or there are 2 strong players in that pool that I haven't heard of.

 

[spider_sense]

I'm guessing you told Ace spider_sense

He's just looking out for phonies, the kind of kid that brings caprisuns with balony. He said he'd scatter your brains, I'm just gonna coast out and hide the remains.

 

[-ACE-]

Should be fun. Idk if he knows the matchup, but I couldn't find him vs any ganon on youtube. Regardless, I can win if I play well, so I'm looking forward to it.

I should make it out regardless unless I'm playing terribly or there are 2 strong players in that pool that I haven't heard of.

You got this. Only Ganon I know of in Europe is qlex. He has to be easier than kjh in that mu.

 

[Divinokage]

What kind of controller did you get? It's crazy how many people don't realize their controller can be holding them back. Me included. When you find the perfect one that caters to your natural tendencies, it's awesome.

You'll get shield dropping, just grind it. Get that perfect speed down from notch to notch. It takes finesse but after a while, second nature.

In North Dakota I was given a new Black one. That was the controller I had when I started playing the game. Kage of old will return!