PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Yup. Grab ledge, reactively Waveland in, grab, bair / fair, reset situation until dead.
Her recovery is not good lol.
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
Her recovery is not good lol.
Swagic
Smash Journeyman
Let's just take a second to appreciate that there are now 24,600 posts in this thread. Yeah, I don't think we're going to be able to call this an easy guide anymore.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
You still think that after facing M2k 2-3 times? rofl.
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X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
If she recovers from below, you can cover all her options by grabbing ledge. If she recovers from above, she has a number of mixups. Depending how close she is to the stage, what stage it is, and how high she is, she can land far enough away so that you can't catch up to her with ledge dash in time to punish her lag. This happens when she recovers downwards at a diagonal obtuse angle and lands directly on the stage, so she's in less lag than if she were to reappear above the stage and have to fall to it. If you ledge dash preemptively to catch this, she could potentially sweet spot, land behind you or at any number of locations (think of it like a bunch of angles on a plane), land on a platform, or even edge cancel off a platform. Most of the time, you're better off covering the ledge and then just maintaining control instead of trying to cover every option. She's so bad in the neutral that it doesn't matter. Point is, her recovery can be good if you know what you're doing.
Diosama
Stand User
I think there's too large of skill a discrepancy between the two, matchups are based off players of equal skill after all.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Oh and back when I used to practice Zelda tech, I found that there were positions offstage where you could either ledge cancel the up-b or sweet spot. Can't do it anymore, but it's some neat stuff.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
He's rusty af, and at the time he made that assessment Emilio was so ahead of his time I can't blame him lol. And the sheik metagame was **** compared to now.
Should I dig up the post where you claimed Ganon vs falcon and Ganon vs sheik are 50/50? Lol. Opinions change.
Coastward
Smash Lord
since there seems to be a surge of new ganon players, videos, etc, i think it's time i made another combo video. i've been itching to make one again and this song i've had stuck in my head for the past few days feels so right.
so if you can help me and send me clips you think are good just reply to this or message me on smashboards or on twitter/facebook. i feel like i can do better than my last one.
so if you can help me and send me clips you think are good just reply to this or message me on smashboards or on twitter/facebook. i feel like i can do better than my last one.
Swagic
Smash Journeyman
Alright guys, I have my first "real" tournament in a while tomorrow. Hopefully I'll get some stuff recorded. I can guarantee some new RockCrock footage, too.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Oh ****, Tampa?
Swagic
Smash Journeyman
SUPPOSEDLY he'll be at the Ft. Myers monthly tomorrow, and SUPPOSEDLY there will be at least one recording setup, with a possibility of streaming. First time in a new venue, so we're not certain on the internet situation, but there will definitely be recording. He apparently hasn't lost one of these since back when Shiz was living in Naples, so I'm fully expecting him to make it to WF and GF, which will definitely be recorded, provided the guy with the setup comes.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Lol tempting.
Swagic
Smash Journeyman
It's free as ****. RockCrock is MILES above everyone else in skill level, except for maybe the rest of the PR (which is only a top 5)
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Dennis is a better smasher overall than me too, considering consistency. But I'd bet on myself in dittos. Played his DK before, that would definitely be harder.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
PS thinking about never banning FD vs Fox again.
Marth.
The thought is to ban DL64 against campy foxes, which would bait the FD pick.
This might be because my grab punishes are one of the strongest pieces of my game. OCCASIONALLY (like one 0-death per game), I can techchase like wizzy w/falcon, and cg like m2k with Marth, and can chaingrab fox hard with doc. I can just practice Marth DD and chaingrab and be a much bigger threat to a top level fox on that stage than any Ganon could be.
Marth.
The thought is to ban DL64 against campy foxes, which would bait the FD pick.
This might be because my grab punishes are one of the strongest pieces of my game. OCCASIONALLY (like one 0-death per game), I can techchase like wizzy w/falcon, and cg like m2k with Marth, and can chaingrab fox hard with doc. I can just practice Marth DD and chaingrab and be a much bigger threat to a top level fox on that stage than any Ganon could be.
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
That would be admitting DK is a losing mu. I don't think it's true, but close.
Swagic
Smash Journeyman
Not necessarily. It's just more than a one-hit-either-way matchup. It's harder because it requires more than just uair beating out everything he throws at you. I like the DK matchup, personally.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
If a matchup is harder than a ditto, how is it not worse than 50/50????
Swagic
Smash Journeyman
They're just very different. The Ganon ditto is 50-50 because it's a ditto, but it's easier than a lot of 50-50 mus because it's a relatively simple rock-paper-scissors. Other 50-50s are similar in structure, but have many more moving parts.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
DK matchup isn't too complicated, you just have to respect certain things (like bair, uair, dd grab dtilt/ftilt, mash out fast, etc), and know he's very capable of gimping Ganon. You can't let up at all, but Ganon definitely wins.
He doesn't have an answer for good use of bair really. Switching between AC bair and bair into dj options frustrates him. And you can cg him, and any edgeguard is stomp city.
He doesn't have an answer for good use of bair really. Switching between AC bair and bair into dj options frustrates him. And you can cg him, and any edgeguard is stomp city.
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Swagic
Smash Journeyman
*if you don't let him recover high. He gets invulnerability on up-b startup in the air and it starts MUCH faster...
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I'll wizkick spike that ****.
Swagic
Smash Journeyman
Now THAT is fun. It's turning into my preferred edgeguard. Which might be a problem...
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
More vods yo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMPIWCoknvw
This is the sheik i lost to in pools. Definitely could have one, but I flub way too much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v06eWg0S0bk
This is the fox/marth I beat that formerly beat me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMPIWCoknvw
This is the sheik i lost to in pools. Definitely could have one, but I flub way too much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v06eWg0S0bk
This is the fox/marth I beat that formerly beat me.
Linguini
Smash Master
Actually....not too much has changed lol. Maybe 65-35 in sheik's favor but that's only a 5% shift lol. Last time I played m2k I hadn't played against a sheik in years so it wasn't exactly the best representation of the matchup. Still think it's winnable...
I'm not an expert myself but the little I played on netplay Ganon vs sheik seems okay. If the sheik stayed grounded and tried like tilts I could like land f smashes or bair while she whiff'd. I probably can't express it well, but his power and range and the way his body morphs can help Ganon make sheik pay because sheik is that perfect weight to get nailed and her range is just short enough for him to out range her. I'm not good with Ganon myself but just some opinions I have.
Tl; dr I'm ruining your thread so don't read this!
Tl; dr I'm ruining your thread so don't read this!
YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
you are a crazy person
Of course I am I main Roy.
Ganon is cool though. Respect to you Ganons he's hard for me to even use right. A good Ganon is deceptively fast and hits like a truck.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
FYI dk is slightly easier than ganon. Def a matchup that's in ganon's favor, though not by all that much. DK's bair gimmicks are easy enough to beat, and they should both be edge guarded to hell
Diosama
Stand User
My friend is a Falcon main with a DK secondary and man, cargo upthrow to upairs really hurt big G
Swagic
Smash Journeyman
DI out. It's possible at almost all percents. Sometimes, you can even jump out.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
That uair is still nasty. Sometimes you definitely need SDI to prevent him from following up
Diosama
Stand User
You can jump out after 2 at low %. If he grabs you after, you'll usually only be hit by 1, unless he full hops and then djs for another one.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Very nice set. The only thing I would say you really have to work on is making sure to wd oos and work on your finishers vs Fox, you seem to hesitate whenever Fox would illusion onto the stage. Jab/sh uair that ****. lol I like the usage of platforms as well, but you have to be cognisant of where Fox is, zone him in with fair and be sure it makes contact with fox, you'll be safe if you mash out jab but beware of the u-smash oos, which can be answered with a bair oos or up-b oos. Your shield drops are looking crisp but try to incorporate some NIL into the fray; it'll make your Ganon much faster off the platforms. Also, try to grab more since the followups on the spacies afterwards are usually guaranteed. You murdered that Marth tho; so beating that pretty boy's face in is a great accomplishment in itself.
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For chaingrabbing Sheik, once she's at mid percent it's good to pummel at least once per throw. That increases the percent damage you inflict per regrab and gives a rhythm to the throwing. That rhythm helps me time my regrabs, which is important for the chaingrab on Sheik.
Man, that near-comeback in game two versus the Fox was inspiring. I need to learn from your neutral game vs Fox.
Netplay isn't a good indicator of matchups. Ganon does have tools versus Sheik, some of which you point out, but Sheik has better and stronger tools to use versus Ganon. For example:
https://vods.co/v/nvnzxd?position=34&list=Xu_r8D2XWh9TWv4lr4kRJgKgISdE0vydcld10AdpX3o
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Diosama
Stand User
Pummel once per 35% is a good rule
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Ty for the advice guys. Reason I don't pummel is some sheiks, like this guy, are good at mashing. Although technically I could pummel once and buffer dthrow, if I'm even a little off, they'll get out. My CG game was pretty ****ty that set, but I am capable of 0 deathing with it now, so it'll just get more consistent from here.
Are you talking about using fair off platforms, or in general? And what did you mean by mash out jab?